Flaming People

February 29, 2004

OK, I'm fairly new around here but I have noticed that some of those who post here insist in flaming those who post subjects which have been discussed previously. Now while I understand that some of the 'old hands' may have seen these everything discussed many times newbies will not have.

Further to this I believe that people will post here in the hope that they might enter into some kind of mature discusion, even on a topic that has been discussed before. Alternatively, they may hope to get some advice based on the most current opinions.

The following is taken from the Cambridge dictionary:

Forum: a place on the Internet where people can leave messages or discuss particular subjects with other people at the same time:

Discussion forums are a way of contacting people with similar interests from all over the world.

Forums are not search engines. Take the 'search don't post' system to its logical conclusion no one would ever post here but merely google. The fact that thought process develop and others may come up with interesting and varied points of view must really stick in the throat of flamers.

And perhaps worst of all, a poster, once flamed, who might otherwise have added to the value of the site, may never return. Or be to afraid/embarrassed to post a subject of great interest to all Cachers

Rant Over Opinions Please

February 29, 2004

Bravo! Bravo!

1.3k · February 29, 2004

A forum is a medium for conversation. Part of this medium is an easily accessed archive of previous discussions, many of which can be brought back and restarted with just a click or two of a button and the "interesting and varied points of view" could all be contained within a single thread for future visitors. If anyone is going to try to use this medium effectively they need to learn how to use it and since the vast majority of online forums include a search feature, they should know how to use it.

Take the 'post don't search' system to its logical conclusion and many people would leave due to immense drop in the signal-to-noise ratio. People who refuse to look for the FAQ or who think of the other posters as a replacement for google are abusing the system and the goodwill of the people here.

Can it be suggested in a more gentle manner that people learn to use the medium properly and not treat other people as free labor to look up things that they ought to look up themselves? Yes. But if flaming people too lazy to read a faq or too stupid to learn how to use a medium effectively drives them off, who am I to think I'd even miss those people?

Edited February 29, 2004 by bons

February 29, 2004

Maybe it's because I've spent time in the unmoderated forums in usenet, but most of what I've seen here, I wouldn't really call flaming. I agree that some replies could have been handled a bit more diplomatically then they were, but all in all they weren't that extreme.

I do agree that some folks come in without a lot of experience in the forums and we should help them. Sometimes, though, pointing them to a search feature is more helpful than regenerating a thread that has been beat to death.

3k · February 29, 2004

Flaming People, Who were stupid enough not to search

OK, I'm fairly new around here but I have noticed that some of those who post here insist in flaming those who post subjects which have been discussed previously.

Since you're new around here, you might not have noticed that in YOUR title and subject line of this thread that you referred to the behavior of those who don't use the search feature as "stupid." You then had the audacity to complain about the behavior of those who suggest people should use the search feature.

Nothing incongruous in that at all.

February 29, 2004

I agree that users could re-start threads, but that was not my initial point. harleycache has hit it on the head, a gentle prod in the correct direction is what we need. Teach people how to use these pages and others like it, to their greatest advatage.

Perhaps then, they wont fall foul of the unmoderated sites and avoid the real flaming they'd get there.

My first post was a little harsh in that overall this is probably the most mature site I have used and the level of flaming is very low and happens infrequently. It does, however, miff me when I see it. Smacks of the school bully to me.

February 29, 2004

BassoonPilot,

You are of course right . Having read it again I have indeed been a little more stupid than those I aimed my post at.

Of course I don't really think that they are stupid. Maybe a little impatient with a short fuse at times, but never stupid.

Guess it's me that looks 'stupid' now

February 29, 2004

My commendations and appreciation to all who take the time to respond in a sensible and mature manner to posts such as this. All too many times I have read a post from someone relatively new, only to get quickly disgusted by the overbearingly righteous replies from some of the old hands. And newer hands as well.

"Search the topics!" Next time you feel like typing this, how about just typing out a quick two sentence response!

I fear that a lot of people just hop on the "search the topics" bandwagon because it makes them sound really knowledgable and long-suffering, like "I've answered this question soooo many times before, why won't everyone just 'search the topics' for everything I've ever said? Then, they could learn from my vast experience!"

So, here's my tip: When someone asks a question in the forums that you think you've answered quite enough, MOVE ON!!! Don't feel like you have to post your usual snide reply. (Chances are, you're just turning someone off anyway.)

My .02 cents.

3k · February 29, 2004

Next time you feel like typing this, how about just typing out a quick two sentence response!

Many of these topics have been discussed at great length in literally DOZENS of threads. Most of those "two sentence responses" point to earlier threads that the information seeker could have just as easily discovered on his own by using the search feature. It is my opinion that a "quick, two sentence response" would do no justice to a topic that had been previously discussed at great length.

So, here's my tip: When someone asks a question in the forums that you think you've answered quite enough, MOVE ON!!!

When we read through the myriad redundant threads that deal with the same, or closely related themes, it is hard not to notice how often the same recommendations or solutions were finally arrived at by different people ... often separated by months (or even years.) It is my opinion that "reinventing the wheel" every time a question comes up impedes progress ... we just end up going around the same circle over and over again.

Perhaps the "search" button should be made two or three times as large as it is, and should be placed prominently in the center of the toolbar.

Or perhaps another use for the always popular "warning meters" could be implemented: Make it so that when someone wants to initiate a new thread, a popup screen asks if the person had searched for similar active threads. ("Active" meaning "not locked.") The first redundant thread created would be a "free pass," but the second and each subsequent redundant thread created by an individual would raise the "warning level" by (an additional) 10%. Yes, I offer that last suggestion jokingly, but it would no doubt prove effective.

Edited February 29, 2004 by BassoonPilot

February 29, 2004

"Search the topics!" Next time you feel like typing this, how about just typing out a quick two sentence response!

Yeah I have to agree with that. Give the person a quick reply, then if someone feels it absolutely needed they could say something like, "but you could get even more information from this thread =link here= where a similar matter was discussed a while ago." Or something equally docile. The old adage, If you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything, is a pretty good one. The people who actually look up the old topics are being helpful, just sometimes I think a little more tact is required. Not everyone has been using the internet for 10 years or more. They don't know the Forum or IRC Chat ettiquette that old timers practice, and in their new found exuberance about the sport of Geocaching they show up on the forums asking the "same old thing," too bad more folks can't share there excitement and actually answer questions rather than replying "use the search function." The people who do this, of course, are only a small small percentage of the folks who frequent these forums. Most cachers are friendly and eager to help, but one or two bad apples ruin the bushel.

February 29, 2004

This has all been discussed before. Please use the search feature.

February 29, 2004

I'll jump in on this one. I'm pretty new to this board, but I belong to a bunch to other message boards similar to the format like this one. Sometimes the 'search' feature doesn't always produce good results. The Yahoo message board search feature is a joke. I've been guilty before of asking questions that were previously asked a week or two before without searching and have been 'reminded' of the search function. But I don't recall ever being flamed. Anyways, what the heck am I doing on the computer? It's freaking 45 degrees in Minneapolis- I'm going caching!

February 29, 2004

It's freaking 45 degrees in Minneapolis- I'm going caching!

Brrrrrrrrr!

70 on the Space Coast and getting warmer.

February 29, 2004

It seems to me that those flaming are expressing repressed aggression. Since they can't yell at their in-laws when at a family function for discussing the same topics over and over and over again, they yell here. Just a guess on my part, but those of you laughing right now know what I'm talking about

1.3k · February 29, 2004

Give the person a quick reply, then if someone feels it absolutely needed they could say something like, "but you could get even more information from this thread =link here= where a similar matter was discussed a while ago."

In short, when someone apparently doesn't know there's a search feature, don't tell them.

They don't know the Forum or IRC Chat ettiquette that old timers practice.

And it sounds like you're not for teaching them the way the "old timers" usually learned if they weren't fast enough to figure it out on their own.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of being asked to treat grown adults like children. When I was a child I wanted nothing more than to be treated like an adult and to have the responsibilties of an adult. Now, as an adult, I see way too many people who want to be treated like children, have the resposibility of children, and to have their hands held like they were children. I'm sorry, but I find it pathetic.

If you're an adult act like one and deal with what life gives you. If you're a child, consider this a training ground for becoming an adult because the real world is a heck of a lot more stressful than being flamed in a forum or finding a swiss army knife in a cache.

February 29, 2004

Geeez!

Who derived all these unwritten forum rules, and why do people think anyone has to follow them? If GC.com contacted me about forum behavior, thats one thing, but till then, these are forums, I'll say/ask whatever i want. Don't waste your time on the bag of perceptual, unwritten geo forum rules. Its more fun without them, and alot easier to cache without that bag!

9.2k · February 29, 2004

You're right. Forums are not search engines. They are repositories of knowledge. When you attach a search engine to that repository, you have something very powerful, and you're foolish if you don't make use of it. Why? Because you can get an answer to your question (and believe me, there are very few original questions asked here) almost immediately, rather than waiting around for someone to respond to your question.

The alternative, of course, is that no one uses the search engine, and we're all cursed with a never-ending stream of "how do I find out who's watching my cache"; "can I use my GPS on an airplane"; "what does TPTB, FTF, D/T, TNLN etc. mean"; "why do I have these lines on my Vista screen"; etc.

Of course, that's pretty much what we have now, so maybe we are cursed.

9.5k · February 29, 2004

OK, I'm fairly new around here but I have noticed that some of those who post here insist in flaming those who post subjects which have been discussed previously. Now while I understand that some of the 'old hands' may have seen these everything discussed many times newbies will not have.

Further to this I believe that people will post here in the hope that they might enter into some kind of mature discusion, even on a topic that has been discussed before. Alternatively, they may hope to get some advice based on the most current opinions.

I took a lot of time to teach my daughter how to handle her problems on a computer including using the help and search features on and off the Internet. She continued to come and ask me the same questions over and over though and I finally had enough and asked her why she kept asking me the questions instead of using the tools she had at her fingertips and has learned how to use.

Her answer? It was easier to come and ask me for the answer rather than look it up herself.

Being that most users in these forums are educated enough to learn how to use a GPS receiver, they still find it easier to ask the question for an instant gratification answer rather than take the time to do the SEARCH themselves for that same answer already located in these forums.

The search feature in this forum is easy and rich with features in of itself. Instead of being lazy and risking being flamed for an instant gratification answer, do the grass roots work first and use the search feature already at hand.

The following is taken from the Cambridge dictionary:

Forum: a place on the Internet where people can leave messages or discuss particular subjects with other people at the same time:

Discussion forums are a way of contacting people with similar interests from all over the world.

Forums are not search engines. Take the 'search don't post' system to its logical conclusion no one would ever post here but merely google. The fact that thought process develop and others may come up with interesting and varied points of view must really stick in the throat of flamers.

Forums have evolved and have become very efficient search engines of their own database. Forums are also a place to offer dissent in the form of disagreements. Not all disagreements and discussion are going to be nicey nicey. If you can't stand even the moderate heat of a discussion, you shouldn't become involved in it.

And perhaps worst of all, a poster, once flamed, who might otherwise have added to the value of the site, may never return. Or be to afraid/embarrassed to post a subject of great interest to all Cachers

Rant Over Opinions Please

I dare you to name any real time discussion that doesn't have the potential of having some emotional response. That in and of itself is considered a flame... and yet, folks seem to survive that pretty well. Why should it be any different here?

Being flamed is a learning process by itself. A newbie learns what not to do in a forum when being flamed but they also learn what they can do at the same time. If they're too sensitive, then they also have real life issues to deal with and I won't accept the responisibility to coddled them here.

This particular forum is moderated for respect for each other. But that requirement for respect doesn't mean I can't flame so long as I keep it moderate so that the newbie understands my impatience with a question that would have been easily handled with the search feature. Particularly in times where a similar thread would be on the same page below the new one they just created.

9.5k · February 29, 2004

It seems to me that those flaming are expressing repressed aggression. Since they can't yell at their in-laws when at a family function for discussing the same topics over and over and over again, they yell here. Just a guess on my part, but those of you laughing right now know what I'm talking about

Bah. That's armchair psychology that works only with a very small group of people.

My in-laws and family would disagree with you. I have no problem expressing my opinion to them.

As for anybody here if they have a problem expressing their opinioin in real life? I haven't seen that with the folks I've met so far.

38.2k · February 29, 2004

I've been around these forums a lot and I rarely see the behavior your're talking about. Yes, people will point to a previous thread that discussed the issue, but this isn't flaming, unless you have very thin skin. Sometimes people will be a bit curt with their response, but it's not often someone is raked over the coals (e.g. "Hey moron, try using the search")" for asking a question. Most of the time they are simply pointing out that the topic has been thoroughly discussed here and here and I don't consider this to be flaming.

Personally I don't think I've flamed anybody for asking a question. Yes, I may have a made a terse remark and provided a link, but that's it. That's because I don't think anybody deserves to be flamed for asking a simple question. Unless its about using a GPS on an airplane.....then tar and feather the sucker!!!!!!

Edited February 29, 2004 by briansnat

1.3k · February 29, 2004

I've noticed I have the habit of just responding to the question like I've never heard it before. I suppose I could help them out and tell them to use the search button, but enough people do that already.

2.3k · February 29, 2004

See this thread that I started in another forum. It may help to resolve part of the problem (such as it is).

February 29, 2004

Unless its about using a GPS on an airplane.....then tar and feather the sucker!!!!!!

But, would I be able to use my GPSr in an airplane?

2.7k · February 29, 2004

Lets just close down the "real time" posts and leave the search features open. There really isn't anything new to discuss here.

Oh, and while we're at it, let's close the patent office too.

February 29, 2004

if flaming people too lazy to read a faq or too stupid to learn how to use a medium effectively drives them off, who am I to think I'd even miss those people?

Try searching for a few things around here yourself, sometimes you get so much info it could take hours to dig through to get a simple answer to a simple question. Other times the previous post may not be listed how the new poster is searching; for instance do a search for Geo-coins,or geocoins they both result in different results,and not all the posts are returned. So perhaps you should be a little more understanding of newbies instead of thinking you're too good tohelp someone else out with info you have readily available! I don't mind sharing my knowledge,although not vast, as I am less than a year here myself. We are supposed to be a community of like minded individuals not stingy spoiled brats!!

4.7k · March 1, 2004

i always search first. when i come up empty after a reasonable time, i ask. it's fine with me to have someone refer me to the appropriate link. heck, i was LOOKING for the link anyway.

just please don't simply tell me to search.

by the way, i also read manuals. i often find that they are writen for people who do not need them, and therefore are of little help to those who do not understand the fundamental principles.

give me a fingering chart for, say the bassoon, and i'm toasty with that. give me a manual for a simple item that runs on batteries and chances are that i become very stupid.

people in the forums have most of the time been lovely and gracious and helpful. or at least SOMEBODY responds helpfully, so i just ignore the unhelpful souls who don't offer anything.

conversely, i check the newbie threads a couple of times daily to see if there's anything i can be helpful about. since my expertise is limited, i'm not of much help. and where i COULD help, someone usually beats me to it. but the thing is i'm willing to do what i can.

3.9k · March 1, 2004

One thing for the oldtimers to keep in mind, is that these forums are joined by new members everyday. They may ask questions that we have seen a dozen times over the past few years, but the reponses are fresh from when we first saw them and with so many new people, there a lot of different slants on the issue.

Also, and this is the most important part...people use the forums in a way of introducing them selves. They do it to test the waters to see how welcomed they are. There are no stupid questions...only stupid answers. There are people out there who play this game and have very little knowledge of computers or how to do a search. Besides....if you do a search...you don't get to interact with your fellow cachers.

El Diablo

2.4k · March 1, 2004

I've never seen any actual flaming here. Certainly some posters are told that a search will give them the information they want, but IMO you have to be really thin-skinned to think that's flaming.

I admit that sometimes I just give a cursory answer and say that a search will provide more complete information. Sometimes I don't have a lot of time to spare reading the forums, and I don't consider it my responsibility to search out all the pertinent threads and provide pointers to them. If I have the time and feel the inclination, I might, but I won't stay up nights hounded by guilt if I don't. I never intentionally flame anyone, or even provide an impolite answer, but I might provide a rather short answer because of time constraints. I do have a life outside geocaching, and my wife considers providing a constant income to be a priority.

March 1, 2004

I once started a post that had been previously discussed, and I heard from many people I didn't want to. It seems they had to post on my thread just to tell me how stupid I was because this subject had been talked about before. WHY DID THEY BOTHER TO RESPOND...?????

I am an old timer at this sport of Geocaching, but new at the discussion board. I didn't know there was a search function. I had not posted nearly as many times as those who responded. Why can't they just stay out of it, or just be polite?

1.8k · March 1, 2004

I once started a post that had been previously discussed, and I heard from many people I didn't want to. It seems they had to post on my thread just to tell me how stupid I was because this subject had been talked about before. WHY DID THEY BOTHER TO RESPOND...?????

I am an old timer at this sport of Geocaching, but new at the discussion board. I didn't know there was a search function. I had not posted nearly as many times as those who responded. Why can't they just stay out of it, or just be polite?

Uh huh, you again. Thought I told you to beat it and don't come back until you have every post in this forum memorized. Look, if you get flamed by someone in this forum then FLAME THEM BACK. Otherwise ignore them, for me, I kinda like to see that there are people out there that are bigger a@@holes than I'll ever be. But then again I could be very shortsighted.

edit: clarity

Edited March 1, 2004 by clearpath

March 1, 2004

I searched for a link once. I knew who provided it. It took reading through 9 pages before I found it. I might have found it Quicker if I had asked in the forums and taken a chance on being told to doa search.

I learned how to do a search on my own and often help newbies to remember to reset the date for looking back earlier than 30 days or a search may turn up nothing.

March 1, 2004

A lot of people have thrown in here with, "I don't perceive what I do here as flaming." Let me answer with this: Your perception is unique! However you might think that EVERYONE feels and sees as you do, there is an overwhelming chance that you do not speak for everyone!!!

I believe that I have mentioned my occupation before, if you haven't had the opportunity to hear my story, then here's the deal: I work as a trainer for a major manufacturer of polyethylene packaging. I train newly hired employees on "everything" from where the bathrooms are, to safety training, to functional instruction and everything that they need to know to succeed in our facility. The training period that I oversee lasts two weeks.

So; to shorten the story up, I live by a cycle of answering the SAME QUESTIONS every two weeks! Maybe it has hardened me to the repetitive nature of this cycle, but the bottom line is that I have a lot more patience with things like this.

Perhaps TPTB should start a newbie forum, moderated by yours truly, which would be restricted to folks that hadn't yet achieved 10-15 posts. Or some other criteria. Heck who knows!

All I'm saying is, "Don't be a jerk IF another opportunity presents itself."

9.5k · March 1, 2004

A lot of people have thrown in here with, "I don't perceive what I do here as flaming." Let me answer with this: Your perception is unique! However you might think that EVERYONE feels and sees as you do, there is an overwhelming chance that you do not speak for everyone!!!
I believe that I have mentioned my occupation before, if you haven't had the opportunity to hear my story, then here's the deal: I work as a trainer for a major manufacturer of polyethylene packaging. I train newly hired employees on "everything" from where the bathrooms are, to safety training, to functional instruction and everything that they need to know to succeed in our facility. The training period that I oversee lasts two weeks.

So; to shorten the story up, I live by a cycle of answering the SAME QUESTIONS every two weeks! Maybe it has hardened me to the repetitive nature of this cycle, but the bottom line is that I have a lot more patience with things like this.

Perhaps TPTB should start a newbie forum, moderated by yours truly, which would be restricted to folks that hadn't yet achieved 10-15 posts. Or some other criteria. Heck who knows!

All I'm saying is, "Don't be a jerk IF another opportunity presents itself."

You will find that newbie forum here.

Knock yourself out!

==Edited for clarity==

Edited March 1, 2004 by TotemLake

1.3k · March 1, 2004

if flaming people too lazy to read a faq or too stupid to learn how to use a medium effectively drives them off, who am I to think I'd even miss those people?

Try searching for a few things around here yourself, sometimes you get so much info it could take hours to dig through to get a simple answer to a simple question.

I do. When I see a question that interests me I look it up and markwell it for the person who asks it. I don't seem to have the problems you have. Must be you.

So perhaps you should be a little more understanding of newbies instead of thinking you're too good tohelp someone else out with info you have readily available!

I do try to help out newbies. It's whining people who won't lift a finger to help themselves that I could care less about.

We are supposed to be a community of like minded individuals not stingy spoiled brats!!

Then quit acting like one. Use the tools the site provides. Because if you're expecting me to treat someone with respect while they're treating me like their servant and wanting me to look up things for them then you're dreaming.

3.9k · March 1, 2004

You are kinda hard there Bons. Like I pointed out before, most people are just looking to join the community. Let's welcome them rather than ridicule them for not using the search tool.

El Diablo

1.3k · March 1, 2004

You are kinda hard there Bons.

It's not like I'm gonna be nice to someone who uses the term "thinking you're too good tohelp someone else". People who insult you while telling you to be nice deserve every kick in the nuts they get.

Part of what bothers me about this is that the people who refuse to search are often being rude in the first place. I agree, they may be new to the internet and this, somehow, is their first experience with online forums, and they may have missed the magnifying glass and the word "search", but it seems that it's just as likely (if not more) that they're simply taking advantage of the kindness of strangers and expecting them to do the work for them.

And I'm sorry, but that's rude.

Edited March 1, 2004 by bons

March 1, 2004

bons Posted: Feb 29 2004, 08:46 PM

Then quit acting like one. Use the tools the site provides. Because if you're expecting me to treat someone with respect while they're treating me like their servant and wanting me to look up things for them then you're dreaming.

SO........... are you saying these people are PMing you or singling you out and asking you to look things up for them or do you just feel compelled to respond to EVERY thread on the forums??

Even one of your more active posters can appear to be a little "Wet" behind the ears and post a question many of you would see as common knowledge. The difference between him and a newbie is that he knows where such questions should be posted and knows fully well what the response will be if he dared post in the wrong sub-forum. A newbie MAY NOT!!

3.1k · March 1, 2004

Personally I feel a user that flames a newbie for asking an old question has serious issues. Congratualtions on your skill with the search machine.

But maybe an old question may bring about new responses. Even some responses that are polite and friendly instead of elitist.

1.3k · March 1, 2004

SO........... are you saying these people are PMing you or singling you out and asking you to look things up for them or do you just feel compelled to respond to EVERY thread on the forums??

Even one of your more active posters can appear to be a little "Wet" behind the ears and post a question many of you would see as common knowledge. The difference between him and a newbie is that he knows where such questions should be posted and knows fully well what the response will be if he dared post in the wrong sub-forum. A newbie MAY NOT!!

Then the newbie needs to learn. And considering the person who started this thread called refers to them as being stupid and half the people suggesting that we be nice to them have been a lot ruder than those people pointing out how to use the search function, I don't see a lot of hope for improvement on how it's done.

Personally, I suggest you take the job and show us, with all your compassion, how it should be done, because your latest post doesn't give me a hint that you can be any nicer or more tactful than anyone else here.

Edited March 1, 2004 by bons

March 1, 2004

Some people see these forums as an information tool. Some people see these forums as a community. If you are coming here for information, the search tool is obviously the way to go. A community however is about relationship. My wife has heard some of my jokes many, many times. i could simply put all of my jokes in a database and tell her to look them up if she wants to hear them again. But i tell them to her sometimes repeatedly because it develops relationship. She gets to roll her eyes and laughs.

Discussion is sometimes about resolution. More often its just about sharing some time together, agreeing or disagreeing but still sharing an interchange, or a cigar, or some pie. This may sound sappy but i think more people want to know that they're not alone than there are people who want to know why you shouldn't put strichnine in caches.

Bring on the Flame!

3.1k · March 1, 2004

So Bons you say a newbie needs to learn? Do you suggest flaming them is a good teaching technique?

1.3k · March 1, 2004

This may sound sappy but i think more people want to know that they're not alone than there are people who want to know why you shouldn't put strichnine in caches.

There goes my latest idea for a unique sig item.

1.3k · March 1, 2004

So Bons you say a newbie needs to learn? Do you suggest flaming them is a good teaching technique?

I don't know. So far it seems to. Geo-Explorer and programmer64 seem to think it's the correct way for them to change someone else's behavior but they don't seem to think anyone else should be allowed to behave that way.

Personally, I try to be nice, but when a bunch of rude people try to force niceness down my throat the gag reflex tends to result in a heck of a lot of bile.

As far as flaming here goes, if the flaming gets out of hand, it's a moderator's job to decide that and deal with it. That's why they have the warn button. All the other people who think they're moderators and want to tell everyone else what to say and when they can say it and are willing to be insulting in the process are no different that the person who flames someone for not using the search engine.

If you can tell the difference between the two groups of people, I'd appreciate you explaining it to me.

Edited March 1, 2004 by bons

3.1k · March 1, 2004

Personally, I try to be nice, but when a bunch of rude people try to force niceness down my throat the gag reflex tends to resort in a heck of a lot of bile.

As far as flaming here goes, if the flaming gets out of hand, it's a moderator's job to decide that and deal with it. That's why they have the warn button. All the other people who think they're moderators and want to tell everyone else what to say and when they can say it and are willing to be insulting in the process are no different that the person who flames someone for not using the search engine.

If you can tell the difference between the two groups of people, I'd appreciate you explaining it to me.

Honestly I don't find as much fault with a group of people who are trying to insist someone else be polite as much as I find fault with a flamer.

There are times when an old question will bring new responses, so why not allow the old question without getting all upset? I know I've changed my mind on certain issues, I'm certain others have too.

1.3k · March 1, 2004

But the flamer is trying to insist the person be polite and do the work up front that's expected of them. They're both doing the same thing: Flaming someone who is displaying a behavior that's perceived as rude by the flamer.

What's the difference?

1.8k · March 1, 2004

My .02 cents worth on the subject....why did'nt anyone "search" this:

WWF GC.com

3.3k · March 1, 2004

I am a newbie and the victim of a "flame". Thing is, I did use the search field but I used it improperly (I selected the wrong "search where" option.) I didn't bother responding but I did feel it was rude.

I agree with those that stated why would the "flamer" even bother to write anthing if he/her have seen it before. (Just move on.) Unless you post the link to the previous topic, you are going to come across as being snobby. It seems as if the "flamer" is punishing the writer for making him/her read the thread on a repeating topic.

1.5k · March 1, 2004

I too try to help out once in awhile by providing answers, if the mood strikes me right. But I do think that even as a forum newbie, the little magnifying glass and accompaning word 'search' in the upper right hand corner are what should be used before posting the question. If you can't find what you're looking for on google, do you call the corporate office to ask why?

Too often these days, the desire to be empowered goes to the wayside in favor of delegating to others because it's easier. People call me at work all the time asking/demanding/expecting to have an officer sent to change their tire, or bring them gas when they run out. Um, wtf? It's always been my longstanding belief that anyone with a flat should change it themselves (physical limitations being an exception), or be more responsible with keeping track of their fuel issues. The same applies to the forums (to an extent). If the Submit Reply button can be found, or even the link to a forum category, the same can be said about the Search feature. If, at that point the answer isn't found, then take it to the forums as a new topic. As a pseudo firesuit against flaming, state in the post that you searched but were unsuccessful.

March 1, 2004

I do. When I see a question that interests me I look it up and markwell it for the person who asks it. I don't seem to have the problems you have. Must be you.

Might very well be. I've noticed in my internet life that not everyone has the instinct for selecting appropriate search terms. I had a discussion about Google last week with a friend. I tend to get the answers I need in the first page, and was surprised when my friend said she'd all but given up on Google because she "could never find anything." I've watched her search since then, and she tends to choose different terms than I do. And she's a web developer, not some Internet newbie.

Skill? Talent? Instinct? I don't know. But not everyone seems to be able to generate good, responsive queries.

March 1, 2004

Yat again geocache proves to be a gown up sight with good arguments on both sides.

Bons, I accepted that I was wrong to use the word 'stupid' in the titile a soon as the hypocrasy of it was pointed out to me. Therefore, to use it in your argument is a little off side. Also my issue is not with people being given a hard time for a a particular point of view. Far from it, people should have their belief sytems challenged regularly. It's the only way we really grow IMO. However, I do like the fact that you have stuck to your guns throughout and have been prepared to argue your case. Quite to my disbelief I find myself agreeing with much of what you say. But I believe that your forthright manner may be construed by some as confrontational.

I'm not asking folks to be all prissy and pussy foot around the boards. I like a good old stand up argument/discussion. All I am asking is that evryone show tolerance to newbies allow, them to become hooked on caching and this site. Then you can really go to town and give them a proper royal roasting and hopefully you'll receive one in return

Flaming People

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