E911 - Position Recording After Call???

[AJK]

Just after leaving the parking for a cache I heard the unmistakable sound of bending metal - car crash, no one hurt, but plenty of damage and blocking of road. After I'd dialled 911 to call police, my phone (LG) would only allow me to talk to 911 again or Verizon.

 

I was wondering if the phone was "locked down", so that it could continously transmit a GPS signal via the E911 system. Having spoke to a customer rep, she didn't know, but suggested a battery removal, which worked.

 

Anyone know about this??

[+Gorak]

Sounds like a bug in the phone software. You might want to go back to your vendor to see if their is a newer firmware revision that they can flash into your phone.

 

______________

Gorak

[+geckoee]

My phone does the same thing. It's a Sprint Keocera with no GPS. Tried to power it down to no avail. [Thing wouldn't even turn off!] Had to take the battery out.

I think it is something new so that They can locate you by your phones signal strength measured at different stations.

 

<rant >

The way I see it, when cell phones became popular, 911 got calls from phones without addresses associated to them, so they didn't know where to dispatch the emergency squad to. So they implement a tracking system; which I think was ridiculous. If the caller didn't have a cell phone they wouldn’t have been able to call 911! By the time the one in need finishes running around franticly knocking on doors I'm sure this citizen could have given the 911 operator there location pretty accurately. Silly silly. I don’t want the Man taking over my cell phone any more! No need I tell you! No need! I'm running back into the woods now.</needless rant>

Edited February 25, 2004 by geckoee

[AJK]

The way that I understand it works is that there is a GPS receiver in the phone. The system knows your general whereabouts from the cell towers (power, triangulation, signal direction???) and the GPSr can help pinpoint you even better. I believe that it only needs a lock on one or so satellites, as that gives enough info combined with the cell tower info.

 

In a way I suppose it makes sense - cell phone won't switch off if buttons are damaged, will transmit e911 signal even if it tries to call elsewhere, again because of damage. If this is the case, I wish that it was a documented feature - if I call 911, there could well be others that need calling as well.

[+geckoee]

<snip>

- if I call 911, there could well be others that need calling as well.

Exactly.

 

On my way to visit my GF (aka SWMBO) there is a pretty nasty section of road that I don't get digital coverage on. Before I get on that road I give a ring to the destination party to say if I'm not there in two hours call the police. Well I witnessed some one else drive off a cliff, so I called 911. Then I was going to call the GF to say that I would be late. But the cell phone is restricted to emergency calls! Some one else had stopped at the site and was helping the person in the car. I asked if everything was okay, and they both said yes, so I drove off. Couldn't let the GF think I was the one that drove off the road.

[+st_richardson]

Was the phone in locked mode before you called? (All phones locked or even unactivated can dial 911.)

 

I don't recall my LG Verizon phone locking up the last time I called 911 but it's been a while since I called 911. It did indicate it was in emergency mode, however.

 

Is there anyone out there that really understands how the phone's "GPS mode works"? My phone has 2 location modes: 911 & always. Why would one want to chose the always mode? If I'm in an always mode, is there any way I can access the location information?

[AJK]

Always mode I believe will be used to provide "services" - i.e. where's the nearest chinese restaurant based on my current location.

 

I have not heard of anyone being able to discover their location information - maybe software in the cell towers do this processing. It would be good if you could have a wap service that knows where you are - instant readout of nearest caches.

 

The phone was not in emergency mode before the 911 call (I had paid my bill... )

[+st_richardson]

Just after leaving the parking for a cache I heard the unmistakable sound of bending metal - car crash, no one hurt, but plenty of damage and blocking of road. After I'd dialled 911 to call police, my phone (LG) would only allow me to talk to 911 again or Verizon.

 

I was wondering if the phone was "locked down", so that it could continously transmit a GPS signal via the E911 system. Having spoke to a customer rep, she didn't know, but suggested a battery removal, which worked.

 

Anyone know about this??

I spoke with our Verizon rep and he said he hadn't heard of the problem before. He thought it might be a software problem, also. - Removing power (ie battery in this case) often will force a reset.

 

The rep also said they currently have no applications for the location mode. Setting most likely an LG feature for possible future use. I suggest leaving it in E911 mode and not the always mode.

 

BTW... Which LG phone do you have? I have the 6000 camera phone.

[AJK]

vx4400B

 

Searching the web reveals other people with other phones who have seen the same thing - one person suggested it was even FCC mandated.

[+aka Monkey]

(All phones locked or even unactivated can dial 911.)

Does this mean if I cancel my cell phone service but continue to carry the phone around with me, I can call 911 in an emergency?

[4x4van]

It's not a glitch, or software problem, it's by design. I also have Verizon, and I remember reading something in the manual about the "emergency mode" that the phone goes into when you dial 911. And there is a way to exit the "emergency mode" without removing the battery. I can't remeber any details about it, but I'll try to remember to look at my phone's manual when I get home tonight, and post what I find.

 

BTW, yes, if you have a cell phone, you can call 911 even if you have no cellular service provider active. Any cellphone with a working battery has that ability, by law.

Edited February 26, 2004 by 4x4van

[+Stunod]

From the manual of my Motorola i730:

Making an Emergency Call

Dial 911 to be connected to an emergency response

center. If you are on an active call, you must end it

before calling 911.

When you make an emergency 911 call, the GPS

feature of your phone begins to seek information to

calculate your approximate location. It will take the

GPS feature of your phone some time to

determine your approximate location. Even

where your phone has good access to sufficient

GPS satellite signals and network assist data, it may

take 30 seconds or more to determine the

approximate location. This time will increase where

there is reduced access to satellite signals. When

your approximate location is determined, it is made

available to the appropriate emergency response

center.

In some cases, your local 911 emergency

response center may not be equipped to receive

GPS location information. For this reason, and

because the GPS location information reported is

only approximate or may not be available in your

location (see “IMPORTANT: Things to Keep in

Mind” on page 69), always report your location to

the 911 operator you speak to when making an

emergency call, if able, just as you would when

using a phone without GPS capabilities.

Note: If you are concerned about whether your

local 911 emergency response center is

equipped to receive GPS location

information, contact your local authorities.

In general, if your phone has access to signals from

more GPS satellites, your location will be

determined faster and more accurately than if your

phone has access to signals from fewer GPS

satellites.

If your phone does not have adequate access to

GPS satellites signals, the location of the nearest

cell tower in contact with your phone is automatically

made available to the emergency response center, if

the center has the capability to receive such

information.

There was nothing about this phone locking in an emergency mode, and I'm not planning on placing a 911 call to test it!

Edited February 26, 2004 by Stunod

[GPS2theMAX]

The book for my verizon phone says it will stay in emergency mode for 5 minutes after disconnecting from 911. I have only called 911 once from it and didnt know it would unlock in 5 mins, so I took out the battery as well, but the phone should return to normal after 5 mins.

[+carleenp]

Does this mean if I cancel my cell phone service but continue to carry the phone around with me, I can call 911 in an emergency?

 

Yes. You can also donate old phones which are then refurbished and given out to various organizations that distribute them solely to allow people access to 911. Here there is a container at the phone company to drop old cell phones in.

[+st_richardson]

(All phones locked or even unactivated can dial 911.)

Does this mean if I cancel my cell phone service but continue to carry the phone around with me, I can call 911 in an emergency?

Yes!

 

The catch is they can't call you back if you get disconnected, however.

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

e911 is a service we've been paying for for years, but it largely isn't in place or active for LE personnel to use. I'm staring at my ALI Display right now, and it does NOT give me location information. I have all my PSAP info, but that does me little good in determining where exactly the caller is, providing they give correct information during the call.

 

As for 911 when no service is on the phone, that is correct. It's the exact reason I keep one of my old Verizon phones around, and take with me on some of my hiking cache days. T-Mobile coverage isn't as good, but their plans meet my needs better. Should I get into a bind and have a signal, I use the Verizon phone to call 911. Embarassing thing about that is, depending on where I'm at, it might be my own guys coming to rescue me.

[+road_rascal]

I have Verizon and I have called 911 numerous times for drunken/ wreckless drivers and I never have had my phone lock up on me. This is the first time I have ever heard about this one.

[+st_richardson]

I have Verizon and I have called 911 numerous times for drunken/ wreckless drivers and I never have had my phone lock up on me.  This is the first time I have ever heard about this one.

I too can't remember a "911 lockup" but don't think I've needed to call this year, yet. I usually call about once a month or so to report an accident on the road. I believe Jan 1, 2004 was the magic date that the system had to be active. I don't see how that would change phone performance, however, unless a 911 center can send some sort of lock signal.

[+EScout]

Does anyone know how to pull out coords from a phone, either on the screen, or through the data port? Especially on a phone like the LG VX4400 I recently bought.

The menu only gives an option of: Position on or E911. Phone is supposed to be GPS enabled.

[+Stunod]

Does anyone know how to pull out coords from a phone, either on the screen, or through the data port? Especially on a phone like the LG VX4400 I recently bought.

The menu only gives an option of: Position on or E911. Phone is supposed to be GPS enabled.

I know nothing about your phone model, but mine (Motorola i730) needs a Java app running to display the GPS data.