Catching And Cooking = Danger

February 22, 2004

hello e-one

as a jail officer and deputy sheriff and local cacher i feel the need to tell e-1 the risks of caching in the woods...now keep in mind i still want you to do it but with caution.this is why..........methamphetamine more commonly known as meth.this is a drug used and made by more people every day.the users of this drug are highly paranoid while on this drug expecially during the "cooking time"during this cooking time the makers take there "batch"out into the woods or someplace out of the way so not to be seen also because it is very dangerous.it can explode during the cooking if not cooked correctly also it has very toxic fumes if cooked a certin way.just a few parts per million in the air can kill very quickly.also these makers often times watch over there cookings with guns in hand.some locals here go to state recreational areas in the off season to cook so please if you see glass containers or very large(five gallon or so) containers hidden near a cache site use coution!!!! things to look for.....

1st anything just sitting out not well hidden

2nd anything other than the cache container listed on the site..ie if it says 4X5 dont look in a 5 gallon jug.or anything with clear hoses in it.

3rd strong odors in the air kinda smelling like starter fluid.

piles of trash.....empty pill packaging or draino or camping fluids or table salts.

if you do find any of these things i would leave the area asap.these cooking parties can pop up anywhere and stay for weeks at a time.this is an all year long problem even in the colder climates so please everyone i am not trying to prevent you from having fun out there just letting you know of a real danger out there just as real as hunters in hunting season.really its worse.these people can do strange things when on this drug so please be careful.if you want more info on this drug search the web for meth.. you will get more info than you want i assure you.to see if this is a real problem in your area you can call your local police depertment and they can tell you if its a consearn in your area of the world i know it is bad from tenn. up to mich at least in my area of the world.any other threats peps should be aware of that you know of?????

safe hunting and pease out

Edited February 22, 2004 by eddthejailer

February 22, 2004

So.. No catching cooks while caching?

Seriously though, I think if you did find a "Meth Lab" in the woods, or any other suspicious activity you should note down the coords (make a waypoint) then you can alert your local police. However, I think it's still pretty safe to cache in the woods. People just need to use common sense. Thanks for the warning.

1.4k · February 22, 2004

This is some great advice. Maybe if you could edit it down a bit GC.com could add it to the FAQ's at the top of the getting started forum.

2.7k · February 22, 2004

I know my cache areas are safe, its just too far for those bad boys to lug the junk up the mountain in the middle of winter. And I carry some protection so I'm not all that worried about them anyways.

February 22, 2004

Before I was into geo- caching I was out Backpacking. I was just following a map. I ran into a pot growing patch. There was 3 very well armed persons sitting around a colman stove drinking coffee. I just nodded and got the heck out of there I called the forest service. About 9 months later I went by there It looked like no body waa ever there

February 22, 2004

Aside from being far too long, I find it difficult to understand with all of the misspellings, poor grammar and sentence structure.

I would compare the chances of encountering crazed drug chemists with that of contracting mad cow disease. If I were so paranoid, I'd never leave my house. I appreciate the warning about as much as I believe the story about the guy who woke up in his bathtub with kidneys removed. Yeesh, some people really need a friggin' life.

1.3k · February 22, 2004

For those people worried about finding meth labs on the way to their next cache, may I reccomend "virtual geocaching".

Trust me. Leave walking through your local parks up to the professionals. We know what we're doing. Don't take the risk of destroying fragile ecosystems while battling to the death with drug makers especially if you run the risk of being shot at by hunters while the police explode the ammo box thinking it's a terrorist bomb.

Geocache online. It's got all the adventure with none of the life threatening risks.

2.3k · February 22, 2004

Ok boys, the originator of this thread was attempting to do something nice and voice a concern. Rude comments about spelling or grammar are against forums guidelines. If you have nothing to contribute to this thread or can not post your opposite views in a forum friendly way don't post here. Its real that simple.

Play nice its a big sandbox.

3.5k · February 22, 2004

I've posted these before, so I apologize to the old timers for the redundancy and the repetitiousnesses, not to mention posting the same thing again and again.

These are shots from a meth lab I stumbled across while caching in Central Illinois. The amazing thing was that I wasn't WAY back in the woods, but on the edge of a small park IN a fairly large town. The cache was archived by the owner the next day. He also took the police out to see the area (pretty neat to have it marked as a waypoint, huh?).

Here in Illinois it's a real problem. Just about everyone in any given community can point out the meth labs on their streets. Just about all of us know someone who has taken the drug or who is still on it...chances are it's someone who's still on it.

Thanks to the technological advancements in meth production, your chances of stumbling across a "cooking party" are getting less and less likely. It can now be cooked in a plastic cup sitting in the backseat of a car (while the chef drives around to avoid the cops). Better living through chemistry, I guess.

Does it mean I'm not going to the woods anymore? No, but I am very aware of my surroundings. More often than not what I find are old starter fluid cans and maybe a pill box or two. Usually it's pretty obvious that they've been long gone from the area. Just pay attention, that's all.

As I told one cacher recently, "You can live your life in fear or you can life your life." In Illinois we're aware of the meth cookers while caching, out west it's rattlesnakes, bears and mountain lions. All-in-all, I feel safer.

Bret

4k · February 22, 2004

Good advice, Edd....here are some pics of the remains of a meth lab I found this week while scouting a spot for a cache....the first one is a wide view of what I found....the white stuff on the ground turned out to be matchbooks and cold medicine cartons that the weather had disintegrated into mush....also notice the plastic soda bottle nearby...another common tool in a meth lab.....

This second picture is a close-up of the tubing and a bulb syringe used in the cooking process...on top of the baggie is a lithium battery casing, also a common ingredient in meth labs.....

If you come across anything like this that you think may in any way be suspicious, waypoint the spot, leave the area immediately, and contact law enforcement. DO NOT TRY TO CITO A METH LAB YOURSELF, AS THE CHEMICALS ARE EXTREMELY DANGEROUS AND MUST BE REMOVED BY A HAZMAT TEAM USING SPECIALIZED EQUIPMENT!!!!!

EDIT: ficksted tiepoes two avoyd beeng flaymmed

Edited February 22, 2004 by Sparky-Watts

4k · February 22, 2004

Aside from being far too long, I find it difficult to understand with all of the misspellings, poor grammar and sentence structure.

I would compare the chances of encountering crazed drug chemists with that of contracting mad cow disease. If I were so paranoid, I'd never leave my house. I appreciate the warning about as much as I believe the story about the guy who woke up in his bathtub with kidneys removed. Yeesh, some people really need a friggin' life.

You've obviously got the wrong impression of how common meth is in the US....here in the midwest, it is a very serious, very common thing to have meth cookers stealing ingredients from stores and warehouses, as well as stealing ammonia from farm supply stores and farmers' barns.....this is something that could quite possibly save your life, so I don't think you should be flaming edd for posting it......nuff sed......

February 23, 2004

Ummmm, OK, sorry folks. I guess I went off on a mean rant. I stand corrected.

February 23, 2004

While looking for Dubble Bubble I found a bong wrapped in plastic stashed near the cache site. I had planned to smash it on the way out, but alas my route of egress took me along a different path. I was thinking of posting the coordinates...but thought someone here might just say "hey, free bong." I have my list of suspicious characters that frequent the board. :smile: :mad:

Edited February 23, 2004 by SamLowrey

4.8k · February 23, 2004

Here in Illinois it's a real problem. Just about everyone in any given community can point out the meth labs on their streets. Just about all of us know someone who has taken the drug or who is still on it...chances are it's someone who's still on it.

I was surprised at what a big problem it is in rural Illinois and Indiana when I was visiting there last year. It is somewhat of a problem here, but not as bad and the cookers seem to cook in houses (and occasionally burn one down) more than in the woods. Regardless, it wouldn't deter me from going out caching, I would just keep my eyes opens and be alert (the world needs more lerts!).

Edited February 23, 2004 by carleenp

February 23, 2004

WOW.....what can i say all,i tried to give my fellow cachers a safty tip that i belive to be very real and i get flammed for spelling?...notice a said i was a jailer not an english professor...lol.anyway i would like to thank co-admin and sparky for helping turn this thread around back in the right direction for me.i do have one other thing to say risking getting fired for being to long again,i work and live in small town indiana ok.all nice people around this area.the jail i work at holds 74 people.75 percent of those booked are booked on some kind of meth charges.i get to know alot of these people and they are nice people hooked on a bad drug.i have heard then tell me of there cooking parties first hand.i know this is happining here.maybe not in the adarondaks(dont care if i mispelled it)i hope you dont have this problem in your area.but here its out of control.all i am saying is be careful and as someone said earlier dont cito this stuff call the police if you do anything.again..... pease out

1.8k · February 23, 2004

the jail i work at holds 74 people.75 percent of those booked are booked on some kind of meth charges.

hehehe ... I'm guessing the other 25% are smartalic english professors ...

February 23, 2004

Don't know how bad meth use is in the Midwest (I am from small-city Indiana.) Maybe it is perceived as bad since we don't have the crimes associated with other places and thus concentrate on the meth labs? Looking at united-states-drug-use.com it appears that there are quite a few meth labs being busted in Indiana. On the other hand a different article from the same source says, "... California produces 85 percent of the Nation?s methamphetamine ..." and then comments on the growth of meth labs in the midwest. So who knows? Is it worse here or are we simple less tolerant of it?

Anyway, getting back to geocaching, it is good idea whenever you are out in the woods or fields to keep your eyes open and your common sense intact. If you do run across a meth lab or dope growing amid the corn then just back away and leave it alone.

February 23, 2004

the jail i work at holds 74 people.75 percent of those booked are booked on some kind of meth charges.

hehehe ... I'm guessing the other 25% are smartalic english professors ...

:smile:

February 23, 2004

Thanks for the heads-up, edd.

Living here in not-so-small town Indiana, I understand the prevalence of Meth. I have yet to find any of the "remains" pictured while out caching, but given the helpful advice of you and others, I won't hesitate to beat feet if I come across any. (After I drop a waypoint, that is.)

As to the rest, there are reasonable and concientious people here in the forums, and there are; well,......others.

Don't let the #%@&*$s get you down!

6.5k · February 23, 2004

Hey wait a minute-I'm a cacher who cooks. I even have "plays well with others-food" in my profile page. :smile:

But seriously this is a good warning. Meth has replaced crack as the latest scourge in the losing War on Drugs. Our local paper's front page had an article on another casualty-the kids of cooks who are exposed to this activity at a young and innocent age. :mad:

4k · February 23, 2004

Out 4-wheeling today after a cache trip and found another meth lab...or the remains of it anyway...didn't have my camera with me, so no pics.....it was a bit different than the one I found last week, but still recognizable.......

1.3k · February 24, 2004

While looking for Dubble Bubble I found a bong wrapped in plastic stashed near the cache site.

So, a bong at a cache site called Dubble Bubble. Coincidence? I think not... :smile:

I had planned to smash it on the way out, but alas my route of egress took me along a different path.

Was your different path that you decided not to let it go to waste? :mad:

Remember kids, don't just look out for tweakers in the woods. You can always run into a crackhead or 2 when doing those urban micros. :mad:

Thats crazy about finding remnants of a meth lab. There's a decent amount of meth around here, and talk about labs in the woods around here, but I've never seen one. There's definitely a lot of pot growing in these hills though.

Edited February 24, 2004 by SBPhishy

4.7k · February 24, 2004

goodness, GRACIOUS!! i think that's what i saw that time i saw weird garbage i didn't understand... i am really glad we got the heck outta there (wrong turn).

so let's not be dismissive. let's DO exercise caution. now if i stumble upon stuff like that, i won't blithely saunter around taking pictures.

(added:)

and edd? it's commonly thought to be bad manneres to flame people for spelling and grammar. unless it's a thread ABOUT spelling and/or grammar, in which case you're on your own. flaming people about their grammar kind of suggests that you have no real grasp of the IDEAS presented and have to resort to criticism of the presentation.

in my youth i flamed somebody for grammar as if it negated their opinion and i was promptly put in my place, and rightly so. it's a lesson in manners i never forgot.

Edited February 24, 2004 by flask

February 24, 2004

Eventhough I always try to be aware of my surroundings while caching, mountain biking or hiking. This is a new risk that I wasn't aware of(not even really sure if this is a big problem in my area)...so thank you for posting this warning and thanks to those that had posted some pics. I believe the only nervous encounter I had...was coming across some poachers. I calmly passed by as if I never saw them and once I was out of their view....I got the $%&@ out of there!

February 24, 2004

While looking for Dubble Bubble I found a bong wrapped in plastic stashed near the cache site. I had planned to smash it on the way out, but alas my route of egress took me along a different path ...

I have a cache in the same park as Dubble Bubble, and we've noticed that homeless encampments pop up in there on a regular basis. Maybe it's actually a meth lab sleepover ... Neither cache is within 300 feet of the camp area, but I'll have to keep a closer eye on it.

We have lots of problems with meth here, too. A policeman who is also a cacher found a stash of meth this week in an archived cache here (it was apparently "lost" about a year ago and archived, but some druggie was using it for his stash. He got caught! ).

OK, so look out for suspicious stuff, AND up your difficulty for the hide so the druggies can't use it for their stash!

Happy Trails!

February 24, 2004

I have a cache in the same park as Dubble Bubble, and we've noticed that homeless encampments pop up in there on a regular basis. Maybe it's actually a meth lab sleepover ... Neither cache is within 300 feet of the camp area, but I'll have to keep a closer eye on it.

We have lots of problems with meth here, too. A policeman who is also a cacher found a stash of meth this week in an archived cache here (it was apparently "lost" about a year ago and archived, but some druggie was using it for his stash. He got caught! ).

OK, so look out for suspicious stuff, AND up your difficulty for the hide so the druggies can't use it for their stash!

Happy Trails!

From the very start I always feared that some authority watching me might think I'm looking for some stash I planted earlier or something.

February 24, 2004

So, a bong at a cache site called Dubble Bubble. Coincidence? I think not...

Was your different path that you decided not to let it go to waste?

Good stuff. But seriously, when I first saw it, I thought it was a vase. It was actually kinda pretty - had that swirly, carnival glass look to it.

Don't get the connection between the name, though. Fill me in, I'm pretty naive on the drug scene.

February 24, 2004

Hmmm, and to think, when I first saw this thread Ithought it was going to give good recipies and cooking tips after a long day of caching. I had bacon and eggs on the brain.

22k · February 24, 2004

Yep, it's a problem here in Eastern Iowa. We have someone who likes to dump their used lab on someone's farm, next to those really big round hay bales, and set both on fire.(that and plus we had that mailbox bomber come through here a couple years ago).

We are extremely vigilant in my area. None of us are hiding under the covers.

Edited February 24, 2004 by TeamX40

1.3k · February 24, 2004

It's just funny to have the name "bubble" at all related to a bong. There are many bong designs that have a bottom chamber for water, and than a chamber above that one for the smoke to go into. They are often described as having a "double bubble". Also, there are little "hand bongs" that are like pipes, but you can put water in them. They are usually called "bubblers". Umm... and my friend told me all this stuff...

February 24, 2004

It's just funny to have the name "bubble" at all related to a bong. There are many bong designs that have a bottom chamber for water, and than a chamber above that one for the smoke to go into. They are often described as having a "double bubble". Also, there are little "hand bongs" that are like pipes, but you can put water in them. They are usually called "bubblers". Umm... and my friend told me all this stuff...

And to think, I thought Double Bubble was during happy hour at the bar where you got 2 drinks for 1?

Edited February 24, 2004 by The Weasel

1.3k · February 24, 2004

I'd post pictures here, but that probably wouldn't fly, so here are some links. Remember, they are for tobacco use only!

This one has a bunch.

So, as you can see, the name of that cache couldn't have been any more perfect.

Also, all the images are for educational purposes only. I'm just trying to educate you!

Edited February 24, 2004 by SBPhishy

February 24, 2004

Hey, Weasel, I just thought about that rock hard pink bubble gum. Guess I'm really naive, huh?

On the topic of the meth labs... I've found something quite similar to Sparky and CYBret's pix in a remote area of a city park here in D/FW. Thought it looked like meth stuff at the time but got poo-poo'd. I know it's been reported as a problem in the National Forests of east Texas too. Not only that, but around the same time they had some folks turn up murdered and mutilated in one of the same forests, suspected to be in relation to the drug activity. And finally, try asking folks that work in collegiate chemistry departments about drug problems. I know of some that have had stuff stolen for drug production and others that have been offered cleaned up chemistry hardware by police organizations taken from drug busts.

I don't let it stop me from caching where I want to, but I do pay attention to my surroundings and take precautions if necessary, just like I do during hunting season. If the topic does nothing but make one aware of what meth equipment looks like and how very hazardous to one's health it can be, it's done it's job.

February 24, 2004

and edd? it's commonly thought to be bad manneres to flame people for spelling and grammar. unless it's a thread ABOUT spelling and/or grammar, in which case you're on your own. flaming people about their grammar kind of suggests that you have no real grasp of the IDEAS presented and have to resort to criticism of the presentation.

Hey, I apologized above, again, sorry edd, sorry folks.

February 25, 2004

The Weasel Posted on Feb 24 2004, 06:41 AM

Hmmm, and to think, when I first saw this thread Ithought it was going to give good recipies and cooking tips after a long day of caching. I had bacon and eggs on the brain. (Sorry, my "quote" thingy doesn't appear to be working!)

Sounds to me like you've got the munchies!

Okay, Weasel, here you go!

Dave's Italian Vegetable Soup

1 lb Italian sausage

2 cups chopped onion

2 cloves garlic, minced

7 cups water

4 medium carrots, peeled and sliced

1 28 oz can of tomatoes, undrained and "squished" by hand

2 Tbsp beef bouillon granules

1 Tbsp Italian seasoning

1/2 tsp ground black pepper

1 1/2 cups of chopped zucchini

1 15 oz can of garbanzo beans, drained and rinsed

1 cup uncooked pasta, your choice of shape (choose something fun, like rotini!)

In large kettle or dutch oven, brown sausage, onion and garlic. Drain fat. Add water, carrots, tomatoes, bouillon, Italian seasoning and pepper. Bring to a boil, then cover and simmer for as long as the muse is upon you, but at least 45 minutes. Add zucchini, garbanzos and pasta. Cover and cook 15 minutes or until pasta is tender. Serve with a crusty loaf of French bread.

You'll love it!

I just didn't want you to be disappointed!

February 25, 2004

Our town here in Northweastern Pennsylvania hasn't seen many meth busts in town limits, YET. But the smaller town of Titusville 30 miles away has the problem to the level of being epidemic.

The Game Commision has been issuing educational posters on the problem, since the left-overs from a cooking party are usually in camping gear - propane cylinders, coolers, etc. Poor Joe Schmoe thinks, " why did somebody leave this perfectly good cooler lay out there?" The left-over chemicals can kill with a breath, or cause permanent lung or eye damage at least. Hence, again, HAZ-MAT has to be called in for disposal.

Within the Firefighting community, we are dreading the inevitable encounter with a mobile lab in a car accident, or worse yet, the meth house fire. The components are highly explosive, so the widespread evac and difficulty in containment will be a nightmare.

Thanks Ed & Sparky for the helpful info. This really should be viewed with concern by all cachers, IMHO.

February 25, 2004

It's just funny to have the name "bubble" at all related to a bong. There are many bong designs that have a bottom chamber for water, and than a chamber above that one for the smoke to go into. They are often described as having a "double bubble". Also, there are little "hand bongs" that are like pipes, but you can put water in them. They are usually called "bubblers". Umm... and my friend told me all this stuff...

I don't smoke anything, so I didn't know. I guess it is like a "water pipe" really? It certainly makes the thought of smoking more soothing in one of those water pipes - but what is the purpose? Is it to cool the smoke, somehow humidify it, pull out certain chemicals, all of the above? Or just sound neat?

1.3k · February 25, 2004

I don't smoke anything, so I didn't know. I guess it is like a "water pipe" really? It certainly makes the thought of smoking more soothing in one of those water pipes - but what is the purpose? Is it to cool the smoke, somehow humidify it, pull out certain chemicals, all of the above? Or just sound neat?

:unsure: A synonymous name for a bong is indeed a waterpipe. You are right on about cooling the smoke. It does a great job of that, and it will also pull out certain toxins which are not good for you. An irony of using a waterpipe though, is that even though it can pull out some bad toxins, it allows the smoker to inhale much bigger, because of the smoother smoke, that it really just adds to drawing the bad smoke deeper into your lungs anyway. Overall though, I would say it is better for you, or maybe I should say, not as bad for you. Also, many people also throw a few ice cubes down the pipe of the bong, so as the smoke heads towards your lungs, it is cooled even more, and can actually feel cold as you smoke it, allowing for a very soothing and refreshing smoke. Overall, I would say the "healthiest" way to smoke an organic material (weed or tobacoo) would be to "vaporize" it. But thats another thing altogether. Turkish hookahs, in which they smoked "Shisha" which is a tabacco usually mixed with fruit (it is very sticky and "gloppy" and smells very good) used water also, and those have been around for MANY years. So, while people have taken it too the next level, with artful glass blowing, and multi chambered waterpipes, I guess the Turks figured it out long before we did.

Edited February 25, 2004 by SBPhishy

1.8k · February 25, 2004

... it allows the smoker to inhale much bigger, because of the smoother smoke, that it really just adds to drawing the bad smoke deeper into your lungs anyway.

Does 'Cheech and Chong' know you are giving away their secrets ? :unsure:

February 25, 2004

ok i think i have made my point and all who needed to know have heard so i will now close this thread before it goes too far on the education of drugs and off topic of be careful out there so ty e-one who put threr 2 cents in.edd out

Catching And Cooking = Danger

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