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Knives In Geocaches


Snailman22030
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My friend found some really nice Swiss Army "type" knives on sale and bought several of them with the idea of placing them in Geocaches.

 

The rules say NO KNIVES! <_<

 

Well.... From what I've seen there're plenty of children out geocaching and I understand the prohibition but all of these kids are out geocaching with their involved parents soooo.....

 

Would it be OK to put a Swiss Army "type" knife (in its own box) in a geocache?

 

I'm looking for opinions here.... is there any wiggle room in that rule? :D

 

Thanks!

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Knives are part of the problem for Geocaching in Georgia State Parks (and other state areas). The Dept of Corrections uses prison work details to clean and maintain these lands so I completely understand their problem with it. I personally carry a small pocket knife for opening boxes, stripping wire, etc. but would not leave one in a cache in GA or elsewhere. Just my .02 worth.

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The rules say NO KNIVES! <_<

 

I'm looking for opinions here.... is there any wiggle room in that rule? :D

 

Thanks!

Just what it says, No Knives.

 

If we wiggle for one then we will be wiggling for others. Keep it simple.

 

 

just my opinion.

 

If I run across a knive I probably will take it out just to throw away. I would not pass it on. just me thinking that's all

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the rules for people placing caches? Since GC is only a listing site and not the "governing body" of all things geocaching, I'm not sure how they can impose rules on those finding caches and making trades. IMHO, people should use common sense when trading and leave what is appropriate depending on the cache. I can think of a lot of caches locally where keychain knives and Swiss Army Knife knockoffs would not be a problem.

 

____________

Gorak

Edited by Gorak
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Under the standard rules of liability it makes sense to say NO. When the conditions of terrain to a cache are more dangerous than a knive then a YES should be permissable.

So now we have a plus and a minus which gives us nothing.

So the only thing we can do is go to a standard kitchen implement section of

most stores and get a GEO SAFETY BLADE. Which also works as a good back scratcher after going thru all the nasties of the woods.

 

21d887c9-fab2-4811-8696-f8b5d8765b6d.jpg

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OH my ! I have missed the rule about 'no knives'. My very first cache find, I placed a small Swiss army knife in. I am planning my own cache and was going to put another small Swiss army knife in it.

 

My apologises to anyone I may have insulted. Rules are rules. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

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Well I've found literally dozens of knives since starting over the summer. I've traded for them everytime I've found one. Honestly I think its kinda cool to have a nice big collection of knives now, but would worry about putting a knife in a cache myself.

 

The biggest concern IMO, is what if a kid finds the cache while playing? Parents aren't watching very carefully, kid pulls out knife, kid plays with knife, kid says ouch, mom says "where the hell did you get that!" Kids says "in that box" through the tears and sniffles. Mom sees Geocaching.com, goes nuts, calls the cops, etc etc etc.

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I'm thinking we should all check out kitchens and make sure to dispose of all the knives therein. Check you garage as well. The kids play in those areas far more than they do in woods.

Criminal's always got a point....

 

Only difference is, if your kids cuts himself with a knife in your home, the only person you can blame for it is yourself.

 

Unless its your neighbor's house, then you could blame them :D

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I'm thinking we should all check out kitchens and make sure to dispose of all the knives therein. Check you garage as well. The kids play in those areas far more than they do in woods.

Difference is, it's not illegal to have a knife in your kitchen. It IS illegal to have a weapon in many parks. Since most of those same places also define a pocket knife as a weapon, leaving a pocket knife in a cache could be illegal. Not something we want to promote, imnho.

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To me the knife issue is pretty much the same as the glass jar issue, that which is common in every household suddenly becomes a deadly menace if it’s in a geocache. “Kids might find it and…..” Yeah, so what? Kid finds knife, kids plays with knife, kid cuts him/herself, kid learns valuable life lesson.

 

When I was a kid, I learned a valuable lesson not to poke your folding pocketknife into a tree or the blade will fold on your fingers. Duh, I was stupid, and I learned. My parents hadn’t foreseen that situation to warn me, but I lived through it just fine. I owned several pocketknives; the inadvertent finding of one would not be quite the implosion of modern society it seems to be now.

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Only difference is, if your kids cuts himself with a knife in your home, the only person you can blame for it is yourself.

Not true. You can sue the manufacturers of the knife and the drawer. You can also sue the store that sold you the knives. With a good imagination I'm sure you can think of a host of others that are responsible for little Johnny hurting himself with a kitchen knife. <_< Be very careful suggesting that we blame things on ourselves. Personal accountability is a slippery slope - what would happen if everyone thought of being personally accountable for their own actions? The legal profession would be rocked! You might just find yourself on the wrong end of a class action lawsuit brought against you on behalf of all lawyers for restraint of trade. :D Remember - nothing that happens to you is ever your fault. There is always someone else you can blame. <_<

 

_____________

Gorak

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The thing about knives is that the rule is in place to CTA of TPTB and to help present a family friendly face on geocaching.

 

I like pocket knives in trade as well. Some of these little knives are really cheap on Ebay's wholesale lots. Keeping in mind that they are not going to cut diamonds and they are pretty cheaply made, but would make an attractive trade item. I don't use them because of the rule.

 

We sacrifice for our art, the pocket knife rule, annoying and lacking in internal validity as it may be, is a small sacrifice. :D

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2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted on Feb 16 2004, 12:47 PM

Let's not forget about all the people who are too bright either. There are a lot of grownups that should not be trusted with sharp objects.

 

John

 

1st thank you 2oldfarts

2nd obey local regulations

3rd use good judgement

 

thats all I got to say about that - forest gump

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I had a pocket knife from about the age of 8 or so, and my parents knew it, and didn't care. I cut myself many times, always my own fault, and I still have scars on my fingers. I learned, and rarely cut myself any more. But it's a fact that people don't want to take responsibility for their own actions any more, nor for those of their kids. To me, this is a nonissue - if I find a knife, I really don't care, and rarely would I take one. I have too many at home and in my pockets already. The only place I go without a knife is on an airline. :D But you can bet there is one in my checked luggage. I *always* check some luggage now.

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While I can understand not putting a knife in a geocache in a park or near a playground, I have a real hard time agreeing that they should be banned from all caches. If a kid is old enough to be wandering around in the woods by themselves then don't you think that they would already know what a pocket knife is and that they are sharp? If you take your young child with you geocaching do you let them open the cache themselves while you wander off NO! I don't know too many kids under 10 that have their own gpsr's and go caching. :D

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This reminds me of a comment in a thread from a few months back. The writer mentioned that way back in the woods is where he used to play as a kid. I also used to play in the deep woods as a child.

 

It is troublesome to come up with a point at which knives would be ok. How far into the woods will children not go?

 

Also, this does not solve the problems of land manager liability or potential bad press.

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Also, this does not solve the problems of land manager liability or potential bad press.

Oddly enough, having someone else make everyones decisions for them and following the rules blindly doesn't seem to solve those problems either.

 

If you don't trust your fellow cachers to use good judgement, then you might as well give up now and find a new hobby, especially since you don't seem willing to give them the chance to make mistakes and learn from them.

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I think a army swiss knife (a small one) should be looked at as a multitool and not a knife. The blade is often worthless as a "knifeblade". It´s most suitable to cut treads and smaller stuff like that. And I don´t think there´s so many kids cacheing at their own.

 

I always carry a Leatherman Wawe despite a knifeprohibition :D in Sweden, since I see it as a multitool.

 

However I would never place a "real" knife with a big blade in a cache, I would keep it my selfe <_< .

 

Hade <_<

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Knives are part of the problem for Geocaching in Georgia State Parks (and other state areas). The Dept of Corrections uses prison work details to clean and maintain these lands so I completely understand their problem with it. I personally carry a small pocket knife for opening boxes, stripping wire, etc. but would not leave one in a cache in GA or elsewhere. Just my .02 worth.

Excellent point. :D

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What differance will it make. Everyone complains about golf balls too, but I still see one in every cache. Too many rules and regs. Too many people wanting to make the game fit there own beliefs and rules. Things are getting ridiculous. Just enjoy the time out and get off the little things that bug you. No matter what you do not want to see in a cache, I bet you'll see it!! Get over it. :D

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I think a army swiss knife (a small one) should be looked at as a multitool and not a knife.

 

Multi tools are also banned from caches. :D

 

It IS illegal to have a weapon in many parks. Since most of those same places also define a pocket knife as a weapon, leaving a pocket knife in a cache could be illegal.

 

Actually that isn't true. Most states have definitions as to what a constitues a weapon vis-a-vis a pocket knife. This is why I can't be arrested for walking through the park with my Swiss Army knife, but could be if I was carrying a switchblade, or Bowie knife.

 

For instance, in NJ the blade has to be over a certain length ( 5") for it to be considered a weapon and/or it has to have a spring loaded blade (e.g. switchblade). Even in the case of blades over the 5" limit, they are not considered weapons as long as they are being used for a legitimate purpose. This is the reason I can bring a Bowie knife camping, or hunting, but can't hang out in the town park or in front of the A & P with it and why I can bring a 10" carving knife into a park to slice the BBQ beef brisket at a picnic.

 

After checking the various state's weapons statutes, I've yet to find one that considers a pocket knife to be a weapon. See here.

Edited by briansnat
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Folks, it's not the people here you need to convince, it's the people who manage the lands where we want to hide our caches. Jeremy and the geocaching.com management don't sit around thinking up new rules to randomly impose. Pocket knives have been used as a reason to ban geocaching in certain parks. I don't like it any better than you do, but if it allows us to keep using the areas I'm willing to give up placing knives and multitools in caches.

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After checking the various state's weapons statutes, I've yet to find one  that considers a pocket knife to be a weapon.  See here.

From your link, Brian.

 

In California "Anything capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon is illegal. All concealed knives are a felony (except non locking folders). "

 

In Utah ""Dangerous weapon" means any item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury. "

 

In TN "any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument"

 

In Mass, any fixed or locking blade over 1.5 inches is a weapon

 

South Carolina and Georgia "a knife with a blade over two inches long" is a deadly weapon

 

Many states if the blade is over 3 inches it's a weapon

 

In NJ it's a 4th degree crime to sell a knife to someone under 18

 

In Idaho, you need a concealed weapons permit

 

So, do you write that all into the guidelines, which still would not address the fact that many land managers and law enforcement are uncomfortable with intentionally leaving knives in parks, or do you just say don't put knives in caches?

Edited by Mopar
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n California "Anything capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon is illegal. All concealed knives are a felony (except non locking folders). "

Which means pocket knives are OK.

 

Also, most of the other ones you quoted out of context. For example your quote of the TN law "any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument" describes thier defintion of a knife, not of an illegal weapon.

 

Massachussets talks about fixed and locking blades, which does not describe a Swiss Army knife, or similar pocket knife.

 

Even including the paragraphs you pointed out, my trusty Victorinox would be legal in all states except Georgia.

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n California "Anything capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon is illegal. All concealed knives are a felony (except non locking folders). "

Which means pocket knives are OK.

 

Also, most of the other ones you quoted out of context. For example your quote of the TN law "any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument" describes thier defintion of a knife, not of an illegal weapon.

 

Massachussets talks about fixed and locking blades, which does not describe a Swiss Army knife, or similar pocket knife.

 

Even including the paragraphs you pointed out, my trusty Victorinox would be legal in all states except Georgia.

No more out of context then the actual page itself. I tried to only quote passages that pertained to pocket knives, so I left out things like 10 inch blade is ok if you have a hunting permit. I don't think I quotes any that have a different meaning in the context of the page you listed.

BTW, my trusty pocket knife that i've carried for 20yrs (I lost the one before it) has a locking blade. So did my old standard issue boyscout penknife. Carried in my pocket is a felony in CA, according to your link. Again, like Yumitori posted, the problem isn't with gc.com. I'm sure Jeremy would probably love to sell official GC.com pocket knives, and at one time I had bought up a batch of pocket knives and used as trade items myself. The problem with knives is what the public thinks of us leaving knives in the parks. There was already one county in Ohio that outright banned geocaches because of a knife in a cache. Wouldn't you REALLY rather have a dirty golf ball, anyway? :(

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