What Would You Do?

[+Gorak]

What would you do if you and your friends received a number of threats via email and voicemail and then your caches started disappearing? What would you think if the threats contained wording to the effect that the sender was declaring war on you followed by statements on your cache logs that ‘you are going to die’ just prior to those caches going missing? How would you react if efforts to contact that person were foiled because they blocked all your known email addresses?

 

Would you assume that the person making the threats was stealing your caches or would you assume it was merely a case of accidental discovery of the caches by muggles that, by chance, coincided with the receipt of those threats?

 

How would you handle the situation if it were happening to you?

 

______________

Gorak

[+The Two Navigators]

WOW that is some crazy stuff. I really hope that this is not happening. I would probably call the cities finest (a.k.a the 5-0) and get them involved. Some people just go to far on certain things. If this situation is happening to you, I assume that you would know who this individual is by there user name I.P. address (gc.com should be able to provide that info) and if they are using voice mail I would defenitly contact the phone company, they should be able to track the phone number.

Again I hope this is a "what if situation" and is not actually happening

[+Gorak]

Unfortunately, it is really happening. And we know for certain who left the threats as they've made no effort to conceal their identity. I should clarify that the death threats were made to the caches and not the people involved I doubt the local constabulary would be interested in becoming involved. The caches involved are Nocturnal Mission #1 and Training Barge. I won't reveal the name of the suspect cacher as he is very well known both locally and in the forums.

 

______________

Gorak

[+The Two Navigators]

Ah ok we thought that it was a person to person threat involving bodily harm. Its still crappy that somebody is being stupid like that.

[+ZoomZoom]

Hmmm! Good question. I think I would reveal the identity of this person, if I knew for sure, to the whole wide world to see. Then I would shove needles up his nose.

[+Halden]

More battles between you, J5 and the usual?

[tlg]

How would you handle the situation if it were happening to you?

 

______________

Gorak

I'd be upset just like you are and I would consider another hobby if it continued. There's really not much else you can do but 'turn the other cheek' , 'take the high road' or any other suitable cliche.

[+Sparky-Watts]

Claymore Mines.

[+Gorak]

I'd be upset just like you are and I would consider another hobby if it continued. There's really not much else you can do but 'turn the other cheek' , 'take the high road' or any other suitable cliche.

I have no intention of letting a miscreant like that drive me from one of my hobbies. If it continues I'll just stop contributing caches or place them under a sockpuppet. I also have no intention of 'turning the other cheek'.

 

____________

Gorak

[tlg]

I have no intention of letting a miscreant like that drive me from one of my hobbies. If it continues I'll just stop contributing caches or place them under a sockpuppet. I also have no intention of 'turning the other cheek'.

 

____________

Gorak

Fair enough. You did ask us what we would do.

 

I never thought about the sock puppet approach. Good idea. It would be a shame though, if actions like this stopped you from placing caches.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I'm old and senile so I'd probably just beat them half to death with a stick.

[+canadazuuk]

I should clarify that the death threats were made to the caches and not the people involved.

 

Thank you for the *clarification*.

 

I believe the quote left in the cache log was from the movie 'Blade Runner' where Harrison Ford is making away with his 'pleasure model' replicant and hears these words: 'Too bad she won't live, but then again, who does'...

 

There have been many caches in the Vancouver area go missing. I was surprised to learn of *more* caches going missing as of recent. I've been worried about mine a few times, although, knock on wood, none have gone astray yet that I am aware of. I did have to archive 4-5 caches that I deemed as 'high-risk' at one point.

[+Klondike Mike]

Claymore Mines.[/quote

 

I don't think those are legal in Canada

[BeDoggy]

What would you do if you and your friends received a number of threats via email and voicemail and then your caches started disappearing? What would you think if the threats contained wording to the effect that the sender was declaring war on you followed by statements on your cache logs that ‘you are going to die’ just prior to those caches going missing? How would you react if efforts to contact that person were foiled because they blocked all your known email addresses?

 

Would you assume that the person making the threats was stealing your caches or would you assume it was merely a case of accidental discovery of the caches by muggles that, by chance, coincided with the receipt of those threats?

 

How would you handle the situation if it were happening to you?

 

______________

Gorak

Why don't you just come out and make your accusation without mincing words?

 

Why talk in circles if you are sure who did it? Just level your charges complete with names and proof and get this "war" over with once and for all.

 

If you are sure who's doing this, report them to Groundspeak, provide your proof and have them banned.

 

Or are you not sure but don't mind casting aspersions on someone who is probably not guilty?

 

Really....As a local cacher I'm more than a bit disgusted and bewildered by this ongoing crapfest. You'd think you guys could simply agree to disagree, seeing that you are middle aged adults and not children. But this fight just keeps going and going. I'm not choosing sides here, since I have no idea who's done what and when. Oh, I've read on the forums here, at BCgeocaching and at Woodsters all the arguments and sniping and such since this whole thing began. I've tried to see both sides. But maybe it's time you guys worked out your differences in private. I've talked with several other local cachers who are disgusted too. I've heard other cachers voice the opinion that they aren't going to be planning any events because of the possibility of all you guys showing up and ruining the event. That's crossed my mind too.

 

Or maybe you guys just need to step back from this hobby for a while and gain a healthy perspective again. Getting this worked up over the stalking of tupperware surely can't be a good sign, guys.....

[+Gorak]

Why don't you just come out and make your accusation without mincing words?

We did. You must have missed it. Thanks for your insight.

 

___________

Gorak

[BeDoggy]

Why don't you just come out and make your accusation without mincing words?

We did. You must have missed it. Thanks for your insight.

 

___________

Gorak

Where did you make the accusation by name and provide proof? I didn't see it here in this thread....unless it was removed before I saw it. You guys make accusations but always leave an "out" for yourselves. If you are going to make public accusations, put your money where your mouth is. Name names, don't just assume everyone knows for sure who you are talking about. I mean, I know, but others may not.

 

Provide evidence. Specific and accurate contents of threats. Proof that your accusations are valid. Word by word transcripts of threats made in logs and by email. To refuse to do so makes me suspicious that your real motive is to assasinate the character of another in a public setting.

 

I've seen your attempts at this kind of thing before. Specifically when you guys (Jomarac5 and RobertM as well as yourself) kept making cracks about CanadaZuuk needing or being on "Meds" Even when he requested and then demanded you guys stop it, you didn't. So now there may be many others out there who have had the suggestion planted in thier minds that he has that problem.

 

That is just not right or fair.

 

Now you want everyone to think he's a thief, with no real proof and just a suspicion fed by personal prejudice. I'll make a stand here and say that I don't blame CanadaZuuk for being upset with you guys, and that I don't believe that he's a thief.

 

Could I be wrong? Possibly. But if you guys are going to come out in a public forum and make accusations and expect everyone to believe what you are saying, do it properly. If you aren't prepared to do that, then keep your disagreements private. You may think it's no big deal to make someone look bad in public, but I would disagree. It's not something I would ever take lightly and could never feel good about.

 

Here's something to think about. I've had, at times, email correspondence with CanadaZuuk about various geocaching related subjects. Even when I left the door wide open to badmouth you guys (on at least two occasions) he refused to do it and did nothing but express regret over the situation. On the flip side, when I talked with you guys at the Belcarra event and went kayaking with Jomarac5, both situation degenerated into gossip and badmouthing of CanadaZuuk, Mr Gigabyte, Jeremy Irish, and several of the forum moderators.

 

These have been my experiences with you guys. I've tried to be impartial over the past months and friendly with everyone, but I won't straddle the fence any more over this. If you can't provide proof that CanadaZuuk took your caches, then I believe that you should retract your accusation and apologize for making it.

 

That goes for the "Meds" stuff as well.

 

Brent.

[BeDoggy]

Why don't you just come out and make your accusation without mincing words?

We did. You must have missed it. Thanks for your insight.

 

___________

Gorak

And instead of brushing my post aside, why don't you humor me and address the rest of what I said?

[+Sparky-Watts]

Claymore Mines.[/quote

 

I don't think those are legal in Canada

It's only illegal if you get caught......

[+Ducky]

Claymore Mines.[/quote

 

I don't think those are legal in Canada

Your right antipersonel mines are, but we still have antitank ones!!!!

[+Gorak]

And instead of brushing my post aside, why don't you humor me and address the rest of what I said?

Because this thread isn't about accusations. You're the one that brought up the topic of accusations and named names, yet you expect me to explain your accusations. Sorry, not going there. That thread already has already happened in another forum.

 

This thread is about what you would do if it was your caches that were going missing. You're off topic.

 

___________

Gorak

[tlg]

Because this thread isn't about accusations.  You're the one that brought up the topic of accusations and named names, yet you expect me to explain your accusations.  Sorry, not going there.  That thread already has already happened in another forum.

 

This thread is about what you would do if it was your caches that were going missing.  You're off topic. 

 

___________

Gorak

It certainly appears to me that this thread is about 'accusations'. But, that's neither here nor there, because it's your thread and my interpretation doesn't really matter.

 

To address a question you asked in your original post, the part about what would we do if emails to the suspect were blocked, I have a suggestion. Find someone to act as an intermediary between you two, maybe set up a meeting and let you two try to sort out all the animosity.

[BeDoggy]

And instead of brushing my post aside, why don't you humor me and address the rest of what I said?

Because this thread isn't about accusations. You're the one that brought up the topic of accusations and named names, yet you expect me to explain your accusations. Sorry, not going there. That thread already has already happened in another forum.

 

This thread is about what you would do if it was your caches that were going missing. You're off topic.

 

___________

Gorak

As for being off topic, I don't care simply because I don't believe this topic is really about what you say it is about. It seems to me to be a device to smear the character of another cacher.

 

I don't think you'll answer because you just don't have a defence based in fact and grounded in the principles of fair play. Complaining about me being off-topic is just stonewalling and a smokescreen to divert attention from your less than honorable intentions.

 

But since you want me to be on topic, here it is:

 

What would I do? I would deal with this by talking to the person involved privately, without trying to be dirty and calling that person's character into question in public. I would try to see the caches as a secondary concern. I would put my pride aside and really listen to the other guy, admit wrong where I honestly could, and come to a fair compromise.

 

Really, I'm not trying to set myself up as an adversary here. But if I'm going to be the honorable man I want to be, I can't just sit there and say nothing. You don't need to agree with me. But if you are honorable you will at least respect MY intentions and not hide behind the rules when it becomes convenient.

[+Cache-tech]

This is not a venue for personal attacks or accusations, so far this thread has not been to bad, but please keep names out of the thread. The question I see is "What would you do?", not "Who is doing this?" and I would like it to remain this way within reason. Myself, I would forward any emails to contact@Groundspeak.com concerning Geocaching.com listings and ignore this person, they will get tired and hopefully stop. If someone would like to take pleasure in stealing my caches, then I would just disable them or archive them, they are not hurting me, they are hurting the community with less caches to hunt. This is suppose to be a fun hobby, you hide a cache and someone finds it, signs the logbook, they hide a cache and you find it, sign the logbook. This is why I am involved in Geocaching, it gets me out to places I never been before and I have fun.

[+DocMagoo]

This is not a venue for personal attacks or accusations, so far this thread has not been to bad, but please keep names out of the thread.  The question I see is "What would you do?", not "Who is doing this?"

cache-tech, I'm not being critical of your post...so I hope that my intent doesn't get misconstrued. You mentioned the thread asks "What would you do". However it also mentions "to catch a thief." I think the second part of the thread topic is the hidden agenda behind it all. As far as I'm concerned the thread here and the same identical thread posted within the bcgeocaching site have the intent to bring defamation on someone, unless the thread starter can prove and provide basis for what he says. I would be the first to say that the "airing of dirty laundry", which is really what this is, has really become tiresome at both sites. I hope that the concerned parties really read what you've put in the latter half of your post.

Edited February 15, 2004 by DocMagoo

[+RobertM]

If you are going to make public accusations, put your money where your mouth is. Name names, don't just assume everyone knows for sure who you are talking about. I mean, I know, but others may not.

 

Provide evidence. Specific and accurate contents of threats. Proof that your accusations are valid. Word by word transcripts of threats made in logs and by email. To refuse to do so makes me suspicious that your real motive is to assasinate the character of another in a public setting.

 

I've seen your attempts at this kind of thing before. Specifically when you guys (Jomarac5 and RobertM as well as yourself) kept making cracks about CanadaZuuk needing or being on "Meds" Even when he requested and then demanded you guys stop it, you didn't. So now there may be many others out there who have had the suggestion planted in thier minds that he has that problem.

 

That is just not right or fair.

 

Now you want everyone to think he's a thief, with no real proof and just a suspicion fed by personal prejudice. I'll make a stand here and say that I don't blame CanadaZuuk for being upset with you guys, and that I don't believe that he's a thief.

 

Could I be wrong? Possibly. But if you guys are going to come out in a public forum and make accusations and expect everyone to believe what you are saying, do it properly. If you aren't prepared to do that, then keep your disagreements private. You may think it's no big deal to make someone look bad in public, but I would disagree. It's not something I would ever take lightly and could never feel good about.

 

Here's something to think about. I've had, at times, email correspondence with CanadaZuuk about various geocaching related subjects. Even when I left the door wide open to badmouth you guys (on at least two occasions) he refused to do it and did nothing but express regret over the situation. On the flip side, when I talked with you guys at the Belcarra event and went kayaking with Jomarac5, both situation degenerated into gossip and badmouthing of CanadaZuuk, Mr Gigabyte, Jeremy Irish, and several of the forum moderators.

 

These have been my experiences with you guys. I've tried to be impartial over the past months and friendly with everyone, but I won't straddle the fence any more over this. If you can't provide proof that CanadaZuuk took your caches, then I believe that you should retract your accusation and apologize for making it.

 

That goes for the "Meds" stuff as well.

 

Brent.

BeDoggy,

 

No one has accused anyone of anything. I think you should read ALL the messages / posts again. You are clearly mistaken.

 

The situation is as follows, without naming names. Someone makes threatening posts, sends threatening e-mails (I think, I may be wrong on this, and have to check), and I get a threatening voicemail message (which I have saved on the Fido message system). After these threats both caches (one listed on GC.com and one listed on the N site) go missing. The person clearly said the caches are going to die in one of his logs / posts, in his voicemail message to me he said that "you'll have World War 3 on your hands and you'll lose".

 

You do the math and make your own conclusions. You say "provide evidence" I don't think it'd be appropriate for me to paste an audio clip of the voicemail message left. If you'd like to hear it for yourself feel free to contact me and we can arrange to meet and I'll play it for you.

 

With regard to cache events I think you have no idea what you are talking about. I attended the Belcarra Blitz cache event, along with several other cachers who I met there and no problem was experienced. If I recall, a good time was had by all that attended.

 

I don't really recall me making comments about "Meds" after he asked people to stop with it, but point them out to me. If he did ask for it to stop I'm sure I probably did and you'll no doubt see that I have not made any reference to his "Meds". I may be wrong but J5, Gorak or I were not the first people to make use of the term "Meds" to Zuuky. It started with someone else.

 

You say that "you want everyone to think he's a thief". No one has said he's a thief, or accused him of stealing anything. I have no control over what people think. The fact of the matter is that serious threats were made that caches were going to "die" and then 2 of them disappeared. Again, as I said above, you do the math.

 

Can we get this topic back on topic now?

 

RobertM

[+RobertM]

I think the second part of the thread topic is the hidden agenda behind it all.  As far as I'm concerned the thread here and the same identical thread posted within the bcgeocaching site have the intent to bring defamation on someone, unless the thread starter can prove and provide basis for what he says.  I would be the first to say that the "airing of dirty laundry", which is really what this is, has really become tiresome at both sites.  I hope that the concerned parties really read what you've put in the latter half of your post.

 

Doc Macgoo,

 

Feel free to contact me if you'd like to meet and listen to the audio clip of the voicemail message I received. I will not be pasting it on any forums as that would not be appropriate.

 

If anyone wants to contact me about this issue feel free to e-mail me through the GC.com site. I'd be more than happy to meet with people if they wish to discuss this with me.

 

Thanks

 

RobertM

[+canadazuuk]

Feel free to contact me as well to review the full context of what 'World War III' was referring to. It certainly had nothing to do with violence or threat against one's person (or even geocache for that matter). Geesh. It was a cliche hyperbole to get a point across about (originally) someone saying they were going to delete a 'found it' log if 'parking coordinates' were listed within it, and then (secondly) in regards to a log on a cache page that someone didn't want to change after posting some inaccuracies with a malignent slant.

 

Would everyone stop for a minute.

 

Gorak says two caches are missing, presumably stolen. Since I had nothing to do with these caches going missing, I'd sure like to know who the heck did...

[+RobertM]

I had nothing to do with these caches going missing

No one said you did.

[+DocMagoo]

I had nothing to do with these caches going missing

No one said you did.

 

The situation is as follows, without naming names. Someone makes threatening posts, sends threatening e-mails (I think, I may be wrong on this, and have to check), and I get a threatening voicemail message (which I have saved on the Fido message system). After these threats both caches (one listed on GC.com and one listed on the N site) go missing. The person clearly said the caches are going to die in one of his logs / posts, in his voicemail message to me he said that "you'll have World War 3 on your hands and you'll lose".

No, you didn't say it....you insinuated it.

Rather than do the proverbial "witchhunt", why not get on with the game?

[+canadazuuk]

I would like to one day know who took the caches Gorak has referred to.

 

I will not participate in this thread beyond what I have said already.

 

No one is blocked from sending me e-mail at my known e-mail addresses, although I have disabled the PM feature here at Groundspeak.

 

Maybe everyone should just go out and find or hide a few caches now... I see the gnats coming on strong...

[+Sparky-Watts]

Hmmmm....seems like this is at least the second thread in as many weeks with the same nasty overtones that originated in the another forum.....perhaps it's best to leave the problems that started in that forum there. I don't think airing dirtly laundry in the gc.com forums is appropriate, but I've read the other forums, and it almost seems to be encouraged there. Take it back there where it all started.

[+RobertM]

Rather than do the proverbial "witchhunt", why not get on with the game?

I'm not on any witchhunt, and I don't think anyone else is either.

[+Gorak]

Since somebody initially hijacked this thread with their uninformed rants and holier-than-thou lectures, it’s degenerated into an argument about who accused who of what peppered with Sparky’s normal off-topic gems of wisdom. The thread has strayed so far from the original question it no longer serves any useful purpose.

 

It’s closed.