Positive Cache Id

24.7k · February 12, 2004

Looks like we have a stash the cache type person on the loose here in Idaho. The spouted off some crap about public domain and absconded with some caches.

So I got to wondering. How can you mark a cache easily so that you can prove beyond any doubt it's yours?

I was thinking that a thumb print of some type that was permanent would do the trick. It wouldn't have to be visible and might be better if it wasn't. Since my prints are on file this is an easy conformation for me.

Is there something you can use to make a print that will be indelible? Is there another method that would work better?

February 12, 2004

Blood actually leaves behind very good DNA proof I hear. Long after all "visible-to-the-naked-eye" proof has faded, U.V. light shows it up again. Course, wether you choose to use your own, or the person attempting to use "public domain" on it, you make the call.

Forgive the surlyness of my reply, I have a splitting headache, and the continued efforts of select knuckle-dragging wastes of genetic code to complicate the fair sport of geocaching by appropriating caches at whim has me irritable.

3.8k · February 12, 2004

Or maybe you could etch a serial number into the cache and make photographic documentation. Then you could probably get Lloyd's to insure it.

February 12, 2004

Or maybe you could etch a serial number into the cache and make photographic documentation. Then you could probably get Lloyd's to insure it.

I like that idea !!!

DNA is too costly (plus I doubt the police would use it for theft), and fingerprints take forever to get back.

Putting a etched number and/or name is quick positive ID.

4.8k · February 12, 2004

Why do you need to prove it is "yours?" For pursuing theft charges? Just curious. Anyway, I would think that the fact that you posted it on the site and gave the coords etc and could explain what it looked like would be enough. Circumstantial evidence, yes, but still likely enough. To be sure, put an identifying mark on the cache that would not be seen as an identifier. E.g. a blue dot or some kind of odd mark on the container like a scratch in a particular place. Then just take a pic of you holding the cache before placing. Those "odd identifiers" can be the key. A name, print etc. can be removed by the thief, but they might overlook other factors. For example, my lawn mower was stolen last summer. It had duct tape on the handle where a screw had gone missing. Weeks after reporting the theft, I saw a person using the mower 2 blocks away from my house. That duct tape stood out! I called the police and they recovered the mower. The thief had removed a sticker with my name on it and removed the serial number tag, but didn't think to remove that identifying duct tape that I of course had told the police about when I first reported it missing!

4k · February 12, 2004

Again, I simply say: Claymore mine.

February 12, 2004

I see on his cache page that he has been banned. Hopefully this will put a stop to him.

In case you haven't seen his Bio, it reads...

trashcan04 is on the loose, WATCH OUT!! your cache may be next.

Can you believe it? What a jerk!

I thought Sparky's idea was a little harsh but after reading that I'm not so sure.

4k · February 12, 2004

Can you believe it? What a jerk!

I thought Sparky's idea was a little harsh but after reading that I'm not so sure.

I'd already read about his antics in another thread.....and I had the same suggestion for dealing with Subigo. That stuff just ain't cool.

2.2k · February 12, 2004

i get a special paper that i find at office depot. it has chili peppers on it. unless they want to buy the same paper. get a letterhead or paper that they can't use. if you have it at home and they don't, there is your proof.

4k · February 12, 2004

changing my avatar because my homer's brain was hijacked and altered. can't have any confusion.

Wanna borrow my snuggly kitty avatar?

2k · February 12, 2004

Stamping numbers is better than etching. If the number is ground off it can be brought back up with acid. Once an etched number is ground off it is gone. Or so the endless forensic crime shows my wife watches would have me belive.

The claymore idea is ok just remind me never to look for one of Sparky's caches.

4k · February 12, 2004

Stamping numbers is better than etching. If the number is ground off it can be brought back up with acid. Once an etched number is ground off it is gone. Or so the endless forensic crime shows my wife watches would have me belive.
The claymore idea is ok just remind me never to look for one of Sparky's caches.

Hmmm....now that I think about it.....my caches have only been found once, but never logged online......that's odd......

February 12, 2004

Where do these sociopathic party poopers come from and where can we send them?

February 12, 2004

How involved in a cache theft do you think police will get?

What good does proving it's yours do?

I just can't imagine anybody getting arrested for taking a cache.

Heck, when your car gets broken into, they take a report and that's it.

Do you really expect them to do more for a cache?

It is frustrating, and the thief is scum, I just don't see cache theft becoming a police priority.

But hey, if you can get cops enthusiastic about arresting a cache thief, more power to you.

February 12, 2004

RK, are you trying to prove that a cache is yours to the police (in dealing with the theft aspect) or to ID the cache so that you can take posetion of it if it's placed again (the steal a cache and hide it elsewhere aspect) ? If you're going for route number two, just about any mark that you, or any other cacher that you notify, could identify would work, as long as it's fairly unnoticeable to the casual observer. You may not even have to bother with etching or stamping.

February 12, 2004

Where do these sociopathic party poopers come from and where can we send them?

This is a very interesting question, and I think this is why I'm averse to general advertisement of caching.

When the hobby is grown by word of mouth, you only introduce people who you think would play in the spirit of the game. When it's broadcast to the world by newspapers and other media, the sociopaths say "hooray! something else I can mess up! what fun!"

Just my take,

Cheers,

Stu

38.2k · February 12, 2004

When the hobby is grown by word of mouth, you only introduce people who you think would play in the spirit of the game. "

That would be nice if it were true, but a good number of thse miscreants are long time geocachers who had a run-in with the powers at this website, or another geocacher and decided to get even.

Edited February 12, 2004 by briansnat

February 12, 2004

Clearly what is needed here is a geocache sting operation.

2.2k · February 12, 2004

Unfortunately, a cache planted on public land would be considered abandoned property by the letter of the law. Even though people like Subigo are a real pain in the %$# theres nothing that law enforcement can do.

There are bad apples in every bunch and theres an assumed risk in planting a cache. There will always be people who will get there kicks out of ruining the fun of others. The best we can hope to do is to just ignore them and hope they get bored and find something better to do.

February 12, 2004

If law enforcement won't help, I suggest someone beat the hell out of the guy.

I'm only partly kidding.

9.2k · February 12, 2004

As I was thinking about this topic, and sympathizing with the latest group of cachers to worry about pirates, I thought of an interesting and unexpected reason for why it's good to get permission. I own four caches placed in State Parks, with a written permit. I have obligations to the State under my permit, like to restore the area if it gets torn up from bushwackers and searchers, to remove my cache after 3 years when the permit expires, etc. So, a state agency officially recognizes my rights and obligations as an owner of this cache. I would show this document as proof of ownership.

6.4k · February 12, 2004

How about marking the cache with UV ink? If it were done the right way, there would be no way to notice it without a black light.

February 12, 2004

In PA, we already have this. It's called a permission form from the Park Rangers. You fill out a sticker, and stick it to your cache, sign your name on it and then use a piece of clear packaging tape to seal your signature so it can't be rubbed off.

4k · February 12, 2004

In PA, we already have this. It's called a permission form from the Park Rangers. You fill out a sticker, and stick it to your cache, sign your name on it and then use a piece of clear packaging tape to seal your signature so it can't be rubbed off.

Hey, that might work....they'd never get that packing tape off the cache..... :unsure:

February 12, 2004

Unfortunately, a cache planted on public land would be considered abandoned property by the letter of the law.

Not true.

If your contact information is on it--it's YOUR property. (Without posting the whole reference again...)

Abandoned property is such because the owner can't be identified/contacted, Lost property legally requires those who discover it to return it (or they've stolen it). Intentionally placed property with clear notice of such and contact info is generally NOT legally abandoned.

(Your state/local laws and interpretations may vary of course).

This is one reason I put my 'anonymous' email address along with geocaching.com on the outside of my containers.

Enjoy,

Randy

PS: I'm not an attorney, I just play one on the web.

References:

Ralph E. Boyer, Survey of the Law of Property , 680 (3d ed. 1981)

Aigler, Rights of Finders, 21 Mich. L.Rev. 664 (1923)

William T. Fryer, Readings in Personal Property, 368 (1938)

Ray A. Brown, A Treatise on the Law of Personal Property , 25-26 (1936)

2.3k · February 12, 2004

Clearly what is needed here is a geocache sting operation.

Already been done... Fortunately, our agent was able to get this picture of the culprit although he is trying

to mask his idenity, I think I know who it may be!!

Here he is:

20.7k · February 12, 2004

...If your contact information is on it--it's YOUR property. (Without posting the whole reference again...)
...Intentionally placed property with clear notice of such and contact info is generally NOT legally abandoned.

A while back, there was a story in the paper regarding the illegal dumping of trash. Bags of trash were turned in to the authorities. Envelopes were found in the bags with the owner's name and address. The individuals were prosecuted. I wonder how good a defense of 'I put it there on purpose' would have worked?

4k · February 12, 2004

...If your contact information is on it--it's YOUR property. (Without posting the whole reference again...)
...Intentionally placed property with clear notice of such and contact info is generally NOT legally abandoned.

A while back, there was a story in the paper regarding the illegal dumping of trash. Bags of trash were turned in to the authorities. Envelopes were found in the bags with the owner's name and address. The individuals were prosecuted. I wonder how good a defense of 'I put it there on purpose' would have worked?

I cannot tell a lie. I placed that envelope with my name on it underneath that pile of trash! :unsure:

20.7k · February 12, 2004

Ha! I placed that envelope with your name on it under the trash. :unsure:

Edited February 12, 2004 by sbell111

6.4k · February 12, 2004

I cannot tell a lie. I placed that envelope with my name on it underneath that pile of trash!

Would you like to see (with full orchestration and five part harmony) twentyseven 8x10 color glossy pictures with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one?

Edited February 12, 2004 by Mopar

9.2k · February 12, 2004

You can plunder any cache you want,

at Jeremy's Restaurant.

February 12, 2004

You can find any cache you want, at Jeremy's Restaurant

Walk right in it's around the back

Just a half a mile from the railroad track

You can find any cache you want, at Jeremy's Restaurant

Edited February 12, 2004 by AllenLacy

24.7k · February 12, 2004

I've thought of a simple rememedy. "Your car is in the public domain on a public road, in public sight, while I'm not going to move your car to prove the point you can enjoy scraping this sticker off your windsheld while you think about whats public and whats not. Your name is also in the public domain and has been distributed along with more of these handy stickers."

To clarify: The reason to mark the cache is for reporting it stolen. Maybe one doesn't get any attention but two might and three would. At what point it's addressed, who knows?

This summer I had the window shot out of my Blazer along with the street light it was parked under. We got a "It's probably kids with a BB gun" and that was pretty much it. In all honesty I didn't expect any more but without reporting it they wouldn't even know to look for whatever magical number gets seriouse attention. A neighboring city has something like 200+ windshields shot out and that does have the attention of the news, the police and everyone else. The magic number must be between 1 and 200.

Edited February 12, 2004 by Renegade Knight

February 12, 2004

Sparky, I want you to go over and sit down on that bench that says "Group W".

And finally, "Have you rehabilitated yourself?"

4k · February 12, 2004

Sparky, I want you to go over and sit down on that bench that says "Group W".

And finally, "Have you rehabilitated yourself?"

<-----------Does it look like I've rehabilitated myself? :unsure:

9.4k · February 12, 2004

Clearly what is needed here is a geocache sting operation.

Already been done... Fortunately, our agent was able to get this picture of the culprit although he is trying

to mask his idenity, I think I know who it may be!!

Here he is:

I have never been to Idaho!

February 13, 2004

Sax man smurf is welcomed in Idaho. :unsure:

Edited February 13, 2004 by pokyjoe48

February 13, 2004

I've thought of a simple rememedy. "Your car is in the public domain on a public road, in public sight, while I'm not going to move your car to prove the point you can enjoy scraping this sticker off your windsheld while you think about whats public and whats not. Your name is also in the public domain and has been distributed along with more of these handy stickers."

I love that sticker idea, cracked me up. :unsure:

February 13, 2004

You can find any cache you want, at Jeremy's Restaurant

So maybe Nixon's eighteen and a half minute gap was about a plan to secretely deploy tens of thousands of ammo cans and tupperware around the world. :unsure:

Edited February 13, 2004 by blindleader

February 13, 2004

Hey, that might work....they'd never get that packing tape off the cache.....

Well, you could do...oh nevermind, why bother.

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