Let's Get Rid Of "trade Even Or Trade Up"

February 10, 2004

This topic came up on another thread.

I have never really liked the “trade even or trade up” convention that we try to promote (usually unsuccessfully) in Geocaching. If I want to trade even, then I would rather trade my dollars for merchandise at Walmart - they have a much better selection. Under the current system, most of the stuff of significant value that gets left in a cache, does not go to the nice people - because they often have not brought trading items that are equal or greater in value. So most of these items go to the persons who cheat under the current convention. Or they just get left there.

Accordingly, I would like to see a new trading convention adopted:

Take any single item you want (including the best thing in the cache) regardless of value, so long as you leave something decent, regardless of value. “Decent” items do not have to be expensive, and many can be obtained for under a buck. If you are feeling particularly generous (perhaps because it’s a milestone cache or something nice has just happened to you), then by all means leave something of significant monetary value, either when you start a cache, or when you are trading. Subsequent finders will be surprised and delighted by your act of generosity! This way all caches will be stocked with decent items, and sometimes you might find real treasure that is yours to keep!

Do I have any supporters out there?

20.7k · February 10, 2004

Interesting.

Personally, I think that there should be a rule that no items be greater in value than a mctoy. This way, there will only be two types of items in caches. Perfectly fine little trinks and garbage that can be trashed-out.

February 10, 2004

OK. Here's another way to go: request what you want and see how well it flies.

Here's my new cache: Nice Swag cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...47-51a935c17817

And what, may I ask is wrong with that idea? If they end up taking all the good swag and leaving crap, then I'll admit defeat and change the name of the cache. But I thought I'd give the local cachers a chance to show what they're made of. and I don't mean, show that they are made of money! Made of niceness, perhaps.. :blink:

4.8k · February 10, 2004

I explained in the other thread that when I leave nice trade items, I do not expect a fair trade in terms of monetary value. All I ask is that the trader leave something they think another might enjoy. There are plenty of inexpensive items out that that other people will like and that is fair enough for me.

Also, around here a cache that starts nicely stocked tends to stay that way much longer. People here tend to put more thought into trading when it is for nicer items. We also have some people here that tend to leave nice items but rarely take anything.

I started one cache with some fairly nice new items in it and specifically stated on the cache page that I did not expect trades to be equal in monetary value. Some people traded "nicer" than others, but all traded "fairly" in my mind. I didn't see anybody leaving junk. Instead, some people left some fairly unique items and one guy left the entire contents of a cache that he was archiving. I have also been told by a recent finder that someone left a very nice homemade clock with carved birds in the cache (which is apparently still there).

So, I tend to feel that if the expectation for trading is that the item is something another might be happy to find, without consideration for dollar value, that trading tends to end up more fair. People can leave expensive items without worrying about others feeling uncomfortable taking them, and people who take nice items are much less likely to leave broken toys etc because they can find something "decent" but cheap to leave without feeling guilty.

4.8k · February 10, 2004

OK. Here's another way to go: request what you want and see how well it flies.
Here's my new cache: Nice Swag cache

That is basically the idea. I think all Seneca is adding is the idea that "nice" isn't necessarily based on any monetary value, which from looking at your cache page I think you would agree with.

3.1k · February 10, 2004

How about no trading at all. Just sign the stupid logbook and go buy yourself stuff you like.

Pretty much what I do anyway :blink:

February 10, 2004

Accordingly, I would like to see a new trading convention adopted:

Take any single item you want (including the best thing in the cache) regardless of value, so long as you leave something decent, regardless of value. “Decent” items do not have to be expensive, and many can be obtained for under a buck. If you are feeling particularly generous (perhaps because it’s a milestone cache or something nice has just happened to you), then by all means leave something of significant monetary value, either when you start a cache, or when you are trading. Subsequent finders will be surprised and delighted by your act of generosity! This way all caches will be stocked with decent items, and sometimes you might find real treasure that is yours to keep!

Do I have any supporters out there?

I support this position -- it generally describes how I trade, except that most often I just sign the log book.

I'm not keen on saying that there is a 'rule' about what one must do in regard to trading, but certainly something like this could be put out as a 'position' which is something different.

Thanks for the good idea.

HM :blink:

4.8k · February 10, 2004

How about no trading at all. Just sign the stupid logbook and go buy yourself stuff you like.

Pretty much what I do anyway

Sure, people are always free to do that. But I like to trade at times. Even more often I just like to look at what is in there. Log only micros etc, just aren't the same for me. Kids in particular like to trade and many would have less interest if trading wasn't involved.

3.1k · February 10, 2004

Kids in particular like to trade and many would have less interest if trading wasn't involved.

We seldom trade but when we put caches out we usually put kid type of stuff in them anymore. Just because we know it makes caching easier for families.

I've known too many cachers who look to benefit themselves with trades. I got tired of it myself. Old dead horse.

February 10, 2004

This way all caches will be stocked with decent items...

Not sure I'm following the logic. You're saying the stuff in caches now is pretty lame. You're also suggesting that under the new system it would be OK for people to put stuff in that is worth even less as long as it's "decent." Except for the (very) occassional person who would put in something cool (which they can already do under the current system), it sounds like a fast downhill slide. Given the frequency with which people leave junk under the current trade-up system, I'm guessing that the common interpretation of "decent" under the free for all system would be pretty awful.

I haven't been caching very long, but I've already pretty much stopped expecting to trade items. I carry one cool item with me for trade, but three out of four times choose to TNLN as there is nothing there I would want (which is OK, because the fun for me is the hunt, no the cache contents). Maybe I'm missing the point, but it seems like under the new system the odds on cool items would go down even more.

Seems like the real problem is with how people value their items...

Edited February 10, 2004 by Karma Hunter

1.6k · February 10, 2004

I agree with Carleen's point.

Cool trade items are OK no matter what they actually cost. Non-cool items kind of stink even if they are pricey.

Golden rule applies to geocaching, leave something that you would want to find.

I do do some TNLN caches, some log only micros, but as mentioned above, these log only caches just aren't as much fun.

One suggestion. I cache with my niece on occasion. She tends to get the junk she gets at some fast food place and use these. I wonder if we made finding the trade items to start with, part of the geocaching game for kids, maybe we could start seeing fewer McToys and more real toys or cool trade items?

February 10, 2004

OK. Here's another way to go: request what you want and see how well it flies.
Here's my new cache: Nice Swag cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...47-51a935c17817

And what, may I ask is wrong with that idea? If they end up taking all the good swag and leaving crap, then I'll admit defeat and change the name of the cache. But I thought I'd give the local cachers a chance to show what they're made of. and I don't mean, show that they are made of money! Made of niceness, perhaps..

(bold type added)

But what is crap??

I have a few inexpensive plastic handled, colapsable cork screws in my swagger box. (I believe they probably have the name of some business imprinted on them). This item is durable, useful, and small enough to fit in most caches - and probably worth about 50 cents. I would consider it to be a decent item for a cache - and I would not necessarily consider it "crap". However, compared to the "Sterling Silver and Turquoise thunderbird necklace" that you left in your "Nice Swag Cache", it probably is crap! Now would you be upset if I left my cork screw and took your neclace? If you are then you are simply wanting to maintain the "Trade up or Trade Even" convention that most say they abide by. That is the convention that I would like to see changed.

1.3k · February 10, 2004

How about no trading at all. Just sign the stupid logbook and go buy yourself stuff you like.

That works for me too. I hardly ever trade, unless there's a Where's George bill inside.

7.3k · February 10, 2004

I take a fairly well stocked bag with me when I geocache. It has everything from (nice) cheapo stuff. on up to more expensive stuff. When I go to a cache, I evaluate what is there. If it is not stocked with very much, I try to put in something that an adult would like, and then several (nice) cheapy things that a kid would like. That way, I'm not out very much money, but I feel that I have helped the contents to look nicer and be more interesting.

There is also something to TNLN... I always traded when I first started, but now I only do it if I see something I like very much. But when you have little kids, it's almost impossible to not trade. You're breaking their little hearts to tell them no when there are all these goodies. YOU know they're cheap items, YOU know they have tons of these things in their rooms, but try telling THEM that.

February 10, 2004

OK. Here's another way to go: request what you want and see how well it flies.
Here's my new cache: Nice Swag cache

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...47-51a935c17817

And what, may I ask is wrong with that idea? If they end up taking all the good swag and leaving crap, then I'll admit defeat and change the name of the cache. But I thought I'd give the local cachers a chance to show what they're made of. and I don't mean, show that they are made of money! Made of niceness, perhaps..

(bold type added)

But what is crap??

I have a few inexpensive plastic handled, colapsable cork screws in my swagger box. (I believe they probably have the name of some business imprinted on them). This item is durable, useful, and small enough to fit in most caches - and probably worth about 50 cents. I would consider it to be a decent item for a cache - and I would not necessarily consider it "crap". However, compared to the "Sterling Silver and Turquoise thunderbird necklace" that you left in your "Nice Swag Cache", it probably is crap! Now would you be upset if I left my cork screw and took your neclace? If you are then you are simply wanting to maintain the "Trade up or Trade Even" convention that most say they abide by. That is the convention that I would like to see changed.

No, I don't think your cork screw is crap. I like wine!

It's a nice item, with a value of sorts. If the person leaving it considers it a proper 'thank you, cachers' item, that's the point, and it's fine with me.

7.3k · February 10, 2004

Geocaches are like garage sales. One man's junk is another man's treasure.

Every cache is different, sometimes you find something cool, sometimes you don't. Just be glad you found the Cache!

20.7k · February 10, 2004

When I first began to play this game, I would typically trade an item out of one cache and into the next. Pretty much a zero sum game. aof course, the average trink was a little container of playdoh, a mctoy, or a hot wheels car.

Currently, I either TNLN or TNLS. Sometimes, of course, I'll come across a trinket that I really want (or think my SO will want) and I'll trade it out.

My overall feeling about cache items in my caches is that they have no real value. Once I place an item in a cache, its gone. I could care less what people trade for it.

February 10, 2004

.....Maybe I'm missing the point, but it seems like under the new system the odds on cool items would go down even more......

Under the current system, I have little incentive to leave anything of substantial value in a cache. Many cachers will not have something of substantial value to trade, and the decent ones among them won't take my item for that reason. Therefor I am not inclined to take items with me that have much value. I thought about leaving something more expenseiv on my hundredth cache find (as kind of a commemoration) but thought why bother - its not doing any favour for anybody. It is proven that more blood is collected in a volunteer "donation" based system, than one where you get paid for it. I think something like that could happen here.

Edited February 10, 2004 by seneca

February 10, 2004

I believe in trade-up or trade even. However, I don't necessarily mean that trading up value-wise. If you take a cool or interesting item then trade something that is equally cool or interesting. Of course, cool and interesting are in the eye of the beholder. What I think is cool or interesting might be considered junk to someone else.

All I can say is be honest in your trading. If you take something that's neat or cool or interesting or whatever then don't leave junk for the next person who comes along.

There's my opinion, such as it is.

Happy caching and stuff! :blink:

February 10, 2004

I've got the perfect solution:

All geocachers should be required to submit potential cache items for review. Once the schwag-masters have approved them, each item is given a unique ID number, which must be affixed or written on the item before it can be placed into the cache. Non-tagged items will be required to be removed from any caches, and anyone caught placing them will be banned from the site.

Within a few years, we can move onto special RFID tags, which can be affixed to items. People will also be required to buy special RFID-scanning caches. Any attempt to place a non-RFID tagged item into a cache will result in the cache exploding in the cacher's face, causing severe bodily harm or, hopefully, death.

The tags will be available for a nominal fee of $5 each, and the caches a very reasonable $179 (replacement explosive packs are $29.95). These prices will come down as the production of the caches and tags is exported to India. Unfortunately this may result in occasional misfires of the caches when legitimate items are placed within them, but hey, that's the cost of doing business.

Edited February 10, 2004 by Indiana Cojones

24.7k · February 10, 2004

Trade even or trade up, fits on a bumper sticker. It summarizes reams and reams of philosophy on the subject and does ok.

It doesn't have to be perfect but it's close enough. To do any better would involve coming up with a long paragraph that pretty much says the same thing.

Or is that what you just did?

9.2k · February 10, 2004

I'd like to get rid of it too, but for a different reason - the phrase trade up means exactly the opposite of what people here are intending it to mean, and they look rather foolish when they misuse it that way.

When you "trade up", it means that you end a trade better off financially than when you started. If I take a $100 watch from a cache, and leave a broken McToy, then I have just traded up. Big time.

4.8k · February 10, 2004

It is proven that more blood is collected in a volunteer "donation" based system, than one where you get paid for it. I think something like that could happen here.

I know that in my area caches that were stocked nicely (which is not always expensively) to begin with have stayed stocked nicely the longest. Start a cache with a coupon and a rubberband in it and it will likely stay that way. Provide some nice items and the expectation that people try to leave appreciated items but not worry about value, and some will leave "decent" inexpensive items and a few will leave nicer than normal items, which keeps the cycle going. At least that has been my experience with two of my caches where I stocked them pretty well to start off with. One specifically states on the cache page that it is OK for trades to be unequal interms of monetary value. It just askes that people trade something they think another person would enjoy. Generally, those caches don't get broken toys and dirty golf balls put in them.

Edited February 10, 2004 by carleenp

February 10, 2004

I say just have 1 set item that everybody uses and you just attach your name to it. Kinda like geocaching trading cards. Try and collect all the cachers. But then I can see it now. "I'll trade you my double Sax man for your Sparky Watts" :blink:

February 10, 2004

Most of the caches I've come accross lately don't even have a pen to sign the log. I hate micros in the woods where a trade item cache could be instead. I say take what you like and put in something nice. Isn't that what it's about anyway? :blink:

February 10, 2004

Trade even or trade up, fits on a bumper sticker. It summarizes reams and reams of philosophy on the subject and does ok.

You are right. It summarizes the philosophy perfectly. I just don't like that "swap meet" philosophy for geocaching, and I think that it is indirectly responsible for the serious degradation that almost all caches suffer.

24.7k · February 10, 2004

Come to think of it. This rule isn't even a rule. It's just a generally accepted geocaching principal like "hide it like you found it".

You couldn't get rid of it if you tried. It still doesn't change the evolution of stuff from Cool to McCrap.

February 10, 2004

I can't believe everyone is ignoring my brilliantly witty post. :blink:

February 10, 2004

There is also something to TNLN... I always traded when I first started, but now I only do it if I see something I like very much.

and

I carry one cool item with me for trade, but three out of four times choose to TNLN as there is nothing there I would want

etc.

I probably said in the other thread, but will repeat because I like hearing myself type..

Trading doesn't have to be about things you want - it can just be about taking something for a little while and moving it to another cache. When you trade that way the "Something I Want" bar becomes set lower and you can have fun trading again. You aren't so much trading as just stirring the pot.

For example, at a recent cache I traded (well) for a homer simpson watch, just because. I still have it, but it's in the pack and at some point it'll go in a cache for some other stuff (again, just because). I liked it, but not enough to keep it. Sort of like dating...

February 10, 2004

Come to think of it. This rule isn't even a rule. It's just a generally accepted geocaching principal like "hide it like you found it".

You couldn't get rid of it if you tried. It still doesn't change the evolution of stuff from Cool to McCrap.

You are right, it is not a rule, that's why I referred to it as a convention (something that has become so customary through usage, that it starts getting treated like a rule). Conventions can be changed. Sometimes the changes start by discussion.

Edited February 10, 2004 by seneca

5.3k · February 10, 2004

There are way too many jerks in the world to expect that caches will remain "well stocked" forever. No matter how the "guidelines" or "rules" for trading are phrased, someone will screw it up.

I don't see the glass as half full.

I don't see the glass as half empty.

I'm just p|$$ed off that someone spilled half my beer.

February 10, 2004

I'd like to get rid of it too, but for a different reason - the phrase trade up means exactly the opposite of what people here are intending it to mean, and they look rather foolish when they misuse it that way.

When you "trade up", it means that you end a trade better off financially than when you started. If I take a $100 watch from a cache, and leave a broken McToy, then I have just traded up. Big time.

It has the meaning you refer to because it has in general usage been used from the perspective of what one is taking for trade. Ever since I have been Geocaching, the term "trade up" has always been used (certainly in this forum) to refer to what one is giving in trade. I don't think the usage of "trade up" in this context has ever caused any confusion.

Language changes through usage. A good example: Look up the word "Geocache" in the dictionary you have referred to - its not there!!

February 10, 2004

Just a few more things to think about: I recently cleaned out (as in cleaned, not stole) a cache in the woods, which had several broken toys. I bet they were fine toys when they were first placed there, but over time, they fell apart and were left there. Add this to what were probably nice (at one time) trading cards and other cardboard type items (which had gotten soggy and now resembled paper mache) and the contents were less than stellar. I removed the broken items, wiped out the contents and placed everything in a large baggie to protect them.

I am now taking the items I use for trade and have bagged each one in a zip lock bag. This way, if the contents do get wet (or should I say when, we do live in the Pacific NW) they are protected. Likewise, if a toy or item breaks, the bag is easily disposed of with out making the entire cache look like trash. I even took the McDonalds Gift Certificates I sometime leave and bagged them.

Also, I plan on taking out a couple of younger kids this weekend. I will be stopping at the dollar store (Ours have some cool stuff, especially for kids) and giving them each a couple of bucks to buy items they think are nice to trade. That way they won't have to start with an older or broken toy. A small investment on my part, but I want them to learn that this isn't the place to "get free stuff" and that's is important to leave something nice to surprise the next person. (No expired coupons, or coupons in general, and no broken McToys.)

February 10, 2004

Interesting.

Personally, I think that there should be a rule that no items be greater in value than a mctoy. This way, there will only be two types of items in caches. Perfectly fine little trinks and garbage that can be trashed-out.

i agree :blink:

February 10, 2004

...Also, I plan on taking out a couple of younger kids this weekend. I will be stopping at the dollar store (Ours have some cool stuff, especially for kids) and giving them each a couple of bucks to buy items they think are nice to trade. ...

Now what if you arrive at the cache, and some generous person has left a really cool handheld video game (perhaps with a retail value of $12.95). Don't you think that the person who left it would love to think about the looks on those kids faces, when they find that in the cache and are told they are allowed to take it in trade for the thoughtfull dollar store item they bought? Are you going to let them take it?

February 10, 2004

My philosophy is "make sure the cache has something cool in it before I leave". If it has something, great! If not, I will leave something.

February 10, 2004

...Also, I plan on taking out a couple of younger kids this weekend. I will be stopping at the dollar store (Ours have some cool stuff, especially for kids) and giving them each a couple of bucks to buy items they think are nice to trade. ...

Now what if you arrive at the cache, and some generous person has left a really cool handheld video game (perhaps with a retail value of $12.95). Don't you think that the person who left it would love to think about the looks on those kids faces, when they find that in the cache and are told they are allowed to take it in trade for the thoughtfull dollar store item they bought? Are you going to let them take it?

:blink: Actually, we are blessed. If that happened, we would leave it. It's an item easy enough for us to go and buy, after they do a little yard work for me to earn the money. If they decided to "throw a fit" about not getting the item, that's an easy fix too. No more fun day trips with Auntie Giz. I am believer in letting kids know the the rules and expectations. Again, I am blessed. I have yet to be disappointed.

February 10, 2004

My philosophy is "make sure the cache has something cool in it before I leave". If it has something, great! If not, I will leave something.

I like it!

1.3k · February 10, 2004

I can't believe everyone is ignoring my brilliantly witty post.

I thought it was hilarious. Seriously. :blink:

I almost ALWAYS trade at a cache. I don't do it because I think the stuff is cool, I just do it because it's fun. I put in something I had, and I get something that is new to me. The majority of the stuff I get when I trade ends up back in one of my caches anyway, so it all goes back out there to other cachers in the long run. I understand, and somewhat agree with TRADE EVEN OR TRADE UP, even though I would like to think that using the "DECENT" strategy would be good enough, because people are smart and nice enough not to trade unfairly. Unfortunately, this probably isn't true in many cases.

I usually use the same items for trade often, because I always go to the same store to get swag. I always have tons of interesting bouncy balls, like geodesic balls, and atom balls, and little toys and such. Since I am not really into caching for the toys, I would be happy enough to find any of these, because in essence, the swag isnt really for me. It is an ongoing trading, that slowly eats up all of my money. I buy a bag of swag, and trade until it's empty, then i put the leftovers into one of my caches, along with some cool FTF stuff, then I go spend more money on new swag.

I don't think people (and it seems like they don't) should stress about the stuff that's in caches. People always bash on McToys, which I don't really think are any worse than other little toys that go in caches. (I have never traded with a McToy, as I don't eat at McNasty's anyways, but I have often taken a McToy, for some other stuff) Some of the McToys can be kind of cool. I got a stuffed "Country Bear" out of one cache, that I thought was as cool as any other little stuffed animal.

Anyway, I think the trading will always be pretty similar. People will always make an attempt to trade fairly, and some people will put in the extra effort to trade something of actual value. Overall though, in the end, I think the cache will slowly "deteriorate" into lesser swag, until someone takes the initiative to add some cool stuff. It's nothing to worry about. As long as there are decks of cards, matchbox cars, little compasses that work, tiny flashlights, carabiners, etc. etc. etc., I think we will all be okay.

Edited February 10, 2004 by SBPhishy

February 10, 2004

...Actually, we are blessed. If that happened, we would leave it...

You are of course lucky, and you have good kids. But not letting them take the video game is one of the reasons why I might not be inclined to leave something of special value in a cache. When my daughter was young, I recall visiting an elderly person with her, and as we we leaving, he took out a $5.00 bill and wanted to give it to my daughter. My daughter looked up at me to see if it was alright to take it. The man was not a man of substantial means (and like you, I am also blessed) and my first and obvious inclination was to refuse to allow him to give it to my daughter. But then I realized he was only giving it to her to see the look on her face, and so that he could feel good about his little act of generosity. I let my daughter take the $5.00, and on the way home we talked about generosity and I think she understood.

February 10, 2004

I am in conflict with myself over this issue. On the one hand, I don't really care what's in the container. I often TNLN. That's not true. I always leave a Sacagawea dollar, if I have one on me, which is usually. Except once I think I left a Susan B. Anthony dollar. . . well anyway, not too long ago I saw a new hide in my area which I will not name, but the first thought that came to my mind was, "I'm going to take something nice to trade, and when I come back, my 4 year old son will think I'm a hero!"

I trudged through snow-laden prairie grass to get to this cache, a tough slog and at odds with its family-oriented name. When I found it, not only was the cache overrated on stars, it was full of JUNK! It was nothing more than a box full of McToys, and ugly, horrible ones at that. I was completely offended, right there out loud in the woods. I decided right then and there that this cache was NOT going to get my semi-collectible toy, and I put it in another cache I found that day. So as first finder, I TNLNSL, and I went away rather disgusted.

In retrospect, perhaps I was offended on behalf of my son, who expects to find something of a treasure. After all, he calls caches "treasures." It doesn't have to be expensive, but these plastic toys you get at fast food restaurants just don't cut the mustard.

The last really neat thing we found, just for reference, was a tiny magnetic checkers game, which my son really loves even though he has no idea how to play checkers. I bet this item was at most a buck. Surely two bucks, tops. Another big hit was a plastic kazoo, which still had a price tag on it, 5 for $1.

Edited February 10, 2004 by Balboagirl

February 10, 2004

I usaully sign the log and leave something "NICE", I only take something if it tickles my fancy. I like handmade or unique items, monetary value is of no concern to me. In the future I plan on leaving a geo poker chip in every cache I visit. These are not for anything except to say "I was here". I have come across several caches that were full of trash because people just don't care, I'd rather leave nothing.

February 11, 2004

.....I only take something if it tickles my fancy. I like handmade or unique items, monetary value is of no concern to me. In the future I plan on leaving a geo poker chip in every cache I visit. .....

If you find something in a cache that has obvious monetary value in the $10 - $20 range and it really "tickles your fancy" and you have your really cool "Geo Poker Chips" for trading, are you going to take the item that you like and leave a poker chip in trade? (If I had left the item that "tickled your fancy" I really wish that you would take it and feel good about it! )

Edited February 11, 2004 by seneca

February 11, 2004

Very interesting thread. Seneca’s concept of trading “decent” items for other “decent” items, regardless of value, is an intriguing philosophy and one that I can buy into wholeheartedly. However, I’m not so sure how that differs from “Trade Up Or Trade Even”. I think the assumption that some people make with the TUOTE concept is that the only measure of value is monetary and I believe that assumption is flawed. Seneca’s position of trading Decent-For-Decent is pretty much the same as TUOTE but using a different measure of value – a “decency denominator”. Once could also consider the “cool quotient”, “fun factor”, “collectable content” or some other measure of value when applying the TUOTE guideline. Regardless of the value system(s) one subscribes to, trading fairly should still the major guiding factor in how or if you trade. It is important to remember, though, that what you consider to be a fair trade may not be viewed that way by others and visa-versa. And if it isn’t that’s their problem and not yours.

I do like the concept of ensuring that a cache always has something cool in it when you leave it and that is generally the way I like to trade, although I usually end up taking nothing and leaving something. I also practise what I call, Cache In Crap Out (CICO). When I find a cache that is full of crap (used tickets, bottle caps, magazine shampoo samples, old printer ribbons, soggy matches, pocket lint, etc.) I take the crap and leave an equal number of, IMHO, cool and/or useful things.

_____________

Gorak

February 11, 2004

Sissy-n-CR used to say "Please trade kindly." and "Let those who behind you be as happy as you are." It made a lot of sense to me. Seneca’s concept seems to be saying basically the same thing, but with more words.

38.2k · February 11, 2004

I explained in the other thread that when I leave nice trade items, I do not expect a fair trade in terms of monetary value. All I ask is that the trader leave something they think another might enjoy. There are plenty of inexpensive items out that that other people will like and that is fair enough for me.

Carleen already said it for me. Nothing I can add to this but a big ditto.

February 11, 2004

Very interesting thread. Seneca’s concept of trading “decent” items for other “decent” items, regardless of value, is an intriguing philosophy and one that I can buy into wholeheartedly. However, I’m not so sure how that differs from “Trade Up Or Trade Even”.

I'm not sure you get my concept. My concept is - feel free to take the thing that you think is the very best thing in the cache (on whatever value scale you want to use) so long as you leave something decent. If you happen to be the first person to find the cache after a very generous person left a new FRS Radio, and you really like the radio, then take it, and leave a Canadian Flag shot glass in exchange. (I'm sure you would want to contact the generous person and thank him for his great prize) At a future date, you might be well inclined to leave something particularly great in a cache (maybe on your 500th find!). My concept is to encourage meaningful generosity. I think that it would add to the game, while overall improving cache contents.

Edited February 11, 2004 by seneca

February 11, 2004

Very interesting thread. Seneca’s concept of trading “decent” items for other “decent” items, regardless of value, is an intriguing philosophy and one that I can buy into wholeheartedly. However, I’m not so sure how that differs from “Trade Up Or Trade Even”.

I'm not sure you get my concept. My concept is - feel free to take the thing that you think is the very best thing in the cache (on whatever value scale you want to use) so long as you leave something decent.

Actually, I grok exactly what you are saying. I'm suggesting that all you are proposing is using a value system other than the almight dollar to base your trades on. And I agree with you.

____________

Gorak

February 11, 2004

I agree that it should be a trade for equal or greator tradeableness rather than equal or greater $$

3.5k · February 11, 2004

Geocaches are like garage sales. One man's junk is another man's treasure.

Every cache is different, sometimes you find something cool, sometimes you don't. Just be glad you found the Cache!

BINGO! This guy got it!

Personally I enjoy trading up. I leave with a sense of personal satisfaction when the cache is richer than when I came. Maybe that's just me.

I think the only other answer is to have a "Cash Cache," fill it with bills and coins and then everyone makes even change. If you leave 3 quarters, 2 dimes and a nickel, you're allowed to take a buck. That way everything's nice and even.

Bret

Let's Get Rid Of "trade Even Or Trade Up"

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