+E = Mc2 Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 Came across this eBay auction the other day and sent an email to the PTB. No response as yet, so I thought I'd post it to ya'll. Does it, in your opinion, violate the useage agreement for the Geocaching logo? If so, I gotta get one before they have to pull it... In other eBay news, someone paid $4.50 plus #3.85 shipping for 50 empty film canisters. After getting a pickle bucket full of them from Meijer for free... Wow. I'm in the wrong business!
+Team GPSaxophone Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 The logo guidelines are quite clear that you may not use the logo for commercial purposes. I's recommend sending an email to TPTB. Interesting note: The seller claims to be from the "Rio Grande Valley". I wonder if he means New Mexico or Texas. I would assume he means Albuquerque, I'll check my local phonebook and see if I can find the company.
+Team GPSaxophone Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 According to their Ebay Store, they are in South Texas.
+Team Flashncache Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 Plain and simple - Yes. This is a classic example of copyright infringement. Bear in mind that I'm no lawyer, but duh! Unless the seller has the "Expressed Written Consent" to use the logo, then he or she is hosed!
+Team GPSaxophone Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 Came across this eBay auction the other day and sent an email to the PTB. No response as yet, so I thought I'd post it to ya'll. Did you send the email to logo@Groundspeak.com? If you sent it to one of e other addresses (like contact@) it might take longer for them to take action.
+CYBret Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 G.P.S. International University What kind of two-bit institution is that?!?! Bret P.S. Oh...by the way..be sure to check out my new website.
+Team Flashncache Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 However; upon reflection I find that being a "Dr. of Geocaching" wouldn't really sound too bad in my signature line. Just call me "Dr. Dave", thanks... Dave of Team Flashncache Holder of the coveted Doctorate of Geocaching degree
+Renegade Knight Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 It could be infringment, or they could have arleady recieved permission. The email to Groundspeak has it covered.
+robert Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 P.S. Oh...by the way..be sure to check out my new website. Nice job, CYBret. I'll be sure to bookmark it.
+aka Monkey Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 (edited) Even though the logo is screened lightly into the background and is used more as a "visual element" than anything else, it's still an infringement. And, unfortunately, once Groundspeak is aware of the infringement (assuming that's what it is) they are obligated by law to pursue it, or else they could lose all of their protections. Yet another system designed by lawyers to perpetuate the use of lawyers. Edited February 8, 2004 by Indiana Cojones
+Touchstone Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 Yeesh! There's one bid on that two bit print job. Hard to believe someone would bid on an item it would take me five minutes to make on my printer P.T. Barnum must be right: "there's a sucker born every minute". Nice website Cybret
+welch Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 Yea it probably violates a copyright or something. On the film tubes, Isn't there a bussiness saying like "buy cheap and sell high"?
+Webfoot Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 P.S. Oh...by the way..be sure to check out my new website. Thanks CyBret. Very cool pages. If and when I get a Palm, I'll definitely use those instructions for paperless caches.
+CYBret Posted February 8, 2004 Posted February 8, 2004 Sorry to get off topic, but I want to offer a big "THANK YOU" to everyone who's enjoyed my webpage. I'm glad you've found it helpful, informative, or just fun. You all make my day! Bret
+IV_Warrior Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 Came across this eBay auction the other day and sent an email to the PTB. No response as yet, so I thought I'd post it to ya'll. Does it, in your opinion, violate the useage agreement for the Geocaching logo? If so, I gotta get one before they have to pull it... In other eBay news, someone paid $4.50 plus #3.85 shipping for 50 empty film canisters. After getting a pickle bucket full of them from Meijer for free... Wow. I'm in the wrong business! Was it film cannisters, aka what you use for microcaches, or cartridges, as in the part you actually put into the camera? I saw cartridges on sale on ebay before.... Oh yeah, and the other thing likely is a copyright infringement.
+hikemeister Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 This is nuts -- what kind of idiot would buy something like that! As for the film cannisters, I must be rich -- I have bags of them (all free from WalMart and Walgreens, which I regularly visit to collect them) -- we make CITO containers out of them, and dispense them for free from a local cache (C.I.T.O. South Florida) and at Geocaching events. I thought this all was just supposed to be fun -- not a way to make a profit (well except for GC.com, of course, who profits from all of us logging onto this site so often that it helps them generate good adv revenue......wait, that's another topic.
+JMBella Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 (edited) Forget the copyright infringement, the thing is lame. Any bozo with a graphic design program can do that. They didn't even do a good job. lame, lame, lame. edit off topic: Nice web page CyBret. Enjoyed the stories. I didn't know you were so spiritual. Edited February 9, 2004 by JMBella
+Perfect Tommy Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 Actually, its both copyright and trademark infringement. But only of the logo. I don't believe Groundspeak owns the rights to the term "Geocaching" yet. TPTB should look into eBay's Verified Rights Owners program to shut these auctions down (without having to use a lawyer).
+Team GPSaxophone Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 This is nuts -- what kind of idiot would buy something like that! As for the film cannisters, I must be rich -- I have bags of them (all free from WalMart and Walgreens, which I regularly visit to collect them) -- we make CITO containers out of them, and dispense them for free from a local cache (C.I.T.O. South Florida) and at Geocaching events. I thought this all was just supposed to be fun -- not a way to make a profit (well except for GC.com, of course, who profits from all of us logging onto this site so often that it helps them generate good adv revenue......wait, that's another topic. I bought several of them to be used as frst finder's prizes. Then I realized not everyone will want a diploma without their own name on it. I was shocked that no one else wanted a "Sax Man" degree! * I'm just kidding. I wouldn't waste my money on that ****
+CYBret Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 edit off topic: Nice web page CyBret. Enjoyed the stories. I didn't know you were so spiritual. Occupational hazard. Bret
+E = Mc2 Posted February 9, 2004 Author Posted February 9, 2004 (edited) Whew, I go caching and come home to this! To answer some of the questions that have been posed in my absence: Yes, I sent it to 'logo@ ...' Yes, the auction was for empty film canisters. The same person has listed some more. I just did a search for "Geocaching" and they came up. I've been quick to link to CYBret's page on paperless here in the forums, myself. I, too, owe a heartfelt Thank You to Cybret for making the process so easy for me. Edited fro speeling Edited February 9, 2004 by emccoyii
Swagger Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 Actually, its both copyright and trademark infringement. But only of the logo. I don't believe Groundspeak owns the rights to the term "Geocaching" yet. TPTB should look into eBay's Verified Rights Owners program to shut these auctions down (without having to use a lawyer). Typed DrawingWord Mark GEOCACHING Goods and Services IC 041. US 100 101 107. G & S: Providing on-line information for a GPS based treasure hunting game. FIRST USE: 20000801. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20000801 IC 025. US 022 039. G & S: Clothing, namely shirts, hats, vests, jackets, shoes and pants. FIRST USE: 20000801. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 20010126 Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 78045228 Filing Date January 26, 2001 Current Filing Basis 1A Original Filing Basis 1A Supplemental Register Date February 20, 2002 Registration Number 2619174 Registration Date September 10, 2002 Owner (REGISTRANT) GROUNDED INC. CORPORATION WASHINGTON 2111 3RD AVENUE WEST SEATTLE WASHINGTON 98119 Type of Mark TRADEMARK. SERVICE MARK Register SUPPLEMENTAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE Typed DrawingWord Mark GEOCACHING Goods and Services IC 016. US 002 005 022 023 029 037 038 050. G & S: printed materials, namely, books about GPS based activities Mark Drawing Code (1) TYPED DRAWING Serial Number 76537891 Filing Date August 15, 2003 Current Filing Basis 1B Original Filing Basis 1B Owner (APPLICANT) Morris Book Publishing, LLC LTD LIAB CO GEORGIA 725 Broad Street Augusta GEORGIA 30901 Attorney of Record Timothy E. Moses Type of Mark TRADEMARK Register PRINCIPAL Live/Dead Indicator LIVE May be an infringement against the "printed materials" trademark, which has not yet been granted. I also question the validity of Groundspeak's trademark based on the prior art argument. I'm not a lawyer, however...
+seneca Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 (edited) ...And, unfortunately, once Groundspeak is aware of the infringement (assuming that's what it is) they are obligated by law to pursue it, or else they could lose all of their protections. Yet another system designed by lawyers to perpetuate the use of lawyers. .... I doubt it. Thankfully, government and people create enough work for lawyers without us having to go an fabricating any in this manner. Edited February 9, 2004 by seneca
+Halden Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 G.P.S. International University What kind of two-bit institution is that?!?! Bret P.S. Oh...by the way..be sure to check out my new website. WHere do I apply?
+Halden Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 Yet another system designed by lawyers to perpetuate the use of lawyers. How to you help a drowning lawyer? Take your foot off his head.
+Perfect Tommy Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 The key word in the information provided by Cruzin on Groundspeak's registration for the term GEOCACHING is the term "SUPPLEMENTAL" which some courts have construed to be effectively an admission that the term is descriptive of the goods and services covered by the registration. Being on the Supplemental Register, the registration does not enjoy any of the evidentiary presumptions conferred by the trademark law for marks on the Principal Register. Groundspeak can attempt to convert that Supplemental registration to a Principal registration after five years of continuous and exclusive use. Even with a registration, however, Groundspeak would be hard-pressed to get a judge to enforce its rights in the term "Geocaching" particularly in light of the many third party uses out in the relevant market. Even if they keep trying to build equity in the brand "Geocaching", a court may nevertheless cancel the registration and find it to be generic and free for all to use. This probability explains why the logo is used as a primary identifier. As for the second reference, I would be surprised if the Patent and Trademark Office allowed that application through to registation. Titles of books, particularly those reflecting their subject matter, usually are refused registration. As to "prior art" - Cruzin is using a term of art used in connection with patent infringement cases. However, as he divined, third party uses of "Geocaching" are relevant in any infringement analysis. I am sure Groundspeak is aware that others use the term "Geocaching" to describe the sport (and not Groundspeak's goods and services). What they are going to do about it is another question.
AJK Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 Isn't the issue the use of the logo rather than the use of the name??
boreal jeff & sons Posted February 9, 2004 Posted February 9, 2004 What do you do if you see a lawyer stumbling around in your back yard, bleeding? Shoot him again!
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