How Many Benchmark Hunters Here...

[+sprocketman927]

I know this topic has probably been brought up before, but I couldn't come up with a good thread by doing a search so I thought I'd pose my ponderings to the experts in this forum.

 

The reason I ask the NGS logging question is, until this weekend, I had never found a 'missing' benchmark GA1270. This got me to wondering about a couple of things...

 

1. Should I log it with the NGS so they'll know it's missing?

2. Will the remaining pin be good enough for surveying, etc.?

3. Does the NGS have plans to replace missing disks?

 

I appreciate any insight that might be offered. I haven't found a ton of disks (as is evident by my profile), but the ones I have found have been in really good condition and, in some cases, reset when something such as a bridge, etc. has been changed or built.

[+California Bear]

I log all my finds with the NGS as most of the time they haven't had a logged recovery since the 60s. I figure that if the NGS willingly accepts finds from the US Power Squadron, an non-Governmental hobbyist orginization who most likely don't have any surveyor training, as officially recognized enough to have their own special checkbox on the Recovery page, I can't do much worse than they can.

 

As for reporting a benchmark as missing, I have only done so four times. In the first case, the described location met all the criteria, but there was no disk, yet there was evidence of the disk having been there. I found a disk sized hole in the top of the rock with dried epoxy and a bolt inside of it. DX4449

 

The other three were structures on a Navy Base. I contacted the Public Affairs Office for the base and they confirmed that two of the structures had been destroyed and the third had the top removed (which was the benchmark point) and the tower was soon too be taken down. When I logged these as missing with the NGS, I included the contact information for the person I contacted on the base. These marks were : DY2607, DY2620 and DY2645.

 

While there have been several benchmarks I have not been able to find, I will not log one with the NGS as not found unless I have incontrovertible proof that I was absolutely looking in the correct spot. More than once, I have looked for a mark and not found it only to stumble across it later while looking for another one.

 

PS: The NGS does appreciate any research done when recovering a mark. When I reported the Navy Base marks as destroyed via e-mail, I received an e-mail from Deb Brown of the NGS thanking me for my diligence in researching the status of those marks.

Edited February 4, 2004 by California Bear

[+GeckoGeek]

To answer the subject - yes, I do. But only if there's a change in status, directions, or the last entry is over 10 years old.

 

Should I log it with the NGS so they'll know it's missing?

Sure. Log it as a not found and say what you did find. Since you haven't found the disk itself, it can't be reported destroyed, but at least you can let others know what to expect and decide for themselves if it's usable.

[RACooper]

I'm no expert, but I do log with NGS occasionally when the condition of a disk or the "to find" description has radically changed since the last official report. Keep in mind that GC.com's NGS sheets are several years old, and will not have any updates since (I think) 2000 or '99.

 

Check my log on AW5445 for an example of my logging to both GC and NGS. I will usually copy my NGS report at the end of my GC.com log entry.

 

BTW, does anyone have the full URL to directly query the NGS database? I mean the one where I can say (for example) www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_pid.prl?PID=AW5445 or something like that? I used to have this info somewhere, but I can't find it now. I believe someone (BeachBum22?) has direct queries on his site http://www.benchmarkhunting.com/, but I don't know the URL he uses to query the NGS.

[+Zhanna]

BTW, does anyone have the full URL to directly query the NGS database?

I believe this is what you want:

 

http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=LZ1847

 

(Replace LZ1847 with the PID of your choice, of course.)

 

~Zhanna

[+JoGPS]

I don‘t am I a bad person, Heee Heee……………JOE

[+dino_hunters]

Only logged 1 with the NGS so far. It was last recovered in 1896, but now long gone.

 

I Think GekoGeek is right:

 

"only if there's a change in status, directions, or the last entry is over 10 years old.'

[+chaosmanor]

That's a good rule-of-thumb, and one that I hold to. If it's been a decade or more since the last entry, it good to post a "found", just so the NGS knows it is still there. And if anything substantive has changed, then the NGS will want to know, so that if they ever need to find it, they'll save some time, which is our (taxpayer) money And by "substantive", I mean anything from a utility pole that isn't there anymore, to a street name that has been changed, to the To Reach directions being terribly out-dated. All of these, and many others of a similar ilk, should be reported.

[ArtMan]

... And if anything substantive has changed, then the NGS will want to know, so that if they ever need to find it, they'll save some time, which is our (taxpayer) money   ...

Actually, if I'm not mistaken, it's not the NGS that will be helped. The NGS maintains the database for the benefit of the user community, which may include private land surveyors and government entities of various flavors. I suspect (though I don't really have any basis for assuming this, other than instinct) that the vast majority of users of these benchmarks are in the private sector.

 

-ArtMan-

[Mark from Careywood]

And if anything substantive has changed, then the NGS will want to know, so that if they ever need to find it, they'll save some time, which is our (taxpayer) money  And by "substantive", I mean anything from a utility pole that isn't there anymore, to a street name that has been changed, to the To Reach directions being terribly out-dated.

 

Has anybody observed their reports to NGS being incorporated into the NGS database, yet?

[RACooper]

Yep! I've had a few show up on the county (monthly?) updates, and my updates do appear when looking up the individual datasheets. Hopefully, the information will help someone in the future!

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Yep me too.

[+Rich in NEPA]

Zhanna takes very good care of reporting all of the stations that we recover either together or individually. So far she has submitted 46 official NGS recovery reports and all of the datasheets have been updated accordingly.

 

Cheers ...

[+Colorado Papa]

Has anybody observed their reports to NGS being incorporated into the NGS database, yet?

 

Doggone right, NGS includes our info. And they appreciate it even less than 10 years. Direct quote from this NGS`datasheet:

 

AB0711 STATION RECOVERY (2004)

AB0711

AB0711'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 2004 (TS)

AB0711'THIS STATION WAS RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION BY TED STATLER. IGNORE

AB0711'PREVIOUS DESTROYED REPORT.

[Wintertime]

To answer the subject - yes, I do.  But only if there's a change in status, directions, or the last entry is over 10 years old.

Would "change in directions" include updating the name of a nearby building? I've run into several instances where a building has changed hands since the last official recovery report. Granted, if one follows the instructions, the change will probably be obvious. But wouldn't it be faster to let everyone know to look for the ABC Company instead of the XYZ Company? Would that be a good thing to file with the NGS?

 

That brings up a related question. Does anyone know why NGS rarely uses street addresses in its descriptions? Over the decades, a building may change owners (and thus its identifying name on the outside) many times, but its street address is unlikely to change. Seems to me that having the address would make things a lot easier for anyone trying to get their bearings.

[ArtMan]

Would "change in directions" include updating the name of a nearby building? ... Does anyone know why NGS rarely uses street addresses in its descriptions?

I provide updated building data all the time in my NGS reports. I usually also add street addresses, where applicable. Also, streets are often renamed and highways renumbered. This, too, is useful information, I would think.

 

-ArtMan-