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Letterboxing Is More Environmentally Friendly Than


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Perhaps the biggest lesson I learned in a year and 200 cache finds is that extensive bushwhacking is usually unnecessary as most caches are accessible by marked trails up to the last 50 feet or so. The problem is that many times this is not noted on the cache page and it results in needless bushwhacking.

 

The "off trail" issue is a biggie in some areas and many people seem to believe that geocaching causes a lot of environmental “damage”. In principle, I disagree with that notion as the "damage" caused by trampling of vegetation is unsightly and temporary at worst. No more damage is caused than that of a couple of deer in the park who tend to use their same trails frequently.

 

In our society, the same people who consider man no more than an animal evolved to a "higher" state, for some reason do not consider the consequences of his actions to be "natural"- even when those actions do not involve any technology other than his natural evolution has provided.

 

This being said, I propose a hypothesis that letterboxing is more environmentally friendly than geocaching because the hider has more control over where the seekers will go in trampling the woods in search of their quarry.

 

A case in point:

 

Saturday I found my 200th cache and, to make it special, I picked an easy cache where I could likely be first finder. I accomplished my mission, but I went in the “back door”. The hider had intended that seekers take a tour of the historical areas of the town, which would culminate in a cache. I missed the whole point of the cache (from the owner’s perspective), but I got what I wanted out of it. (The cache page instruction was very good, I chose to ignore it. This post is not intended to criticize this cache in any way.)

 

I am a techno geek, as I’m sure, are many who play this game. Therefore, I plotted the cache on Topo USA and noted that it was within 100’ of a road. It was a simple matter to pull off the side of the road, walk 100’ into the woods, find the cache; sign the book and claim find #200 and FTF #11. (I probably did no more or no less “damage” than would have occurred with the intended route, but that is not usually the case with “back doors” which is the point of this post.)

 

I believe geocachers are inherently “back door” people who will take shortcuts whenever they can. (debate invited)

 

This is my point with geocaching versus letterboxing. In geocaching a person has a pointer to the cache as the crow flies. Also, being techno geeks, we tend to use high tech resources like topo maps and satellite photos to scout out the area and locate “the door” before departing on the hunt. Further, especially among newbies, there is, a tendency to bushwhack, not knowing that the trail would get them within spitting distance of the cache.

 

The letterboxer has much more control over where the seeker goes, since the instructions generally won’t make much sense if one goes in the “back door”.

 

In the interest of minimizing the “damage” and keeping those people happy who do not accept a human being in the woods as “natural” (many of whom are “in power” and make decisions as to whether geocaching can continue in THEIR parks), I humbly propose that geocaching be banned altogether.

 

Or, if we must continue to exist, destroyers of nature that we are, we need to be careful to post on our cache pages that you can find this cache by staying on trail # X until you get within X feet of the cache. Perhaps a little more instruction on the cache page as to where the “front door” is would be helpful also- especially if the “back door” is going to offend someone who thinks people aren’t part of nature.

 

There we have it, a high roundhouse kick right smack in the middle of the hornets’ nest and now I’ll just sit back at a safe distance and watch the action. :D

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I read his post last night before I went to bed, and chose to think about it awhile rather than respond right away. Needless to say, I didn't get a bit of sleep last night.

 

What have I done? I am in shock that my irresponsible actions in placing caches has resulted in newbies and experienced cachers alike to crash through the wilderness destroying possible rare flora in pursuit of my cache.

 

And what's worse, I know that I, myself haave done the same thing while searching for caches. I have trampled countless plants, and stomped on I don't know how much brush.

 

I am depressed. I have sinned against nature and must now accept the consequences. I will be archiving all my caches and deleting all my find logs. Geocaching is truely an aberration against nature and I cannot be a part of it.

 

What you are all doing is evil and I can no longer be a part of it.

 

Goodbye.

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All the letterboxers are forced to take pretty much the same path, which is more likely to cause damage by destroying vegetation, and worse, compacting the soil (Break a few twigs, no real harm. Stomp on a few plants, they grow back. But if you compact the soil, that totally changes things and can cause erosion and allow invasive, and/or non-native plant species to take root.

 

Since geocachers often come from different directions (e.g. your "backdoor") and the units have a built in EPE, this makes it unlikely that any two geocachers will take the exact same route. This spreads out impact and allows the area time to recover. The further off the trail the cache is, the more truth there is to this.

 

Therefore it could be argued that geocaching is more environmentally friendly than letterboxing and placing the cache far off the trail is the most environmentally friendly method of cache placement.

Edited by briansnat
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Wow, that's more than one hornet's nest--that's several! Generalizing atheists, marginalizing environmentalists, saying boxing is better than caching, not following placer's instructions, calling geocaching "gay" or geocachers gay (I'm not sure which), cheaters (or maybe it's gay cheaters), calling us geeks, and more!

 

~sheesh~ I think someone needs to chill. :D

 

:D

 

CR

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"The letterboxer has much more control over where the seeker goes, since the instructions generally won’t make much sense if one goes in the “back door”."

 

Doesn't this mean you think all caches should be made multicaches? (instead of just prohibited) Then any visitors are under 'your control', at least at whatever number of caches and waypoints you used. Of course, they could just cut cross country between each point, there is really no way to stop that... Your a case in point.

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All the letterboxers are forced to take pretty much the same path, which is more likely to cause damage by destroying vegetation, and worse, compacting the soil (Break a few twigs, no real harm. Stomp on a few plants, they grow back. But if you compact the soil, that totally changes things and can cause erosion and allow invasive, or non-native species to take root.

 

Since geocachers often come from different directions (e.g. your "backdoor") and the units have a built in EPE, this makes it unlikely that any two geocachers will take the exact same route. This spreads out impact and allows the area time to recover. The further off the trail the cache is, the more this is true.

 

Therefore it could be argued that geocaching is more environmentally friendly than letterboxing and placing the cache far off the trail is the most environmentally friendly method of cache placement.

What 'Snat said!

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Wow, that's more than one hornet's nest--that's several!  Generalizing atheists, marginalizing environmentalists, saying boxing is better than caching, not following placer's instructions, calling geocaching "gay" or geocachers gay (I'm not sure which), cheaters (or maybe it's gay cheaters), calling us geeks, and more!

 

~sheesh~  I think someone needs to chill.  :D

 

:D

 

CR

Gay?

 

I'm confused. I did a word search on the text and didn't find "gay" in it. I didn't think I wrote "gay".

 

Huh?

 

Good job Brian Snat!

Edited by ChurchCampDave
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If the starter of this thread is serious (I have a little trouble accepting that) then he is addressing a problem that I do not believe exists. There is nothing intrinsically environmentally unfriendly about Geocaching. The vast majority of the caches that I have found are hidden in thick wooded areas, and I have yet to cause any environmental damage. There is never any need to cause environmental damage while Geocaching. For those few idiots who do --- well that's got nothing to do with Geocaching and everything to do with being an idiot. Those same idiots can cause as much damage Geocaching, as they can cause letterboxing, or by simply taking a walk in the woods. They usually prefer to choose a more destructive pastime. Respect for our environment is what is needed - Geocachers as a whole seem to have, and encourage a lot of respect in that regard.

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Gay?

 

I'm confused.  I did a word search on the text and didn't find "gay" in it.  I didn't think I wrote "gay".

Yeah, that's what you were referring to when you said "...geocachers are inherently 'back door' people...", right?

 

No? Oops! My bad! :D

 

CR

 

DISCLAIMER: I'm not homophobic or bigoted against homosexuals is any way. Please don't warn me!

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I can't speak on other areas, but in Florida, the vegetation grows so fast, it would be very difficult to cause real damage. Even with bushwacking, give it a week or two and you would never be able to tell the difference. The only lasting proof of bushwacking is the scars on my arms and legs!! :D

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:D Ban Geocaching because we destroy the vegetation? Letter boxing is more environmentally safe because it has more precise instructions to finding the cache? Are you asking to be flamed? Before we ban this sport, let's examine some issues first.

 

#1 Letter boxing is more Enviromentally friendly? That's a good one .. Man has been destroying the enviornment long before geocaching. I.e. Strip Mining, Logging, Nuclear Bomb testing, river contamination and the list goes on. In fact we have done far more harm to the environment with the introduction of non-native wildlife to our country than we could ever possibly do with geocaching.

 

#2 Personally, I think it's a lot more fun than letter boxing, and honestly, there just aren't enough of them in the us to make it worth my time to hunt.

 

#3 By your own words, you are a hypocrite :D -- You say ban geocaching because it harms the environment. Yet you yourself still geocache and you admit to bushwacking for a cache. As Jesus said in Matthew 7:1 - 5

Judge not, that you not be judged.For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use it will be measured back to you. and why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye'; and look a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.

 

:D Face it, Geocaching is here to stay and it is a lot more popular than letterboxing. You are not going to change this, and geocaching will never be banned. Cache Owners on the other hand maybe need to be a little bit more detailed on the instructions to their caches. I know in my area, if you have to get off the trail, the ower tells you this. But if the cache is in an evironmentally instable area, the cache owner tells you not to get off the path. But don't go trying to ban a sport simply because of a few bad brushes with nature.

Edited by The_Brownies
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:D Ban Geocaching because we destroy the vegetation? Letter boxing is more environmentally safe because it has more precise instructions to finding the cache? Are you asking to be flamed? Before we ban this sport, let's examine some issues first.

 

#1 Man has been destroying the enviornment long before geocaching. I.e. Strip Mining, Logging, Nuclear Bomb testing, river contamination and the list goes on. Finally we are starting to realize that just what we are doing does have cause and effect and we are starting to do something about our environment. However, 3rd world nations don't seem to get this and they are ruining their part of the world.

 

#2 Geocaching brings money to the local economy in the form of Hotel reservations, food, gas, etc. Whenever you go caching in an area and you need some munchies where do you go?

 

#3 By your own words, you are a hypocrite  :D -- You say ban geocaching because it harms the environment. Yet you yourself still geocache and you admit to bushwacking for a cache. As Jesus said in Matthew 7:1 - 5

Judge not, that you not be judged.For with what judgement you judge, you will be judged; and with the same measure you use it will be measured back to you. and why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother 'Let me remove the speck out of your eye'; and look a plank is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.

 

#4 What would you have your kids out doing? Hmm I personally love having them go to the mall and shop.. Nothing better to do on a nice sunny day. NOT!!!.. It's a great time for the entire family to get out and do something and go somewhere that they have never been to before. It's a lot better then having them waste thier day sitting in front of the mind numbing tv or the brainless computer.

 

:D Face it, Geocaching is here to stay. You are not going to change it, and it will never be banned. Cache Owners on the other hand maybe need to be a little bit more detailed on the instructions to their caches. I know in my area, if you have to get off the trail, the ower tells you this. But if the cache is in an evironmentally instable area, the cache owner tells you not to get off the path. But don't go trying to ban a sport simply because of a few bad brushes with nature.

Have you really been a member since March '02? 150 posts shows some degree of forum participation, and you still can't tell when one of the regulars is just bored and stirring up the pot? Wow.

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Have you really been a member since March '02? 150 posts shows some degree of forum participation, and you still can't tell when one of the regulars is just bored and stirring up the pot? Wow.

Har. I saw this come up last night and I was waiting to see how long it would take somebody to take the bait.

 

If this were Slashdot, the original post would have gotten a "-1: Troll" a long time ago...

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read his post last night before I went to bed, and chose to think about it awhile rather than respond right away. Needless to say, I didn't get a bit of sleep last night.

 

I saw it last night too, didn't feel like playing with hornets, and slept just fine because I am not at all worried about it. Basically I like what BrianSnat and Seneca said.

 

Of course maybe you were up all night for other reasons. :D

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Should have went with my instincts on this one.. Smelled kind of funny but I took the bait, hook line and sinker.. -- I have recently just started haunting the forums because things have been slow here at the office..

 

Can't reply too quickly without reading carefully. All we who are gullible get caught sooner or later.

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To paraphrase Jefferson, a little bloodletting from time to time is good for geocaching and in that vein, you have some really good points. I agree with you, let's ban geocaching. And man, while we're at it!

 

To prove my point, it'll do to recall the words of the most erudite Agent Smith of 'Matrix' fame (the first one, the rest suck):

 

Agent Smith: I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure.

 

I will hereby start the crusade. "Honey, where's my arsenic-laced chocomalt?"

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I read his post last night before I went to bed, and chose to think about it awhile rather than respond right away. Needless to say, I didn't get a bit of sleep last night.

 

What have I done? I am in shock that my irresponsible actions in placing caches has resulted in newbies and experienced cachers alike to crash through the wilderness destroying possible rare flora in pursuit of my cache.

 

And what's worse, I know that I, myself haave done the same thing while searching for caches. I have trampled countless plants, and stomped on I don't know how much brush.

 

I am depressed. I have sinned against nature and must now accept the consequences. I will be archiving all my caches and deleting all my find logs. Geocaching is truely an aberration against nature and I cannot be a part of it.

 

What you are all doing is evil and I can no longer be a part of it.

 

Goodbye.

Looks like Renagade Knight's "suicide" thread is paying real dividends.

You have learned well grasshopper.

 

Edit: ' makes all the difference

Edited by rusty_tlc
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I had to look twice at who posted this I thought it was Lessenergy at it again.

Halden.

 

So this is twice is just a couple of days that you have gone out of your way to mentioned me in threads. The other being the sock puppet thread.

 

And I guess I'll also mention you gleefully insulting me on the Canada forum thread when I was misquoted by The 2 Navigators.

 

And yet no one seems to want to join in your bashing. I am flattered that you think I am important enough to bring up so often but really it is not necessary. I don't think I am that important to these boards so I don't understand why you should.

 

And for what it's worth. I don't care if anyone letterboxes or geocaches or digs holes the size of football stadiums. I won't object to any of it - provided the land manager agrees that you can do it.

 

Les.

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(CurlyKrakow @ Feb 4 2004, 10:01 AM)

Have you really been a member since March '02? 150 posts shows some degree of forum participation, and you still can't tell when one of the regulars is just bored and stirring up the pot? Wow. Exactly.

And this isn't CCD's first "hey everybody look at me" post, either. 

 

:blink: As Scotty once said.. "Fool me once Shame on you .. Fool me twice shame on me.." I have no idea who CCD was, and since I am rather new to this forum game.. I went against my better judgement of just passing this by.. but I took the bait. Kind of like fishing... You doctor up your bait and wait for the fish to hit. CCD got a whopper on this one, and I'll admit it. So let's stop beating a dead horse as happens with so many of these threads and get on to bigger and better things like " do you wear boxers or briefs when geocaching?"

Edited by The_Brownies
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Well now. It's all relative. If we were caching on the moon our footprints would stay. Hell they will probably still be there when the human race is gone. When we are gone it won't be geocachign that did us in.

 

What does this have to do wtih anything? Nothing really. There are less letter boxers than cachers. Do they have less impact? Probably. Does it matter? No.

 

Opencaching has less impact than anything because no caches are listed yet. Hows that for low impact caching (why does this sound like aerobics?)

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What does this have to do wtih anything? Nothing really. There are less letter boxers than cachers. Do they have less impact? Probably.

 

Actually because there are fewer letterboxers and far fewer letterboxes, the letterboxes seem to get hit as aften as geocaches. The ones I've found have had 20, 30 or more stamped pages in them. Because there are so few boxes, when one is planted, people seem to come from all over creation to find it. Kind of like in the early days of geocaching.

 

Now, there are so many geocaches out there (at least in my area), that even a new cache can go several days before the FTF and weeks between subsequent finds.

Edited by briansnat
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QUOTE (The_Brownies @ Feb 4 2004, 11:43 AM)

As Scotty once said.. "Fool me once Shame on you .. Fool me twice shame on me.." 

 

Which episode was that? I seem to remember Scotty sitting in the Captain's seat on the bridge while Kirk and a sacrificial landing party were stuck down on some planet. Just ... can't ... remember ... the ... episode .

 

Episode 32

Edited by Hogarth
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QUOTE (The_Brownies @ Feb 4 2004, 11:43 AM)

As Scotty once said.. "Fool me once Shame on you .. Fool me twice shame on me.." 

 

Which episode was that? I seem to remember Scotty sitting in the Captain's seat on the bridge while Kirk and a sacrificial landing party were stuck down on some planet. Just ... can't ... remember ... the ... episode .

 

Episode 32

That's it! Kirk gets bit by the Mugatoo and is cured by Eleen, who looked rather fetching in the tight rag costume. Scott is at the com with the Enterprise trying to hide from the Klingons. Classic Trek. Thanks Hogarth!

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What a fresh, fascinating topic. :blink: I saw this thread last night and could easily hear my echo in here. I was so proud of all of the forum posters that I thought had taken the high road by choosing not to respond.

 

Whoops, guess my hypocrisy is sounding a bit like JMBella. "This forum is useless and should be closed... but I'll post to it a few dozen times until then." :) Just messin' with ya, JMBella.

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Truth be known this area is more sensitive than more temperate areas. The pony express trail is just at the bottom of the hill and can still be clearly seen. The forty mile desert located north of this location still has wagon tracks from settlers heading to California.

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