It's Just A Game

February 2, 2004

Several weeks ago, a local cacher logged a find for one of my caches even though his log clearly stated that he didn't find it. This particular cache had been designed and placed by my wife under my username (since she doesn't have/want her own). She wanted to delete the log right then, but since we've butted heads with this guy a couple of times in the past, I convinced her to ignore it.

I've had other finders mention that this log should be deleted, but each time let it stay.

This weekend, we ran into another cacher while doing a detailed micro-sweep. As we were talking, he said that it really bothered him that there was a no-find logged as a find on the cache in question. He'd worked through the puzzle and located the cache, and didn't think it was right that the other cacher got the same credit he did for half the effort.

My wife agreed and deleted the log.

This morning I had a nice present in my inbox. He'd deleted my logs from his caches.

I then sent him an email (as my wife should have done), explaining why his log was deleted and letting him know that his actions aren't going to change the way I play the game - I'm not deleting his logs in my other caches, and I'll still search and log his caches when they're in an area I'm in - even if he intends on deleting my finds as soon as they're posted.

It is just a game.

1.2k · February 2, 2004

It is just a game and it sounds like the only resolution to this problem (although ai have only heard your side of the stoy) wouldbe to just move on and pay it no more mind. Any further communication would probably just aggravate the situation. It's sad that he deleted your logs but at least you know you found them.

3.1k · February 2, 2004

This morning I had a nice present in my inbox. He'd deleted my logs from his caches.

I'm honestly not surprised. Idiots like this are all over. As I was reading this I wondered if you had logged any of his caches. So it came as no surprise to me that a guy like this would delete your finds.

Well I suppose neither of you will bother searching for each others caches in the future.

February 2, 2004

Several weeks ago, a local cacher logged a find for one of my caches even though his log clearly stated that he didn't find it. This particular cache had been designed and placed by my wife under my username (since she doesn't have/want her own). She wanted to delete the log right then, but since we've butted heads with this guy a couple of times in the past, I convinced her to ignore it.

I've had other finders mention that this log should be deleted, but each time let it stay.

This weekend, we ran into another cacher while doing a detailed micro-sweep. As we were talking, he said that it really bothered him that there was a no-find logged as a find on the cache in question. He'd worked through the puzzle and located the cache, and didn't think it was right that the other cacher got the same credit he did for half the effort.

My wife agreed and deleted the log.

This morning I had a nice present in my inbox. He'd deleted my logs from his caches.

I then sent him an email (as my wife should have done), explaining why his log was deleted and letting him know that his actions aren't going to change the way I play the game - I'm not deleting his logs in my other caches, and I'll still search and log his caches when they're in an area I'm in - even if he intends on deleting my finds as soon as they're posted.

It is just a game.

If thats how the guy wants to play "his" game, just let him be. He aint worth the stress.

20.7k · February 2, 2004

The saddest thing is that this isn't a new issue. Until its determined by the community that there are limits to a cache owner's right to arbitrarily delete valid on-line logs, there will always be people who get in a snit and delete all of someone's logs.

My advice to you is to relog your finds to one of your own caches. This will correct your find count. Ideally, this should be done on one of your archived caches. Otherwise, just backdate the logs by a year so it doesn't confuse current searchers. Also, remember to denote the correct found cache and date in your log.

Beyond that, continue to find whatever caches you want. Do not let one person make you diverge from the acceptable norms.

5.3k · February 2, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

February 2, 2004

For me, while the count is a record of sorts, it really doesn't matter. The logs I place in other peoples caches are really more for them than for me.

I'm going to keep caching as if this never happened.

3.9k · February 2, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

That's what I would do. I know that this isn't supposed to be about the numbers but my stats are important to me. Even if they don't matter to anyone else. Yes it's a game, but it should be played fairly none the less. In fact I would let his find stand just to maintain my correct stats.

February 2, 2004

For me, while the count is a record of sorts, it really doesn't matter. The logs I place in other peoples caches are really more for them than for me.

I'm going to keep caching as if this never happened.

Thats the right philosophy to have. I am betting that this person will probably get tired of caching soon and then you wont have to deal with them anymore.

3.1k · February 2, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

Trouble is you might find some of your own caches dissapearing all of a sudden. Better to just let it go.

3.9k · February 2, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

Trouble is you might find some of your own caches dissapearing all of a sudden. Better to just let it go.

Your right. How about this. Tell us who he is. We can all start sending him hate email.

February 2, 2004

Your right. How about this. Tell us who he is. We can all start sending him hate email.

I wouldn't have posted at all if there was a way to figure out who I was talking about (the logs are deleted).

6.5k · February 2, 2004

You don't mention if you attempted to resolve this with a polite email before the deletions started. I recently had a log entry that was a bit too specific on the location for my taste and it was resolved with one request.

You do mention butting heads with this cacher before though.

So my advice is to BUTT BACK HARD. Log back on to their cache pages and list a few DNF's undr random sock puppet accounts. Make them wonder if the caches have gone missing.

NO Don't do this I'm only kidding. Just letting it drop and taking the hight road like it sounds you plan to do is the best solution. But the other would be kinda funny.

3.9k · February 2, 2004

Your right. How about this. Tell us who he is. We can all start sending him hate email.

I wouldn't have posted at all if there was a way to figure out who I was talking about (the logs are deleted).

Just trying to help out. Seriously I give you a ton of credit. You're a better person than me. I would have given the guy a good b**** slap by now.

February 2, 2004

My advice to you is to relog your finds to one of your own caches.

I like this idea. I know you're not worried about your own stats, but this would make a statement to the other guy that his deletions of your logs really haven't affected you in any way.

24.7k · February 2, 2004

First of all the log should of been deleted right away with an appropriate email. The issue really wan't the bad log so much as the other cachers who did the work and earned the find. That puts you in a position of doing the right thing by them.

That the log sat so long gave it credibility in the owners eyes and then to have it deleted after they 'earned' the find (in their mind) was taken as an insult with the obvious retaliation.

I'd do exactly what you are going to do now. Keep on caching, keep on finding the guys cahces, and log the new finds as I find them. Over time I'd hope that he would let the old caches be re-logged but I'd not plan on it.

Edited February 2, 2004 by Renegade Knight

1.6k · February 2, 2004

I don't know why my logs keep disappearing off these caches! Oh well, here it is again. Found it. Cache in good shape. Third for the day. Took spider, left carabiner. Thanks for the cache!

CR

February 2, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

I like that idea too. And backdate it to like right after he hid it. I mean, your name is in the logbook, so just keep logging it.

3.1k · February 2, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

I like that idea too. And backdate it to like right after he hid it. I mean, your name is in the logbook, so just keep logging it.

Again if you push an idiot like this too far he may decide that deleting logs isn't good enough. He may just head out there and plunder all your caches. Why behave in a manner that he's behaving in?

If the numbers matter (they do) log the lost logs in one of your own archived caches. No biggie but leave this guy alone.

February 2, 2004

It's folks like that guy that makes you hope there is karma out there.

I would probably leave it just as is now since someone brought up the fact they could go out and plunder your caches.

3.9k · February 2, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

I like that idea too. And backdate it to like right after he hid it. I mean, your name is in the logbook, so just keep logging it.

Again if you push an idiot like this too far he may decide that deleting logs isn't good enough. He may just head out there and plunder all your caches. Why behave in a manner that he's behaving in?

If the numbers matter (they do) log the lost logs in one of your own archived caches. No biggie but leave this guy alone.

I can't stress enough that I think that that is the right thing to do. That being said, for me, it would be really difficult to just sit back and take it.

February 2, 2004

It's folks like that guy that makes you hope there is karma out there.

I would probably leave it just as is now since someone brought up the fact they could go out and plunder your caches.

He'd have to find it before he could plunder it.

Then wouldn't it be a loggable find if he bothered to sign the log?

February 2, 2004

Could you un-archive his log? The right series of action would be like this: ask the cacher to change it to DNF; if no result, then possibly post a note saying that the cache owner doesn't consider it to be a valid find, but the cacher refuses to budge, and let it be on his conscience.

You just don't want to piss off people who already proved that they don't listen to rational arguments. Caching is a crazy and somewhat antisocial passtime, and bad cachers may do bad things not just to your logs or your caches but also to other things which are dear to you.

February 2, 2004

It's folks like that guy that makes you hope there is karma out there.

I would probably leave it just as is now since someone brought up the fact they could go out and plunder your caches.

He'd have to find it before he could plunder it.

Then wouldn't it be a loggable find if he bothered to sign the log?

Good logic! We would have to bet if he stays lazy to go out for unjustified "revenge." Is there such a thing as justified revenge?

3.1k · February 2, 2004

He'd have to find it before he could plunder it.

Then wouldn't it be a loggable find if he bothered to sign the log?

Wouldn't it be fairly simple to locate your caches? You have them listed right? I should be a pretty easy task to go right out there and pick everyone of them up, if he desires.

Or maybe I missed your point???

5.3k · February 2, 2004

He'd have to find it before he could plunder it.

Then wouldn't it be a loggable find if he bothered to sign the log?

Wouldn't it be fairly simple to locate your caches? You have them listed right? I should be a pretty easy task to go right out there and pick everyone of them up, if he desires.

Or maybe I missed your point???

The point is the guy DIDN'T find his cache, but logged it as a find. So, maybe it isn't so easy for him to run out and steal it, since he can't find it!

3.1k · February 2, 2004

The point is the guy DIDN'T find his cache, but logged it as a find. So, maybe it isn't so easy for him to run out and steal it, since he can't find it!

OK, clear to me now. But of course this particular cache was difficult to find anyway. He may have some pretty easy ones out there that even a lazy guy would manage to make time to plunder.

February 2, 2004

Wouldn't it be fairly simple to locate your caches? You have them listed right? I should be a pretty easy task to go right out there and pick everyone of them up, if he desires.

Or maybe I missed your point???

I think that Stunod covered my point rather well. Although you are correct, if this guy wants to be a jerk about it the easier caches are at risk.

BTW, I don't list all my caches, I find it adds a notch or two to the difficulty level. I've had one out there that must be really hard, never found in 2 years!!

Edited February 3, 2004 by Laserman

February 3, 2004

Why didn't you try e-mailing him asking him to change the log first? I've done this before and not had any problems. I've had other owners do the same for me and it didn't bother me in the least.

I'm not saying you were wrong in deleting the log and his reaction is at best childish, but before deleting a log I think you should at the very least give them a chance to change it on his own.

Maybe an apology for not giving him that opportunity before deleting his log will clear the whole matter up.

Edited February 3, 2004 by FarSideX

2.3k · February 3, 2004

I don't know why my logs keep disappearing off these caches! Oh well, here it is again. Found it. Cache in good shape. Third for the day. Took spider, left carabiner. Thanks for the cache!

CR

I haven't been here in a while... but I'm confused -- didn't you commit "forum suicide" a few months back?

Welcome back, either way...

38.2k · February 3, 2004

I'd never go ahead and delete a log without first attempting to straighten it out via e-mail. In a case like this I would e-mail the person, "helpfully" pointing out that he seemed to have accidently logged a find, when he clearly meant it was a DNF.

If I get no response, then a follow-up e-mail telling him that I'm helping him out by deleting his log, so he can properly re-log it as a DNF.

Hopefully a tone like this would diffuse the situation and shame the person into logging it correctly. But then again, some people have no shame, so it won't work in all instances.

Too bad you had to suffer his childish wrath for doing the right thing.

Edited February 3, 2004 by briansnat

7.2k · February 3, 2004

Or be stubborn...keep re-logging and see how long he will keep deleting.

I like that idea too. And backdate it to like right after he hid it. I mean, your name is in the logbook, so just keep logging it.

Again if you push an idiot like this too far he may decide that deleting logs isn't good enough. He may just head out there and plunder all your caches. Why behave in a manner that he's behaving in?

If the numbers matter (they do) log the lost logs in one of your own archived caches. No biggie but leave this guy alone.

I can't stress enough that I think that that is the right thing to do. That being said, for me, it would be really difficult to just sit back and take it.

Sorry for the big quote, but my personal opinion is that Lazyboy & Mitey Mite and JMBella have given you the best advise.

I have someone who recently deleted my "found it" log on a cache. Unfortunately he holds a grudge against me for archiving a locationless cache over 18 months ago. He deleted my log and will not allow me to put it back on. I have now edited an old "note" on a cache into a "found it" log with an explaination of why I changed the "note" to a "found it" log and named the cache in question. It was a moving cache so now there is a blank space there where my name should be. My name is in the logbook though, and I moved it properly. This cache owner gets his revenge on me and I still get my found it log to keep my count accurate.

As suggested in this topic, you can always post a found it log on a cache you own with a note and a link to the cache. Just back date the log so it is at the bottom of the page. It is just a game but I would be concerned about this person stealing your caches. It is not worth pushing the issue when there is a work-around.

February 4, 2004

It is just a game but I would be concerned about this person stealing your caches. It is not worth pushing the issue when there is a work-around.

I have no intention of pushing the issue any further, and I've already followed their advice and created "mock" finds to bring my numbers back up where they belong.

I've considered the possibility that he might trash my caches, however, only two of my caches are at real risk from him. If it happens, it happens. I'll just create another account to hide future caches.

It's Just A Game

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