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Be Careful When Driving Out To Go Geocaching


Snideswipe

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So I'm sitting here in my mom's house, messing around on the computer and half-heartedly listening to the police scanner that's sitting on the old dresser that we're going to refinish. Mom used to be a cop, you see, and she likes to keep on top of what's going on in this sleepy county.

 

Most of the time, scanner traffic is little more than routine plate checks, cars sliding into ditches or a domestic where some drunk redneck starts throwing beer bottles at his neighbor's dogs.

 

I was thinking about how much I'd like to get outside to go caching. The weather is crappy; we're going to get about a foot of snow over the next few days. Something on the scanner pulled at my subconscience. I stopped typing and started listening.

 

There had been an accident on one of the local highways. A car was in a field, someone had hit a deer. The statements going over the radio were relaxed, it was a routine accident. I thought back to the time that I hit a deer in my old Buick Regal.

 

The traffic on the radio started to pick up. A woman was hurt... the deer had gone in through her windshield. She had been gored and wasn't breathing. Helicopters were dispatched, ambulances on the scene and the radio went quiet.

 

Maybe an hour ago, mom got a call from her best friend, one of the dispatchers at the Sheriff's office. A man had hit the deer with his car, at which point the deer went airborn and landed on the windshield of the woman driving behind him. She lost control and went into a field. By the time the man got to her, she was dead. She had been gored by the deer that went through her windshield. She wasn't much older than me.

 

I'm a little shaken now. This young woman was happily doing her own thing, when whammo... a flying deer took her life.

 

Be careful when driving in the Midwest to go hunt for caches.

 

Be grateful for the time you have.

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Deer can be an issue. Often here they dent up the car and nobody is hurt, but yes, occasionally a fatality happens. Of course, there are deer crossing signs everywhere, but when has anyone seen a deer cross by the sign? I guess it is one of those things that we have to be aware of, but unfortuately often can't prevent , because it is not usually a case of a person hitting an easily seen deer. Instead, the deer runs out in front of them before a reaction can stop an impact. :rolleyes:

Edited by carleenp
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The mention of the police scanner got me thinking. I wonder if it would help to avoid being hassled while looking for a cache. For instance, you might hear the "suspicious person" call go out before they actually arrive to interrogate you as to why you are feeling aroung in the shrubbery. Might be a good thing to have while driving.

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Deer happen to be the most deadly mammal in North America. I can think of several recent deaths caused by them in my area. One was similar, where it went through the windshield and was thrashing around inside the car and kicked the driver in the head, killing her.

 

In another instance, a deer ran into the side of the car, killing the driver instantly, causing the car to run off the road, killing one of the kids inside.

 

My brother hit one just last week, doing 70mph. Thankfully he was unhurt but his car had over $5,000 damage.

 

We have way too many of them here in NJ. Wherever you find a few trees, you'll find some deer. They've even shown up in cities like Newark. Some towns actually pay professional hunters to come in and thin the population.

Edited by briansnat
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The mention of the police scanner got me thinking. I wonder if it would help to avoid being hassled while looking for a cache. For instance, you might hear the "suspicious person" call go out before they actually arrive to interrogate you as to why you are feeling aroung in the shrubbery. Might be a good thing to have while driving.

Been there done that (sort of). I carried my rescue squad radio w/ it on scan on a hunt or two a few Sunday mornings ago. I figured if the PD were coming to see me, I'd be gone when they arrived. :rolleyes:

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In Brown County Sate Park in Indiana, they have an annual deer 'harvest.' There's an outcry every year, but TPTB say it's in the deer's best interest, becuause they are so out of control in population that they are starving themselves to death. They cite disease, and of course, unfortunate human encounters like the ones described here. I'm no bleeding heart, and I understand the need to keep their numbers in check, but I sure did enjoy it last week when I was logging a cache in an Indianapolis inner city park and a pair of deer come hightailing it down the game trail I was following. They didn't see me, where I was off trail a bit, logging the cache, until they were just a few yards away. They stopped short for a fraction of a second, looked one another in the eye and took off fast in a different direction. Made my day. :rolleyes:

 

And yes, I am cognizant of the fact that, being in an inner city park, they are at even greater risk of a traffic accident. Just saying: find beauty in the day where ever you can, and hope man and beast survive to enjoy the next.

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I was caching in a park in my hometown over the holidays . There is a "deer lady" that insists on feeding them and has been threatened with fines and jail time if she doesn't stop. She keeps claiming the deer are starving to death. There are acytually more deer and accidents than ever before. The deer in this park have become so tame that while I was caching there one walked past me about 8-10 feet away and I could smell it. It didn't run away even though I yelled at it to scare it.

Edited by Wacka
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Good point, Snideswipe. The most important thing to remember is NOT to swerve to avoid a deer. That will cause you to lose control of the car. I lost a close friend a couple of years ago because he swerved to miss a deer and rolled his truck. One of the last calls I ran as a paramedic was for a MV/deer accident. The car struck the deer, the deer's head whipped around through the passenger window and gored a 6 month old baby in the head, killing her. :rolleyes: That's one of the reasons I quit EMS.

 

Today on the way to town, I came across 3 accidents in 3 miles because of the freezing drizzle we're getting. This one was a fatality because the driver wasn't wearing a seatbelt......please, people, for God's sake, buckle up!!!!

 

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This person most likely would have survived if he'd had on a seatbelt. He was partially ejected out the back window and crushed as the truck rolled over him (note the sheet in the rear window). <_<

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(The following tale happened before geocaching was invented, but since I was using GPS, I am compelled to tell it here anyway.)

 

The story begins five years ago, on the 7th night of an 8-day, 150-mile canoe trip down the White river in southern Indiana. It was a starry summer night with no moon and no breeze. The campfire was a mere glow and the week’s adventures were about to become memories.

 

We were camped on a huge sandbar at the apex of a U shaped bend in the river. The sharp bend, and the two legs of the U formed a narrow, wooded “peninsula” about one mile long. Except for the sounds of distant coyotes and a single barred owl, silence prevailed.

 

Both of us were ready for slumber under the stars when the small dog that had accompanied us let out a little whimper.

 

Immediately, all hell broke loose. An unknown number of deer had inadvertently strolled right into our campsite in their nightly excursion to the water.

 

You know what the stampedes sound like on the old cowboy movies? Well, erase the sound of the gradual buildup of hooves, turn up the volume, and hit the dirt. They were right on top of us and on all sides.

 

There was no warning to reveal their direction of travel. We were right in the middle of a stampede of deer. And to make matters scarier, it was pitch dark. In our imaginations, it sounded as though the animals were converging on us.

 

After our initial shock (just seconds) we ran to the river’s edge with flashlights where we could hear loud splashing and snorting and eventually the sounds of the animals crashing, in panic, up the steep bank on the other side. It’s hard to say who was more panicked, the deer or us!

 

We never spotted that first deer that night, but upon inspection of the sand bar the next morning, we discovered the tracks of no less than 13 deer. The signs revealed that the herd of deer had gradually approached our area, then panicked, dug in, and headed into the river.

 

There were deep deer tracks on either side of our tiny camping area. The closest ones were only 4 feet away! I still have the coordinates of that campsite and I have revisited the area twice to reminisce.

 

The moral of this story: Be careful wherever you go. Large animals can be dangerous! :rolleyes:<_<

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Deer accidents are so common around here, it's hard to keep track of them all. My first accident happened when I was driving home from high school one night, cruising along a little over the speed limit. I was heading around a curve and a deer hopped up the bank and landed in my lane right as I was driving by. No braking, no time to think, just *thud* and that was that.

 

A few years later, mom had come up to Truman State University to bring me home for something or other. We were on our way back and hit a deer at about 55 mph. The deer flew up and over our car, hitting the trunk and a rear quarter on the way back down. That accident shook us a bit; had the body not flown UP, it could have been similar to what happened last night.

 

The truly scary part about last night's accident was not that the deer went through her windshield, but that she wasn't even the one who hit it in the first place. A different car altogether hit the deer. The flying deer then went through the second car's windshield, continuing out the rear window. I found out this morning that the deer didn't impale the second driver (as reported last night). It knocked the top of her head off as it flew through her car.

 

It's left me in a strange, philosophical mood today.

 

I'm thinking about how ephemeral life is, this cosmic joke that allows carbon to walk and breathe and laugh. I'm thinking about how so many little meat puppets find happiness in big paychecks, when real happiness is to be found with friends and family.

 

The neat thing about geocaching is that for once, we're uniting technology and nature to create something that so many of us enjoy. We're turned into children, alive with a sense of wonder and anticipation as we set out to find a cache. Even the simplest caches are like a Christmas present in my eyes, a gift that reminds me how fun it is to be alive.

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Very well said Snideswipe!

 

A few years later, mom had come up to Truman State University to bring me home for something or other.

 

OT (sorry) Good college! I thought of going there, but then decided to stay home in Nebraska. I occasionally judge debate and coach mock trial and their students are always excellent in both.

 

Back on topic: We don't have as many deer problems here, likely because of the lack of trees near roads. Yet, my boyfriend hit a deer last year on the interstate in the middle of Omaha (although near a fairly open area with a park and some trees). No injuries, but it made for a pretty dented up car and some rattled nerves.

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This is a subject that gets me a little steamed. I'll tell you why.

 

I live along a road in the country, headed up to a skii area, that is lined for the most part, with fruit orchards. We have deer at any time of the year on this road, but especially in the winter. My mother-in-law hit one last year, but fortunately she was going slow, so there was only minimal damage (to the car, anyway). I see dead deer along the side of the road quite frequently.

 

The thing that gets me steamed, is the way people (most of wich live along the road) drive on this road. The speed limit is 50 (way too fast), but they insist on going faster, even at night. I have had numerous times at dusk, where I will be going the speed limit, and people will pass me on a no passing zone, and speed off.

 

This time of year, I almost always see deer when I am driving home at night. But people insist on getting right up on my tail, with thier lights in my eyes, which makes me have to go even slower, for safety.

 

After reading that story above, I realize how much scarier this is.

 

Do they think that they are invincible?!? :mad:

 

I wish they could all read these posts.

Edited by Ambrosia
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The mention of the police scanner got me thinking. I wonder if it would help to avoid being hassled while looking for a cache. For instance, you might hear the "suspicious person" call go out before they actually arrive to interrogate you as to why you are feeling aroung in the shrubbery. Might be a good thing to have while driving.

I dont know about where you live but in ny it is illegal to have a police scanner in your car so I would look into it before doing it. just a thought.

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I hit a deer in the middle of the city, they often leave thier normal habbitat to look for food. Fortunatly for me I was out plowing snow and the plow on the front of my truck was basically a really big shield.

The deer survived, I was only going about 10 to 15 m/ph and hit the breaks as soon as I saw it. I mean come on A deer in the city, so you really are not safe anywhere! :mad:

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Lots of deer here as well. It doesn't help when people go out and feed them bagels and bags of deer chow.

 

One thing I have heard, but have not tested, is not to slow down for the deer. Supposedly the act of braking lowers the front end enough for them to flip on to the hood. Not slowing down knocks them down. I really have no plans to find out if it is true.

 

And no, we don't need to reintroduce wolves in to the area. Perhaps an extended hunting season or raising the limit. I'd rather have a deer problem than a wolf problem.

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One thing I have heard, but have not tested, is not to slow down for the deer. Supposedly the act of braking lowers the front end enough for them to flip on to the hood. Not slowing down knocks them down. I really have no plans to find out if it is true.

 

I have a friend in the insurance business who also told me this. Also, trying to avoid the deer can lead to a different type of accident. Among other things she told me was that passengers should not be allowed to put their feet up on the dash over the air bag. Apparently she has had several cases where the air bag going off severed the legs. And of course, she highly recommends wearing a seat belt.

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Where I live we have mule deer, much larger than the white tail they have back east. We have Elk, we have burros, we have wild horses, we have open range (cattle on the road), BIG animals. The worst I was ever scared hitting an amimal was a jack rabbit, doing 75mph on a Honda 750. It's all about proportion.

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The bigger your SUV, the less chance of flipping the deer up and over. :mad:

The bigger your SUV, the less chance you have of avoiding the accident in the first place.

 

Kind of OT...

 

I read a very good article in the New Yorker a couple of weeks ago about SUVs and that people buy them because they feel safer in them. The thing is, though, that you're much more (5 times? don't remember exactly) likely to get into an accident in an SUV, because you don't have the same ability to control the vehicle in an emergency situation as you do in a small car.

 

They showed the statistics for the number of fatalities per million vehicles sold for a number of makes/models of cars, trucks and SUVs. The vehicles with the highest death rates were pickups and SUVs, the lowest were passenger cars - many of which were the little tin can cars like Kias and Hyundais.

 

The bottom line was that yes, in an accident, a SUV can protect you better, but you're much more likely to get into an accident in an SUV.

 

One other interesting factoid that I learned from the article - because SUVs are considered to be trucks, they don't have the same safety restrictions placed on them as cars do. Crumple zones was one feature that was mentioned - they mentioned others, but I don't recall what they were.

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I have taken a few "defensive driving" and emergency vehicle operations courses geared for emergency responders. A few lessons learned from those courses: Do not try to steer around an animal. Brake to reduce your speed or stop before colliding with the animal. If you are not going to be able to stop before hitting the animal, then mash the accelerator down right before impact. Braking does transfer vehicle weight and lower the front end. Accelerating transfers vehicle weight the opposite way and raises the front end. By doing emergency braking you reduce your speed prior to impact (reducing damage to you and vehicle and possibly stop prior to collision) and then by mashing the accelerator down prior to impact, you transfer the weight and bring the front end of the vehicle back up so that hopefully the animal will go under the vehicle. I have not had the opportunity to try this personally. I have spoken with people who have used this strategy when colliding with deer and it appeared to have worked for them. This strategy may not be legal for collisions involving any thing other than ANIMALS.

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The bigger your SUV, the less chance of flipping the deer up and over. :mad:

The bigger your SUV, the less chance you have of avoiding the accident in the first place.

 

Kind of OT...

 

I read a very good article in the New Yorker a couple of weeks ago about SUVs and that people buy them because they feel safer in them. The thing is, though, that you're much more (5 times? don't remember exactly) likely to get into an accident in an SUV, because you don't have the same ability to control the vehicle in an emergency situation as you do in a small car.

 

They showed the statistics for the number of fatalities per million vehicles sold for a number of makes/models of cars, trucks and SUVs. The vehicles with the highest death rates were pickups and SUVs, the lowest were passenger cars - many of which were the little tin can cars like Kias and Hyundais.

 

The bottom line was that yes, in an accident, a SUV can protect you better, but you're much more likely to get into an accident in an SUV.

 

One other interesting factoid that I learned from the article - because SUVs are considered to be trucks, they don't have the same safety restrictions placed on them as cars do. Crumple zones was one feature that was mentioned - they mentioned others, but I don't recall what they were.

Interesting. All three accidents I saw yesterday on the ice were caused by people in 4wd SUVs. It's not about control, it's about lack of intelligence. I was in my Jeep, and I had people passing me in front wheel drive cars and 4wd trucks.....just because they get the initial traction, they think they are invincible....tell that to the dead guy in his Honda SUV.

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Deer are very dangerous. No doubt about it! Here in New Brunswick on the east coast of Canada there are many signs on the highways and "critter fences" on a couple of stretches of the more dangerous highways.

 

SLOW DOWN is one of the more important messages getting out. It just gives you more reaction time.

 

Our most serious animal problem is Moose. They're big and heavy and most vehicles drive under them and the unfortunate driver experiences 1200 pounds of animal coming through their windshield!!

 

Moose at night

 

When I was learning to drive motorcycles the instructor told us that if you actually accelerate slightly before you hit an animal it will help you control the impact, and DO NOT try to avoid the animal... keep in control.

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A friend of mine hit a deer while doing about 55 on his motorcycle a couple of months ago. He wreaked damaging the forks and handelbars of the bike then slid to an eventual stop on his leather clothing, cracking his helmet. He could still drive the bike sort of but the deer was gone. Last spring or summer my dad ran over a baby moose with his 4x4. Baby moose fare badly against 4x4 chevy trucks.

 

Does anyone know if those little whistles to scare away deer that mount on your front bumper actually work and where to buy them?

Edited by crispete
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A friend of mine hit a deer while doing about 55 on his motorcycle a couple of months ago. He wreaked damaging the forks and handelbars of the bike then slid to an eventual stop on his leather clothing, cracking his helmet. He could still drive the bike sort of but the deer was gone.  Last spring or summer my dad ran over a baby moose with his  4x4. Baby moose fare badly against 4x4 chevy trucks.

 

Does anyone know if those little whistles to scare away deer that mount on your front bumper actually work and where to buy them?

Yes, they do work. Back in 1995 or so, the KHP did a study with them. By using the deer warning whistles, they decreased their annual MV/deer accidents by 76%. The KHP had been hitting over 1300 deer per year prior to using the warning whistles. Now, they are hitting less than 450 per year.

 

EDIT: Oh, yeah, you can get them at just about any auto supply store, WalMart, Walgreens, TSC, and many other department and hardware stores.

Edited by Sparky-Watts
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A friend of mine hit a deer while doing about 55 on his motorcycle a couple of months ago. He wreaked damaging the forks and handelbars of the bike then slid to an eventual stop on his leather clothing, cracking his helmet. He could still drive the bike sort of but the deer was gone.  Last spring or summer my dad ran over a baby moose with his  4x4. Baby moose fare badly against 4x4 chevy trucks.

 

Does anyone know if those little whistles to scare away deer that mount on your front bumper actually work and where to buy them?

Yes, they do work. Back in 1995 or so, the KHP did a study with them. By using the deer warning whistles, they decreased their annual MV/deer accidents by 76%. The KHP had been hitting over 1300 deer per year prior to using the warning whistles. Now, they are hitting less than 450 per year.

 

EDIT: Oh, yeah, you can get them at just about any auto supply store, WalMart, Walgreens, TSC, and many other department and hardware stores.

Interesting. Even though there are not a lot of deer problems around here, I am paranoid and Snideswipe's story freaked me out, so I think I will buy one!

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Yes, they do work.  Back in 1995 or so, the KHP did a study with them.  By using the deer warning whistles, they decreased their annual MV/deer accidents by 76%.  The KHP had been hitting over 1300 deer per year prior to using the warning whistles.  Now, they are hitting less than 450 per year.

I don't know about that study in particular, but I know others claiming the whistles work have been debunked.

 

Some other research has shown that it isn't the deer whistles themselves that result in reduced accidents, but that it was just increased driver awareness about the deer problem. People who were buying and installing the whistles were just more safety-concious to begin with, and those forced to use them were just made more aware of the possibility of hitting a deer.

 

If I remember correctly, the study installed some bogus deer whistles on some vehicles (the drivers thought they were real whistles) and the accidents went down. The drivers reported that they were actually seeing deer scared away. Since the whistles were fake, that result was just chalked up to better driver awareness.

 

I can't say that's the final word on the subject, but I won't be convinced that they really work until my insurance company gives me a price break for having them installed. Does anyone have an insurance company that does that?

 

Here's an interesting article on the subject. Make sure you read down to the bottom where it talks about the whistles, and what one guy tried in Arkansas.

 

http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmj/9705/rm970503.htm

 

George

Edited by nincehelser
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People who were buying and installing the whistles were just more safety-concious to begin with, and those forced to use them were just made more aware of the possibility of hitting a deer.

 

Hmm. That is interesting too. I suppose I meet that category. I tend to be pretty cautious driving and when I bought my last car, I researched safety features and crash tests to death (or to life, depending on how you consider it). I'm still trying to figure out whether to get a disconnect switch for the airbag or not (I sit right on the line for safe distance) and actually get anxious about that at times after a friend, who isn't even short, was injured by an airbag. OK, I'm digressing. Anyway, I wonder if some people might buy one and then drive faster in deer areas because they feel more secure? Just a thought, but I still think you are likely right that the type of person who would buy one would be an already cautious person anyway, so they likely would not do that.

Edited by carleenp
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Yes, they do work.  Back in 1995 or so, the KHP did a study with them.  By using the deer warning whistles, they decreased their annual MV/deer accidents by 76%.  The KHP had been hitting over 1300 deer per year prior to using the warning whistles.  Now, they are hitting less than 450 per year.

I don't know about that study in particular, but I know others claiming the whistles work have been debunked.

 

Some other research has shown that it isn't the deer whistles themselves that result in reduced accidents, but that it was just increased driver awareness about the deer problem. People who were buying and installing the whistles were just more safety-concious to begin with, and those forced to use them were just made more aware of the possibility of hitting a deer.

 

If I remember correctly, the study installed some bogus deer whistles on some vehicles (the drivers thought they were real whistles) and the accidents went down. The drivers reported that they were actually seeing deer scared away. Since the whistles were fake, that result was just chalked up to better driver awareness.

 

I can't say that's the final word on the subject, but I won't be convinced that they really work until my insurance company gives me a price break for having them installed. Does anyone have an insurance company that does that?

 

Here's an interesting article on the subject. Make sure you read down to the bottom where it talks about the whistles, and what one guy tried in Arkansas.

 

http://www.usroads.com/journals/rmj/9705/rm970503.htm

 

George

Well, I don't think you'd find a more "deer aware" group of drivers in the state of Kansas than the State Troopers and Highway Patrol. The study was originally conducted with them, due to the amount of time (all day every day) they spend on the roads in Kansas. If the drop were due to increased awareness only, then it wouldn't have continued at the low level as the deer population increased over the past 8 or 9 years. Our Troopers are always alert to anything that is a potential danger, and MV/deer collisions with them have always been very high. I seriously doubt your argument carries any weight in this study, or the Troopers' awareness would have become lax in the past several years and accidents would have steadily increased again to the pre-study levels.

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I seriously doubt your argument carries any weight in this study, or the Troopers' awareness would have become lax in the past several years and accidents would have steadily increased again to the pre-study levels.

Nah. I'm pretty sure it carries weight.

 

Check out this link:

 

http://www.kansashighwaypatrol.org/facts/e...nt.htm#whistles

 

Or here:

 

http://www.swdtimes.com/swdtimes/html/Dail...AY/oct22/03html

 

It looks like the KHP must not know about their own study.

 

George

Edited by nincehelser
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Well, all I know is that my family used those warning whistles when I was younger, and we still hit a deer and killed it.

 

We think that maybe it has more of an effect if the deer is just standing there, and hears it, so it doesn't get that "deer in the headlights" thing.

 

But the deer we hit was part of a group that were trying to leap across the road as fast as they could. Maybe the whistle scared them and flushed them out into our car?

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The information I based my reply on was published by the Wichita Eagle in late 1998 or early 1999. I cannot find it now, though, so I won't argue with you, since I am unable to produce the evidence. People who do that in the forums really tick me off, and I don't want to be one of those people. I used the information when I was the Training Officer for our EMS department for a Defensive Driving course. I will, however stand by my statement about the exponentially increasing deer population in Kansas with these statements from the Wichita Eagle concerning deer accidents:

 

In late spring, the state's deer population rises to about 450,000. In the 1960s, there were about 35,000 deer in the state, Fox said.

 

This article also gives some rather startling statistics about deer collisions:

 

The worst year for deer accidents was 1999, when 10,201 deer were struck by vehicles, resulting in 444 injuries to people, according to accident records.

The worst day for deer accidents was Nov. 17, 1999, when 118 Kansas drivers struck 117 deer. At 10:18 p.m. that Wednesday, two motorists hit the same deer on U.S. 69 in Bourbon County.

 

Yes.....that's Bourbon County....draw your own conclusions! ;)

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The information I based my reply on was published by the Wichita Eagle...

There's the problem!

 

Yes, the deer problem seems to be growing everywhere. Yesterday I was eating in the local Jack-in-the-Box, and saw about 20 deer across the 4-lane highway. I think that's the largest group I've ever seen. The restaurant manager had this funny gleem in his eye...

 

This is in a formerly rural area that is quickly turning suburban. The deer are essentially surrounded by homes now...and there's nowhere for them to go. Something's gotta give.

 

I like venison sausage, but I'm going to watch that Jack's menu closely from now on.

 

George

Edited by nincehelser
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The worst day for deer accidents was Nov. 17, 1999, when 118 Kansas drivers struck 117 deer. At 10:18 p.m. that Wednesday, two motorists hit the same deer on U.S. 69 in Bourbon County.

Deer/Car ping-pong? :D

Yup....saw that happen with two semi's on the turnpike a few years back! Bet that was a tender piece of venison by the time it stopped bouncing! ;)

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