View From The Paper Side

[+treemoss2]

Well, I decided to go paperless when I bought a PDA on sale. Seems like a good way to go. Not really. Not unless you are a mega-caching ringer.

You will be finding yourself sitting at a computer for many hours trying to decipher the whole process of getting the info into your PDA the way you thought it was supposed to be.

You will be doing queries. On yeah, that has its limits too. But the limits are not numbers, but TOO MANY numbers of caches. No ability to pick and choose singular caches. Nope, you may be downloading in urban areas, maybe a hundred caches to get the 5 you had had your sights on. Then you need pick those 3 and delete the others. So a cache over here, near the park, another by downtown, and then one up north on your way to work. Well, there you have it, a 10 mile radius and you will reap a hundred caches in your query. Now you can scroll around to find those three. of course, that is after you have mastered the entire process of geocache website to PDA transfer.

They have some new features for these queries now, but you'd better be looking hard for them and reading the forums for hints and explanations.

Heck, you might even get sucked into the black hole of maps in your PDA/GPS/and their associated waypoints/laptops.

Part of the problem is that the people who write the programs don't see anything in the same way that we non-computer people do. What they take for granted, we take as "huh?".

Never the twain will meet.

Have some motrin handy.

All in all it may be a better way if you are electronically inclined. But in the end not any less time consuming than printing out the caches that you want. And printing is a whole lot less aggravating.

This is a fair forewarning.

 

Me, I am going back to paper. I am not in need of having 500 caches in my PD and my GPS. Until it gets so I can refine the search to only the caches I want I think I'll be putting my PDA aside.

[+Stunod]

Thanks for your story. I'm sorry you got frustrated.

 

There are simple solutions to most, if not all, the problems you were facing. There are many of us here in the forums who would have been happy to help you, if you would have just asked.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

It's not that hard.

 

Set up a Pocket Query for the types of caches you want to do in your area.

Run the *.GPX file through Spinner

Open the Spinner.GPX file in Easy GPS and send all waypoints to your GPS

Open Plucker and tell it to use the index.html file in the "cache" folder that Spinner made and link to a depth of 3 pages.

HotSync your Palm, Plucker will add to your Palm's Menu

Look on your GPS for a nearby cache

Look up the cache page on your Palm.

Go find the cache

[+harleycache]

Don't give up yet. It's really not that difficult (but I'm not the one to explain), but it really does make a difference.

 

Listen to the advice that's sure to follow, and you'll soon learn paperless is the best way.

[+SBPhishy]

First off, I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but just because you can't understand a simple process, doesn't mean it's bunk. Using a PDA for caching has saved me HOURS AND HOURS of time, not to mention paper and ink. I may have a bunch of caches that I will most likely not ever find, but as long as I have a complete list if everything that I will probably find, that's fine with me. Also, if you are not using Cachemate, you are setting yourself up for failure, in my opinion. Cachemate makes everything easier, in the smallest amount of steps. If there are hundreds of caches in a 10 mile radius, I suggest you get off your a** and go find some of them. I could only wish for that many within 10 miles.

 

As far as picking single caches for a query, if you know exactly which ones you want, add them to your watch list. Then, make the query send you caches that you HAVENT FOUND, and that ARE ON MY WATCH LIST. I make queries quite often of 1-5 caches, of the new ones that pop up.

 

So, with some simple reading of instructions, and a little bit of patience, you will get the hang of paperless caching, and you will never go back. []

[+Team GPSaxophone]

My Pocket Query has all caches in my state (about 400) that I haven't found. I can look them up on my Palm by waypoint ID (GCxxxx), by name, etc. I can easily pick the cache I want out of an alphabetical or numbered list. There is no "scrolling" past cache pages just to find the one I want. Also, once I have one cache page open, there are links to nearby caches at the bottom of that page. That makes it very easy to go to one area of town and find caches.

[+treemoss2]

I am a premium member. I have cachemate. I have plucker.

I do not have spinner. That would just be another thing and from what I understand(?) I don't need that if I have the above.

 

As for using the watch list, I am aware of the ability to just query my watch list. I understand the premise of that to select only those caches that I want. However, that means I have to remove the caches on my watchlist I would still like to watch just for the sake of the query. I guess I can do that.

It just seemed to me to be a huge overlook in the query system to not be able to pick and choose. Like going to a deli and having to buy all the sandwiches when all you wanted was a roast beef and a turkey sandwich.

People should be aware of the learning/frustration curve associated with going paperless. All the coversions between systems and languages and the language itself used to explain how that works. Plus the myriad ways to get to the end, Spinner/Plucker vs Cachemate.

 

Here is some and excerpt from some advice given her and I appreciate it. I do not understand it, but it was given by way of explanation.

"Run the *.GPX file through Spinner"

 

Simple on the face of it. But like saying "clip in to the rope and go" to someone wanting to know how to rappel.

 

I think someone without the knowledge that is taken for granted by many who know the ins and outs of paperless fails to see the way it may have been for them before they became proficient.

 

I did some research on the "new" query page. Managed to get my queries waypoints up on screen. thought it was a good feature. Went back later. Couldn't see how it was done, how I had done it. It looks like it should be easier. Something's not as apparent to some of us as to others.

When I was in these waypoints I went and put the query into my PDA. Well, there it was now in cachemate. But NO descriptions, past logs etc. repeated the download. Still the same.

What happened? Who knows?

I am saying that these sorts of headaches do not happen with paper.

Since I am choosy about what caches I bother to get, paper is far easier than the geek route.

I'll use that watch list method if I need to.

[+Stunod]

When I was in these waypoints I went and put the query into my PDA. Well, there it was now in cachemate. But NO descriptions, past logs etc. repeated the download. Still the same.

What happened? Who knows?

I know.

 

You downloaded a .loc file, which doesn't contain the descriptions, logs, etc. They are only in the .gpx file.

 

The .gpx files are only available as a PQ...you cannot get them from the cache pages or search lists (although that would be nice).

 

I believe Jeremy has said he will be improving the watch list in the near future. You will have the ability to have multiple watch lists. This should make the query of individual caches easier.

Edited January 30, 2004 by Stunod

[+Renegade Knight]

Once I made it more complex than it was. Now I use three programs and don't sweat anything.

 

Once week I get my GPX file. If I know i'll be caching I unzip it and move it to my PDA sync folder. If It's been awhile I'll dump the GPS wapoints and load them up again from the GPX.

 

If I want to look at a town's caches I use GPXview to export a S&T file for the PDA maps I have (MS Streets and Trips).

 

If I'ts going to be a cache trip I might import the points into National Geographic Topo.

 

That's it. Most of the time I just update my PDA and GPS and call it good. I'm out 10 minutes once a week. More to plan out a trip but you need to do that anyway.

[+Prime Suspect]

The paperless route isn't for everyone. I'm a pretty techie guy, but I prefer to carry paper printouts.

 

I use 8.5x14 paper almost exclusively in my printer (in most cases, stores sell legal size paper for the same cost as standard*). And it's pretty rare that I can't get the entire cache page (minus logs) on 1 sheet. I use Utopia to add any annotations to the cache page before printing them.

 

On the back, on one end I usually print a photo map (from LostOutdoors.com) indicating the cache location. On the other end I print a street map from Street Atlas 2004. This is because where I think I should go to park is not always the best place. It then helps a lot to have a printed map of the immediate area (even with a mapping GPS).

 

Having the paper also gives me a place to quickly note what trades I made, and to write down locations for multiple caches.

 

I own a wireless Palm VII, and can use to look up area caches pretty much anywhere PalmNet is active (which piggybacks on the Cingular network). But for a planned outing, I'll take the low-tech route. I've never had the batteries in a sheet of paper go dead.

 

* Yes, I realize that's U.S. standard.

[+harleycache]

Yeah, but I have run out of ink

[+welch]

treemoss2, just keeping working at and asking question. Once you get a system you like up and going its a great time saver!

 

If you want to try the spinner/pluck combo, Cybret's Tip Page might help. When everything is setup updating the files is very quick and easy.

If you want want to have to convert etc the files everytime, then go with something similar. I used to use Mobipocket. Just get the ebook sent with your gpx, send it to the desktop program and sync the device. It only lets you view the caches in one order, by ID. But its easier to set up and run IMO. Im also sure there are many other methods that other use. Try them out and when you find one you like, go with it .

[The_Brownies]

Tree Moss -- What is your age? 50 - 60? From your tone, I would say in your early to mid 50's. I applaud you for trying. You probably thought you'll get a PDA and this whole paperless caching business would be a piece of cake. Unfortunately, sometimes things are not as strait forward as we would like them to be. That's why you needed to do a little bit more research before you purchased your palm and tried uploading cache pages. Don't give the excuse "I DID NOT KNOW". If you had done a quick search of this website you would have seen this topic has been discussed many times before.

 

Now you have the palm. What now? You are frustrated with the darn thing because you do not understand how to upload new cache pages, so now you are going back to paper. Let's look at that.

 

Ink Jet Cartridges cost $30 for Black, and $35 for Color. Ream of 500 sheets of paper costs $3. How many pages will you get from the cartridges before refilling the ink jet printer? 250? You do the math. It's not very cost effective is it? Plus the ink runs when the paper gets wet.

 

I personally would buy a used HP4 laserjet off ebay before I would waste my time on an inkjet printer. It would be a lot more cost effective. $75 bucks for a toner cartridge and you get 4-5 thousand pages before having to replace it.

 

Since you are having problems with the PDA it is highly unlikely you will go with the laserjet option so here's what I would suggest that you do.

 

* Take a deep long breath and RELAX!!. Go do something else. Read a book. Take a walk. The only thing you will ever get when you are upset with something is more frustration.

 

* Once you are relaxed, and clear headed, call a friend who is a computer geek and have them help you with this issue. If you do not have a computer geek friend post a thread for help and there are lots of people out there willing to help you. In fact, I bet there is a geocacher in your area that would be glad to help you with this issue.

 

In short -- don't give up on the PDA. It will work, but you need to have a little patience. If you still don't understand how to make this whole thing work, eat a piece of humble pie and ask a question. It's better to ask a question then to sit back and act like you understand when you don't. In fact the dumbest question I ever heard of was the one that was never asked.

 

Good luck.

[+harleycache]

Tree Moss -- What is your age? 50 - 60? From your tone, I would say in your early to mid 50's. 

Sorry, but I hate these generalizations. At work, I'm the old guy at 52, and the younger ones seem to be the one's who hate learning to work smarter, not harder, by using the resources the computer gives us.

 

Shoot, he might be in his 20's.

 

edited to change the but to by.

Edited January 31, 2004 by harleycache

[+Mastifflover]

Wow never considered myself a geek but if that's what it's called when you cache paperless I love being a geek. I am sure that there are many of us who did not get it in the first try me included but I asked a lot of questions and eventually got it, now I will never go back. Take the advice and check out Cybrets how to page it gives great step by step instructions. Or you could just stamp your feet and pout.

[+crzycrzy]

I know what you mean.

I went paperless as soon as possible.

I use a BlackBerry because my work gave it to me.

Part phone, part PDA, part Email, part Satan.

But I am able to put caches on outlook as notes and easily search them on my blackberry.

I am kind of weird that way, but it does make mass retrieval rather impractical

and slow.

So I am looking for an upgrade, but I don't want to wind up with a toolbelt of

electronics to go caching. (i.e. GPS, cell phone, PDA, etc...)

I wish that (Hey GPS manufacturers are you listening ?)

there was an affordable GPS with basic database functions that was more

PDA like in quality and incorporated cell phone technology.

You heard me right...

A GPS PDA Phone. With internet access.

Gents, if you do it. I am in line to buy it.

[The_Brownies]

Sorry, but I hate these generalizations. At work, I'm the old guy at 52, and the younger ones seem to be the one's who hate learning to work smarter, not harder, by using the resources the computer gives us.

 

Shoot, he might be in his 20's.

1) Look at his profile.

 

2) I deal with individuals on a daily basis who have no idea what it means to OPEN WINDOWS EXPLORER, or what it means to press any key to continue.. "I don't see the ANYKEY.. WHERE'S the ANYKEY?" or better yet they don't even know what the Computer Desktop is when they are looking at it. Yes, not all of them are 50+, but a large majority are. How do I base this? As I said before, I deal with these individuals on a daily basis because I'm a software support technicain and it's my job to help them.

 

You seem to think that I'm flaming the guy. I'm not. It is rather obvious that he has gotten frustrated by something that is really not that difficult to do, and instead of calling for help, he just decided it doesn't work and tossed the technology aside.

Edited January 31, 2004 by The_Brownies

[+welch]

1) Look at his profile.

 

Ok, my turn to be confused... how are you using his profile to determine age??

[+harleycache]

No, I really didn't think you were flaming him. Perhaps I'm getting overly sensitive (nah, don't think so ) now that I've reached that magic milestone of 50+.

 

I didn't look at his profile, so perhaps you're right. I just don't generalize on age and computers anymore, because I've worked with too many who are in the "computer age" who are ignorant.

 

By the way, I do agree with all that you told him, though, for what that's worth.

 

[+Traveling Jones]

Heck I cant even get the PQ's right, just went premium today. I want a pda to go paperless but havent found one yet. Hopefully I will be able to decipher all of this paper less stuff. If I can get it figured out with all the good avice from in this forum I think I will be happy. So get ready for some elementary questions you experts.

[+EScout]

The trick to organizing your .gpx file is to run it through Spinner (drag the .gpx file over to the Spinner icon and release). But first set up Spinner to do this:

Set your home coordinates, which will give distances and bearing of your home to each cache. Then when you run Plucker, use the "index_by_bearing_home.htm: file. Then you can look in a certain direction, and distance.

 

If you want to do more filtering, run the .gpx through Watcher first. Or use GSAK to filter and create a directory to Pluck. It also gives you bearings and distances.

 

It also helps to have a map program where you can convert the .gpx file to waypoints on the map to visually see where you want to go. Streets and Trips can be had for as little as $15 after rebate.

 

Regarding ink cartridges, I can get Epson 900 color ones for $3 locally--yes, they are new, fresh and work well. I will find the name of the manufac-store here in the LA area that makes/sells them.

[+W7WT]

It may sound like I am bragging about my age (almost 79). I am just glad I can do as well as I am. I bought a iQue 3600 in November. I know how he must feel. I am too proud (stuburn) to ask for help. All I could get was the very basic information from the pocket queries. I just didn't understand that I needed the gpx format to get all the information. I got cachemate and it does it all. On the forum I found a

step by step procedure by Peztone. I printed it out and followed it. It was so simple once I knew the procedure. Now I can use my iQue to route me to the cache. I still use my 76S for the hunt and carry all the information I need on the iQue. I am still learning and right now I am somewhat confused by the new Pocket

Queries procedures but I still manage to get the cache information on my iQue.

If I had asked for help I am sure I would have been paperless several weeks ago.

ASK Dick, W7WT

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Here is some and excerpt from some advice given her and I appreciate it. I do not understand it, but it was given by way of explanation.

"Run the *.GPX file through Spinner"

Sorry I didn't give you a step-by-step detailed lesson on how to all this. I assumed you would be capable of reading the help file/instructions for each software program once you knew which ones to use.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I didn't figure out how the spinner/plucker combo worked right away either. Read CyBret's help page (the link is in one of the above posts somewhere), it really is useful.

 

What's wrong with having "extra" caches pages in your Palm? Downloading all caches in a certain area might give you several you will never do, but it saves you from having to select individual caches to download.

[+crzycrzy]

I've been trying to figure out why my VCR blinks for years.

 

Please...

 

D-D

 

....

 

...D-Don't K-K-Kill me !

 

[The_Brownies]

Ok, my turn to be confused... how are you using his profile to determine age?? 

 

Looked at his gallery and he did not appear to be of the younger generation, and from the general tone of his message led me to think he was not a young whipper snapper..

 

Update on printer-- HP4 laserjet $100 on ebay. I found at least 6 of them. Toner cartridge $80-90 bucks and it will print 8000 - 9000 black and white pages. Toner should last a normal family 1 to 2 years before they need to replace the toner. We use the HP4 all the time at work on a NT Network. It works WUNDERBAR for printing out cache pages, and it is fast. I believe 6 to 8 pages per minute. Might be faster.. The only time you might want to use an inkjet is for color printing or when your kids have to have a color report for school. Almost forgot printing out pictures. Definatlely need one there. I guess my point here is if you simply want to print out cache pages pickup an old laserjet.

Edited January 31, 2004 by The_Brownies

[+flask]

i got sick of carrying around reams of printouts for caches i might visit, not to mention edited versions of BM datasheets. oy.

 

cachemate lets me just search, instead of rifling a tall stack of printouts.

 

and i did not understand how to use them at first, either.

[+treemoss2]

OK, all. I am 53. I am not a total jerk on the computer. I know many who are much worse, and younger.

Hey, I just like caching. I am intrigued by the techie approach to all this. On these forums I am always amazed at the lengths people have gone to incorporating GPS,PDAs, laptops, antennas, topo, mapsend, etc into their geocaching.

Personally I am not one to need 500 caches or the ability to get 25 queries a day to geocache. I am more into the remote/hike-in sort of caches and not the drive up park and cache sorts of ones. If you look at the ones I have found you would see.

The techies I have to applaud.

 

So, because I know it is possible, and because it does intrigue me, I will still work at this paperless thing. When I wrote that note yesterday I had been on this #$%^%$&*(*@ computer for 4 hours. I failed to get out on my mtn bike yesterday when it was 50+ outside and right now, today, it is snowing.

 

It is kind of heartening to see that others have been in the same boat as myself.

I'll be trying again, but I still think that for some the paper way may be the way to go.

I'll keep posted here for tips and explanations and I'll be posting my questions should they arise.

The neanderthal has spoken.

[+harleycache]

For what it's worth, I'm 52, and love the paperless method. I have looked at same of the software people have talked about, and tried different types, but have found Cachemate (a very well-spent $7) is for me the easiest to work with.

 

In fact, I just opened my email, downloaded my newest PQ's, and they're now in the PDA in just a matter of moments.

 

Play around, find one that works, I'm sure you won't regret it.

 

[+GeckoGeek]

Me, I am going back to paper. I am not in need of having 500 caches in my PD and my GPS. Until it gets so I can refine the search to only the caches I want I think I'll be putting my PDA aside.

No, it doesn't save you any time, but it does allow you to geocache at the spur of the moment without having to get to a place where you can run printouts.

 

When calculating time, be sure to factor in how long you sat at the computer deciding what to print. You may find you're happier if you download the whole bunch and spend that time using a PC or PDA program to decide what to geocache. In the end you might find it's about the same amount of time. Paperless just cuts the cost of printing and allows you to be more spontaneous.

 

For selecting caches, you might try GSAK as a graphical front end to select by location. You might also consider loading the files into USAPhotoMap to see them all plotted out. You might consider loading 500 caches into CacheMate and using the bookmarked feature to select what you're hunting for today.

Edited January 31, 2004 by GeckoGeek

[+robert]

You're making it a bit more difficult than it needs to be if youre using CacheMate.

 

FORGET Spinner.

FORGET Plucker.

FORGET Flipper, Flopper, and Flooper, or whatever else you've been recommended.

 

In CacheMate, download all the caches through your GPX file to your PDA. Pick the caches you want to go to online, and use CacheMate to set up a separate category for those caches, and change those caches to that category. So let's say you're planning to hit three caches. Find those three caches in Cachemate and change the category to the one you set up for that day. When you switch to that category, only those 3 caches will be shown. No need to delete the other ones. If you decide to hit another cache while you were out, you have the other caches at your disposal.

 

It's quite simple with CacheMate. That other stuff just complicates things when they don't need to be complicated for paperless caching.

[+El Diablo]

I can understand where he's coming from. I haven't tried to download any caches to my PDA as of yet, because it looks too complicated. I'm sure it's not, once I figure it out. Meanwhile until they put a button on the cache page that will automatically sync it to my PDA, I'll use the old fashion way.

 

Also to save you time from digging through my profile...I'm 44.

 

El Diablo

[+NightPilot]

The easiest way to go paperless is certainly Cachemate. Just run CMConvert, to convert the .gpx files to Cachemate format, and hotsync your PDA. The caches will go into Cachemate, and from Cachemate you can upload the waypoints directly to your GPS, if you have a cable to connect them. Of if you have a bluetooth-enabled PDA and a bluetooth GPS, you don't even need the cable. If all you have is a cable to connect the GPS to your PC, then you need something else, and that something else is GSAK. It will convert the .gpx file to several formats, and upload the waypoints to your GPS.

 

If you want more elegant, after you learn the basics, then GSAK and Plucker make the cache pages look very nice on your PDA - if you have a hi-resolution Palm, they look almost exactly like what you see on your PC. I carry my Palm with me wherever I go, and I also have my GPS most of the time in my truck, so if I suddenly decide to try geocaching on the spur of the moment, I can do it wherever I am, with no further preparation. I have plenty of caches on the Palm, so I can always find the nearest. If I'm going on a trip, I can load every cache between home and wherever I'm going, and go out whenever and wherever I get a chance, with no need for paper or anything I don't have all the time.

 

It does take some study and practice, but it's worth it to me. I try to learn something new every day, and enjoy doing it. BTW, I'm 56, but puters don't intimidate me, I spend time and learn about them. It ain't rocket science.

[+SBPhishy]

As for using the watch list, I am aware of the ability to just query my watch list. I understand the premise of that to select only those caches that I want. However, that means I have to remove the caches on my watchlist I would still like to watch just for the sake of the query. I guess I can do that.

 

You put them on your watch list, and on the query page, you select, CACHES THAT ARE ON MY WATCH LIST, and this is the key part that you missed, you also select THAT I HAVE NOT FOUND. you will only get the query of those specific ones. You dont have to mess with the others on your watch list.

[uperdooper]

I've been trying to figure out why my VCR blinks for years.

 

Please...

maybe it has something in its eyes.

 

i still use paper because i don't have a pda. still saving for a new computer.

[+briansnat]

I drove around with stacks of cache pages on a clipboard. Sometimes they'd fall out and I'd have a pile scattered around the car. When travelling, I'd print out 20 or, more cache pages near my destination...find 4 or 5 of them and have the rest laying in a pile...or scattered around the car, or my desk. Before I knew it, I had stacks of cache sheets all over the house. On my desk, top of my fridge, in my backpack, breifcase...you name it.

 

Now I have the 500 closest not found on my PDA. Takes me about 5 minutes to load the whole shebang....about the same amount of time it took to call up and print out 5 cache pages.

 

And it saves me a lot of time in other ways. I have the 500 closest not founds on my GPS. When I was running errands, visiting friends and relatives, or just driving around, I'd check my GPS to see if there were any caches nearby. I'd have the waypoint, but no idea if I was looking for a virt, multi, regular, or what. And when I'd get there, I'd have no description, or clue. I wasted a lot of time searching for a real cache at what was supposed to be a virtual...or figuring out that it was a virtual, but having no idea what verification info was required. Now if I see a nearby cache waypoint on my GPS, I go to the PDA, do a quick search and there is the page, complete with clue and the last 5 logs.

 

If I travel, I do a PQ for the nearest 200 or so caches to my destination, download them to the PDA in a few minutes and I'm ready to go....a lot easier than printing 200 cache pages. My only complaint is "WHY THE HECK DID I WAIT SO LONG ?!!" I was at this sport for over 2 years before I went paperless. The whole process couldn't be easier and my thanks to everyone who developed all these programs.

 

BTW, I use Plucker and Spinner.

Edited February 1, 2004 by briansnat

[+nonnipoppy]

Again as others have said I am 57. I got tired of spending the time printing cache pages before we went out caching. My caching partner nonni likes to read the previous logs and that caused me to print lots of paper. Over her objection we went paperless and now we both love it.

 

I also had a few problems figuring out the Palm. There was just no prior experience in my life to build upon. But with the help of really nice folks here on the forums I finally worked it out. Paperless is far better and you will get it figured out and agree, I think. ..poppy

[+robert]

The easiest way to go paperless is certainly Cachemate. Just run CMConvert, to convert the .gpx files to Cachemate format, and hotsync your PDA.

That's the SECOND easiest. First easiest is GPXSonar on a PocketPC. Just drag and drop the GPX file from your computer to your PocketPC and GPXSonar will open it. CacheMate rules for Palm, though!