Copyright?

[SunshineSnuz]

I do a lot of lurking around here and recently an issue was brought up in another post that I have been curious about for a while.

 

What is the etiquette for 'borrowing' a cache idea from another user? (ie, someone out of state)

In the other post someone made the comment that most ideas are borrowed and then 'refined'... I understand that but what if the idea itself was so original and unique that you basically wanted to 'reproduce' the cache?

Would you, as the original cache owner, mind? Would it be best to email the cache owner and get 'approval'?

 

I have seen where in the case of Puzzle or Mystery caches that some people are very particular about others not 'stealing' their ideas, do you think the same goes for unique cache containers?

 

I have occasionally noticed caches by different people that almost look identical, down to the wording, sometimes with recognition to the 'original', other times not... Is that kosher?

 

Not wanting to cause any trouble, just curious.

 

Thanks for any input!

[+Stunod]

Personally, I'd ask permission and give credit on the cache page.

[+parkrrrr]

Just so as not to further muddy some already pretty opaque waters, please note that "copyright" as such doesn't apply to ideas, only to expressions of those ideas.

 

The sort of intellectual property protection that applies to ideas would be patents, and the kinds of things we dream up for geocaches generally aren't worth patenting.

 

That said, I'd still give credit if I borrowed someone's cache idea, and I'd only borrow it if I had their permission to do so.

[+carleenp]

For something where I got the idea from a specific cache, I would ask the cache owner for permission and give them credit for the idea. That just seems polite to me. On the other hand, many ideas come from posts in the forums. At that point, it is hard to give credit for a general idea that likely ends up used in another way. For example, I like the owl idea posted earlier, so now I am thinking about various animal caches but not considering copying a specific cache. Then, I wouldn't seek permission or consent from anyone because there would not be a single source to give credit to.

[+CYBret]

I've found a couple caches that I thought were incredibly clever, but out of courtesy to the owners I did not copy them. One exceptionally clever one, though, I told a couple local cachers about and since then two copy-cats have turned up. No biggie, though, the original is now archived.

 

I had a cacher email me recently after completing my latest multi and asked if it would be ok if he used some of the things I did in his new multi. My encouragement was "Adapt, don't adopt." Sure, there are some elements that will always be similar, but I'd like to think we can learn from each other and add our own uniqueness to a new cache.

 

Maybe this is one of the benefits of taking a trip and doing some caches outside of your own immediate area. You might be able to learn a few things to bring back home to entertain the locals with.

 

Bret

[+Ish-n-Isha]

I asked permission to do some of his caches I had admired, in our town and was told it was no problem. I later found out that the ones I had admired were also copys of the origonals. When some people from another town did our caches they asked me for permission to do them there. I think that makes theirs like 5th generation copys, and they still are good and have brought many people alot of fun.

When this sport was newer every cache was a new experience. Now its a long time in between caches we haven seen before.

 

Asking is a small price to pay for the chance to reproduce an idea you enjoyed alot. The person who gave you that thrill deserves to be asked.

[+bigredmed]

For something where I got the idea from a specific cache, I would ask the cache owner for permission and give them credit for the idea. That just seems polite to me. On the other hand, many ideas come from posts in the forums. At that point, it is hard to give credit for a general idea that likely ends up used in another way. For example, I like the owl idea posted earlier, so now I am thinking about various animal caches but not considering copying a specific cache. Then, I wouldn't seek permission or consent from anyone because there would not be a single source to give credit to.

Not only is it polite, but for the next person, crediting the original will make it easier to research the idea you had to see more examples of how it worked or didn't.

 

A couple of years ago, I wanted to set up a sunken cache in the Elkhorn river west of town after reading about them. Couldn't get my ammo box to sink. Changed to a mortar tube (which gained some interest as a cache container for a while). Still no luck. Ultimately, I hid it on land and the river buried it for me.

 

Would have been nice to look up underwater caches and be able to avoid all this and still have either a functioning underwater cache or an above ground geocache.

[+rooboy]

Immitation is the sincerest form of flatery!

 

RooBoy

[+rusty_tlc]

....

 

Maybe this is one of the benefits of taking a trip and doing some caches outside of your own immediate area. You might be able to learn a few things to bring back home to entertain the locals with.

 

Bret

Good advice, I also "take a trip and never leave the farm" by looking at cache pages from other areas. Sometimes I do a search on a key word then browse through the results.

[+briansnat]

I don't think permission is required to copy an idea, but a note to the originator is nice. Something like "What a great idea, I hope you don't mind if I copy it". If they mind, tough...unless they are a local...ya never want to tick off locals.

 

Outside the traditional geocache, every variation came from some innovative geocacher. Virtuals, multis, micros, moving caches, puzzles and locationless were all the ideas of one person that caught on. I doubt everybody asked permission in every instance, but it is polite to give credit, or at least tell the person you are going to use their idea.

[SE7EN]

At this point in the game, it's going to be fairly hard to come up with something that no one has thought of before.

 

I do have a couple of ideas rolling around in my head that I haven't seen before, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it hadn't been thought of or even implimented.

[+Renegade Knight]

At this point in the game, it's going to be fairly hard to come up with something that no one has thought of before.

 

I do have a couple of ideas rolling around in my head that I haven't seen before, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it hadn't been thought of or even implimented.

Ditto. At any given time I've got 20 or 30 cache ideas floating around waiting for me to do something with them. Most of them are things I've not seen but I truly doubt that any one of them doesn't have a brother cache out there somewhere even if it's just an idea another cacher has.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Immitation is the sincerest form of flatery!

 

RooBoy

I found a couple of unique methods of hiding and felt very comfortable stealing the ideas without drawing up a formal contract.

[+rover-r-us]

i have had cachers who have done my caches said they are going to borrow my idea's and thats ok when me .just give me the credit

[SunshineSnuz]

Thanks for all the input! Actually most of you confirmed what I was feeling. I have learned a lot through these forums and y'all really have some great ideas out there. When/IF I ever decide to place my own cache I would like it to be more than just a piece of tupperware hidden in an URP. Would hope to come up with something slighty 'different', whether that be a great camo job, an interesting micro, or just a wacky hiding spot. But of course, with all the innovative minds out there it's probably been done. Such is life.

 

I guess my big deal (which I'm mostly over now, was just having a bad day at work) is not only 'borrowing' someones idea but basically plagerizing the cache page as well, with no credit. I've thought about it and 'people are people', whether in work or in play there are always going to be those that pass others ideas as their own. Used to have a boss that would always make me send emails on research that I did, then she would 'cut and paste' my email into her own and send it on. Just really chapped my hide at times.

 

Since I don't know the people involved I shouldn't even be concerned about it but I guess for me it's always nice to know that someone appreciated the effort I put into something. (I don't know that emails HAVEN'T passed between the people in question, they very well could have, I just don't see any credit on the page).

 

Anyway, just sounds like I'm whining now and since I'm obviously just a tad verbose I'll quit. (no, not caching, no geocide for me , just the rambling!)

 

Thanks again for all the input and the constant amusement.

[+Touchstone]

I find the forums incredibly useful for cache ideas. I try to give credit on my pages when the idea has come from a particular individual or cache. One one occassion the idea for one of my caches came from a thread, rather than one particular individual so I didn't give credit for that one (it was kind of a variation from the topic anyway).

 

However, on one occassion I did a Morse Code Puzzle cache. Now I know there has got to be a ton of caches out there that you have to decode some Morse code, but for the life of me, I couldn't find one in the searches I made. Sure enough, after a week or so of the cache being up, I was contacted by a team in the bay area with a similar cache (much harder than my measley effort). I put a note in my description giving credit to the team and directing people to the other cache.

[Palex]

I wouldn't place a cache that is the same unless they are about fifty miles away

 

I would ask the owner too, and give them credit.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I was given permission to use a particular idea. As credit on my cache page I say that "A cacher in Arizona gave me the idea to do this". That way I don't give too much of a hint in case someone is in town from Arizona (We're only 8 hours from Phoenix). My cache is identical in concept, but it appears different.

[The_Brownies]

If you like an idea use it but put your own personal spin on it. Also, maybe the person who's idea you are thinking of using copied someone else? Don't sweat it. Use the idea, but change it to suit your needs, and maybe put your own personal touch on it.

 

If you are going to use the idea word for word, and you feel guilty about it, simply include a blurb saying this cache was inspired by such and such. There is nothing wrong with that. I have seen a cache page recently that mentions the fact that one of my caches inspired him to create his new cache. He did not ask me for permission, and I guess I could care less. In my neck of the woods, it is awesome to see new caches pop up, and I welcome new caches, regardless of the fact that someone used one of my ideas.

Edited January 27, 2004 by The_Brownies

[+yumitori]

At what point does an idea become 'public domain'? I'm familiar with some of the hides Ish-n-Isha is referring to, but after seeing them three or four times in other areas who do I contact if I want to import one of them locally? If I write all of the cache owners and some say go ahead and some say don't, do I listen to the originator or those who don't want the idea to spread? How do I even determine who thought up the concept first?

[BeadBoy]

I agree there are very few "new" ideas at this stage in the game. If you come up with an "original" idea and then find it wasn't its still your idea. If you borrow an idea as long as its a fair distance away its still good as long as you give the original owner credit.

Edited January 28, 2004 by BeadBoy

[+Ish-n-Isha]

At what point does an idea become 'public domain'? I'm familiar with some of the hides Ish-n-Isha is referring to, but after seeing them three or four times in other areas who do I contact if I want to import one of them locally? If I write all of the cache owners and some say go ahead and some say don't, do I listen to the originator or those who don't want the idea to spread? How do I even determine who thought up the concept first?

If you have knowledge of a 3rd or 4th generation cache, you might guess that its not a "patented" idea. Of our mentioned cache, I believe each gave credit to the hider where they encountered it. It would have been better possibly to give credit where credit is due and have asked permission of OtisPug!