+wildlifeguy Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 (edited) And as asked before. How deep in the snow is this plaque most of the year? Who would want to dig through 30 feet of snow to find the plaque, micro or not? As for the information, if the plaque is at the top of the mountain, make it a multi stage cache using information from the plaque and put the main cache at the bottom of the hill. After all, your sking down to the bottom anyway, right? Calm down and be sure to use the RIGHT FORM TO QUIT. logscaler. WHAT!! &^%$# You think I'm not ^$%^7878^$#& Calm!??!! What about you, you ^^^$$&, do you &*$&, or are you just a ^*(#()&**.!!! I want this #&&(&^%^ cache accepted, and I want it accepted #^(*&@^@^%% now!!! Ahh.. but seriously, this cache is at the top of a mountain that stands about 700 feet higher than a MUCH bigger mountain that makes up the ski area. The top of this "bump" is wind blown commonly by gusts 50MPH plus! It is not an area for an ordinary cache. Due to the high winds, there isn't much snow on this particular area, if any. Let me assure you, I am not playing with anyone's mind here. I have a degree from UCLA, and my parents have University degrees. I am an educated adult and am capable of discussing such issues. I have also clearly and calmly discussed this cache via emails with the GEOCaching.com staff. When I use #^*#@^@! talk, it was in jest. I hope you understand that this is game using billion dollar GPS technology and it is all in fun, no offense- but now you $^@# know. One dude didn't take it the right way and wrote me this note about these forum messages: Dear Sir, I am capable of forming my own opinions about third party people with out your unsolicited hate mail. Please keep your opinions of others to yourself, for I really don't wish to hear it. If you have something that particularly pertains to me and the sport of geocaching I would like to hear it, otherwise please do not abuse the right of email that the geocaching website affords you. Sincerely, Wildlifeguy you sent me a personal email with this rant crap you have been spewing in this thread and then tell me that Hemlock sucks. I'm sorry to tell you loser a piece of paper does not make you intelligent. You are an ***, and I don't think it was proper of you to send me an email telling me how much you hate the process set out on this board. If you got a problem don't take it up with me, looking for commisseration like a whining dog. Yeah you got a degree from UCLA, WHoopdee doo, I got a Phd from a real college. I'll tell you it ain't worth the paper it's written on if you can't hold a reasonable conversation. That was the mellowed out version that I sent you because my wife told me to chill, and the n you post it here on an open forum? Your just asking for me to flame you. Here's what you sent to my email account. >From: <RobertAltman@Earthlink.net> >Subject: [GEO] GPSCache contacting you from Geocaching.com >Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:17:16 -0800 > >--This message was sent through the Geocaching.com web site-- > >I don't know if you know this, but Hemlock sucks. It has taken almost 2 weeks to get this cache approved and 10 days between emails from him. Below is the whole thread and the inquiry by the GEOCaching.com site on this antics: > >To: "General Inquiries" <contact@Groundspeak.com> >Subject: Reviewer disappeared, inquiry disappeared. > >Dear Heidi or whom it may concern, > > "Heidi" was working on the inquiry on the below cache. The last email I received from her was on the 20th, and I don't know what happened to her correspondence. > I'm having total trouble with my cache reviewer (not the inquiry) on getting caches accepted. The cache reviewer's name is "Hemlock". Not only was he difficult to work with, although now, he has completely stopped corresponding with getting a simple-to-post virtual accepted. I think that it isn't right also, that he has found no caches and has left none as well. I think that experienced cachers ought to be the ones who review the caches. I think that Hemlock ought to be replaced by a more experienced member. I think that his defiance stems from the only cache he left (which is now archived). If you look at that archived cache's page, you'll see in his final notes, that he is upset with GEOCaching.com. > > Although Hemlock remains a problem, still, I have a cache that is sitting archived for almost two weeks-ready to be posted. Below is a link to the cache, and a complete description of what the cache is about: > >Link to Lincoln Remembrance Cache: >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=111174 > > > >Here is a complete description of what the cache is all about: > > The cache is within The Mammoth Mountain Ski Area. Mammoth Ski Area leases the land from the Inyo National Forest. Since Mammoth Ski Area is a company, I feel that a physical cache is inappropriate. So my cache is a virtual. > This particular cache, is at the top of a mountain within the Mammoth Ski Area. This mountain is basically a bump that is about 700 feet high on top of the much bigger Mammoth Mountain. This 700 foot bump is so big, that it actually has a name. It's name is Lincoln Mountain. On top of Lincoln Mountain is a small memorial in the form of a plaque. > > The reason I want to make this a cache, is that there is a ski lift that ends about 20 feet below the summit of the mountain. I think that it would be neat, if people would have to ride a ski lift to get to a cache. If they chose not to ride the ski lift, it would be a big climb through the snow, or in the summer, it would still be a big climb. > The reason that I grade the cache 1 in difficulty and 5 in terrain is.. Getting to the cache is very easy, in fact, I say on the cache page that it is at the top of Lincoln Mountain do they know where to go. The reason I give the terrain the grade 5 is that they need to ride a ski lift and have skis or snowboard. 5 terrain is right I feel since it is a 700 foot mountain and it requires climbing in the summer or winter. Plus, they need to get to the mountain within the Mammoth Mountain Ski area terrain-it's not right by a road. > > I hope this clears up any questions you have. > > Please contact me in regards to making this cache active. > >Thank you, >Robert Charles Altman >GPSCache > > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Old Letters between reviewer and myself: > > >Dear Hemlock, > > I do think this cache is good. It is also at the summit of a mountain. If I had them climb to the top of Lincoln Mountain to do something.. to complete cache.. I feel that something like a question and answer test is good. Basically, the cacher needs to get to the top of the mountain-that's part of the test. In the summer, they need to climb, in the winter they climb or ride a lift. Also, you can't get to the summit unless you hike up there-you can't ski or snowboard up there even from the top of the ski lift. > Please tell me what is wrong with the cache-specifically. I want to do this cache and include the top of this mountain. There IS a way do make this cache work. Rather than just discard it and quit, I want to know what will MAKE IT WORK. > >Please write back in a timely manner. I waited almost 2 weeks for your last reply. > >Sincerely, >Robert Charles Altman >GPSCache > > > >At 11:54 AM 1/23/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > > There is a memorial on the top of > > mountain within the Mammoth Ski Area. > >I'm sorry, but I do not feel that this virtual cache meets the guidelines. > >The guidelines, posted at >http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#addvirt >state: > >2. A virtual cache must be novel, of interest to other players, and have a >special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets it apart from >everyday subjects. Since the reward for a virtual cache is the location, the >location should oWOW the prospective finder. Signs, memorials, >tombstones or historical markers are among the items that are generally too >common to qualify as virtual caches. > >Note the last sentence, which I paraphrase: > >Memorials and tombstones are generally too common to qualify as virtual caches. > >That's not to say they never do. I often approve memorials for people who have had >a great impact on history. > > > How come you have so much trouble accepting caches? > > And especially virtual ones? > >I approve every cache that meets the guidelines. Which means about 95% of >physical caches submitted, and unfortunately very few virtual caches submitted. This >is consistent with the approval rates of every other reviewer around the world. > >As I'm sure you've seen, there are a great many "lame" virtual caches that were >submitted and approved before March, 2003. At that time, the guidelines were >significantly tightened up to increase the overall quality of virtual caches. This was >done in response to many complaints from the community. > >Please note that I'm not saying your cache is lame. I hold high respect for ski >patrollers and anyone else who risk their life in the line of duty. I just don't feel we >need to make a virtual cache out of every memorial to them. > >Sincerely, >Hemlock > > > > >At 11:20 AM 1/20/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >Robert, > >"The wrong cache you checked by the inquiry. The cache I'm writing about >is >still archived.. Here's the letter I wrote:" Then you followed up with >the same email. I have attached my reply again since you did not read it, >I cannot help you unless you read the replies you are given. > >At 05:10 PM 1/19/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > >I would be happy to look into your problems with the cache reviewer > >Hemlock, but I will need adequate information to do so. Will you send me > >copies of any additional correspondence on this cache. From what you have > >sent me, it appears Hemlock archived your cache pending additional > >information which you did not provide. I am sure with more information, I > >will see the situation with more clarity. > > > >Happy Geocaching! > > > >Heidi > >Again, I would be more than happy to look into your situation, but I will >need more information from you. > >Happy Geocaching! > >Heidi > > >Original Message Follows: >------------------------ >From: Robert Charles Altman <RobertAltman@Earthlink.net> >Subject: Re: [#74600] [LOG] Owner: Hemlock archived Lincoln Remembrance >(Virtual Cache) >Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:30:09 -0800 > >The wrong cache you checked by the inquiry. The cache I'm writing about is > >still archived.. Here's the letter I wrote: > > > > >To: report@geocaching.com >Subject: What happened to reviewer? > >Dear GEOCaching.com, > > I'm having problems with my reviewer. His name is "Hemlock" >http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=6669cb9f-303c-4c4f-93e7-f169489d9f44.'>http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=6669cb9f-303c-4c4f-93e7-f169489d9f44. > >He won't return my email and he's also been very stubborn and difficult to > >work with on my other caches he's reviewed. Below is the last letter I >sent >to him, in which he hasn't returned. > The cache he's archived is this one: >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=111174 > >Please help me complete the approval of this cache. > >Thank you, >Robert Charles Altman >GPSCache > > > > > > > > > >At 05:10 PM 1/19/2004 -0800, you wrote: > >Robert, > > > >I would be happy to look into your problems with the cache reviewer > >Hemlock, but I will need adequate information to do so. Will you send me > >copies of any additional correspondence on this cache. From what you >have > >sent me, it appears Hemlock archived your cache pending additional > >information which you did not provide. I am sure with more information, >I > >will see the situation with more clarity. > > > >Happy Geocaching! > > > >Heidi > > > > > >Original Message Follows: > >------------------------ > >From: Robert Charles Altman <RobertAltman@Earthlink.net> > >Subject: Re: [LOG] Owner: Hemlock archived Lincoln Remembrance (Virtual > >Cache) > >Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 21:44:58 -0800 > > > >Dear GEOCaching.com, > > > > I'm having problems with my reviewer. His name is "Hemlock" > >http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=6669cb9f-303c-4c4f-93e7-f169489d9f44.'>http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=6669cb9f-303c-4c4f-93e7-f169489d9f44. > > > >He won't return my email and he's also been very stubborn and difficult >to > > > >work with on my other caches he's reviewed. Below is the last letter I > >sent > >to him, in which he hasn't returned. > > The cache he's archived is this one: > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=111174 > > > >Please help me complete the approval of this cache. > > > >Thank you, > >Robert Charles Altman > >GPSCache > > > > > > > >Dear Hemlock, > > > > How come you have so much trouble accepting caches? And especially > >virtual ones? > > > > Ray Critton was Ski Patroller. There is a memorial on the top of > >mountain within the Mammoth Ski Area. The area is leased from the Inyo > >National Forest. Since Mammoth Ski Area is a company, I don't want to put > >it on their land. I've already explained this? Don't you read my emails?? > >This information was not only provided on the cache page, but also on the > >message sent directly to you. > > > >Sincerely, > >Robert Charles Altman > >GPSCache > > > > > >At 08:00 PM 1/14/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > >This is an automated message from Geocaching.com > > > > > >You are receiving this email because you are the owner of this listing. > > > > > >Hemlock archived Lincoln Remembrance (Virtual Cache) at 1/14/2004 > > > > > >Log Date: 1/14/2004 > > >Hi, > > > > > >I'm reviewing your virtual cache submission, and I'm going to need a >bit > > >more information. The cache has been temporarily archived while we > >discuss > > >it, and will be un-archived and approved as soon as I can determine if >it > > > > >fits within the guidelines. Guidelines and requirements for virtual > >caches > > >can be found here: > > >http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#addvirt > > > > > >Who is Ray Critton and why does he rate a plaque here? > > > > > >When reviewing a virtual cache we are looking for a number of criteria. > > >The first and most important is why not a physical cache? In many >cases, > >a > > >micro cache can be readily placed at or near the same spot submitted as >a > > > > >virtual cache. An excellent example is here: > > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=93120 > > > > > >If a physical cache is not possible at the site, such as when the > > >land-owner will not permit one, the next question we ask is, can info > >from > > >the site be used as a waypoint in a multi-cache? Often there is a >nearby > > >location where a physical cache can be placed. Numbers from a monument >or > > > > >quantities of some objects could be used in calculating the coordinates > >to > > >the offset physical cache. That would not only bring people to your > > >special spot but give them a physical cache to find as well. A great > > >example of a multi-cache that visits several virtual sites and >concludes > > >with a large container is here: > > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GCGX16 > > > > > >The last thing, in the rare case when a physical or multi-cache is not > > >possible, is for it to pass the 'WOW' test. If I go to this site will >it > > >'WOW' me? So far, based on the limited description, I'm not getting >that > > >feeling. I'm not saying you have to give any more away in the cache > > >description, but for me to approve it I will need more information > >emailed > > >to me. > > > > > >I really believe that a traditional or multi-cache would work well >here. > > >Give it a little thought and I'm sure you can come up with a viable > > >solution. Once you have placed a cache here, you can update this same > > >cache page, then email me and I will be happy to review the cache >again. > > > > > >You may email me at hemlock@geocachingadmin.com or via the link to my > > >profile on the archive log. [red]Please be sure to include the cache >name > > > > >and waypoint GC# or better yet, the URL of the cache page. > > > > > >NOTE: If you reply directly to this email, you MUST change the To email > > >address to hemlock@geocachingadmin.com otherwise the communication will > > >not be received.[/red] > > > > > >Thank you for your understanding, > > >Hemlock > > >Volunteer Cache Reviewer > > > > > > > > >Visit this listing at the below address: > > > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=126cb053-e016-4ff2-8472-f512 > > > 0cea9e76 > > > > > >Visit GCHGF6 > > > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=485aa2fd-d8dc-46d7 > > > -b680-d63e389ecb77 > > > > > >Profile for Hemlock: > > > >http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=6669cb9f-303c-4c4f-93e7-f169489d9f44 > > > > > >Search for caches from this location: > > > >http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?lat=37.6371833333333&lon=-119 > > > .017466666667 > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------ >Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching.com You have been reported Richard Cranium! Peace! [watch the language, I don't care what you use in place of the letters.] edited to remove spoiler info Edited January 24, 2004 by CO Admin Link to comment
Team BooneDog Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 2) Is it possible to see this plaque without paying someone some money. Can you get to the top of the mountain for free? Most, if not nearly all ski areas are public land. When you go skiiing you buy a lift ticket, what you are paying for is use of the lifts to the top of the mountain. So yes, you can get to the top of one of these mountains without paying, but what a walk it would be. Link to comment
+Huntnlady Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Hemlock is a great approver. He has worked with me on two caches that were right at or slightly over the boundaries of being too close to other caches. Hemlock approved a virtual for me. He has worked with other cachers that had new concepts in mind for caches, like the Delorean Challenge. If Hemlock had reasons for archiving the cache, I'm sure he spelled them out explicitly. He has always shown himself to be ready to work with you if there are problems, so just calm down, reread his reasons why it wasn't approved, fix the problems, and then your cache will sail right through. Link to comment
+clearpath Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 >Forward abuse complaints to: contact@geocaching.com You have been reported Richard Cranium! Peace! hehehe ... how appropriate !!! Link to comment
+programmer64 Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 My son is having the same problem with NJADMIN. My son placed a cache and NJADMIN had some concerns,which my son addressed in an email but Mr. Admin didn't get back to him or approve the Cache. Which by the way is a traditional Cache. after several failed attempts I emailed NJADMIN and he hasn't even had the courtesy to email either one of us back. I realize these approvers are volunteers, but have some dadgum courtesy for people! If your'eot going to ever approve a cache someone should know so it doesn't become Cache trash! The first reply I've heard back from either you or your son was yesterday. If I remember right, the caches in question were placed quite some time ago. You also didn't include the GC# or URL in those emails, which make it a lot harder to figure out what caches you are even talking about. EDIT: Ok, I found one cache so far. It was hid 12/28/03, and reviewed on 12/29. At that time, the cache description asked if someone would add a log book. It also looks on the maps to be in an area that forbids people leaving the path. I questioned that, along with if a cache over 60 miles from home could be maintained by someone who doesn't drive yet. I asked for this info to be emailed to me. I see your son posted notes to the cache page, but we only see those when we review the cache, they don't automagically get emailed to me. The first I've hear from you or your son about this cache was over 3 weeks after I inquired. Again I apologize, my son was told to email you and said he did(if he did he did not include URL or CG#). My assumption was he did what he said, but I have no reason to think you would lie to me. I did not know that when we posted notes to an archived cache you wouldn't know about it. I thought you would get an email or something telling you he posted a note for you. I learn something new everyday,and WE have learned a good lesson from this whole debacle. In the future if this happens with any approver,I'll be sure to include in my email a URL,and state my case as to why it should be approved instead of archived. Link to comment
+9Key Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 All that cartoon cussing and the Warn Meter didn't flinch! Gosh! There's not suddenly 30+ feet of snow starting on Dec 21. That's a cumlative total for the year. No one says that you have to place the multi on *top* of the mountain. Dig in that brain(?) and find some creativity. Use the whole mountain. Make cachers go up and down the mountain two or three times in order to complete the cache. Challenge your local cachers! Raise the bar on the hides in your area. Link to comment
+9Key Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 wildlifeguy - I don't think it was necessary to quote the *entire* thing, buddy. Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Then compete with me. Do you have an education? Do you know how to read? Do you have a life? I don't care if you have a lot of posts. You have little to say. Maybe Ray Critton did. I don't see anything to compete against (or with). Yes. I do have an education. A Master's, a Bachelor's, and 2 Associate's degrees. As someone else already said, those aren't worth the paper they're printed on if you can't communicate in a public forum like an adult. Oh, and no, I can't read. I just try to guess what all those little letters are, then just slap around on the keyboard to make a reply. Yes, I have a life. I'm a cat. I have 9 of them. Would you like to borrow one? You have little to say. But I say it so well! Maybe Ray Critton did. Bet he doesn't anymore, though. Link to comment
+wildlifeguy Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 wildlifeguy - I don't think it was necessary to quote the *entire* thing, buddy. Well I think he was trying to flame me so I had to show what this loon was talking about. Sorry, If you read the whole thing, I did and that is what I now regret! I like your idea of challenging his local cachers though. Use some of that education he got from UCLA. Peace! Link to comment
umc Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 The question is; if I lock this thread because its degenerated into nothing but a flame war will another thread pop up just to continue the fire? Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 The question is; if I lock this thread because its degenerated into nothing but a flame war will another thread pop up just to continue the fire? Most likely. Link to comment
+cacheKidds Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Bottom line-is.. are you people lazy? It's a cache, go out and do it and quit your complaining. You have to understand that the only real guideline for the approval of virtual caches is that it must please the approver. Unfortunately, displaying a displeasing attitude will definitely work against you. If you want a virtual to succeed, you have to suck up, not blow down. That's just the way it is. You're 100% right, sir. I strongly disapprove of having to please the approvers. Link to comment
GPSCache Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 (edited) Bottom line-is.. are you people lazy? It's a cache, go out and do it and quit your complaining. You have to understand that the only real guideline for the approval of virtual caches is that it must please the approver. Unfortunately, displaying a displeasing attitude will definitely work against you. If you want a virtual to succeed, you have to suck up, not blow down. That's just the way it is. You're 100% right, sir. I strongly disapprove of having to please the approvers. Yes, there needs to be better communication between the reviewers and the cachers. This particular reviewer had abandoned the project for nearly a week. This cache was intended to be a donation to the cache community rather than a heated debate. Although I feel that there are lots of intelligent cachers out there, I have had a really bad experience with this forum. This forum has really become a hostile place. Moderator, may I suggest closing this topic since I have not received any bit of sympathetic advice I may use! Only ANGER!! Edited January 24, 2004 by GPSCache Link to comment
+robert Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Moderator, may I suggest closing this topic since I have not received any bit of sympathetic advice I may use! Only ANGER!! If you start a thread, you can close it yourself. Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 This forum has really become a hostile place. Hmmmm...wonder how that happened? Link to comment
+carleenp Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 The question is; if I lock this thread because its degenerated into nothing but a flame war will another thread pop up just to continue the fire? Who knows? All I know is that I am now on the verge of a PMS rant, and that wouldn't be good for anyone and would personally be embarrassing to me. What confounds me is the fact that sometimes people don't seem to be embarrassed by their choices of acts and words or how those reflect upon themselves. Not to mention a general lack of respect for others. Uh oh.... gotta stop now, I'm really getting into PMS un-Carleen territory and I know that sometimes people get upset and take things too seriously. Oh never mind. Ick! I'm rolling the eyes at myself here. Link to comment
GPSCache Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 Moderator, may I suggest closing this topic since I have not received any bit of sympathetic advice I may use! Only ANGER!! If you start a thread, you can close it yourself. PLEASE TELL ME HOW! Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Moderator, may I suggest closing this topic since I have not received any bit of sympathetic advice I may use! Only ANGER!! If you start a thread, you can close it yourself. PLEASE TELL ME HOW! It puts the mouse on the "Moderator Options".... It puts the mouse on the "Moderator Options".... It puts the mouse on the "Moderator Options".... NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment
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