Geo-hot Potato III (IIb)

February 1, 2004

Yes, but for different reasons. And I didn't capture the spud ... I let it be. And then closed down Elven to spuds. But we are accepting fried chicken! - CT

1.3k · February 1, 2004

Let's keep this on topic. What was done has been done. I don't see any reason to make any negative comments about Nolenator. He did what he felt he had to do and that is that.

FWIW, I also think that was a well executed move by Team South.

Speaking of....... Team South has dubbed us the Kingons, we should come up with something more interesting for them. Pierceing Headache comes to mind :mad: , but lets be nice about it. Any suggestions from the Potato Gallery????

Edited February 1, 2004 by Wander Lost

February 1, 2004

I think our team would be delighted to be your "Piercing Headache"!

Are we ahead or atleast tied yet?

February 1, 2004

I only followed the last game for a day and a half before it went bad. I didn't really think about "the game" until the tater landed in my cache this morning. As you can see I have put in the nearest cache except Troop 591 for the reason I gave earlier. My actions were not meant to be malicious. Sorry for my disrupting a perfectly good afternoon of being a lard butt watching new commercials and the new Survivor. Peace, Nolenator

February 1, 2004

Ditto to Kfam. I think I personally would take "Piercing Headache" as a compliment. :mad: And as the last Southerner to touch the bug, I at least can take the day off from the game to enjoy Superbowl/Survivor. Even though things didn't quite go as planned for the bug, Perrin and I did have a blast on our mission last night. And I have no doubt that *general* blueheron0 and the other masterminds on Team South can come up with more brilliant plans to keep the Yankees on their toes.

Edit: Oops! I guess Perrin was signed on. This was Faile, and I've never posted on here before :mad:

Edited February 1, 2004 by Perrin

February 1, 2004

I nominate Nolenator honorary member of Team North.

Thanks for posting and being reasonable with us!

February 1, 2004

I think TravisL's statement about not having a non-players involvement affect the game is a very good idea. I can see where it could really mess up a team's strategy.

Since the TB was taken from a cache that isn't available until Tuesday I would recommend that the TB be unavailable until then. It is in Kingon territory and should remain there until the posted park hours of the cache that is was originally placed by Faile.

If this precedent isn't set forth I can see a problems with non-players removing the TB. For example if a non-player, not the cache owner had taken the game TB from the closed park I would imagine what would have happened is that the ref would have made a ruling that a new TB would be made and would be available for play on Tuesday just as the old would have been. This would have removed any affect of the TB being taken by a non-player.

I think that is reasonable and will help stop any "misguided" attempts of possible "unethical" players to involve their non-playing friends to mess up the other teams strategy.

I am not suggesting in any way that the cache owner or anyone on any team is unethical or that this move was done with any malice. I am just thinking ahead.

edit: corrected really bad spelling mistakes.

Edited February 1, 2004 by Happy Gillmore

February 1, 2004

The Piercing Aromas! ;-), but then you get a Piercing Headache. Hmph. The O'Pierce's? Because when they get their hand on that potato, they do some really good 'recipes' with it?

February 1, 2004

Since the TB was taken from a cache that isn't available until Tuesday I would recommend that the TB be unavailable until then.

Team North had a legal strategy of their own for moving the bug before Tuesday so my ruling stands. Potato is in play and Team North has until 10 AM Monday morning to move it before South gets another point.

While I do appreciate the precedence part I think this is something that's going to have to be decided on a case by case basis.

February 1, 2004

The Ref can assess points and penalties anytime without stopping the Potato.

I think making it off-limits 'til tuesday goes against the goal of the travel bug and may be exposing it to more unexpected or unwanted activity.

The tater is in an available, although ineligible (placed after start of game)) cache now. How about giving some Seahawk fans something to do today and keep it HOT!

February 1, 2004

It seems my somewhat benign actions have sparked a good bit of controversy and turmoil. Sounds like a real good episode of Survivor. Maybe I misjudged this game. Have fun! My cache is open for play without any more interference on my part. Peace, Nolenator

February 1, 2004

It seems my somewhat benign actions have sparked a good bit of controversy and turmoil. Sounds like a real good episode of Survivor. Maybe I misjudged this game. Have fun! My cache is open for play without any more interference on my part. Peace, Nolenator

Honestly I'm glad you changed your mind about the game, but I'm still not certain why you felt you HAD to involve yourself in the first place.

Sure its your cache and maybe you felt that the area would get to geo-trashed, but we weren't even the first cachers to be there that day.

Oh well, as I said before, what's done is done. No hard feelings and I'll leave it at that. There's still time for you to join the game if you want :mad:

Heck you've had more contact with the tater at this point than many of the Kingons who are playing :mad:

Edited February 1, 2004 by Perrin

February 2, 2004

Well this is a punch in the guts for some of us.

The recent events whether planned or ignored have pretty much hit the fan. It's caused at least one member of our team to throw in the towel. Maybe more.

I really have to speculate about what this supposed "legal strategy" was. I don't necessarily want to be the one to stir up the bee hive here, but what the hell. If the North would like to elaborate on what it was, or if the ref wouldn't mind sharing since you obviously know what the strategy was.

If there was a legal way of getting to the cache I'll accept that, if the strategy really was to have nolenator go in and remove it, as it seems to some people that I have talked to recently, then I forsee a lot more people quitting.

I hope this didn't come off looking like a bunch of finger pointing. I really tried to avoid it, but there are only so many ways to get a point across in writing.

Hope to hear from some one who knows what the heck is going on.

5.6k · February 2, 2004

OK, so everyone knows what we (I) were planning, and that it did NOT involve anyone 'outside' the game: I am a member of The Mountaineer's and an instructor with their climbing courses. The Mountaineer's have rented the park for the weekend to hold their Basic Climbing Course Belay Field Trip. This gave me legal access to the park while it is closed to the public. I would have the chance to hit the cache and then move the potato. I even checked with the ref prior to fully making the plans, but Nolenator beat me to it. BTW, there are other weekends during the game time that The Mountaineer's will be in the park...

Craig (The Jester)

February 2, 2004

Wow! What luck for you guys.

I thought you were a little too free with the Kudos earlier.

We'll still prevail in the end. Bring it on!

February 2, 2004

For what it is worth/Believe it or not, I had no idea of any plan to get the Bug out of Camp Long before Tuesday when I posted Kudos. South's move was briliant and thus I acknowleged. North having an insider to the Mountaineers was pure luck! Kudos are still in order!

February 2, 2004

Ok I can accept that completely. Faile and I were actually wondering if any of the climbers were cachers as well.

Glad to have that issue put away.

I would have found that a brilliant move by the way

Maybe we can catch the park on the weekends you aren't there... Um what was your group's schedule again?

February 2, 2004

Complete and full ditto to Runhill's comments. South, your strategy was awesome and I applaud you for having ran it by the Ref, too. Let's keep this fun and real, safe and sane! Peace - CT

February 2, 2004

I swore I was going to stay off the forum, but....

We are bowing out, but our issues have nothing to do with anything TeamNorth has done. I said last night that I hoped I would be as gracious as certain North players were in recognizing a brilliant move.

If it had been allowed to proceed normally, this would, indeed, have been an outstanding counter to our move. We'll never know what might have happened. (Jester might have sprained an ankle and been unable to get the bug!) But I want to leave on a positive note, so I say, "Nice move, Team North." I've said all along in our TeamSouth communications that I don't mind being beaten by a good move by the opposition. This would have been exactly that.

See you "out there!"

2.5k · February 2, 2004

Let me just add a note about Nolenator and Team North's communications. Nolenator emailed me after finding that the bug was in his cache and expressed his concern and intention to move the tater. I replied to that email this morning, but that came after he had gone to the park. (He lives just a few blocks from the park entrance.) In my email I explained to him that the game was different this time and that he should not worry about what happened last time. I did not share any of this with the team. They were as surprised as anyone about the move this morning and I am sure that Nolenator had no contact with other team members.

I am familiar with the park and had advised Team North last night that there was a way into the park during closed hours and at the same time advised that we not use that method. If you check the FTF log on that cache, the finder states that he parked very close to the cache. Perrin and Faile can tell you that that is not possible with a normal entry to the park. That finder drove onto a service road of the golf course to the east. We were aware of that route into the cache, but chose to follow the rules.

The move by Team South was brilliant, but it got sidetracked. We all need to be aware that even brilliant plans sometimes fall to events that were not anticipated. I did not know that the Mountaineers had access to the park during normally closed times. I did know that people are allowed to rent cabins for overnight camping so that even though that park may be closed people are legally in the park.

I would have posted this earlier, but I just got home from a volunteer activitity that took all day and just got through reading my email and this forum.

9.5k · February 2, 2004

For what it is worth/Believe it or not, I had no idea of any plan to get the Bug out of Camp Long before Tuesday when I posted Kudos. South's move was briliant and thus I acknowleged. North having an insider to the Mountaineers was pure luck! Kudos are still in order!

I'm with runhills on this. Discovering Jester's involvement with the mountaineers came well after our giving kudos. Honestly there was an on going discussion on what can be done while kudos were given. It was agreed it was a brilliant move on South's part before the possible plan of Jester's part with the moutaineers came up at all.

9.5k · February 2, 2004

I swore I was going to stay off the forum, but....

We are bowing out, but our issues have nothing to do with anything TeamNorth has done. I said last night that I hoped I would be as gracious as certain North players were in recognizing a brilliant move.

If it had been allowed to proceed normally, this would, indeed, have been an outstanding counter to our move. We'll never know what might have happened. (Jester might have sprained an ankle and been unable to get the bug!) But I want to leave on a positive note, so I say, "Nice move, Team North." I've said all along in our TeamSouth communications that I don't mind being beaten by a good move by the opposition. This would have been exactly that.

See you "out there!"

Sorry to see you guys go and hope in the end y'all will change your minds on this. Just consider it a speed bump in the grand scheme of life in general. It could easily have gone the other way had it been in South territory under the exact same circumstances.

February 2, 2004

The recent events whether planned or ignored have pretty much hit the fan. It's caused at least one member of our team to throw in the towel. I really have to speculate about what this supposed "legal strategy" was.

I can't help anyone who gives up because their attempt at a sneaky trick turns out to have a perfectly valid loophole. There seems to be prevailing notion that one's expectations (i.e. we don't expect that anyone could possibly legitimately be in a park after posted hours [what if we had a night park ranger on our team?], we don't expect that a cache owner or a totally uninvolved person would ever move a bug in their cache, etc.) should be the basis of the rules. I don't think that's a fair way to operate a game.

As for our legal strategy, the ref was consulted before any preparations were made to pursue it. (Which were thwarted inadvertently by the cache owner.) Some may find this next statement inflammatory, but I think it's common sense: if you so strongly disagree with the ref's assessments, it's very possible that you're in the wrong game.

February 2, 2004

I wasnt going post anything but thought about it for a while and after reading my teamamates comments I decided to post this statement about this last issue. I will not respond to any comments made after my statement I just want to say it and be done with it.

Ok here is my .02 cents worth

If jester did have permission to go in and practice rock climbing that still wouldn't make it legal to go and get the cache in my opinion. The rules say that if a park is closed then you CANNOT GET THE CACHE. It doesn't say if it is closed but if you have permission to go do something else you can sneak off and get the cache. The rules are in place so it is fair for everyone, having one person on the King County Team have permission to go into a closed park is crap! This makes it an unfair balance to the teams. Even if it is for something completely unrelated to geocaching! He should be able to go and do his climbing but the park is still closed under normal circumstances so it should be unavailable to him and to all!!!

I also think that the TB should have been placed back in the original cache after nolenator changed his mind and things were worked out. We are not playing football or baseball where a play has to stand because people are watching on tv. We are playing a kids game and as I recall...when I used to play those simple games with friends we used to get in arguements all the time when there was a question about a call. Most of the time if we couldnt figure it out, what did we do...A DO OVER!!! Thats right a do over. I dont see why one couldnt have been put into effect here. Sometimes we as adults try to make too much of it and screw it up...case in point how this game has become. I dont think someone would of had a problem going and getting the cache and having a do over...maybe someone needs to make that an official rule

These two issues I stated above have changed the whole complexion of the game...granted probably nobodys fault but probably to a degree all of our faults. I will be the first to say I am competative as will most of you but I think most of us geocache not to be competative but to get outside and have fun, be a "kid" and treasure hunt...(as a side that is what my 4 year old nephew calls it as I ams sure others call it) meet people and get some excercise. I have met some very nice people, I really enjoyed the pizza party and look forward to more events like that to get to know more of you.

To cut this short well to not make it longer I will say that this has ceased to be fun so I will no longer be playing the potato game. I look forward to seeing others on the field when our competative blood has cooled down and geocache in piece. Like my teammate blueheron said...this sport has become part of who I am and I dont want the game to screw that up. I look forward to seeing more of you out and about. I would like to thank travis for trying to make this game work and for all the hard work he put into it. It was a great idea (maybe we should set it up for just kids...they probably wont screw it up just kidding)

Maybe my comments will spark some dialogue and the ref will change some of his rulings and that will help save this game...to late for me but maybe save others from leaving. Take care and see ya out there. bilbo19

February 2, 2004

Everyone keeps saying "Let's just have fun." I agree. So I'm leaving the game.

I'm going back to what was fun, geocaching. It's simple, it's fun, it is competitive, but in a fun way (who wants to be STF?). I came into this game, and the one before, to have fun. It is no longer fun.

I'm not having fun if I have ill feelings towards other players and rulings. I can't agree with everything that has happened or been allowed to happen and I don't like having these feelings towards good people who may have gotten a little too caught up in the game.

I have met some great cacher. I look forward to meeting more great cachers on the trails.

I hope those of you who choose to stay have fun.

February 2, 2004

The recent events whether planned or ignored have pretty much hit the fan. It's caused at least one member of our team to throw in the towel. I really have to speculate about what this supposed "legal strategy" was.

I can't help anyone who gives up because their attempt at a sneaky trick turns out to have a perfectly valid loophole. There seems to be prevailing notion that one's expectations (i.e. we don't expect that anyone could possibly legitimately be in a park after posted hours [what if we had a night park ranger on our team?], we don't expect that a cache owner or a totally uninvolved person would ever move a bug in their cache, etc.) should be the basis of the rules. I don't think that's a fair way to operate a game.

As for our legal strategy, the ref was consulted before any preparations were made to pursue it. (Which were thwarted inadvertently by the cache owner.) Some may find this next statement inflammatory, but I think it's common sense: if you so strongly disagree with the ref's assessments, it's very possible that you're in the wrong game.

Sorry, have to disagree with you here. Just because some one disagrees with a decision by a referee doesn't mean they are in the wrong game.

I've been involved with sports my whole life and have disagreed with the officials involved countless times. I've even disagreed so strongly with them that I've been kicked out of games. Not that I'm proud of those actions, but that in know way means I'm "in the wrong game".

If people gave things up everytime they disagreed with the person in charge, we would eventually run out of activities that might possiblly be the "right game" for us.

I've even admitted previously to Jester, that I accepted the fact that he could have gone in a picked up the bug while he was there with the Mountaineers. I didn't have a problem with that. Some of my teammates did, but I disagreed with them on this point.

I did, however, disagree with the prevailing notions of one's expectations comment. We didn't have any "notions" about what the rules for the park were. We had a picture that proved when the park hours were, in both the Baxter cache situation and the cache at Dumas Bay Centre. I guess maybe we had a notion that the rules would be followed by people playing the game. We knew there was a chance that some one outside the game might ignore the rules. But as far as that is concerned, we assumed the ref would call time out or call a redo of some sort.

So the only "notion" we really got burned on in the end was our thought about what the ref's call would be. And in the end, the ref's word is law and you play on if he doesn't call a foul. Even if you are upset.

I think the reason people are bowing out is more because they're tired of dealing with this arguing nonsense. So in the end, my fans and humble readers, you will all read this and pull your own meanings from my words, whether they were what I truly meant or not. And unfortunately there is very little I can do about that. Signing off for now. Going back to the game in some form or other.

Edited February 2, 2004 by Perrin

February 2, 2004

I want to make sure that everybody knows that I was not enlisted by TeamNorth to do something covert. The potato landed in my cache and I moved it because I didn't want my cache to be part of "the game". It seems that I have become an even bigger part of the game because of my actions. I honestly would like to appologize for disrupting the game. As I stated before, my cache is in play and there will be no further interference on my part. To the two people from TeamSouth who visited Camp Long, I hope your enjoyed my favorite park, come again in the springtime the trilliums are awesome. Peace, Nolenator

February 2, 2004

Less Talk, More Play.

February 2, 2004

Nolenator, Faile and I enjoyed the park. We had talked about coming back in the spring, but agreed that finding the cache the way we did was much more exciting

I'm glad that your cache is back in play, but I have to admit that I would have been less suspicious of your actions if you would have just kept to your original position about keeping your cache out of the game. Don't misunderstand, I'm in no way saying that I want you to remove it from the game now.

But you have to admit that seeing a cache owner flip flop like that could be seen as a suspicious act by the other team.

Oh well, I'm ready to move on from all of this. Faile and I will probably revisit the park in better weather since we didn't get around to finding the Troop 591 cache. We made a quick search of the area we ended up in, but couldn't find it. I hope it's still there.

February 2, 2004

Troop 591 is indeed still there. I check on it almost everytime I go to Camp Long. Peace everyone, I am out of here. Nolenator

1.3k · February 2, 2004

I still have a no find on Troup 591, from what I hear it's a pretty good cammo job. It's on my to finish list.

CameraThyme Posted on Feb 2 2004, 07:39 AM

Less Talk, More Play.

I agree, let's move forward from this point and try to remember, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun, there is no grand prize waiting for the winner. The prize is the game itself and playing with old friends and meeting new ones.

1.8k · February 2, 2004

If jester did have permission to go in and practice rock climbing that still wouldn't make it legal to go and get the cache in my opinion. The rules say that if a park is closed then you CANNOT GET THE CACHE. It doesn't say if it is closed but if you have permission to go do something else you can sneak off and get the cache.

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but just to make sure the rules are clear, 2c says:

All applicable laws, regulations, and rules shall apply, including but not limited to posted park hours, parking rules, and traffic laws.

If Jester would have gotten the potato during closed park hours, he would have done so with permission. No laws, regulations, or rules would have been broken. I would think that permission from an offical park administrator would trump posted park hours.

Hmm... maybe I should draft a letter to the King County Parks deparment asking for unlimited 24 hour access to all their parks...

5.6k · February 2, 2004

bilbo19 wrote: "If jester did have permission to go in and practice rock climbing that still wouldn't make it legal to go and get the cache in my opinion. The rules say that if a park is closed then you CANNOT GET THE CACHE. It doesn't say if it is closed but if you have permission to go do something else you can sneak off and get the cache. The rules are in place so it is fair for everyone, having one person on the King County Team have permission to go into a closed park is crap! This makes it an unfair balance to the teams. Even if it is for something completely unrelated to geocaching! He should be able to go and do his climbing but the park is still closed under normal circumstances so it should be unavailable to him and to all!!!"

Two points I'd like people to think about. One, I didn't just have permission to rock climb, the Mountaineer's had rented the use of the park. That means we had access to the whole park (the activities are all over the park). Yes, the park was closed to the public, but not to the Mountaineer's. Two, let's say the a group had rented the park for a geocaching event, would that make it illegal for one of them to go climb on Sherman Rock?

This whole idea started because I asked a hypothetical question that turned more and more real. We asked for a ruling from the ref and got a positive response. I would have abided by which ever way it went.

One last question to all: Why the heck are we argueing/discussing something that didn't happen???

Craig (The Jester)

February 2, 2004

Website is finally updated. Sorry it took so long. My potato time (and then some) has been taken up dealing with the multiple problems. But we're up to date now and the Kingons are ahead 5 points as of this moment.

The Nolenator issue. I used professional sports umps as my guide for this one. Last fall Steve Bartman (who I hope has a special place in hell reserved for him ) interrupted a game and the umps had to deal with it. It happened and there was nothing anyone can do about it (even the Illinois governor could do nothing except be angry with the jerk). They ruled, as I did, that play continues on. And the Cubs lost the game (thanks to a weasel fan). A game far more important than this one.

I'm sorry to see Team South dropping like flies. Especially since it seems I'm the reason. Which really confuses me since I've only really made 3 rulings, the first 2 were in their favor and this one seemed like a no brainer that didn't hurt anyone. If there had been a blight time during the 2 days they wanted it locked up I may have ruled differently but since there wasn't I didn't see what the harm with just continuing the game was. I even posted nothing was happening on Sunday so everyone could relax during the Super Bowl if they wanted.

As far as a do over that doesn't really make sense to me. That would just put the game on hold longer while we wait for the park to open on Tuesday and then have Team South come all the way up to replace it. Then have Team North go up there and move it. Just doesn't make sense to me. We didn't have a do over last game when Team South lost the TB no reason to do it this time when Team North lost the TB. Yes, very different circumstances but in reality the same rule would apply. We just get the ball back and continue on.

To answer Team South's statements about me changing the rulings, no I'm not going to do that. For one, I haven't heard any good arguments to do that. And two if I changed them I would just be penalizing Team South more so not sure how that would help.

BTW - A reminder of the 5 person rule. No one has broken it but if Jester would have grabbed the TB it would have been close (6 people touched it because of the hand off). Don't know if North had thought of that but wanted to make sure they had and with Team South's most active members leaving it'll become an issue for them.

***edited to change mention of score. Thanks runhills!***

Edited February 2, 2004 by gaviidae

February 2, 2004

One last question to all: Why the heck are we argueing/discussing something that didn't happen???

Good point. You got me.

But in this regard, it could also be noted that it's unfair that Team North has one cache that's closed for two days. So if I were to rule Jester couldn't get the TB when he's there legally because it's unfair I'd have to also rule Team South can't put it there because it's unfair.

Life's not fair. If it was Steve Bartman would be a Yankees fan.

February 2, 2004

BTW - Probably should mention that even though the Camp Long cache is listed on the score page because of the problems and such I'm going to rule that it wasn't used as far as the restrictions on placement are concerned. So that cache is open to have the potato placed there again.

February 2, 2004

I'm having troubles logging the coin on the cogeo site. Did anyone else have problems, or is it just me?

Og

1.3k · February 2, 2004

I think I remember something from another thread that the cogeo site was pretty much defunct. I didn't try to log the bug there myself so I'm not sure.

February 2, 2004

Life's not fair. If it was Steve Bartman would be a Yankees fan.

oooh, gotta love that one (he says, bleeding Phillies Red).

February 2, 2004

This game is in the news! Read the article in last weeks paper. Peninsula Gateway geocaching article

February 2, 2004

What a fun birthday you must have had! Thanks for showing us the article.

cin

February 3, 2004

Happy G - Awesome awesome. Positive, FUN and memorable. What did the cake look like?? Yum, cake.... :-) ::mention potato here to keep on topic:: ;-)

February 3, 2004

My name is Steve also, but I must remind everybody I threw the ball back! Peace, Nolenator

Edited February 3, 2004 by nolenator

February 3, 2004

Go Teams Go .... It's Springlike outside and like WanderLost's signature..... go play outside

Southies, Piercing Headaches ;-), after you pick-up this round, and bring it up back North ... could you do consider something muddy like Bingamon Pond?? or planky like Gaines Park?? :-), would be really nice to take the kids out to find the spud tonight! - CT

Edited February 3, 2004 by CameraThyme

February 3, 2004

What's that smell? Is there a rotten potato in our midst?

BLIGHT TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The first blight has occurred on 2/3/04 at 1:54 PM. Since the potato is logged as being in Pierce county at this time the Kingons get 10 points. Making it 70 to 55.

There are 3 more blights that will happen in this game.

Now that this has happened I can expand on my earlier ruling.

The original plan was for South to lock the TB up for 2 days. A good strategy because of the odds but unfortunately it would have meant they would almost certainly be stuck with the potato during the first blight time. It hurt me to just let it happen but of course I couldn't warn them that their well-conceived strategy would have bad consequences.

But North had their own plans. They were going to legally move the TB on Sunday putting it up in the air who would have the TB during the blight. Once again, a good move in theory but one that would change their almost guaranteed 10 points into a gamble.

Suddenly Nolenator took the TB and everything changed. I could have ruled that the TB be held for 2 days as was the original plan but knew that would screw over Team South (north would have the potato and 2 days to plan making it all but certain once again the TB would be in South's possession during the blight) and anyway that wasn't how it was probably going to play out. It didn't seem fair to punish South for something they had no control over. So I ruled partially according to rule 2a that the TB was active again. The only fair thing I could see was to make the blight time up for grabs.

Unfortunately, while my intentions were to not purposefully harm team south it seems that since my ruling caused at least 2 active members to quit it had the opposite but unintentional results of doing the same.

I feel I must point out that I am not saying I would have ruled otherwise had the blight time not been coming up. We'll never know, it just made me realize I shouldn't rule any other way. I think everyone has to admit this was a highly unusual case and could never have been foreseen. I'm just glad the blight wasn't scheduled for Monday. That would have sucked big time.

BTW - In my eyes, Hot Potato is a fast moving game in spirit. When given the option between having the ball sit and having it move I will err on the side of the latter. My first and third rulings are indications of that. I think it was perfectly acceptable to lock the potato up for 2 days and explicitly gave permission to do so but once the ball was out I'd prefer it move than just be held for no practical reason.

February 3, 2004

I have not heard from Team Noltex yet but it seems that they accidentally logged online the wrong cache. According to the information I've gotten they signed the logbook for ClarkPark but didn't sign it for somethingisfishy so the assumption is that they went to ClarkPark but when they got in the internet had a brain fart and "found" the wrong one.

The Kingons have graciously agreed that we'll just continue play as normal and I concur. Mistakes happen.

And yes, I realize that the other 2 penalties were also simply mistakes. They were however "real world" mistakes and not simply a clerical error. And most importantly, the Kingons declined any penalty on this one.

For any of you wondering why gc.com has a rule about putting caches too close together here's a great example of why they have it.

February 3, 2004

'tis but a flesh wound.

Thanks gaviidae for taking on the tough job as Ref. You are doing admirably.

Looking forward to overcoming another hurdle to beat the North. It's like keeping one hand tied to make things more fair!

February 3, 2004

Thanks gaviidae for taking on the tough job as Ref. You are doing admirably.

Thanks. It was a nail biter (at least for me) for about an hour after Herr Fritz logged picking up the bug. But luckily for the Kingons he didn't pick up and place the TB on the same trip.

February 3, 2004

Hey gaviidae, I saved some of my Kudos for you! Maybe, just maybe you can sleep the next couple of nights

February 3, 2004

Just got home from work to find this nightmare of the wrong cache. My sincere apology to North for the mistake. I had three caches to choose from, went to middle one and ruled it out, then just grabbed another waypoint and for some reason thought it was on somethingisfishy. I'm sure North thought in fact something was fishy when they didn't find it there. After all that's gone on, I appreciate the quick forgiveness that apparently has been given. Anyone that knows me will tell you that I play by the rules and I apologize for the incovenience and confusion. I hope that I would be as gracious if this was the other way around.

Geo-hot Potato III (IIb)

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