Geo-hot Potato III (IIb)

January 23, 2004

Game starts tomorrow this thread will be where to place any "official" messages or discussion about the game.

Some clarifications:

1) Game starts at approximately 8 AM. As soon as Kitelady logs the TB the game is on.

2) Blight times have been selected ahead of time and will be announced as they pass. The times are frperg to all but myself and a back-up person in case there is any complaints (which there won't be, right <_< ).

3) Team South will not get 5 points for placing the TB in the first cache. They will, however, start amassing points if it sits there for 24 hours. They will also get the 5 points for placing if it sits for 24 hours.

4) If you were on a team for the last game you'll be on the same team for this game. If you want to change teams or join this game e-mail me. Teams are on my website.

5) My website is not updated for this game but will be soon (I hope). It will be the same address as last game.

6) If a team has a captain please let me know so I can direct any communication at them to pass on to the teams. No need for captains, this only applies if a team appoints one on their own.

7) We will plan a post-game get together the first week of March (or last week of February if the game is going badly). Same geo-place same geo-time unless there is a groundswell of support for somewhere else. E-mail me privately if you decide to start a groundswell.

8) Good luck to all.

Edited January 23, 2004 by gaviidae

1.8k · January 23, 2004

Excellent. Thanks.

1.3k · January 23, 2004

I think the location was perfect. I'm up for having it there again, depending on how things go we should maybe try for a weekend and see if they can open the doors to give us one big room.

January 23, 2004

...are on my website...

... and that would be where?

January 23, 2004

...are on my website...

... and that would be where?

Alright, who let the Cougar in? Have to explain everything to them.

It's the site we used for the last game: http://users.techline.com/stump/gc/potato.html. It's also linked on the TB page.

Probably should have included it on the first post (it's been edited to correct). Thanks.

January 23, 2004

Alright, who let the Cougar in? Have to explain everything to them.

Oh, and BTW, you've been misspelling potatoe.

1.3k · January 23, 2004

Alright, who let the Cougar in? Have to explain everything to them.

I don't seem to recall any local canines playing in a post season bowl came this year.

2.5k · January 23, 2004

Alright, who let the Cougar in? Have to explain everything to them.

Oh, and BTW, you've been misspelling potatoe.

Only if your name is Dan Quayle do you spell it with an "e".

1.5k · January 23, 2004

Alright, who let the Cougar in? Have to explain everything to them.

Oh, and BTW, you've been misspelling potatoe.

Only if your name is Dan Quayle do you spell it with an "e".

Not to get off topic, .....ok, I guess I am getting off topic...... but as a "Right Wing Wacko" I need to make a correction here.

The sheet that the teacher of that school handed to Mr Quayle, had the word spelled "Potatoe". Dan said he thought that it wasn't right, but who was he to correct the teacher in front of her students

In other words..... he was setup!

Must have been part of that Vast Left Wing Conspiracy

So to get it back on topic.... us wackos are going to forever change the spelling and add the E to the end

January 24, 2004

Good luck to everyone!

May the best county win~

Og

5.6k · January 24, 2004

Just wanted to let people know I'm on the North Team (and "Assistant Wife" may help me out from time to time). Everyone play nice now...

January 24, 2004

Jester,

Help, I just know that South is going to place the bug in that "George" cache that I posted as

DNF!

January 24, 2004

May the best county win~

Can't happen. Grays Harbor county isn't playing.

Web pages are updated and team lists are up. If you're not on the list (and want to be) let me know.

January 24, 2004

Count me in for North, as well!

January 24, 2004

I'll add my declaration for the North Team also. Good luck all!

January 24, 2004

Game on!

Hot Potato

January 24, 2004

Hey Travis, would you be able to provide a mappoint file for download of the official boundries? I'd like to work off of the same one you and Gaviidae are using.

1.8k · January 25, 2004

Sure thing. It's right here (447K .ptm file).

January 26, 2004

I'd just like to say that I'm already dizzy.

I could have sworn NomadRaven grabbed it and placed it last night, less than 24 hours ago. Since then it's been picked up, dropped, picked up again, dropped, and picked up again.

Everyone with me?

Whee.

9.5k · January 26, 2004

Just back from my winter camp and it looks like I've got some catch up reading to do.

January 26, 2004

Sure thing. It's right here (447K .ptm file).

Can I convert that to Streets and Trips 2004?

1.8k · January 26, 2004

No idea -- I'd hoped MapPoint and S&T were perfectly compatible.

January 26, 2004

Sure thing. It's right here (447K .ptm file).

Can I convert that to Streets and Trips 2004?

How do the quotes work?

1.5k · January 26, 2004

No idea -- I'd hoped MapPoint and S&T were perfectly compatible.

You expect Microsoft to do something logical?

Someday in another thread I will have to ask what the difference is between the two programs other than $250

Edited January 26, 2004 by Right Wing Wacko

January 26, 2004

I have one partially assembled, I'll put it up online today based on Travis's picture from the http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php...ndpost&p=784002 thread.

[...time passes...]

ok, look HERE on the web, file is 85kb zipped.

Edited January 26, 2004 by vds

January 29, 2004

Team South, I think you made a mistake. The bug was just placed in a members-only cache, which is against the rules.

1.8k · January 29, 2004

CRAP! That's my fault -- I directed Team Noltex there after discovering that "Watch Your Head" was in a closed park.

So... how do we remedy this? Does Team South need to get it from there and move it again?

1.3k · January 29, 2004

I think we need a ruling from the ref.

January 29, 2004

Tar and feathers!!!

January 29, 2004

Let's wait and see what Gaviidae says on this. Until we hear a ruling, I think both sides should leave it where it is.

January 29, 2004

I think giving South a chance to grab/rehide some place legal is a little too forgiving.

Need the ref man. Possibilities abound:

- ball is out of bounds, North gets pickup and next move (ie, South loss of down)

- ball is considered moved sideways within South region by South (ie, 15 yards penalty, South keeps possession)

- illegal grounding (ie, 15 yards penalty and loss of down, North takes over)

January 29, 2004

CRAP! That's my fault -- I directed Team Noltex there after discovering that "Watch Your Head" was in a closed park.

So... how do we remedy this? Does Team South need to get it from there and move it again?

Actually you can get to "Watch your head" without entering the park (it's out of the park boundaries) by going between the park and the cemetery. The trails are e a bit trickier, that way though.

Edited January 29, 2004 by martmann

January 29, 2004

Well, since the parking coords for Watch Your Head that are given on the description are IN the park, the safest thing was to not use that cache.

January 29, 2004

Been e-mailing TravisL and Wander Lost about this and didn't think about there being a discussion going on here!

Ruling is Team South still has the ball and no move has been made. If they don't move it to a legal cache by 13:39 North gets another point. If the blight time happens before it's moved Team North gets the 10 points.

Edited January 29, 2004 by gaviidae

January 29, 2004

BTW - I don't see any reason why North couldn't pick up the ball now and move it South to grab an additional 5 points.

January 29, 2004

Oh well, there's always next time for the tar and feathers.

Thanks for the quick response!

oops, look like it was a jump ball.

Edited January 29, 2004 by vds

January 29, 2004

I am ready to move the TB right now. However, from your last post on the forum it sounds like the north team can pick up the TB.

BTW - I don't see any reason why North couldn't pick up the ball now and move it South to grab an additional 5 points.

I don't want to drive all the way out there to find that the TB has been moved by the north.

I need to know what the ruling is.

Ruling is Team South still has the ball and no move has been made. If they don't move it to a legal cache by 13:39 North gets another point.

Can team north move the TB or not?

Please advise ASAP

1.3k · January 29, 2004

Might as well catch some zzzzz's.

January 29, 2004

Okay, I only have a little brain, but something doesn't pass the "smell test" here. If the bug is still in the "territory/possession" of the South (quoting the ref), how can the North legally grab it? This makes absolutely ZERO sense, but I'm too tired to give a da*n any more tonight.

1.5k · January 29, 2004

Okay, I only have a little brain, but something doesn't pass the "smell test" here. If the bug is still in the "territory/possession" of the South (quoting the ref), how can the North legally grab it? This makes absolutely ZERO sense, but I'm too tired to give a da*n any more tonight.

The ball has been fumbled! Both teams scramble to recover.

January 29, 2004

BTW - I don't see any reason why North couldn't pick up the ball now and move it South to grab an additional 5 points.

Okay, we revereted back to "hands on" rather than Hot Potato??? This is great for North as long as the Blight doesn't strike

January 29, 2004

Okay, we revereted back to "hands on" rather than Hot Potato???

Not really. South has the chance to move the potato. If North picks it up the potato it becomes their possession and they have 24 hours to get rid of it before points start accumulating for them. And of course, the risk of blight time.

RWW and VDS called it correctly. It's a fumble/jump ball. First team there gets it.

January 29, 2004

Suttle Difference, fumble/jump ball you want to get the ball. In Hot Potato you don't want the ball

In my way of thinking, the Travel Bug is similar to a bomb. I don't want it in my hands or house when the blight strikes so why race to get it?

Are we allowed this much fun?

Edited January 29, 2004 by runhills

January 29, 2004

Okay, I've had a few hours' sleep and this STILL doesn't make sense.

From the ref's ruling:

1. "South still has the ball and no move has been made"

2. "North (can) pick up the ball now and move it south"

If BOTH statements can be true at the same time, then presumably South could go grab it right now (even though North "has the ball and no move has been made.") But, short of mugging Drinksmith, I don't quite see how that can happen.

If the ruling had been something like, "South made an illegal move and the ball is up for grabs" I would understand. I can't rationalize both statements above simultaneously.

January 29, 2004

This game isn't identical to Hot Potato, and it never will be exactly like real Hot Potato, so arguing that a call by the ref makes the game not like Hot Potato is a moot point. (First of all, real Hot Potato doesn't have a referee.)

From the sound of it, since Team South made an illegal move, there's no points for the placement, but the ball is still where it is. Because they fouled, Team South was given the special chance to grab it and replace it legally, but since the ball is physically in a cache North territory, Team North is still obliged to try and make a move.

So Team South was penalized (no points for placement) but still given a chance to redeem themselves (free chance to try and make a second move). I don't see why either team should be unhappy with that.

1.1k · January 29, 2004

While I don't have a problem with the ruling (it's just a hella lot more work for South), I think I DO have a problem with the post 12 minutes later.

The official ruling was that the ball was in the South's possession until South placed it in a legal cache, or until 13:39, Jan 29 - at which point North would get 5 points for South not placing the ball legally.

A couple things here...

This is similar to the situation where a South player placed the ball outside of the 5 mile boundary in the previous game. The ruling there was that the South had to retrieve the ball and place it in a legal cache. North could not go pick it up from the out-of-bounds cache because, technically, it was still in South's possession even tho it was in an illegal cache and available for pick-up.

The ruling says South still has the ball. North should not be able to go pick it up.

Once Team South realized their mistake last night, they sat around and waited for the Ref to make a ruling before moving to get the ball. Ruling made, movement started, then Ref changes his mind and says everyone can go for it.

The two statements made by the ref, last night, are inconsistent.

January 29, 2004

My feelings are that the potato was placed in a Members Only cache which is not permitted. Therefore, how can it be retrieved from a Members Only cache ... I felt it should remain South's possession, and per Ref's 'ruling'.

January 29, 2004

If the ruling had been something like, "South made an illegal move and the ball is up for grabs" I would understand. I can't rationalize both statements above simultaneously.

The reason for my wording rather than your wording is that if the ball sits there for 24 hours or a blight time comes North would get points. If it was just up for grabs then if a blight time passed no one would get the points.

Someone earlier had asked a question about putting a TB in a cache in their territory temporarily as part of a hand off. I said it would be fine but the other team could steal it while it's in there. (it may have been a private e-mail or in person at the event, a very quick look at the forums didn't show it) This is a similar situation.

January 29, 2004

Right, Michelle!

Happy Gillmore and I were ready to go, even though the way we interpreted the ref's ruling, we had until 13-something today to make the move. Then came the second message about the North being able to go grab it, which made no sense to us. Happy tried to get a clarification from the ref. The two of us were talking on the phone and watching our computers, waiting in vain for a response.

Looking at the times of the posts, the North had the bug before we even asked for clarification so we never had a chance. "Giving the south a chance to fix the problem" would seem to imply a reasonable amount of time to do so. As it came down, it would have been like them trying to retrieve it from "Borgen's Corner" the other night--no way they could drive down here in the time it took me to WALK to the cache!

Edited January 29, 2004 by blueheron0

1.3k · January 29, 2004

This is similar to the situation where a South player placed the ball outside of the 5 mile boundary in the previous game. The ruling there was that the South had to retrieve the ball and place it in a legal cache. North could not go pick it up from the out-of-bounds cache because, technically, it was still in South's possession even tho it was in an illegal cache and available for pick-up.

If you are refering to Travis's first move, he never logged the potato as having been dropped. Realizing his mistake he wisely didn't log which cache it sat in that day. If he had Team North could have grabbed it and moved it south. But that was the last game.

Our first reaction last night was to go grab the potato before Team South had a chance to correct their mistake. We decided to wait for a ruling from the ref before we did anything. It was only after the last message from gaviidae about it being up for grabs did we send a team member after it.

Geo-hot Potato III (IIb)

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