I Think I Found A Benchmark?

[+nerroc]

I found a benchmark at N 36 09.087 W 86 37.222 Elevation 530ft. It is located in the Hermitage Public Use Area past the parking area outside the gate walking toward the park building halfway up the hill. You will see two large pine trees it is about twenty feet farther up the hill toward the building set into a stone flat in the ground. It looks as if someone once marked the benchmark with white paint. It is pretty faded but this is what I could make out on the mark. Around the outer rim it said "$250 dollar fine for distrubing this mark" It was stamped with the initials U.S.ED, FSRL-1 or ESRL-1 or FSRI-1, and the year 1944. If anyone knows what this mark is I would love to log it.

 

Thanks,

 

-nerroc

[+DustyJacket]

I could not find it on the NGS database.

[+FSU*Noles]

Well, I'm pretty new at this, but have you tried a search on all benchmarks around Hermitage, TN (37076) from the top of the Benchmark page? That should give you a list of 'loggable' benchmarks close to you...I'm not familiar with your area, but you can use that page to get closer to the location by starting with the first one, then using the "x miles NW" etc to maybe pin it down?

 

Also, a picture might help - the people in this forum are very agreeable, friendly and helpful...I'm sure something will turn up. Best of luck,

 

-Ken

[+fosterbass]

From geocaching.com/mark:

 

I found a benchmark, but it isn't in your database. Why?

The NGS is not the only organization that creates and uses benchmarks and other types of control markers. For example, the US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) places survey markers at their dams, dikes, levees, flood control systems and other structures. The Bureau of Land Management (BLM) and other federal agencies, along with your county surveyor and private surveyors and engineers place markers that often appear very similar to geodetic markers, to reference land survey corners as part of the public land survey system. Your local highway department also may have set markers along highways, at major bridges and overpasses. Many markers have also been set in recent years by utility companies, telecom companies, and others engaged in laying pipe or cable over long distances, to mark their underground lines. In most cases, the information stamped on the disk will tell you, or at least give you a clue, about its purpose. Remember, all these markers are highly important, both to businesses and to individual citizens such as your neighbors, so please treat them with respect, while enjoying the thrill of the hunt. We'll try to find other databases and add them to the site as well. If you have access to one of these databases and would like to submit it to Groundspeak, contact us.

 

If you find a marker that isn't in the database, please do not email the site with the information. Unfortunately at the moment there is nothing to do with the information you send us. Hopefully, we'll have a way to report new benchmark finds in the future. In the meantime, feel free to challenge your fellow hunters to help you identify any markers you find that have only cryptic initials on them by posting a photo and description on the message board.

[+gbod]

It was stamped with the initials U.S.ED, FSRL-1 or ESRL-1 or FSRI-1, and the year 1944.

U.S. ED? Hmmm. Energy Department? Any other guesses?

[+nerroc]

I was confused. I just thought it was cool that it was from 1944. I will post a pic asap.

 

 

-Oh and I read the FAQ about not all benchmarks being in the database.

 

-nerroc

[ArtMan]

Obviously not Energy Dept, since that did not come into being until decades after 1944.

 

I'm fairly confident it's a Corps of Engineers Disk.

 

See, e.g., GC2223, with mark logo USE, monumented in 1953 by U.S. Engineers (as it was then referred to). The datasheet for nearby mark GC2225 uses GC2223 (designation - 1) as a reference object and includes the following phrase: "1 (U.S.E.D.) IS 81 FEET NORTHWEST...."

 

I'm not sure what the "D" represents. Division? Department? Disk? If you're curious, you can email the Corps' history office at ceho@usace.army.mil and perhaps they can help you.

 

Don't know about those other letters. If they were hand-stamped, they would likely be the name (designation) of the station. If part of the manufactured stamping of the disk, it might refer to a project of some kind (Federal Survey of Rotten Landscapes, or some such).

 

Regards

-ArtMan-

[+Black Dog Trackers]

I see the abbreviation USE and USED in benchmark descriptions around here. I think that the Corps of Engineers used to be called the "U.S. Engineers Department", or just the "U.S. Engineers". An example is HV 4635.

Edited January 19, 2004 by Black Dog Trackers

[hntrbass]

I work for the Corps of Engineers. I can only speak for the Omaha District-Engineering Division- Hydrologic Engineering branch however. I'm not familiar with much of their history though. Is the benchmark near a lake or river? it's possible that the marking ESRI-1 stands for ....Sediment Range I-1? We have sediment range lines on all our reservoirs. these are numbered sediment range _1-20. usually preceded by the first letter of the dam or reservoir's name. Is there a maker near-by such as a fencepost and plate or a carsonite? We do spray paint our markers and benchmarks with white spray paint. It's easier to see them in the grass and from a distance. hope this helps

[+nerroc]

This mark is near a Lake and an Army Corps of Engineers Dam. Percy Priest Lake. I didn't see any other markers in the vicinity.

[DaveD]

This area falls under the responsiblity of the Nashville District of the Army Corps of Engineers. You should contact them for info on this and other marks they would have in the area.

[+Oneyedjack]

Does the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) have a database for their benchmarks? I have been looking on their web site and am unable to locate it, if it is there. I found this disk and was trying to find more information on it.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

PLSS Benchmark

To find what they are about see the PLSS Section here.

NILS

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

PLSS Benchmark

The Bureau of Land Management is responsible for maintaining the Public Lands Survey System. It is generally a grid system used by many States used to define the public, and many private lands. It is also a completely horizontal system - there are no vertical measurements given to any of the PLSS marks. Consequently there are no benchmarks in the PLSS system. All PLSS marks are called 'corners' and they look very similar to the benchmarks we all search for.

 

While this is a BLM mark for a cadastral survey, it is not a PLSS mark. It looks like a reference mark, possibly to a BLM triangulation station or other survey control point.

[Z15]

Looks to be a reference mark to a section corner or other land corner established as part of a land survey. There would be no data on this type of mark except for distance and direction to the corner of reference.

 

These records would be recorded locally in the courthouse, registrar of Deeds or other government entity delegated with recording land etc. But it might not be recorded anywhere also.

 

Reference marks like these are used when the actual point falls in a roadway or other area that may disturb the mark.

 

You would go the direction noted and distance indicated to find the actual land corner. In all probability there are more references, be they trees (nail in the tree to reference a distance) or other permanent and/or natural objects.

Edited May 1, 2004 by elcamino

[+Colorado Papa]

Does the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) have a database for their benchmarks?

I looked at the NILS page and did not spend much time trying to find data for any marks.

Here's another one that I've been using for my cache GCG6QP Clear Creek Reservoir.

 

[CallawayMT]

The BLM does have a data base of the Public Land Survey System (PLSS) corners. It is called the GCDB - Geographical Coordinate Data Base, and is available for most rectangular surveyed states. The GCDB is a Least Squares adjusted database of the PLSS by Township and Range for each state or Initial Point. Not all areas have been built yet, but the good majority are. This data is an excellent search tool for the cadastral survey corners.

 

Some of the data is great, some not as good; it all depends on how good the control was for the Township and how recent some of the physical data is.

The GCDB takes the original plat information, some quad corners and recent survey information; all by the bearings and distances, runs some checks and does a least squares and then also calculates the corners down to the 1/16 corners. Including state boundaries, reservations, meanders, resevoir take lines, mineral surveys and quite a few others that I am forgetting.

 

All of these corners are then put into the GCDB along with quite a few other files which make sense to the people working on the data. Inside of this data you can find a file with all of the NAD27 Latitudes and Longitudes for this adjusted data. You run it through a spreadsheet and you can have all of the corners for any Township that has been built by the BLM or other government agencies.

 

This is a pretty basic stab at what the GCDB is, but you get the idea; there are a lot of data bases out there if you know where to look and what you are looking at.

Here is the link to the real knowledge: http://www.blm.gov/gcdb/

 

Regards

[+Oneyedjack]

Reference marks like these are used when the actual point falls in a roadway or other area that may disturb the mark.

 

 

This is a good explanation, because the reference mark is pointing directly to the center of two intersecting paved roads. And I am assuming that the 59.2 ft. is indicating, by the arrow, the actual mark is near the center if the intersection. Thanks for your help! You guys are great!!!

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

Reference marks like these are used when the actual point falls in a roadway or other area that may disturb the mark.

 

 

This is a good explanation, because the reference mark is pointing directly to the center of two intersecting paved roads. And I am assuming that the 59.2 ft. is indicating, by the arrow, the actual mark is near the center if the intersection. Thanks for your help! You guys are great!!!

I believe most of the 1 mile corners they tried to get in the center of the County or other Roadways.

 

I have a cache that fits this.Begin the Number System

 

That one is 52.9 feet, a reference mark to common corner of Section 6 TWP?RNG?

I Did not go into the details on range and township.

Edited May 3, 2004 by GEO*Trailblazer 1

[boundsgoer]

I believe most of the 1 mile corners they tried to get in the center of the County or other Roadways.

 

GEO*Trailblazer,

 

I believe you have it backwards. Generally, the section lines were established first and roads were usually built on the section lines.

[+GEO*Trailblazer 1]

I believe most of the 1 mile corners they tried to get in the center of the County or other Roadways.

 

GEO*Trailblazer,

 

I believe you have it backwards. Generally, the section lines were established first and roads were usually built on the section lines.

Yep I think your right.

Thats what I said...LOL it's the way you heard it.

 

There may be both cases as well.

I won't go into the Engineering curve's placed in the section corners,throughout this next of the woods.