My personal opinions and observations.

[+GroundClutter]

I'm going to do a bit of a rant. Well, not a rant exactly, but more of a series of personal observations. Flame me if you want, call me a whiner if you want, but I do feel that I am entitled to my opinion and I would like to have my say.

 

I've been caching for almost a year. I started because it seemed like a great little hobby, exercise and a way to meet new people. I'm leaning more toward packing it in now. It just seems like more and more, money is making this game go around. Technology and fancy bells and whistles. Paging people to run out and beat everyone else to a FTF to add to the bankroll. All this talk about forming societies, electing members, charging fees, people being in charge of what goes where and who says what. Censoring or banning. What is going on?!?! And before someone suggests to simply ignore it, I don't see how I can. That would mean not reading any forum posts, not going to any cache events, and not reading and cache posts about how much money is up for grabs and who got to it first.

 

I don't know. Does anyone else out there feel even part of what I am feeling? Does anyone just want to go for that little walk in the woods and not have to be caught up in the brutal competition that seems to be going on? Would anyone still rush out to do a new cache if it didn't have a $20 bill in it?

 

Ok. I'm finished now. I hope you will read this and understand my intention. I'm feeling a bit disheartened with caching at the moment. I'd love for someone to instill a bit of faith.

[+Yellowcode3]

Hello Groundclutter. I read your post with interest. I have seen similar ideas expressed in the past through these forums. Several times since this website started people have asked the tough questions about what it is all about, what they want out of it, and what they are not getting. Motivations vary widely.

 

Only having met you in passing on the Victoria Cache Machine Day, and having read several of your logs, I would say you enjoy the hikes, the walks, the searches, hiding caches, and perhaps meeting people in the hobby who have treated you with kindness and respect. I know from watching your cache logs that you have met several people over the last year, many of whom you have cached with several times.

 

You ask the question about money, FTF's, websites, etc. and wonder where it is all going. I challenge you that it is up to you to decide what you are doing and why you do it.

 

Personally, I have an understanding of why I enjoy caching, what I get out of it, and what I put back in. I have made choices, some good, some bad, to bring me to this place. I have watched as some have "retired" and others have faded away, and still others carry on in good spirits.

 

One way to say it is enjoy the things you enjoy about this activity and be at peace with the other bits that occupy the time of others. You can co-exist with the cachers that have behaviours that you do not like. You do not have to like them, or their behaviour, but you can take a Gandhi like approach and and allow them to be. The ones that want to fight will fiight, the ones that cache only if there is cash will keep that up, the ones that enjoy meeting new people or hiking with the family will do that.

 

Get out, hike, enjoy your caching buddies, make new ones, have fun.... keep smiling.

 

YC3

[peetz]

Groundclutter....i could not have said it any better......im with you on this one...(it is nice to get a $20 for gas once and awhile though).....

[+GroundClutter]

One way to say it is enjoy the things you enjoy about this activity and be at peace with the other bits that occupy the time of others. You can co-exist with the cachers that have behaviours that you do not like. You do not have to like them, or their behaviour, but you can take a Gandhi like approach and and allow them to be. The ones that want to fight will fiight, the ones that cache only if there is cash will keep that up, the ones that enjoy meeting new people or hiking with the family will do that.

 

Don't get me wrong. I have certainly tried that. In fact, I have suggested that very thing to others in the past. However, now it is a bit like suggesting that a neighbourhood ignore the growing gang that is kicking their garbage cans over, racing through their streets at 3am and taking over their favourite hangouts.

 

It's very difficult to enjoy the game when it seems like one big competition. I guess I'll put it on the line here and suggest that those who are in it for the money, have your own side game where the rewards are all yours. Try not to infect the regular game with "at all cost" competitions that take away the spirit of the game.

It appears that the "little people" don't have a say, and sometimes don't have a chance. Things are dominated by a/some select group(s).

 

I will certainly try to continue to enjoy the game. I like all the cachers I have met, and have enjoyed the events I have participated in. However, I can see the tide turning. What I don't like is bullying, domineering attitudes and don't-even-bother because-I've-already-beaten-you-to it-itis.

[+SylvrStorm]

I will certainly try to continue to enjoy the game. I like all the cachers I have met, and have enjoyed the events I have participated in. However, I can see the tide turning.

Here's an analogy. My wife used to work as the assistant to a VP of a large company. He could certainly afford any vehicle he wanted, but drove a rather old car. One day the subject came up as to why he didn't get rid of it and buy something newer. He pulled out a file containing detailed records and calculations showing exactly how much it was costing him to keep that old car repaired and running. He also knew exactly how much his next car would cost. He said that when the cost of the old car exceeded that of the new car, he'd trade it in. Until then, there was no reason to.

 

Geocaching is a hobby, and like any hobby it's something we choose to do for reasons of personal pleasure. There are many reasons to enjoy geocaching, and each person must decide for themselves how big that pleasure benefit is. That's like the value of the old car. There are also negatives, which in this discussion seem to be mostly about attitudes of others, but can also include things like caches being plundered. These negatives are like the cost of repairs on the old car. As long as the pleasure exceeds the negatives, it seems a good idea to continue the activity.

 

But that's not the real analogy. So far we've only talked about the old car.

 

If we don't go geocaching, what would we do instead with that time? All those other hobbies and activities that we could choose from, those are like the cars on the lot. Each of them will have its own pleasures and negatives. When we choose an activity for our free time, we're not just deciding whether a given activity gives us a positive pleasure balance, we're deciding which activity gives us the highest pleasure balance.

 

As those balances change, it doesn't help to lament that an activity used to be more fun. (Though sometimes it does help to work with the community to make it more fun again.) In the end, if it's still better than the alternatives, then keep doing it. But if not, then do something else. Keep the old car as long as it's cost effective. If and when a new car is more cost effective, make the switch.

 

SylvrStorm

[cachewidow]

Silvrstorm, do you write self-awareness books? You should, you have a knack. Great analogy, and a hearty 'hear, hear' to this dialogue.

[+Dagg]

Infect, bullying, domineering.

Hmm those are some pretty strong words. Would you care to elaborate GC?

[+_canadianbacon_]

I don't know all the details of what may or may not have gone on between players, I can only read what is written and speculate (which is never a good thing, but hey I'm human!).

 

But as for the mad race and competition for the FTF, its just a little side thing, It's not like I will skip a cache if I was not the first one there, its a little fun thrown in, it kicks starts the cache and hey, you may snag a little FTF certificate, or something a bit more valuable to boot. I hope some of this bad-blood is not over FTFs!

 

I've not been the FTF on some 56 of my 57 caches (not by a long shot!), I'm not crying over it. No difference if I am number 2 in, or number 222! Sure its fun if your #1, but thats just a bonus.

 

In my next cache, it will only be a peice of paper for the FTF, and I know people will still race out to get it, and the 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc etc, will just log in, post a "Thanks, that was fun" note, and go home happy, or at least I can hope they do.

[KimAndMollie]

I'm a firm believer that the game (and life) is what you make it, and you get out of it what you put into it. If you choose to go and find little boxes in the woods, which has its own element of challenge, then do that. If you enjoy the little added elements that have been introduced to the activity, then do that. Please don't criticize those that can do both. If there's an aspect of the game you don't want to do, or don't feel you can do, then it's easy-don't do it. It's NOT all about FTF's and big competitions. Personally speaking, I like variety. I like the simplicity of finding a Lock/Lock under a log, and going for a hike to a mountaintop in the snow, and coming down, just as the sun is setting. I also like challenging my mind, working out puzzles, and discovering abilities I didn't know I had. I like the thrill of knowing I might get somewhere first, and not for the money, because I used to do that back in the day, where we used to have to wait for new caches to come out. Part of the fun, was seeing who could beat Plantman to a new cache, because he was always up early, and got there before the rest of us were even up! It was in good fun, and that's how I perceived it then, and now. This game is what you make it. Live and let live. Peace.

Edited January 14, 2004 by cacherunner

[+Dagg]

Holly crap! I agree with Cacherunner! Who woulda thunk it?

 

BTW no one can beat Plantman.. Its goes against the laws of physics.

[+Solar Max]

Infect, bullying, domineering.

Hmm those are some pretty strong words. Would you care to elaborate GC?

My thoughts exactly, Dagg.

 

And, is this the proper place for this debate? If we are to reopen all the old wounds, would not a new thread be more appropriate? Having said that, I plead guilty of doing the same thing, and here is my 3 cents worth (inflation):

 

I have been wrong before, and just as narrow minded. I like to think that I can learn from those mistakes, and as such, took a look at the bigger picture. I am guilty of most of the things that you are unhappy with; I have chased first finds, but I did that before there was $20 in the box. I enjoy the math involved in a large contest, but was unaware that I had the ability to do all these calculations, until about a year ago. On the other hand, I have gone to find boxes in the woods more than 300 km from home, just because they were there; there was no other incentive involved. Does that qualify as competitive, or just wanting to see a new place? You must judge.

 

The BCGA is all about cachers getting together for the common good, not to reopen a dialogue concluded, or at least suspended, a year ago. It is there to promote camaraderie between geocachers, and to provide a conduit between our community and the politicians, parks people, and any other group upon whom we might have an impact, or who might impact us.

 

Yellowcode3 offers you wise advice, as he usually does. Live and let live, and let's respect each other.There is lots of room outdoors for all of us.

 

So GC, You were part of our team during the last big contest, after all. Is that still the case?

[+Gorak]

Different people enjoy caching for different reasons. I mainly like the hunt, especially at night. If a new cache suddenly appears within striking distance, I will compete for FTF, but if I don't get it, I'll still have enjoyed the race and the hunt. I don't cache for what's in a cache, but then we don't see too many lucrative caches around here. In fact, I like to practise CICO (Cache In Crap Out) by removing the used bus transfers and rusty bottlecaps and replacing them with cooler swag. But that's just me and I don't begrudge others for whatever motivates them to cache.

 

The point is, if you don't care about FTF or cache contents, then cache for your own reasons and don't begrudge those that cache for different reasons. I fail to see how somebody racing for FTF or only hunting caches with valuable swag can or should affect someone else who doesn't cache for those reasons, unless you just don't like to hear about it.

 

_____________

Gorak

[Curious George]

Well said MBC, YC3, CR, SS and Gorak!

 

We all have our own motivations and reasons for playing this game - and yes I chose that word wisely.

 

In all things in life you can find the good and the bad, it's up to you to decide which way to look and how to accept them.

 

It sounds as if you have had some bad experiences and that is unfortunate.

 

We're hoping to have another event in the near future. Hopefully you'll come and you can share your experiences in an open forum where they can be discussed and debated.

[+GroundClutter]

Stop the train.

My original post was a response to the message that came before mine. It all got sidetracked from there. As it mostly involves BC caching, I would gladly have discussed this on the BC Assoc web site, but alas the forums are down. Cache-tech has graciously asked if Iwould like this to be moved to it's own forum here. I responded that I didn't want to start a nasty discussion, but since I said that I wanted to have my say, I should afford others the same courtesy. So....I await that forum where I would be more than happy to help everyone understand what I meant. The original message seems to have been lost/misinterpreted.

 

If anyone would like to speak with me personally, please do. I want you to understand. I welcome the opportunity to explain as all those who responded don't seem to have understood me. Dagg, I will certainly explain my choice of words to you if you like - and indeed to anyone else.

 

Thanks.

 

EDIT- thanks to Cache-tech who has moved this discussion here from the BC association forum., (where I think I was called a lurker?!) Yes, I did go on a mission. That's my point. That's where I would like to see the competition for money. Not in the little boxes in the woods. My question to the ones who go after the money boxes... I have planted 3 caches. Have you come after them? They don't have money, but I think you'll like them anyway. A lot of thought and feelings of friendship went into them.

Edited January 15, 2004 by GroundClutter

[naturenerd]

An old Cherokee is teaching his grandson about life.

 

"A fight is going on inside me," he said to the boy. "It is a terrible fight

and it is between two wolves. One is evil - he is anger, envy, sorrow,

regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies,

false pride, superiority, and ego.

 

The other is good - he is joy, peace, love, hope, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion, and faith.

 

This same fight is going on inside you - and inside every other person,

too."

 

The grandson thought about it for a minute and then asked his grandfather, "Which wolf will win?"

 

The old Cherokee simply replied, "The one you feed."