3 So Far :(

January 12, 2004

Curiosity was getting to me, so I went to the "other" site by Subigo to see if any caches had beed "stolen", and it looks like 3 caches have fallen victim.

R. E. Lee Mc Daniel Stables

Lost Lake Cache

Springfield Up/Springfield Down

Unfortunatly it looks like Subigo is making good on his claims. The thing that I find odd, is that we havn't heard from Jeremy on this issue. I would like to hear what he thinks/plans on doing about this issue? :unsure:

The Weasel

1.7k · January 12, 2004

His post in alt.rec.geocaching suggests that he "buried" the caches, as well. And in the same post, he gives his name and address. I wonder what his local parks department would think of this confession? (Of course, telling them about it might just lead to a blanket anti-geocaching stance, given the time they have to devote to such petty issues, so it's probably not a good idea.)

1.2k · January 12, 2004

This is upsetting. I have gone to his site and he sounds pretty intent on keeping up. In his forum he has stated that if you put the following disclaimer he would leave your Cache alone.

THIS IS A STASH FREE CACHE. IF YOU WOULD LIKE MORE INFORMATION ON STASHING PLEASE VISIT HIS SITE

I have removed the link so as to not break any posting rules.

PS: I do not support his actions or site. I am merely passing information I have gathered.

January 12, 2004

How can we stop this knuckelhead?So hear we go again,more forum space devoted to this simpleton.Any legal oppitions?I don't understand how he is able to keep sneeking his post on to these forums.Be that as it may,I guess there has to be "ONE" out there who has to irritate and try to subject his foul way of thinking on the rest of us.What a baby.Keep on Caching people,people like this will not keep me out of this game. :blink: :unsure:

38.2k · January 12, 2004

How can we stop this knuckelhead?

Simple. IGNORE HIM! He wants attention. Don't give him any and he goes away.

Don't e-mail him, don't IM him, don't start topics that mention him, don't visit his website and post in his forums and don't respond to his posts. If you are a victim, quietly replace your cache and delete his logs and any that mention him and move on.

Edited January 12, 2004 by briansnat

1.6k · January 12, 2004

If there was a sheriff or highway patrol officer that liked the out doors, you could approach them.

The thing about being an underground sport is that we don't build up the kind of favors that other groups do. If we would make an effort to use our skills that we use to play the game to help the parks department monitor problems or we used our skills and interest in being outside to aid in search and recovery or other tasks that the police need help with, we would have the contacts to contact to burn this guy.

3.9k · January 12, 2004

How can we stop this knuckelhead?

Simple. IGNORE HIM! He wants attention. Don't give him any and he goes away.

Don't e-mail him, don't IM him, don't start topics that mention him, don't visit his website and post in his forums and don't respond to his posts. If you are a victim, quietly replace your cache and delete his logs and any that mention him.

I completely agree with Brian. Just ignor him and he will get over it and go away soon.

Or we can call him...

[Personal contact info. removed by moderator]

Edited January 12, 2004 by Keystone Approver

2.1k · January 12, 2004

Yeah get a local police officer that could fingerprint the caches and run some checks...lol

Wonder how much bandwidth his server could hold? People could flood his site....lol

1.1k · January 12, 2004

How can we stop this knuckelhead?

Simple. IGNORE HIM! He wants attention. Don't give him any and he goes away.

Don't e-mail him, don't IM him, don't start topics that mention him, don't visit his website and post in his forums and don't respond to his posts. If you are a victim, quietly replace your cache and delete his logs and any that mention him.

I completely agree with Brian. Just ignor him and he will get over it and go away soon.

Or we can call him...

[Personal contact info. removed by moderator]

Not very bright of him to give out his address. :unsure:

Edited January 12, 2004 by Keystone Approver

3.9k · January 12, 2004

Never mind. He disconnected the phone number. All well I tried.

January 12, 2004

All of this over a game!!!

2.1k · January 12, 2004

I just want to know how I become a rouge poster here too.

I mean...do I just start making links to Avon and Maybeline or is this something that comes naturally?

I guess I'd take this guy more seriously if I thought he could spell (or use a spell- and grammar-checker).

MS Word isn't the best program out there, but it would help people who want to rant from sounding like simpletons.

January 12, 2004

All of this over a game!!!

Well it's gone from "just a game" to theft in my book. If I were to come to your house steal your car and leave a note where you can find it, would your feelings still be "it's just a game"?

2.1k · January 12, 2004

Never mind. He disconnected the phone number. All well I tried.

Has he moved too? lol

2.1k · January 12, 2004

This aspect of our "game" and this variation on the "game" have been discussed before. Search for "pirate".

The new aspect to this guy's play at the variation is that he is willing to damage the place where he hides the cache and has a specific malicious intent. The previous "pirate" website was not acting maliciously (didn't steal logbook, only trinkets) and rehid the items in a manner consistent with GC.com rules.

I was not bothered by the previous site and was even willing to defend their right to have a part in the game. This person has a serious problem though in that his actions do not allow others to even log the original cache upon finding it "stashed" and he is willing to damage park lands (and force others to damage park land randomly in order to retrieve the caches).

One of the main reasons you can not bury a cache (i.e. cover it over with dirt) is that GPS technology is not to the point of putting you directly on top of the exact spot for digging. The next person along must dig in *likely* spots (each time disturbing the landscape) until they find the cache's actual spot. This is not appropriate at all and will lead to obvious problems.

piratecaching.com was a more valid extension on the game (even moved trinkets were replaced by pirate toys). This new variation is problematic in its implementation and will not lead to anything useful on either side (other than GC.com learning how to control user sign-up better).

4.8k · January 12, 2004

The last time I checked my moral radar it said theft was bad. It also said that harrassing and threatening people was bad. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Brian is right. Ignore him. The whole thing isn't worth the angst.

January 12, 2004

The last time I checked my moral radar it said theft was bad. It also said that harrassing and threatening people was bad. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Brian is right. Ignore him. The whole thing isn't worth the angst.

It would be easy to ignore until one of your own caches came up missing. I havn't had a cache stolen by him yet, but doesn't mean I am going to ignore it. The people who say "ignore it" are usually the people who live far enough away from him that they don't have to worry having a cache stolen. IMO

6.4k · January 12, 2004

Two wrongs don't make a right.

But 3 lefts do! (bah dah boom!)

Seriously, like 'snat said, drop it. Threads like this are the real reason he's doing it. I know it's only a game, but I hope he knows what game he's playing. His own reaction to events should show him just how seriously some people overreact to things. He's over-reacting, eventually, so will someone else. People get killed every week for accidently cutting someone off on the highway. Geocachers come from all walks of life, it's not a major leap to suspect the type of person willing to kill over a bad lane change would be willing to kill someone over a stolen cache. This could be a very deadly game he's playing.

January 12, 2004

Since he is willing to post his address do you think he likes pepperoni or sausage pizzas? :unsure:

2.1k · January 12, 2004

The last time I checked my moral radar it said theft was bad. It also said that harrassing and threatening people was bad. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Brian is right. Ignore him. The whole thing isn't worth the angst.

It would be easy to ignore until one of your own caches came up missing. I havn't had a cache stolen by him yet, but doesn't mean I am going to ignore it. The people who say "ignore it" are usually the people who live far enough away from him that they don't have to worry having a cache stolen. IMO

Actually if I remember correctly , BrianSnat had some caches stolen previously... and he still says drop it...

3.9k · January 12, 2004

The last time I checked my moral radar it said theft was bad. It also said that harassing and threatening people was bad. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Brian is right. Ignore him. The whole thing isn't worth the angst.

It would be easy to ignore until one of your own caches came up missing. I haven't had a cache stolen by him yet, but doesn't mean I am going to ignore it. The people who say "ignore it" are usually the people who live far enough away from him that they don't have to worry having a cache stolen. IMO

The Weasel's got a point. I still think ignoring him is the best course of action.(so why do i keep posting in here?) But if one of my caches got ripped by this guy I'd be pretty pissed. Let's say ignore him in public (forums etc...). If you're local to him try and meet face to face. I've always felt it much easier to diffuse a situation 1 on 1. I don't mean threaten him, or harass him. Try and have a conversation with him. You'd be surprised how reasonable people tend to be when confronted directly. I'd be more than happy to have a Little chat with him. I tried to call that number to do just that. Not harass him.

January 12, 2004

There are a number of perils faced by all geocaches: Plundering (which is common) ; destruction by fire / flood/ bad weather ; removal by authorities; destruction by animals etc... etc... We have to accept those perils as part of the game. Subigo is clearly a jerk and his dishonest, mean spirited antics should be despised by all geoacachers, . but ultimately, his actions and those of others like him are just another minor peril that caches are subject to. There are too many caches out there, and too many good members of this sport, for his actions to have any real impact. I agree with BrianSnat on this one - just ignore him and treat his actions as any other unfortunate peril that caches face.

January 12, 2004

Back off weasel, I was just making a statement and hopefully we should all keep this in perspective.

If this guy gets ignored, he will go away. I spent 6+ years in law enforcement and probably would have been able to rattle his cage but to actually file charges that would stick would be a stretch.

I too am not too happy about this guy coming along doing what he is doing.

Just ignore him and his game and energy will run out!

January 12, 2004

I remember when I was a kid (stupid kid) we used to prank phone call people and when someone just hung up on us we would maybe try again but if they hung up again we would move on and the ones that threw a fit and would swear and yell,we would call them all night till they finaly hung up or stopped answering.

38.2k · January 12, 2004

It would be easy to ignore until one of your own caches came up missing. I haven't had a cache stolen by him yet, but doesn't mean I am going to ignore it. The people who say "ignore it" are usually the people who live far enough away from him that they don't have to worry having a cache stolen. IMO

I'm breaking my own rule by posting again to this. But as a target of a cache pirate in the past, I speak from experience. Ignore him and he will go away. The more you discuss him, the more you feed him. It's no fun stealing caches if nobody notices.

Edited January 12, 2004 by briansnat

January 12, 2004

as someone from the area he is targeting, we're dealing with him-in our own way. yes, ignoring him is part of it. so is talking to parks people so they are aware & won't revoke geocaching in the area. thanks to adminglenn for bringing this to our attention before it happened.

3k · January 12, 2004

The people who say "ignore it" are usually the people who live far enough away from him that they don't have to worry having a cache stolen. IMO

I can understand that and if this was happening where I'm at I would disable my caches and pull them for a bit all the while ignoring the person causing all of the problems.

I guess you could disable your caches and say you're pulling them then it would be up to the thief whether he wants to take a gamble on it not being there and move on to another one.

Sure it doesn't take care of everyones cache but you can look out for your own that way and hopefully by ignoring him he will go away in the mean time.

2.5k · January 12, 2004

Just out of curiousity I went to look at his site. I'm a bit confused about how his game is being played. Are the cache owners supposed to go find these caches or could anybody go. If anybody goes and finds them, where do they get logged? I don't see any area for logs on that site. And what if you already found it before, you can't really log it here twice. I guess I'm not understanding how to play his game.

January 12, 2004

Please don't anyone do anything stupid.

The guy's info is not likely accurate so don't go harrassing whoever you think is behind the site because you may be targeting some innocent.

If you are getting info from his domain registration, it could all be made up. I am no expert having registered just one domain name but there is no need for any of that info to be accurate.

Les.

1.2k · January 12, 2004

I'm not understanding how to play his game.

I think you just did play his little game...oops so did I.

2.5k · January 12, 2004

I'm not understanding how to play his game.

I think you just did play his little game...oops so did I.

Did I win? :unsure:

January 12, 2004

Geocaching won't be any fun without us all having MORAL INTEGRITY and honesty. Yes, there are bad people out there...but, that's what makes me appreciate people out there who go to extraordinary lengths to show us great kindness (1 Corinthians 13:8)

2.1k · January 12, 2004

I'm not understanding how to play his game.

I think you just did play his little game...oops so did I.

Did I win?

I dunno, what's your stats?

3.9k · January 12, 2004

Please don't anyone do anything stupid.

The guy's info is not likely accurate so don't go harrassing whoever you think is behind the site because you may be targeting some innocent.

If you are getting info from his domain registration, it could all be made up. I am no expert having registered just one domain name but there is no need for any of that info to be accurate.

Les.

Did ya get a GPS yet? :unsure:

January 13, 2004

Please don't anyone do anything stupid.

The guy's info is not likely accurate so don't go harrassing whoever you think is behind the site because you may be targeting some innocent.

If you are getting info from his domain registration, it could all be made up. I am no expert having registered just one domain name but there is no need for any of that info to be accurate.

Les.

And who says that's whats being done?

Guess again.

Anyone with basic knowledge can check and see what other domains this guy owns.

Anyone with basic knowledge can then check cached versions of a former company website.

Anyone with basic knowledge can check public records of said former company.

Anyone with ISP connections can get his billing info from his upstream provider.

Anyone with basic knowledge and willing to spend $25 at one of those online detectve agencies can uncover a wealth of knowlege.

This guy is either very brave, or very stupid.

January 13, 2004

As much as I hate to post on this thread, I feel I need to. A quick whois on his domain name gives me information that a business called "godaddy.com" is hosting his site.

In godaddy's legal info it says:

"Go Daddy explicitly reserves the right and sole discretion to: a. Censor any web site hosted on its Web Hosting servers that, in Go Daddy’s sole discretion, is deemed inappropriate; b. Review every Web Hosting account for excessive space and bandwidth utilization and to terminate or apply additional fees to those accounts that exceed allowed levels; c. Modify its pricing through email notification; d. Terminate Your Web Hosting service for unsolicited, commercial e-mailing (i.e., SPAM); illegal access to other computers or networks (i.e., hacking); distribution of Internet viruses or similar destructive activities; non-payment of Web Hosting fees; and other activities whether lawful or unlawful that Go Daddy determines to be harmful to its other customers, operations, or reputation; e. Terminate Your Web Hosting service if the contents of Your web site result in, or are the subject of, legal action or threatened legal action, against Go Daddy or any of its affiliates or partners, without consideration for whether such legal action or threatened legal action is eventually determined to be with or without merit."

It can't hurt if all of us email the site hoster. It might not get rid of his site for good but it could put him out of business for a little while. Just a thought....feel free to tell me to mind my own business. :unsure:

6.4k · January 13, 2004

As much as I hate to post on this thread, I feel I need to. A quick whois on his domain name gives me information that a business called "godaddy.com" is hosting his site.

Are you sure? Looks to me that godaddy is simply his registrar (the place he registered the domain through).

Looks to me the one you want to contact is

Williams Communications Group (WCG3-DOM)

111 E. 1st ST.

Tulsa, OK 74103-2808

US

Domain Name: WCG.NET

Administrative Contact: Center, Network Operations (YDAAUAZAAI) noc@wcg.net

Wiltel Communications

3180 Rider Trail South

Bridgeton, MO 63045

US

800-934-8434

January 13, 2004

Ah I was in a hurry and walking out the door. Sorry bout that, you're right! But in any case, you could try explaining geocaching to his host and see what they have to say about his site. I don't know...just a thought.

1.6k · January 13, 2004

Just tell his host that he is promoting vandalism and/or theft...

And as he'd say, since caches are private property being put into public domain, then he's also promoting vandalism/theft of PUBLIC property...

Edited January 13, 2004 by TeamK-9

January 13, 2004

Currently living life as a middle school assistant principal in Brooklyn I have the following to say about this jack@ss:

1. Two wrongs always make a right in my school.

2. If you live near him and are going to send pizza, make sure it is the right address.

3. If you send pizza, be sure to send two taxis from competing companies, chinese food and 1-800-MATTRESS at the same time.

This guy is a clown and deserves a serious beat down. It is not cool to have your caches stolen (I had one destroyed). I would feel sorry for the person who ran into a cacher who's cache they were in the process of destroying. Someone coming across them is one thing...intent is another.

I may have to resurrect the old "Whoring..." thread, with a different focus. Just out of curiosity - does anyone know how he became a member and was his big melt-down due only to his unapproved multi?

3k · January 13, 2004

Just out of curiosity - does anyone know how he became a member and was his big melt-down due only to his unapproved multi?[/color]

Don't know where he came from but can tell ya where he can go.

As far as the melt down, it was all planned for a bit anyway. Do a search on the threads he has started and you will see what I mean.

January 13, 2004

How can we stop this knuckelhead?

Simple. IGNORE HIM! He wants attention. Don't give him any and he goes away.

Don't e-mail him, don't IM him, don't start topics that mention him, don't visit his website and post in his forums and don't respond to his posts. If you are a victim, quietly replace your cache and delete his logs and any that mention him and move on.

I agree this is probably the best way.

4.4k · January 13, 2004

I will go back and read it all but I rescued all 3 today.

Pirates watch out were watching you and now we got your fingerprints as well.

1.7k · January 14, 2004

My plan is:

If a cache gets stolen, archive the page, rescue the cache, sit on it at home and don't post anything.

If someone wants to help retrieve it, they can offer by E-mail.

Eventually that site will be chock full of erroneous information.

You should be able to replace the cache shortly.

January 14, 2004

WHATS THE BIG DEAL? NOT MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THREATS FROM EMAIL WAS NOTHING. SO STEALING SHOULD BE ABOUT THE SAME. MAYBE HE WILL BE GIVING THE CACHES AS A BIRTHDAY GIFT.

:unsure:

January 14, 2004

WHATS THE BIG DEAL? NOT MANY PEOPLE THOUGHT THAT THREATS FROM EMAIL WAS NOTHING. SO STEALING SHOULD BE ABOUT THE SAME. MAYBE HE WILL BE GIVING THE CACHES AS A BIRTHDAY GIFT.

WHAT, I CAN'T HEAR YOU, CAN YOU YELL LOUDER? lol :mad:

3k · January 14, 2004

The big deal is that ALL CAPS is considered yelling in forums, chat, email etc. Please respect other forum members and hit the caps lock button to turn the caps off. Thanks :unsure:

January 14, 2004

I AM NORMALLY LOUD, SO WHY SHOULD I CHANGE :mad:

PUT IN EAR PLUGS IF YOU WANT TO QUIET ME DOWN :unsure:

1.2k · January 14, 2004

Dude you have got to stop that. It ain't right.

January 14, 2004

WHAT I CAN NOT HEAR YOUOVER ALL THE YELLING :unsure:

Edited January 14, 2004 by WAUKESHA WIZARDS

3 So Far :(

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