Twin Mountain Lion Attack In Park

1.2k · January 12, 2004

...in many of the articles they state that the fires may have pushed too many predators out of their territory...

I was amazed to hear on CNN Headline that the mountain lion may have relocated due to the fires.

The attacks took place a very long way from any fire area in the last couple of years. This is a completely separate set of hills.

I would say it is very close to impossible that this particular cat was affected by the fires.

Dave_W6DPS

Er, since when would accuracy be a criteria for CNN??????

:unsure: :blink:

January 13, 2004

The attacks took place a very long way from any fire area in the last couple of years. This is a completely separate set of hills.

I would say it is very close to impossible that this particular cat was affected by the fires.

Maybe...maybe not. A single male lion can travel up to 25 miles a night in search of food. Home range territories can be up to 175 square miles. An indirect relationship may also be a possibility. Imagine that the fires affected some other lions home range, causing it to move, which in turn affected this lions home range. A sort of domino effect. Past fires can also come into play. The burned vegetation regenerates, forming a rich food source for prey species that grow in abundance, in turn increasing the populations of predator species. Cycles upon cycles. Centers of influence pushing other centers of influence. Relationship and interconnectedness.

I think it important to have knowledge of lion behavior but you must also put it into use. Develop a sense of wilderness survival skills, like awareness of your surroundings, the trees, the tracks, the trail, the terrain, the smell, the sound. Not unlike being aware in an urban situation. Paint eyes on the back of your riding helmet. Go in groups. Don't wear headphones while jogging a trail. Learn from other wild things and apply the human strengths. We are seen as prey at least by some cats in some situations.

I might start carrying a big ol' knife when I go walking. :blink: Ninja-like. Went for a hike the other day and followed an old dirt road. Lots of deer, and dog or coyote tracks. Pigs and pig wallows too. A little more nerve racking walking back in the dark. Don't want my intestines eaten out. :unsure:

Edited January 13, 2004 by Coffea robusta

1.1k · January 13, 2004

Paint eyes on the back of your riding helmet.

In case someone gets a chukle out of this, there was a series a few years back on Nature or one of those type shows where the people in India in Tiger country wore mask backwards and this either slowed or stopped Tiger attacks.

logscaler.

2.7k · January 13, 2004

We just charge in, take their land away, call them savages and call for their destruction. So goes the wild in wilderness. We did it to the Indians also.

I will rant no more.

Let 'em show me the deed!

2.7k · January 13, 2004

Ironic
The Game Warden in N.M. that charged me for killing the Mountian Lion in self defense told the Judge the Same thing the day I appeared in Court to defend myself,again. This is the same year that Operation Game Theif(Yes I was the First to get it) was Started and also the same year Mountian Lions were put on the Endangered Species list.

Mr. Warden to Judge,

If you would have thrown a rock at it or waved your arms at it it would have taken off..............you were in no danger.

Me thinking,

Yea Right...

I tried to explain how the Lion had snuck up on me while hunting Coyotes,I was in Full Cammo,back then I was Trapping so I really smelt well,you know and crouched behind a bush when all of the Sudden I spotted it jumping at me and got him before he got me.

But as is said Mr. Warden is always right.

At least It is on record.

And Mountian Lions are no longer Endangered Species.

Found Guilty .

Fined $310.00 and Court costs.

(Part of the reason of being a tree hugger type now.)It would take up too much space here to tell the whole story.

I guess thats the catch 22 you try to defend Nature and the Earth as best you can but there are some things we just can not do.

The Things that are Wild are just that WILD.

I was enlightened to the meaning today of

Adventure A happening

1. The encountering of DANGER,

2. A daring,hazardous undertaking

a liking for danger,excitement,etc. to take a risk!

Put the warden face to face with a cougar and see which "rocks" he picks up. I'm betting the rock says "Glock" on it.

(Reminds me of the joke about fishing with dynamite)

2.7k · January 13, 2004

My Nephew, (formerly Dragonboy24, now LordOfDragons) told of seeing a ML on a school trip on a nature trail (KY).

I dismissed it as a kid's exaggeration (probably saw something moving in a tree- I once shot a bluejay in the top of a tree that I SWEAR I thought was a squirrel)

This thread has got me thinking. I am usually so focused on the hunt that i am not really aware of things going on around me.

Wake up call!

January 13, 2004

my brother in law hikes with a staff. On top of this staff is a bag with a bell on it. The bag is placed over the end of his staff and conceals the double edged knife that is affixed to the staff to make it a spear. The intent is to tip the spear towards the cat if it attacks so that it impales itself.

If he can tell it is pouncing that is!

2.2k · January 13, 2004

Would Mace have any effect on a mountain lion?

Although, it might be kind of hard to use it on him if he had you by the head. You would end up spraying yourself in the process.

2.7k · January 13, 2004

<unabashed snip>my brother in law hikes with a staff</snip>

Best idea I've seen yet.

A staff of 5 bodygaurds, one on each side o ya, and an extra to replace the first one the cat eats.

Another good idea is the portable hole. Just throw it down in front of the pouncing cat- instant tiger trap.

4.8k · January 13, 2004

Here in Nebraska, a mountain lion was reported several times wandering around a golf course in Lincoln. But at least the course was on the edge of the city. Later, one was sedated and captured in urban Omaha. It had to travel through suburbs, strip malls, and other generally busy areas to get there (they believe it followed a creek bed through the area). Both cities are in Eastern NE, so it is a long way from normal territory. I would guess that wilderness loss and things like fires can drive them out of their territory along with causing them to be less shy of humans. Anyway, I have always wanted to see one, but I am rethinking that now!

January 13, 2004

Just to tidy up answers to some of the questions...

(Or not...)

This happened at the bottom of cactus hill in Whiting Ranch

when mtn bikers go down the hill, they commonly drop a chain

because of how rutted and generally bumpy the single track is...

It is very common to see people at the bottom hunched over their bikes

putting their chains back on.

(Happens to me in the same spot all the time.)

But that day, the cougar jumped this fellow.

(Evidently he was of pretty small build.)

Whether or not the second was another attack or just defending the kill

is hard to say, but the first man was eaten by the cougar(s).

For those who are looking for coord's I can tell you now the park is closed off

and will be for some time. Don't even bother.

There are rangers posted day and night at every gate.

January 13, 2004

Just announced on local Wash. state news. Two 16 yr.old girls spot cougar near them by Sequim on the olympic penninsula next to the Dungeness River. The girls waded into the river went downstream and ran to a neighbors house.

2.6k · January 13, 2004

To combat the ignorant voters fish and game extended the season from one week to 52 weeks. We can not keep up and they are doing a lot of damage.

There are times, many times, when voters haven't a clue.

The rule of thumb in Oregon is shoot them on site and it isn't working. We can't hunt them effectivly and it will result in loss of human life soon.

At least you can hunt them there, they havent been hunted here in Ca. since the early mid 70s, since the moratorium. At the time the experts were saying there were less then 500 mountain lions in the state, which was a bunch of cr-p.

January 13, 2004

If you are afraid of squirrels, don't act like a nut.

3.1k · January 13, 2004

At least you can hunt them there, they havent been hunted here in Ca. since the early mid 70s, since the moratorium. At the time the experts were saying there were less then 500 mountain lions in the state, which was a bunch of cr-p.

I used to live in CA and I know how screwed up they done things there especially in regardless to fish and game. But when humans lives are at stake you'd think they'd ignore the tree huggers. Now we're getting more and more like CA all the time. Fish and Game up here are livid and they figure after a few humans get eaten then maybe, just maybe the public will allow hunters to go back to using dogs and bait which are the only effective ways to hunt them.

There are too many of them and I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the city dwellers. Live like we do for a few weeks and they'd probably feel a lot differently about their cute little 200 pound kitty cats.

1.8k · January 13, 2004

There are too many of them and I put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the city dwellers.

Brother Darryl, is that you?

1.1k · January 13, 2004

I have never lived in cat country and have never seen a big cat. I would like to, maybe not to close of an encounter, but close enough. Common sense tells me understanding an animals behavior and triggers go a long way to interacting with them safely.

All animals (us included) react to conditioning and environmental stimulus. I know this because I drool every time I see a Wendy's commercial. I have owned numerous dogs, cats, snakes, frogs and fish. They all react to stimulus and conditioning. The big cats are no different.

So the next time I find myself bike riding in cat country I will do my best not to act or sound like a big electric can opener. Maybe we can build a bicycle that sounds like the vacuum cleaner.

2.5k · January 13, 2004

Would Mace have any effect on a mountain lion?

Not sure, but catnip will!

January 23, 2004

I hate to bring the mountain lion up to the front again, but I was checking on my best friend (best man) who lives in Orange County right on the edge of the Santa Ana Mountains (Dove Canyon). He runs trail marathons and mountain bikes right there in mountain lion country. I thought I'd share this email from him with you all:

"Yeah, well, I've got a newfound interest in religion since I confirmed my guardian angel. That mountain biker was eaten on MY running trail about noon. I run from my shop into Whiting Ranch, along that exact trail roughly 3-4 times a week. In the winter, I usually step out 3:30 to get at least 1.5 hours until dark. That day was a running day and I was looking forward to it. I kept making little mistakes, dumb ones that ate up my time. I wanted to finish what I was working on, but was frustrated that something kept making me screw up. I (and this is no s***) even looked to the heavens and said "what the #!(*&%$ is with you, and why are you screwing with me today?" We hermit type self-employed people have monologues often.

I resolved to hitting the treadmill at the new gym I just joined, for my running time was cut too short. When I came out of the gym and returned to my car, the cell phone was full of calls from Penny, worried sick about my whereabouts. The neighbors were all calling her, because it was breaking news about an attack on two women in Whiting Ranch. It just so happens that I would have been at exactly the same spot on the trail at exactly the same time that the girls were attacked. Seems the guy was attacked and eaten earlier as he was fixing a busted chain, crouched down and small. The lion buried him and was watching over hie prey when the women came across the same trail and saw his bike. Apparently, they were investigating the abandoned bike, maybe poking in the bushes, and the lion felt the need to pounce on one of them. I was pretty rattled for a few days, for that was my ticket, I'm sure. Something put me back in line, and I'm a bit confused about the ironies of that day. I mean, I would have been either been attacked or helping that woman had I not made some stupid little mistakes. Hmmmm.....

I'm still trail running, but keeping a look behind me. I pick up a rock or two when I enter tight spaces, and can be heard yelling and barking as I come into blind corners. Kind of spooky, but that was a freak instance. I wonder how many time I have been watched and stalked. Shudder!"

1.2k · January 23, 2004

Now this is the third time today someone has come to that stump, removed a container, did something to the contents, replaced it and left. Sure strange. Now I'm starting to get hungry. Oh good...here comes another one.

January 23, 2004

I think cats (and other predators) have their place. If we kill one of them they don't take revenge. Look at the numbers more people are killed by bees in one year than cats in the last decade. Removing rouges from the area is OK in my book. <_<

Edited January 23, 2004 by BeadBoy

6.4k · April 5, 2004

GPS-related update

2.7k · April 5, 2004

I have seen one cat while hiking a trail to check on 2 of my remote Caches, and saw sign on Crosier Mtn. where I have about 3 caches. Yesterday when scouting out an area for another cache, I came across a fresh cat kill. But will still put the Cache back in there someplace. And have a cache that was named after a visitor to the area

The Puma.

They are just part of the landscape around here, if one is cautious and pays more attention to their surroundings than watching the needle on the GPS one should have no problem.

1.4k · April 5, 2004

It's a rare occasion that I don't see either bearsign, or lion tracks (with or without the trackmaker standing in them) when I'm out hiking or hunting. I've had about twice as many sightings of bears than lions, but the cats never bothered me as much as the bears did. Granted, 2 of the bear encounters were in Alaska and 1 of those wanted my salmon. I let him have it.

I agree with Tahosa. Keep an eye on whats around you, and don't freak out.

Finally, always bring a buddy along. One you can outrun......

April 5, 2004

In my neck of the woods it's black bear country. I usually cache with 1 or 2 dogs.

April 5, 2004

I went and bought a nine mil the next week to pack.

What are you going to shoot with a nine? Are you going to shoot yourself before the cat can do you in?

3k · April 5, 2004

I saw a mountain lion in CT a number of years back. He didn't like being woken up and loped off into the woods. He was very comfortable sunning himself on that big rock.

April 6, 2004

I know one thing. After reading about these big cat attacks, I'm going to watch out for my neighbors big grey tabby from here on out. I think he's tried to stalk me once or twice before, but I was always near my house door or the car and was able to get away.

Edited April 6, 2004 by RockyRiver

1.3k · April 6, 2004

I went and bought a nine mil the next week to pack.

What are you going to shoot with a nine? Are you going to shoot yourself before the cat can do you in?

I think the idea is that you hold the gun until the animal has your hand down his throat and is chewing on your arm...

And then you realize you left the safety on...

---------------------------------------

The study in Cuyamaca Rancho State Park, 35 miles east of San Diego, found that during the day, the GPS-collared lions typically slept at least a football field's length away from the nearest trail and even farther from buildings.

.

Hmmmm... That describes 90% of the caches I visit...

Edited April 6, 2004 by bons

9.4k · April 6, 2004

The study in Cuyamaca Rancho State Park, 35 miles east of San Diego, found that during the day, the GPS-collared lions typically slept at least a football field's length away from the nearest trail and even farther from buildings.
.

Hmmmm... That describes 90% of the caches I visit...

It's the ones without the collars you have to worry about

1.8k · April 6, 2004

Well, after an extensive search of the forums, nearby caches, and the local mailing list, I can't find the posting I remember seeing last year, but someone took photos of a cougar up by Lake Cushman, and last fall, when my daughter, brother, and I were fishing at Elk Lake (about 7.5 miles NW, nearest cache now is Hamma Hamma Vista), as we walked back to the car, we heard what sounded like a baby's cry in the bushes off to our left.

We quickened the pace to the car and skedaddled out of there.

April 6, 2004

As someone has already posted here before, mountain lions don't fear humans as they SHOULD.

I carry a hiking stick, but honestly I doubt it would do much good if you were surprised from behind. IMO the best bet is to go in a group. If one of you gets jumped, the rest can at least do something to fend the lion away. As others have pointed out, these animals don't like a fight.

Does anyone know if carrying a cattle prod/taser would be legal to fend off these creatures? I would buy one if they made one that was integrated with a hiking stick.

April 6, 2004

As someone has already posted here before, mountain lions don't fear humans as they SHOULD.

I carry a hiking stick, but honestly I doubt it would do much good if you were surprised from behind. IMO the best bet is to go in a group. If one of you gets jumped, the rest can at least do something to fend the lion away. As others have pointed out, these animals don't like a fight.

Does anyone know if carrying a cattle prod/taser would be legal to fend off these creatures? I would buy one if they made one that was integrated with a hiking stick.

Legality would vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. You would have to check locally.

Twin Mountain Lion Attack In Park

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