So Much For A Ban On Holiday Caches

[+klaus23]

Gentlemen- if a cacher from Indiana is allowed to place a cache in Limerick, Ireland, what is one to make of your ban on holiday caches???

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=110102

[+Firth of Forth]

Are you sure that it is a holiday cache? Some people visit other countries regularly and are able to maintain caches, or have local friends or relatives who can do so.

[+klaus23]

I would like to hear it from the person who approved it. I'm just curious.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Please don't assume that the hider skirted the guidelines. Some people have family members and friends living in other countries who can maintain a cache for them. Personally I feel that information should be listed on the cache page, but a friendly email to the placer or your local approver should be able to clear things up rather than ranting in the forums.

[+Sparky-Watts]

Interesting. Joined Jan 6, and placed a cache half a world away the same day? Sounds as though he's got a good knowledge of the area, as if he visits frequently, or perhaps even lives there. His location he listed in the profile may not be totally honest, but if it is, I'm sure he got this approved by convincing the approver he visits the area frequently enough to do proper maintenence as required. Vacation (holiday) caches have not been banned, per se, if in fact the placer can prove it's not really a vacation cache, i.e., that he/she is close enough or visits frequently enough to perform maintenence within a reasonable time, usually 2 weeks or less. Just my opinion.

[+klaus23]

Again- not being aggressive- I have considered the points made- relatives etc- I am just wondering how the site works this...?

[+klaus23]

BTW- Team Saxophone- I am not "ranting" in the forums- I am simply making an enquiry in a public e.g. Geocaching-related environment. Cheers.

[+Sparky-Watts]

BTW- Team Saxophone- I am not "ranting" in the forums- I am simply making an enquiry in a public e.g. Geocaching-related environment. Cheers.

Maybe it was the in the first post that confused him.

[+klaus23]

Possibly... LOL

[+hedberg]

Maybe it's an exchange student living in Ireland for the moment?

 

Or he perhaps works for a company and has Ireland as his market, and goes there frequently?

 

I don't think that there should be any requirements of writing your full story of your life on a cache page. If it works and the cache is being checked and maintained, then it's fine for me.

 

But it has happened that even people living a mile away from the cache doesn't care about it, so the distance to the cache doesn't really matter - the only thing that matters is that the cache are in good condition and get it's maintenance.

[Lactodorum]

Friends - I am the reviewer who approved the cache in question so please allow me to give you some of the story. I will not disclose details as I believe these are confidential between the setter and I.

 

The gentleman in question submitted the cache a few days ago and I immediately put it on hold as I noticed his home territory was over 3600 miles away. My thoughts were that this was a "holiday cache"

 

He very quickly got back to me and explained that due to his occupation (hinted at in his nickname) he was a very regular visitor to the area and spent quite a lot of time in the vicinity. He assured me that he would be able to maintain the cache very quickly (within a week) should it be necessary.

 

I also agreed with him that should he cease to regularly visit the area we would put the cache "up for adoption".

 

I trust this answers people's concerns.

 

Let me also say that I am encouraged by the concerns raised in this thread as they prove to me that people know the guidelines and are as keen as the reviewers to see that they are applied.

 

Thanks for raising it (in a perfectly proper manner ) klaus23

 

Lactodorum

UK & Ireland Admin

[+Eckington]

Again- not being aggressive- I have considered the points made- relatives etc- I am just wondering how the site works this...?

Hy Guys,

 

To try and expnd on a point that Lactodorum made above.

 

When we look at a proposed cache on the reviewers' queue there is a note ( a new and very helpful development for reviewers) as to how far the cache is from the setters home co-ords (assuming they logged them when they signed up etc). It becomes very obvious as to how far people live from their set caches and the probability of them being holiday caches.

 

The protocol then is to hold the cache, as Lactodorum has said, and e-mail for

more information.

 

This gives the setter the chance to explain about relatives, friends, job committment etc. Sometime the setter themselves is able to introduce themselves to a member of the community, cacher or non-cacher, and arrange for them to maintain the cache. If this is satisfactory the cache is approved

 

If this is not satisfactory, or no infomation is forthcoming we try, via this forum, to get the cache adopted, or at least to find someone to act as local agent. I have done this myself for 4 caches since June 2003.

 

If all fails we would have to try and get a cacher to visit the cache and remove it. Thankfully this has not happened yet.

 

I would add that it is not only overseas cachers we check in this way. I have queried caches set by northerners in Cornwall, by midlanders in Ireland, and by northern home counties cachers in offshore islands.

 

Again, thankfully, the question of vacation caches, though it exists, is not common. The amount of time and effort required to sort these, sometimes, can be quite large.

 

Similarly the question of the placement of virtual caches is very difficult. We both spend a lot of time trying to persuade people to re-read the GC.com guidelines and see that the virtual cache they wish to set is not actually within the spirit of the guidelines. We both try to keep a flexible approach and, given a valid argument, are prepared to re-think our decisions. But the guidelines are precise and we have to follow them.

 

I would, at this point, like to state that by far the majority of those caches that raise debate are not set by regular correspondents to this forum. I am trying to raise the awareness of this forum in the UK geocaching community by adding a sig line to all my e-mails (as Eckington ) reminding people the forum exists.

 

I seem to have gone on a bit , sorry , but I hope it explains some of the issues we have to face.

 

Cheers, and, of course, Cache Well,

 

Eckington

[+Sparky-Watts]

Very good of both Eck and Lactodorum to reply. I thought by reading the descripition that the fellow was quite familiar with the area, as I stated in a previous post. Also good of Klaus23 to question the placement. We do seem to be somewhat of a self-policing community. Nothing wrong with asking questions about unusual circumstances. Cache on!

[+Pharisee]

Mr Eckington, sir & Mr Lactodorum

 

In general terms and rough figures.... how far would you allow a cache to be placed from the setters QTH before you questioned its validity?

 

I got no problem.... just asking...

[+Eckington]

.....as far as I am concerned, probably between 50 and 75 miles (Lactodorum may feel a little differently), but there is an added factor, in that if I knew the setter, and was aware of the ranging he/she did across the countryside in pursuit if this great sport of ours, I may allow more lattitude (and longtitude!)

[Lactodorum]

In general terms and rough figures.... how far would you allow a cache to be placed from the setters QTH before you questioned its validity?

Oh dear, I hoped nobody would ask that question !!!

 

Unfortunately I can't give a precise answer as it very much depends on circumstances. Do I know the cacher? What is the area like? Is there any information supplied (like "I vist there on business" or "My mother lives down the road")? etc. etc. etc. This is a very imprecise science and we always try to be flexible when we can.

 

However, by the very act of being flexible we build in inconsistency and this can rebound on us. I would appeal for everyone's forbearance as we try to do the "right thing".

 

I would suggest that anything over 50 miles is definitely suspect and anything under 20 miles is probably OK. It's the in-betweens that really cause the problems.

 

So, I hope that gives some insight into the thought processes involved and I'm sorry I can't be more precise.

 

Lactodorum

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I would suggest that anything over 50 miles is definitely suspect and anything under 20 miles is probably OK. It's the in-betweens that really cause the problems.

Over 50 miles would (probably) be considered vacation? Wow! Here in the states, especially the large ones in the West, 50 miles is a small distance. I used to commute 70 miles from home to school when I lived in California. I would regularly drive 60 miles to visit my parents on weekends.

Where I live now, 50 miles doesn't even get to a good ski area. Heck, when I lived in Colorado I had to drive for nearly 2 hours to do that! I soppose this just goes to show the different cultures that exist in the world.

 

This is why the guidelines are subjective rather than written in stone.

[+Bill D (wwh)]

Over 50 miles would (probably) be considered vacation? Wow! Here in the states, especially the large ones in the West, 50 miles is a small distance. I used to commute 70 miles from home to school when I lived in California. I would regularly drive 60 miles to visit my parents on weekends.

Where I live now, 50 miles doesn't even get to a good ski area. Heck, when I lived in Colorado I had to drive for nearly 2 hours to do that! I soppose this just goes to show the different cultures that exist in the world.

 

This is why the guidelines are subjective rather than written in stone.

Many of our roads tend to be horribly twisty and tortuous, so 50 miles by GPSr can be a lot more than that by road. And petrol (gas) is very much more expensive here, too, with what amounts to 300 per cent tax on it! But it's also a culture thing, too, I think - just different ways of looking at things.

[+welch]

...

When we look at a proposed cache on the reviewers' queue there is a note ( a new and very helpful development for reviewers) as to how far the cache is from the setters home co-ords (assuming they logged them when they signed up etc). It becomes very obvious as to how far people live from their set caches and the probability of them being holiday caches.

The protocol then is to hold the cache, as Lactodorum has said, and e-mail for

more information.

...

Going a bit OT here... but if the account does not list home coords., what do you do?

I assume you look at the person's profile, Or check to see where caches they've found/placed are. But what if they're nothing listed(new account?), or the finds don't give you clear picture, are they put on hold while you request information?

[Lactodorum]

Going a bit OT here... but if the account does not list home coords., what do you do?

I assume you look at the person's profile, Or check to see where caches they've found/placed are. But what if they're nothing listed(new account?), or the finds don't give you clear picture, are they put on hold while you request information?

Hi Welch, the answers to your questions are generally "Yes"

 

We do all of what you suggest. Most people DO enter their home co-ordinates so we can get an idea of their "home area". Approval is very much an imprecise science and we try to err on the side of approving rather than denying (which is why we get occasional postings such as this thread).

 

However, where no co-ordinates nor past history is available we tend to be trusting old souls and all else being equal we probably approve the cache. Yes, we have been "bitten" in the past but mostly it works out well.

 

After all this is a GAME and is mostly played in the correct spirit by an overwhelmingly friendly bunch of people.

[+Eckington]

...

When we look at a proposed cache on the reviewers' queue there is a note ( a new and very helpful development for reviewers) as to how far the cache is from the setters home co-ords (assuming they logged them when they signed up etc).  It becomes very obvious as to how far people live from their set caches and the probability of them being holiday caches.

The protocol then is to hold the cache, as Lactodorum has said, and e-mail for

more information.

...

Going a bit OT here... but if the account does not list home coords., what do you do?

I assume you look at the person's profile, Or check to see where caches they've found/placed are. But what if they're nothing listed(new account?), or the finds don't give you clear picture, are they put on hold while you request information?

......funny you should ask that Welch, I got one yesterday that was very close. No home co-ords, no profile, in fact no hides or founds, BUT the cache up for approval was ok as far as gc.com guidelines go, so I approved it, and e-mailed the setters thus:

 

"Eckington from UK admin here.

 

I see you are new to the game! Welcome.

 

I am going to approve the "clearances" cache as it bides by gc.com guidelines. I note you have not yet posted your home co-ordinates on the site and so I do not know how far you live away from the cache and if maintenance might be a problem. I hope you will be able to assure me you can visit that cache regularly and if necessary quite quickly,.

 

Cheers and Cache Well,

 

Eckington"

 

So far no reply..............

 

......one trouble is the cache, and lest assume this one is OK, that is set on vacation, and has no-one to adopt and maintain, becomes geo-litter, and to remove it then becomes the problem. However, as I said before, I've not had one of those yet, thank goodness!

 

Cheers

 

E

[+Omally]

Over 50 miles would (probably) be considered vacation? Wow! Here in the states, especially the large ones in the West, 50 miles is a small distance. I used to commute 70 miles from home to school when I lived in California. I would regularly drive 60 miles to visit my parents on weekends.

Where I live now, 50 miles doesn't even get to a good ski area. Heck, when I lived in Colorado I had to drive for nearly 2 hours to do that! I soppose this just goes to show the different cultures that exist in the world.

Forgive me for going OT, but I couldn't resist:

 

"An Englishman thinks 200 miles is a long way, an American thinks 200 years is a long time"

 

Of course, it never took anyone (not even me) 200 years to find a cache yet...

 

[MCL]

Of course, it never took anyone (not even me) 200 years to find a cache yet...

 

Mind you it sometimes feels like 200 years when you are actually looking for the dratted thing!

[+Omally]

Of course, it never took anyone (not even me) 200 years to find a cache yet...

 

Mind you it sometimes feels like 200 years when you are actually looking for the dratted thing!

Sorry, did you say "Lofty"?