geko 201 Posted January 8, 2004 Posted January 8, 2004 On the cache have a geocache number e.g. 163784 and then online when you go to log the cache you just type in that number. But without the number you can still look at it and stuff. And then that would stop people claiming that they have found it but have not. What do you think?
SE7EN Posted January 8, 2004 Posted January 8, 2004 Do a search on the forums and you will find plenty of arguements of why it's not a good idea once you think it through. Basically, it comes down to it would cause all caches to become "Codeword Caches." People would stop seeing the need for a logbooks, then swag, then maintenance, then containers. Next thing you know, a cache is just a slip of paper thrown on the ground.
+bons Posted January 8, 2004 Posted January 8, 2004 More and more I agree with people who don't even log their finds. I have a few virtuals I never bothered to log because, quite frankly, I'm not in this game for the purpose of mailing someone test answers and being graded. I have no problems taking a photo of the area, but "quick quiz" virtuals leave me cold. So it's visit the cache but don't waste my time logging it. Make it more difficult for me to log physical caches and I'll quit doing that as well. I can mark them as "found" in watcher a lot easier than I can mark them as found on Geocaching.com.
+travisl Posted January 8, 2004 Posted January 8, 2004 Me: Pssst... hey geko 201: the answer to NoCacher's 'Some Cache I Made Up' is 'Swordfish'. Geko 201: Thanks Geko 201 (to NoCacher): I found 'Some Cache I Made Up'; the keyword is swordfish. NoCacher: You're in New Zealand, and you found a cache in Holland? You've got the right word, though, so you must've been there. Wish I'd put a logbook in to check.
+DustyJacket Posted January 8, 2004 Posted January 8, 2004 By making the logbook the verification device, maybe it would make a few cache owners actually visit their caches more often, if they were the type to worry about false finds. I visit my caches every 3 months or so. They are always moved around or hidden differently.
+IV_Warrior Posted January 8, 2004 Posted January 8, 2004 Psst: travisl I signed your name in the logbook to "SomeCacheIFound" found it last night. Hurry up and log it. See, if people want to "cheat" they still will, and there's really not much that can be done......logbooks just prove that SOMEONE found the cache and signed a particular name in it.....
+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite Posted January 8, 2004 Posted January 8, 2004 Don't sweat the small stuff, it will drive you nucking futs.
+bons Posted January 9, 2004 Posted January 9, 2004 They are always moved around or hidden differently. Maint Trip thought: "Wow. That's much better than the way I hid it. Why didn't I do that when I hid this thing?" Two days later: "Oh yeah. 12 inches of snow. THAT'S why I didn't do that. I knew I had a good reason."
+Volvo Man Posted January 9, 2004 Posted January 9, 2004 Isn't signing the log the whole point of the sport?? I mean some trade, some don't, some log on GC, some don't, but most everyone signs the log, and reads the other logs too.
+HartClimbs Posted January 9, 2004 Posted January 9, 2004 I just pick up the cache and take it with me to prove I was there. Seriously - the idea has merits, but in reality, since there's no real competition involved - there's little reason to verify finds. Of course, the cache owner can sometimes tell from the logs who has/hasn't been there if there's an issue. Anyone who fakes a log is only cheating on him/herself.
+Team GPSaxophone Posted January 9, 2004 Posted January 9, 2004 Now that I have a digital camera, I've been taking a picture of my Saxy Smurf at each cache.
+Lone Duck Posted January 9, 2004 Posted January 9, 2004 I have to agree that having some sort of proof system that someone visited the cache wouldn't work very well because a cheat would quickly figure out a way around it. The nearest thing now is the log book, and that's not it's purpose. The real fun in hiding a cache is collecting the logs. I always enjoy reading what others have written in the logs, and for that reason alone I don't care about being FTF because I would miss out on that!
+radioscout Posted January 10, 2004 Posted January 10, 2004 I can't find no reason for logging a cache without having found it. Why should someone do this? It must be very awkward to be caught by the cache owner and have the log deleted or have a comment added to the log saying that one has not logged it in the paper log book inside the cache.
+briansnat Posted January 10, 2004 Posted January 10, 2004 So it's visit the cache but don't waste my time logging it Then a lot of people will stop placing caches. The point of placing caches to me, is for others to find them. If people stop logging them, then as far as I know, my caches are just sitting there, undiscovered. Personally, I'm not going to go through the trouble of putting together and hiding a cache if I have no idea if people are even visiting it.
+bons Posted January 10, 2004 Posted January 10, 2004 I agree. But there's the conflict. You (and many others) want feedback, stories, and the experience. On the other hand, people who are way too caught up in stats, making sure everyone plays by a set of rules thicker than the tax code, and legalities seem to want to make it as difficult as possible to provide that feeback in an effort to keep everything controlled and predictable. The cluetrain manifesto had some interesting observations about conversations: 1) Conversations occur between humans who have human voices 2) Conversations occur only between equals. When people start thinking of moderators and admin and TPTB as having a position over them. Jeremy is just this guy, you know. The moderators are just people helping out. The moment they become authority figures the whole dynamic goes to hell. We've all seen this repeatedly. When I'm taking a quiz to make sure I actually passed the requirements for logging a virtual or logging a physical cache, the same thing occurrs. We quit talking like two friends would naturally talk and we've gone into approval from authority mode. So the feedback, stories, ect aren't going to happen naturally after that. If the cache owner becomes an authority figure, they might as well give up having real conversations with the very people they're trying to interact with.
+ChrisCindy Posted January 10, 2004 Posted January 10, 2004 If you have to cheat to play you are cheating yourself. Why play? You are just occupying bandwidth that I could be using.
The_Brownies Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 Curious? I'm a software tech, and in order to authorize software you need to punch in a keycode that we generate. Why not have Groundspeak create a logbook code to go along with the cache number at the time the cache is approved. The owner then places that number in the front of their caches logbook and when someone finds the cache, they need to write down that number. Then when they log the find, to verify the find, they punch in the logbook number. Maybe someone else has thought of this already.. It's just a thougt..
+Sparky-Watts Posted January 12, 2004 Posted January 12, 2004 Don't sweat the small stuff, it will drive you nucking futs. I agree. Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things!
+Volvo Man Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 Why not have Groundspeak create a logbook code to go along with the cache number at the time the cache is approved. The owner then places that number in the front of their caches logbook and when someone finds the cache, they need to write down that number. Then when they log the find, to verify the find, they punch in the logbook number. the problem with that appears when you get to the cache and the logs gone missing or gotten waterlogged and blurred the number. if it's written on the container, it will wear off soon enough too.
+janni93 Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 I don't want to know how often I would need to return to the cache/contact the owner for the number because I forgot to copy the code or lost the sheet of paper on my way out. Heck, I forgot signing log entries, I forgot to write down tracking numbers of GeoLutins (you'll need them to track them after dropping off), I forgot all sorts of stuff in caches (not meant to be left - like my magnetic compass) There is no point in having a code number for caches - if you want to cheat, you'll find ways to cheat - and as numerous people said before: you are cheating yourself!
SE7EN Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 If anyone is really serious about stopping the cheating then there must be something in the cache that you take which is not easily reproducible and is unique to that cache. Something that you can't take back to your friends and pass around. Or it has to be something that you leave that someone else can't reproduce. So if a codeword can be given out to friends and series of codewords can taken and given to friends, then take is out. So any ideas of what that can be?
+sbell111 Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 The only time a codeword would ever be handy are those few instances where a suspicious log is made, but the cache goes missing (or is destroyed) prior to the owner verifying the log. If the owner waits very long before this verification, he isn't serious about this issue, in my opinion.
The_Brownies Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 Hmm.. GC.com already has travel bugs. What about a metal / plastic logbook tag? The tag would be affixed to the logbook or cache container... Nah.. if they want to cheat let them... The game is not about numbers. It's about fun and the hunt. The only person missing out is the dishonest cacher.
+sbell111 Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 Hmm.. GC.com already has travel bugs. What about a metal / plastic logbook tag? The tag would be affixed to the logbook or cache container... Of course, it would then cost an additional $5 to create a cache.
+Sparky-Watts Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 Hmm.. GC.com already has travel bugs. What about a metal / plastic logbook tag? The tag would be affixed to the logbook or cache container... Of course, it would then cost an additional $5 to create a cache. And $5 everytime someone took the tag, stole the whole cache, plundered, raped, or pillaged the cache, etc......
+sbell111 Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 I'm not comfortable being in agreement with the cat.
The_Brownies Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 Thought #2 -- Put a code word in the cache logbook, or tape a number to the container, or paint the container a certain color. Thought #3 -- Stop hiding caches. Then you do not have to worry about someone logging a bogus find. You won't have to worry about the replacement of the contents, and you won't be annoyed by the sometimes halarious logs you get when someone finds your cache.
+*gln Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 I visit my caches every 3 months or so. They are always moved around or hidden differently. I visit mine every so often too. I usually move mine a bit just to keep them guessing.
2oldfarts (the rockhounders) Posted January 14, 2004 Posted January 14, 2004 I think the best thing I can do now is to not log any caches I find! That way you will never know whether or not I was there and you'd have to guess if I was cheating!!! Seriously, get real and quit trying to think up new rules for a game that should be simple to play and simple to enjoy. Why Not go caching more? John
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