Jump to content

Multicache Not Approved


subigo

Recommended Posts

I just spent the last two days setting up a pretty hardcore multicache with a friend. (I still have the thorns in my fingers to prove it) It had three parts and was 10 miles apart. Come to find out it did not get approved today because (part 3) it was too close to another cache, like 400 feet or something. I knew the other one was there so I put it in a totally different part of the park, that you have to get off of the trail to find. My gps told me I was about 465-515 feet from the other cache.

 

I took the time and effort to make laminated business cards with the clue and location of the final cache on them. I placed them in the 2nd cache... now in order to get this cache approved I am going to have to get rid of those cards, make new ones and move my final cache a pathetic 50-100 feet? This is stupid.

 

This was a $150 cache I made and it doesnt get posted because of this. If I have to redo all this work I am just going to remove it all together.

 

I understand rules are rules, but this is retarded. I was actually out there to see how far it was, I bet the approver looked on mapquest. Heh.

Link to comment

The guideline is 528 feet. It is not a hard-and-fast rule. Click on the approver's name on the bottom of your cache page and send them a friendly email explaining why you think your cache should be allowed to be closer than 528 feet.

 

In the future, ask an approver before going around the guidelines. That way you don't spend the money or the time setting something up that won't get approved.

Link to comment
I just spent the last two days setting up a pretty hardcore multicache with a friend. (I still have the thorns in my fingers to prove it) It had three parts and was 10 miles apart. Come to find out it did not get approved today because (part 3) it was too close to another cache, like 400 feet or something. I knew the other one was there so I put it in a totally different part of the park, that you have to get off of the trail to find. My gps told me I was about 465-515 feet from the other cache.

 

I took the time and effort to make laminated business cards with the clue and location of the final cache on them. I placed them in the 2nd cache... now in order to get this cache approved I am going to have to get rid of those cards, make new ones and move my final cache a pathetic 50-100 feet? This is stupid.

 

This was a $150 cache I made and it doesnt get posted because of this. If I have to redo all this work I am just going to remove it all together.

 

I understand rules are rules, but this is retarded. I was actually out there to see how far it was, I bet the approver looked on mapquest. Heh.

Did you tell your approver this. Rather than complain here, maybe if you just reasoned with them. You can do better on the NEXT one. Did you at least try to explain this to them?

 

Sn :lol::rolleyes: gans

Link to comment

If you would of started by trying for a virtual cache then got told to make it a multi...

 

Ah but that's just strategy.

 

400' is as good as 500' and 500 is close to 528 and 528 is just a number and the number just means nobody should be tripping over another cache while looking for yours'.

 

On the other hand 400' rounds to zero.

 

Seriously if your final location has merit ie you have to go more than 528' as the bushwacker walks it should be approvable as that meets both the spirit and intent of the rule. Opposite river banks for example. Or (and I'm hoping this one fly's on a cache I'm working on) the location itself is where the cache needs to be because another location isn't quite right.

Link to comment
I have told him all this... just waiting on a reply.

So you just came here to rant? Have patience, the approvers are volunteers. They aren't going to stay up all night answering emails unless they happen to be up anyway.

 

Maybe Sparky should be an approver... :lol:

He wouldn't turn anything down. There would be ammo boxes everywhere. LOL jk Sparky :rolleyes:

Link to comment
I have told him all this... just waiting on a reply.

So you just came here to rant? Have patience, the approvers are volunteers. They aren't going to stay up all night answering emails unless they happen to be up anyway.

 

Maybe Sparky should be an approver... :lol:

He wouldn't turn anything down. There would be ammo boxes everywhere. LOL jk Sparky :rolleyes:

As long as original contents included 35 cents...

Link to comment

I am not the reviewer who worked on this cache, but I did take a look at it.

 

First off, that one stage is 367 feet away. That's different than 450 or 500 feet.

Second, you received a polite note from the reviewer, asking you for the coordinates for part two, and to please slide the final cache over "just a wee bit." You don't score any points saying his actions are retarded. All he did was *temporarily* archive your cache to remove it from the active queue, until the problem is corrected. Chill out and work with him.

Third, we don't estimate distances with our pinkies on MapQuest. We plug the coordinates in and measure the exact distance using tools provided for that purpose.

 

Had you simply written a note saying "I know that one stage is really close to the existing cache, but there is a big stream separating them and the bridge is quite a distance away" (or whatever reason you have for a variance from the guidelines), then you might not find yourself in this position. That is what the "note to reviewer" field is used for. Yours is blank.

Link to comment

There is 2 caches in Newcastle Beach. 1 is a traditional. Someone else placed a micro multi waypoint 2' from his cache. There is another example of this not 5 miles away where there are 2 micros. One a trad. and the other a multi waypoint on each end of a concrete grandstand 20' apart.

 

We got really confused when that happened. 100-150' apart is certainly far enough apart for a multi waypoint since it is a distance out of the expected accuracy of a GPSr (hence no chance for confusion like I experienced in the other examples) and also because the endpoint is WELL beyond 528'.

 

I have heard the rational for the 528' rule is so you cant simply go and pick them up like pinecones in the forest.

 

I did a cache in Post falls that was a multi and it was about 70+ miles as I remember. But it ended in the same park as it started. For discussions sake lets say the beginning and end caches were 100' apart.

 

Explain the rational for having waypoints 528' apart when I have just traveled 70+ miles on all the other waypoints.

Link to comment
I am not the reviewer who worked on this cache, but I did take a look at it.

 

First off, that one stage is 367 feet away. That's different than 450 or 500 feet.

Second, you received a polite note from the reviewer, asking you for the coordinates for part two, and to please slide the final cache over "just a wee bit." You don't score any points saying his actions are retarded. All he did was *temporarily* archive your cache to remove it from the active queue, until the problem is corrected. Chill out and work with him.

Third, we don't estimate distances with our pinkies on MapQuest. We plug the coordinates in and measure the exact distance using tools provided for that purpose.

 

Had you simply written a note saying "I know that one stage is really close to the existing cache, but there is a big stream separating them and the bridge is quite a distance away" (or whatever reason you have for a variance from the guidelines), then you might not find yourself in this position. That is what the "note to reviewer" field is used for. Yours is blank.

Okay. There are more rules and politics on this site than D.C.

 

I thought this was a game and I was helping it to grow in my area. I can understand why people are not lining up to hide caches if they have to go through so much trouble to have it posted.

 

My gps said it was closer, but it could be wrong. Even if it was 367 feet, the difference is what, 20 seconds?

 

I saw a post a while back about other geocaching sites, and a lot of people laughed at the idea. But who decided that geocaching.com makes the universal rules? I think since they hold such a monopoly on the game right now that they should be a little more laid back.

 

All I know is that in my area right now, I can only go geocaching based on the places and rules geocaching.com tells me I have to follow (and because of this the caches in my area are limited). I am trying, I'm trying real hard to follow along, but it's hard when you only have one option.

 

I will shut up now.

Link to comment

When I say limited, I do not mean there are not a lot of them. What I do mean is that they are limited in creative places they are put. I have not been to one yet that was more than two stars in my mind. I would like it if I have to climb down a cliff, swim through a river, and dig 3 feet in the ground to find caches... but this is not the way it works around here.

 

There are a lot of self-righteous people on geocaching.com

 

Perhaps I should take it upon myself to change the game a bit and spice things up. If half the people here just want to tell me how wrong I am (which is what has happened in many talks with geocachers lately), I just might make my own rules.

Link to comment
There is 2 caches in Newcastle Beach. 1 is a traditional. Someone else placed a micro multi waypoint 2' from his cache...

I was the 2nd find (on the multi) in your first example. I think that was a mistake, they were both approved the same night, and I believe by 2 different approvers. I'm not sure if they were requiring coordinates for each waypoint back then (5-17-2003) were they? If not, it's a good reason to.

 

I was hunting the Multi, and found the traditional by accident, while looking for waypoint 3, I was FTF on the traditional. My only accidental FTF.

Link to comment
When I say limited, I do not mean there are not a lot of them. What I do mean is that they are limited in creative places they are put. I have not been to one yet that was more than two stars in my mind. I would like it if I have to climb down a cliff, swim through a river, and dig 3 feet in the ground to find caches... but this is not the way it works around here.

 

There are a lot of self-righteous people on geocaching.com

 

Perhaps I should take it upon myself to change the game a bit and spice things up. If half the people here just want to tell me how wrong I am (which is what has happened in many talks with geocachers lately), I just might make my own rules.

If you are being told you are wrong, by a lot of people, like you say, I politely suggest, that you actually may be wrong. Have you even considered their points of view? Or do you only listen to people who agree with you? If that's the case, you may be one of those self-righteous people on geocaching.com

Link to comment

i am sry if i sounded negative to your thread so here let me try this angle.ok your limited in the places left to place caches...i know the terrain is a good thing to have 4 starts in but hey you gotta work with what ya got right???how about using that brain of yours and making the difficulty a 4 or 5 star that way you got a great cache that is challanging but on ground that e-one can travel.you know older people and small children like caching too..not many caches ill take my 6 year old on if i gotta swim creeks and climb clifs..not being sarcastic but realistic!!gl in hiding caches in the future man. :rolleyes:

Link to comment

"If you are being told you are wrong, by a lot of people, like you say, I politely suggest, that you actually may be wrong. Have you even considered their points of view? Or do you only listen to people who agree with you? If that's the case, you may be one of those self-righteous people on geocaching.com "

 

edd says bravo!!

Link to comment

What Ish-N-Isha and Martmann describe is one of the primary reasons for the adoption of the 528 foot guideline. When you're tripping over other caches to find the one you're looking for, that's too close. I know of an instance where someone MOVED the last stage of a multicache out of its hiding spot, in order to place their own cache in that perfect spot.

 

Another reason is cache density control. If hider A selects a nice corner of the park to introduce folks to, you rather step on his toes by hiding another cache 300 feet away. There were enough complaints about this behavior that the 528 foot guideline was added. It could have been 400 feet or half a mile, but 528 was what was chosen. It's written right in the requirements/guidelines that we all say we've read when we submit a new cache.

 

When the game started, there were very few rules. Take something, leave something and sign the logbook. All of the other requirements and guidelines have been added incrementally over time, in response to complaints. Groundspeak doesn't sit around dreaming up new rules, but to read the forums without the benefit of history, one could reach the conclusion that this is what is done.

Link to comment
All I know is that in my area right now, I can only go geocaching based on the places and rules geocaching.com tells me I have to follow (and because of this the caches in my area are limited). I am trying, I'm trying real hard to follow along, but it's hard when you only have one option.

 

If you were trying real hard to follow along, you would have followed the guidelines. It seems you thought you were special enough that you could slide by and when called on it, you posted a whine here looking for general peer approval instead of working out the issues with the admin.

 

If you knew the guidelines, you would have set up your stages so they were 1/10th of a mile apart from anything else nearby. That takes research on your part which you did, and knowingly placed to close.

 

So what if you made special laminated cards? You set yourself up to failure if you failed to follow the guidelines and knowingly set up a cache that close to another cache. That ain't politics, and that ain't admin retardence... that's just plain dumb decision process on your part.

 

Adjust. Adapt. Overcome. Be part of the solution and not part of the problem. The only self-righteousness that I see here is the one stubborn enough not to admit they made a mistake in thinking they were the exception to the guidelines.

Edited by TotemLake
Link to comment
All I know is that in my area right now, I can only go geocaching based on the places and rules geocaching.com tells me I have to follow (and because of this the caches in my area are limited). I am trying, I'm trying real hard to follow along, but it's hard when you only have one option.

 

If you were trying real hard to follow along, you would have followed the guidelines. It seems you thought you were special enough that you could slide by and when called on it, you posted a whine here looking for general peer approval instead of working out the issues with the admin.

 

If you knew the guidelines, you would have set up your stages so they were 1/10th of a mile apart from anything else nearby. That takes research on your part which you did, and knowingly placed to close.

 

So what if you made special laminated cards? You set yourself up to failure if you failed to follow the guidelines and knowingly set up a cache that close to another cache. That ain't politics, and that ain't admin retardence... that's just plain dumb decision process on your part.

 

Adjust. Adapt. Overcome. Be part of the solution and not part of the problem. The only self-righteousness that I see here is the one stubborn enough not to admit they made a mistake in thinking they were the exception to the guidelines.

How many times do I have to say that MY gps said I was fine? Maybe if people werent so quick to tell me how wrong I am, I wouldn't have reason to say the things I say, but you just give me more reason.

 

For the last time. I believe this would have been one of the hardest caches in my area. Fun for a lot of people. And there is a reason I placed the last cache where I did.

 

Conform, conform, conform. Are people really so anal that you take this game so seriously?

 

And finally, if anyone would bother to go to my cache, and the one I am 'to close to', I would bet $100 that nobody would get mixed up between the two. Unless of course you are superman.

 

If I was an approver, I would personally visit each cache.

 

Anyway... If you live in the midwest, the game is about to see some changes.

Link to comment

if you were an approver and went to every site it would be a desaster trying to get any cache approvedd bacause you would have no time to approve them you would be in the woods all day...and you going to buy all that gas on your own????approvers are volunteering you know????this thread is going nowhere but down i see.so i will not post another in fear of losing my 0% warning meter over this guy!!!!peace out

Link to comment
Conform, conform, conform. Are people really so anal that you take this game so seriously?

 

Anal? No. But if you're special enough for the exception, so is everybody else. Come on... think it through. There are ways to adapt and overcome the problem. You just need to be flexible and not be anal in your own stance. Posting the same old tired whine (my cache didn't get approved because...) most seasoned folks have seen here isn't the way to do it. As you can easily see here, you didn't get a whole lot of sympathy.

 

How many times did you take a reading for each of your placements? If you're going to take a chance to place that close to another cache, several readings over several days would have been adviseable and err on the side of distance rather than closeness. I'm suspecting you took one or two readings and decided boom that's it. If you are as clever as you think you are, you can adjust.

 

It isn't about conformance. It is about density. Your stance indicates you are too new to the sport to understand that and maybe your suggestion of removing your cache isn't such a bad idea until you have a few more finds under your belt to get a better idea of why the guidelines are the way they are.

Link to comment

I am sick of people who have a lot of finds acting high and mighty. Perhaps I geocached in the past without an account... I don't care if you have 1000 finds or 10, neither make your ***** get bigger. It doesnt take a genious to hide something in the woods.

 

And to answer the other question, it would not be a pain to go out and check caches in my area. As there are not new ones popping up every day, or week for that matter.

 

I can see that I am not going to get anywhere where with most of the people here. Like I said, I will change the game myself. You will know when it happens. Nothing wrong with a little competition right?

Edited by subigo
Link to comment
It doesnt take a genious to hide something in the woods.

I think we've established that.

And to answer the other question, it would not be a pain to go out and check caches in my area. As there are not new ones popping up every day, or week for that matter.

There have been about 60 caches placed in Missouri over the past 30 days. The vast majority of them have been approved. Yours wasn't. Missouri is a big state. The volunteer reviewer for your state would *love* to visit every cache before it's approved. Tack on 30 days to the review time and we'll be happy to accommodate your idea.

I can see if I am not going to get anywhere where most of the people here. Like I said, I will change the game myself. You will know when it happens. Nothing wrong with a little competition right?

Nope. Not at all. Are you *sure* you copied down those other URL's correctly?

Link to comment
All I know is that in my area right now, I can only go geocaching based on the places and rules geocaching.com tells me I have to follow (and because of this the caches in my area are limited). I am trying, I'm trying real hard to follow along, but it's hard when you only have one option.

...and only 2 finds.

 

Get some more under your belt, understand the mechanics of it all and why the rules are there. I'm sure your multi is good, but maybe a bit more experience and it could be better! "It's not about the numbers", but the numbers do indicate experience that is beneficial for placing good caches, not only along the rules that are set, but also good caches people will want to visit.

 

Good luck with your multi. :rolleyes:

Link to comment

A few notes on abuse that hasn't been reaped upon you yet.

 

1) When creating my multi, I searched for and found freeware to verify the distance between my cache and every other cache within a mile, as well as checking routes, bearings, and clues to make sure everything looked sane and to give and overhead view of all the local waypoints.

 

2) Had it been rejected, it would have been rejected with suggestions or lists of known problems, much like yours. I then would have had the ability to explain why, modify it or scrap it.

 

3) As it turns out, mother nature has decided to play approver by opening up a new sinkhole in the vicinity. This wasn't there when I placed it and none of the logs mention it, but I came across it on a "replace the pencil" maintainence run. So I will probably be moving the last stage of my cache, which means I also have to find the NEW multi (which is apparently a real leg breaker) in the area, plug in all the co-ordinates, and do all those things you seem so unwilling to do.

 

4) As for laminated co-ordinates, I've made my own to replace the soaked co-ordinates in someone else's cache. So that's no worse an expense and a second visit to an already logged cache. If you're not willing to do that, how willing are you to maintain your own cache?

 

I think all the rest of what I want to say has been said before without you listening. Maybe some of the new stuff will sink in.

Link to comment
I am sick of people who have a lot of finds acting high and mighty. Perhaps I geocached in the past without an account... I don't care if you have 1000 finds or 10, neither make your ***** get bigger. It doesnt take a genious to hide something in the woods.

 

And to answer the other question, it would not be a pain to go out and check caches in my area. As there are not new ones popping up every day, or week for that matter.

 

I can see that I am not going to get anywhere where with most of the people here. Like I said, I will change the game myself. You will know when it happens. Nothing wrong with a little competition right?

It amazes me that you come to a new (for you) sport/game/hobby before you have any accumulation of experience (that's not a put-down, just fact), virtually everybody tells you the same thing, and then you make a post like this.

 

In the future when you are new to something, you might try to get comfortable with it before you start telling everybody else (with experience) that they are wrong and you are right, even when you admit you cache is not within the guidelines that thousands of people have NO PROBLEM working with.

 

Particularly when your reasons for letting your cache bend the guidelines are that you put a lot of effort and money into it (try adding more planning to that list), and that you think your cache is better than the cache that was already there (who's self righteous?).

 

I hope that in time, you can reflect on this little incident and realize how incredibly silly your actions/posts are. If you do, I bet the nice people (that you like to call "self righteous" and "high and mighty") here would treat you just fine. Heck, you might end up learning something, or at least, have some fun, that's kind of what Geocaching is for, right?

 

There is nothing wrong with competition, and I hope you are successful in your endeavor, then I hope you have to deal with people that have the same attitude that you have demonstrated in this thread.

 

Good luck.

Link to comment
<<SNIP>>

 

There are a lot of self-righteous people on geocaching.com

<<SNIP>>

You've certainly become one of them.

 

There are reasons for the guidelines. All these things were worked out long before you created this account on GC.com.

 

The way you are posting now is in a way that shows you are nothing more than an imature newbie that thinks he knows how to make this game better. We have enough of them here already.

 

Read the posts in this thread and try and learn how to work within the system. After you see how the system works, if you still have problems then post intelligent suggestions in a polite way.

 

Posting rants about how unfair you are being treated is the quickest way to lose respect. Everyone is entiltled to an opinion. But when that opinion is un-educated it's not worth the time it took to read it.

Link to comment

Thanks for all the comments.

 

When I get a chance, I will get a better reply together. Perhaps this gent is correct. A personal visit may be in order to properly determine that his cache can be placed in a totally different area of the park 367 feet from the other established cache. Looking at my schedule, i have a free weekend in feburuary, I will see if i can move my schedule around a bit and come on down perhaps by mid month. Thanks for the suggestion on how to make geocaching a better game. I am always looking for ways to make things better.

 

How about permission to place a cache in that park, all taken care of? I will need to know that when I come down to take a look at your cache placement. Perhaps we can go out to the cache site with the park manager.

 

Since you will be changing the rules and makeing your own game, will you be removing your cache or should i continue to look at it?

 

 

As always, thanks for playing at geocaching.com,

 

glenn

oh, no.. i didnt look at mapquest.

Edited by *gln
Link to comment

That's what we love about the 'Nearest Waypoints' on the Etrex. Fire it up and check out the neighbourhood when you find that ideal cache spot. :rolleyes:

 

....well, for publically viewable positions rather than 'approver only' multi-cache coords but it's a start.

Edited by The Cuthberts
Link to comment

Post your multi on Navicache, then when any good geocacher checks Buxley's for all the caches in their area, yours will show up on the map and they can find yours along with any others in the area. I alway check Buxley's along with geocache.com and Navicache.com to make sure I don't miss anything in the area I am going to. I believe most do this also.

Link to comment

A while back, I submitted a rather lame idea for a virt to *gln, the approver in your "rant". Of course, he turned it down initially, but through several emails back and forth, we came up with a lot of different ideas for it. He never once told me absolutely no. In the end, I decided that I'd put it on the back burner till I could come up with a better way to show folks the virt that I was looking at. It was all very positive and constructive. Sure, I was a tad disappointed at first, but I was really impressed at the way *gln was willing to work with me, and even had some very good suggestions on how to make it work. I don't think you've been fair to *gln, gc.com, the forum members, or yourself by coming in here and handling the situation the way you did.

 

 

BTW, smurf-boy, I would approve everything except yours! :rolleyes::lol:

Link to comment
Post your multi on Navicache, then when any good geocacher checks Buxley's for all the caches in their area, yours will show up on the map and they can find yours along with any others in the area. I alway check Buxley's along with geocache.com and Navicache.com to make sure I don't miss anything in the area I am going to. I believe most do this also.

I don't......navitrash's closest cache to me is over 250 miles, last time I looked.

Link to comment
Post your multi on Navicache, then when any good geocacher checks Buxley's for all the caches in their area, yours will show up on the map and they can find yours along with any others in the area. I alway check Buxley's along with geocache.com and Navicache.com to make sure I don't miss anything in the area I am going to. I believe most do this also.

I don't......navitrash's closest cache to me is over 250 miles, last time I looked.

I think the closest to me is 95 miles away.

Link to comment

How many times do I have to say that MY gps said I was fine?

 

My gps told me I was about 465-515 feet from the other cache.

 

I thought the guideline was 528 feet. Can you tell my how you say your GPS said you were fine but also that you were only 465-515 feet away? Even taking the best case you quoted you are still 13 feet short.

Link to comment
I am sick of people who have a lot of finds acting high and mighty. Perhaps I geocached in the past without an account... I don't care if you have 1000 finds or 10, neither make your ***** get bigger. It doesnt take a genious to hide something in the woods.

 

And to answer the other question, it would not be a pain to go out and check caches in my area. As there are not new ones popping up every day, or week for that matter.

 

I can see that I am not going to get anywhere where with most of the people here. Like I said, I will change the game myself. You will know when it happens. Nothing wrong with a little competition right?

o0O(Something about don't go away mad comes to mind.)

Link to comment

The way you are posting now is in a way that shows you are nothing more than an imature newbie that thinks he knows how to make this game better. We have enough of them here already.

 

Don't bash them all based on one person. The new people with ideas are the future of the game. You are going to make them not want to post and share their ideas with us or ask questions. It's not fair to use newbie in a negative way as we are all newbies at one time.

 

If you want to bash Subigo then say Subigo (I am not bashing you Subigo just making a point) don't just say newbie.

Link to comment

Maybe it's me and the way I place caches, but I usually look to see if there are any caches nearby where I would want to put a cache. Also, if it were me, just for a caching etiquete point of view, I would e-mail the person with the other cache and ask them if they would mind if I put a cach thatclose to theirs. I know it's not mandetory to do so, but I would do it anyway.

Link to comment

subigo,

 

Please calm down. You should have waited patiently for a reply from the approver before you began this topic. The first three replys to this thread were all that needed to be said. It went to H-E-double hockey sticks after that.

 

I will go out on a limb and risk ending up with foot in mouth because I don't know the whole story but I think that the approver should approve your cache as is and probably will if you are patient with him and address his concerns. 367 feet or whatever is certainly far enough away from another cache that it should not be found by accident and I think that he can and will cut you some slack here since it is the final stage of a multi. If you will explain that you found a good hiding spot and that it would be a lot or work for you to redo your multi, I should think that he will take that into account and let it stand. I hope so, anyway. I, for one, appreciate that somebody put more than a little extra time, money, and effort into hiding a cache and the people who hunt it will appreciate that also. Work with your approver and refrain from calling him or the guidelines retarted and things will go a lot smoother.

Link to comment
I am sick of people who have a lot of finds acting high and mighty. Perhaps I geocached in the past without an account... I don't care if you have 1000 finds or 10, neither make your ***** get bigger. It doesnt take a genious to hide something in the woods.

Actually after 1000 finds, my ***** did get bigger.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...