Nail A Tree?

1.1k · January 7, 2004

I am thinking about doing a little multi / mystery cache nearby. I would like one of the stages to be nothing but a metal tag, with coords engraved on it, attached to something. The easiest way to do this is with a nail, in a tree. IS this wrong? Could I seriously damage a tree by doing this? Is it considered bad form? Could or would it upset the land manager?

January 7, 2004

It could possibly hurt the tree, but if its a large tree I don't think you have much to worry about. The only living part of a tree is just under the bark and the leaves of corse. A weed wacker would do more damage than a nail. Thats my opinion.

The only thing you'd have to worry about is the tree getting knocked down or cut down. Thats happened to some caches around here. the tree was just cut down that had a cache in it. A recent storm knocked over a tree that was hidding my cache it was still hidden, but it damaged the ammo can. It is now leaking a little, I need to go do some maintance.

January 7, 2004

Could I seriously damage a tree by doing this?

Speaking as a forrester. NO.

IS this wrong?

Is it considered bad form?

To some people I'm certain it will be considered wrong.

Could or would it upset the land manager?

It might, it would be wise to get permission first.

Just a thought, hardly anyone could complain if it were nailed to a dead tree.

January 7, 2004

I'm not an arborist or a forester, but it probably wouldn't hurt the tree. I've nailed a couple birdhouses on trees and it doesn't seem to hurt the trees. Eventually the tree will grow around the nail and tag. Nailing trail markers to trees or "blazing" trail markers on trees is a common practice in the western states.

1.1k · January 7, 2004

I've nailed a couple birdhouses on trees and it doesn't seem to hurt the trees.

You mean you couldn't actually hear them scream? :rolleyes:

January 7, 2004

I've nailed a couple birdhouses on trees and it doesn't seem to hurt the trees.

You mean you couldn't actually hear them scream?

No, but the moaning was nice. :rolleyes:

January 7, 2004

I am thinking about doing a little multi / mystery cache nearby. I would like one of the stages to be nothing but a metal tag, with coords engraved on it, attached to something. The easiest way to do this is with a nail, in a tree. IS this wrong? Could I seriously damage a tree by doing this? Is it considered bad form? Could or would it upset the land manager?

Since you said tree huggers I figured I would mention this. Eco Terrorists put nails into tree. This way when the tree is logged, the nail would either destroy the chainsaw or seriously injury/mame/kill the lumberjack. Not to mention what would happen when this tree goes to the mill. If you are going to do this, put the nail into a tree that isn't desireable to log.

January 7, 2004

I am NOT a tree hugger. But rather than get nasty whining remarks from them i would not nail the tree but maybe attach the tag to a long piece of "rebar" or metal pole and drive the bugger into the ground. it will not hurt the enviroment and the tree huggers would be proud.

January 7, 2004

I don't think I would put a nail in the tree. If it happend to be found by a geomuggle, it would give them just that more ammo against us. I think we could almost incorporate into this thread, "What can be used besides nails".

4.8k · January 7, 2004

Instead of a nail, you could use wire, fishing line, or a plastic tie and tie the tag around a branch. I did a multi where that was done and it seemed to work well. Then, you won't have as much worry about offending anyone.

January 7, 2004

My 2 cents:

No, it won't hurt the tree. But unless it's your tree (like in your yard or on your ranch) I wouldn't do it. I don't think it's in step with the low-imapct nature of Geocaching. For instance we aren't allowed to place caches in fragile ecosystems (caves) or near archaeological sites. I consider nails in trees to be covered under the same philosophy.

Public agencies (such as local parks, B.L.M., etc.) may have regulations against attaching things to living trees. When placing a challenge course at the university's outdoor center we weren't allowed to use living trees - we had to sink power poles out in the middle of the woods.

Just generally speaking I would consider it bad practice and a poor example.

But like I said, if it's your tree, go for it. It really won't hurt the tree.

Best Wishes,

Bob

1.1k · January 7, 2004

Thank you all for your comments. While reading your posts I have formulated a tree friendly and unique solution. I'd share but I am not going to give anything away. :rolleyes: I will leave this thread open. It may serve usefull for others. Thanks again!

3.1k · January 7, 2004

* sharpens Chainsaw*

Keep any said nails very low near the ground so some woodcutter doesn't get hurt down the road. Those tree huggers love to "spike" trees with every intention of hurting loggers. So if a tree hugger approves of spiking how could they justify finding fault with a nail.

Just keep it low and if you do I'm certain this isn't an approved GC.com procedure.

Edited January 7, 2004 by Lazyboy & Mitey Mite

38.2k · January 7, 2004

I build and maintain trails. We've been using tag blazes nailed to trees for years. I also know the NY state DEC uses blazes nailed to trees for many of their trails, so I guess the practice doesn't hurt the tree. That being said, there is always someone who will complain (I've been berated by hikers who passed by while I was nailing blazes, or signs to a tree), so why don't you try wiring it on to a branch.

2.3k · January 7, 2004

Its okay if you apologize to the tree first and give it a nice hug! :rolleyes:

4.8k · January 7, 2004

Its okay if you apologize to the tree first and give it a nice hug!

The last time I hugged a tree, it seemed offended that I was also climbing it. So it scratched me and threw me to the ground! :rolleyes:

January 7, 2004

Its okay if you apologize to the tree first and give it a nice hug!

The last time I hugged a tree it got mad and started throwing apples at me. Oh wait, that was Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. Nevermind :rolleyes:

2.1k · January 7, 2004

Its okay if you apologize to the tree first and give it a nice hug!

The last time I hugged a tree, it seemed offended that I was also climbing it. So it scratched me and threw me to the ground!

umm....carleen...ummm...someone is going reverse those words around and make some offers to you...and say they would never throw you down and scratch you...lol

2k · January 7, 2004

I'm not to thrilled about the idea of using fishin line/zip ties/ wire. This would, in the long run, do more damage than a nail. The soft green tape used to train shrubberies, no wait shrubs, would be a better choice. It is intended for this application and will expand with tree growth thus preventing the bark from being cut.

I also wouldn't want to "find" a piece of re-bar sticking out of the ground. I find enough sharp point natural things in the woods. :rolleyes:

January 7, 2004

i'm not sure about other places, but PA has regulations against nailing into live trees in State Game lands, state forests and parks. I doubt whether one would advance the cause for cache approval if they found coords nailed to a tree around here. Just something to consider. Maybe heavy plastic wire ties placed high enough to prevent just anybody from pulling them off would work.

January 7, 2004

With regard to wrapping a wire, plastic, string, thong, or anything around a tree, its important to remember that as trees grow, they increase their diameter. Eventually, whatever you wrap around a tree could end up with the tree growing around it and causing weakness in the trunk or branch at that point. You see this with young landscape trees that are staked and guy-wired. After a few years someone forgets to remove the guy wires from around the tree and the wire becomes part of the tree.

2.3k · January 7, 2004

Its okay if you apologize to the tree first and give it a nice hug!

The last time I hugged a tree, it seemed offended that I was also climbing it. So it scratched me and threw me to the ground!

umm....carleen...ummm...someone is going reverse those words around and make some offers to you...and say they would never throw you down and scratch you...lol

Actually I was thinking the opposite....

I think people will tell her that they want to throw her down and scratch her and... um... well that's enough for now... :rolleyes:

January 7, 2004

I am not a tree-hugger (probably the polar opposite), but I always try to avoid putting nails in trees on public lands. When camping, it sometimes looks like the easiest way to set an overhead tarp, or to make a cup-hook, but for some reason (perhaps irrational) it just seems wrong to me. I think my feelings have something to do with having respect for our parks. Graffiti on a bus-stop bench causes no harm to the bench, but I still find it disrespectful to public property. It would not seem unreasonable to me for a land manager to complain if geocachers were putting nails in trees.

The sanctioned trail markers mentioned by BrianSnat, seem to me to be an easy and necessary way to mark trails, and are definately not a sign of disrespect for the forest.

4k · January 7, 2004

Copper or brass nails will both kill a tree. But where do you find copper or brass nails? Ok, I've seen brass, but they're pretty tiny. I have 80 acres of timber, most of which are "loggable" trees, mostly walnut, oak, hackberry, and hard maple. Although we don't allow hunting there, while logging a few trees once, we found railroad spikes driven into them for deer stands and steps. The smaller nails we've found didn't do the chainsaws any good, but they didn't bother the band-saw type sawmill we use. Railroad spikes, on the other hand, will destroy band saws, as well as the big round blades in sawmills, and have the capability of seriously injuring or killing the operator. If they were my trees, I'd prefer not to have any nails driven into them, as I don't like replacing or sharpening chainsaw blades.

If it's a young tree, and you tie anything around the branches (i.e., zip ties, fishing line, wires, etc.) you could seriously damage the branch, however, many trees will simply "swallow" the wire by growing bark, and eventually wood, around it.

Edited January 7, 2004 by Sparky-Watts

1.1k · January 7, 2004

We do a lot of camping in the Red River Gorge area of Daniel Boone NF in Kentucky. A GREAT park with some awesome caches that I highly recommend spending time in. One of the few places close to us where you can still do primitive camping. Really something special to hike a few miles, set up camp and go days without out seeing another person. I bring this up because in areas of the forest that are easily accessed by less serious campers there are a ton of trees that have been seriously damaged by thoughtless people. Which brings up a pet peeve of mine. It is practically useless to cut down a live tree for immediate use as firewood. All you achieve is the premature death of a young tree. Stupid novice campers. I do not consider myself a treehugger but this is a really heartbreaking thing to see. Hey Einstien, green wood doesn't burn well, STOP IT! :rolleyes:

January 7, 2004

Eco Terrorists put nails into tree. This way when the tree is logged, the nail would either destroy the chainsaw or seriously injury/mame/kill the lumberjack. Not to mention what would happen when this tree goes to the mill

A small roofing nail or drywall nail will be virtually unnoticed through the massive sawmill blade. Environmantal eco terrorists use large spikes. Having worked as a lumberjack, I would rather see it be a little more than head high, not low to the ground , since we generally cut about 1 fot off the ground.

4k · January 7, 2004

. Which brings up a pet peeve of mine. It is practically useless to cut down a live tree for immediate use as firewood. All you achieve is the premature death of a young tree. Stupid novice campers. I do not consider myself a treehugger but this is a really heartbreaking thing to see. Hey Einstien, green wood doesn't burn well, STOP IT!

Dang right! I can't even count the number of times I've seen campers cutting a live tree for firewood, then using 20 gallons of gas to get it burning........ :rolleyes:

5.3k · January 7, 2004

A small roofing nail or drywall nail will be virtually unnoticed through the massive sawmill blade. Environmantal eco terrorists use large spikes.

Very true...and most large sawmills now use metal dectectors to safeguard their equipment from those large spikes.

January 7, 2004

Is it wrong to stick a nail in a tree?Of course it is!!! I'm telling you right now that trees can feel stuff like that,just ask Dorithy about picking apples off of a tree when she was on her way to Oz.When I pull vegtables off of my plants in my garden,they scream.One more thing you might want to keep in mind,you go sticking nails into and hurting trees,the next thing you know, Treebeard and the Ents are in a blind rage and it's the battle of Isengard all over again!!!

1.1k · January 7, 2004

Is it wrong to stick a nail in a tree?Of course it is!!! I'm telling you right now that trees can feel stuff like that,just ask Dorithy about picking apples off of a tree when she was on her way to Oz.When I pull vegtables off of my plants in my garden,they scream.One more thing you might want to keep in mind,you go sticking nails into and hurting trees,the next thing you know, Treebeard and the Ents are in a blind rage and it's the battle of Isengard all over again!!!

Yea, uh those mushrooms you been picking probably aren't safe for consumption. Try the produce section at your local grocer. :rolleyes:

2k · January 7, 2004

. Which brings up a pet peeve of mine. It is practically useless to cut down a live tree for immediate use as firewood. All you achieve is the premature death of a young tree. Stupid novice campers. I do not consider myself a treehugger but this is a really heartbreaking thing to see. Hey Einstien, green wood doesn't burn well, STOP IT!

Dang right! I can't even count the number of times I've seen campers cutting a live tree for firewood, then using 20 gallons of gas to get it burning........

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping. Around here you aren't even allowed to collect fallen firewood in many areas. Why? In high usage areas there wasen't enough wood going back into the soil to keep it alive.

Besides serveral years of drought mean fires are usualy not allowed.

I got my family into stargazing, a campfire just interferes with the show then.

4k · January 7, 2004

. Which brings up a pet peeve of mine. It is practically useless to cut down a live tree for immediate use as firewood. All you achieve is the premature death of a young tree. Stupid novice campers. I do not consider myself a treehugger but this is a really heartbreaking thing to see. Hey Einstien, green wood doesn't burn well, STOP IT!

Dang right! I can't even count the number of times I've seen campers cutting a live tree for firewood, then using 20 gallons of gas to get it burning........

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping. Around here you aren't even allowed to collect fallen firewood in many areas. Why? In high usage areas there wasen't enough wood going back into the soil to keep it alive.

Besides serveral years of drought mean fires are usualy not allowed.

I got my family into stargazing, a campfire just interferes with the show then.

Good point. When my family gets together for camping on the farm, a lot of the time the temp is right around freezing, though, and a nice fire counteracts that. One time my wife and I camped down there in single digit weather. But, I'm getting a bit off topic here. Sorry.

January 7, 2004

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping.

I guess because you don't cook on a campfire, noone should!

1.1k · January 7, 2004

. Which brings up a pet peeve of mine. It is practically useless to cut down a live tree for immediate use as firewood. All you achieve is the premature death of a young tree. Stupid novice campers. I do not consider myself a treehugger but this is a really heartbreaking thing to see. Hey Einstien, green wood doesn't burn well, STOP IT!

Dang right! I can't even count the number of times I've seen campers cutting a live tree for firewood, then using 20 gallons of gas to get it burning........

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping. Around here you aren't even allowed to collect fallen firewood in many areas. Why? In high usage areas there wasen't enough wood going back into the soil to keep it alive.

Besides serveral years of drought mean fires are usualy not allowed.

I got my family into stargazing, a campfire just interferes with the show then.

Good point. When my family gets together for camping on the farm, a lot of the time the temp is right around freezing, though, and a nice fire counteracts that. One time my wife and I camped down there in single digit weather. But, I'm getting a bit off topic here. Sorry.

Any possibility that burning firewood with a nail in it could be dangerous?

(Back on topic)

January 7, 2004

I've nailed a couple birdhouses on trees and it doesn't seem to hurt the trees.

You mean you couldn't actually hear them scream?

:rolleyes:

Question: If trees screamed, would you still cut them down?

Answer: Yes, if they were screaming for no apparent reason.

:rolleyes:

2.1k · January 7, 2004

how about an elastic cord similar to what those car tree deoderizers have on them. They will expand.....

4k · January 7, 2004

. Which brings up a pet peeve of mine. It is practically useless to cut down a live tree for immediate use as firewood. All you achieve is the premature death of a young tree. Stupid novice campers. I do not consider myself a treehugger but this is a really heartbreaking thing to see. Hey Einstien, green wood doesn't burn well, STOP IT!

Dang right! I can't even count the number of times I've seen campers cutting a live tree for firewood, then using 20 gallons of gas to get it burning........

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping. Around here you aren't even allowed to collect fallen firewood in many areas. Why? In high usage areas there wasen't enough wood going back into the soil to keep it alive.

Besides serveral years of drought mean fires are usualy not allowed.

I got my family into stargazing, a campfire just interferes with the show then.

Good point. When my family gets together for camping on the farm, a lot of the time the temp is right around freezing, though, and a nice fire counteracts that. One time my wife and I camped down there in single digit weather. But, I'm getting a bit off topic here. Sorry.

Any possibility that burning firewood with a nail in it could be dangerous?

(Back on topic)

Well, I don't know about nails, but I do know about flint. My land is thick with indian arrowheads, and we have actually burned wood there that apparently had arrowheads imbedded in it. Lemme tell ya, those things go off with a BANG! We've also cut through arrowheads with the chainsaw, too, and that doesn't do the blade any good either. So, don't use flint to tag your trees, JS.

1.4k · January 7, 2004

If you cut the tree down first then the nail wouldn't harm the tree at all. :rolleyes: I saw a tree that "ingested" (grew around) a piece of angle iron that was used originally to keep it straight. If it can assimilate that I think a nail is fine.

1.1k · January 7, 2004

Well, I don't know about nails, but I do know about flint. My land is thick with indian arrowheads, and we have actually burned wood there that apparently had arrowheads imbedded in it. Lemme tell ya, those things go off with a BANG! We've also cut through arrowheads with the chainsaw, too, and that doesn't do the blade any good either. So, don't use flint to tag your trees, JS.

Well this is Cincinnati. Maybe I could use Larry Flint.

January 7, 2004

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping.

Yeah that makes sense. And further, other than convention, there isn't really much reason to go camping at all. I already own a nice warm home. What possible reason could I have to spend time with my family living in a tent??

1.1k · January 7, 2004

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping.

Yeah that makes sense. And further, other than convention, there isn't really much reason to go camping at all. I already own a nice warm home. What possible reason could I have to spend time with my family living in a tent??

Uh. yea. :rolleyes:

2.3k · January 7, 2004

For one of my multis, I attached a small metal tag (2" brass washer, stamped with numbers) to a branch of a small tree with a piece of small diameter steel cable. I completed the loop with a small aluminum ferrule that is easily crimped with pliers. The loop is big enough to last for many years with the growth of the tree (branch expanding). Cable and ferrules cheap at home depot.

4k · January 7, 2004

Well, I don't know about nails, but I do know about flint. My land is thick with indian arrowheads, and we have actually burned wood there that apparently had arrowheads imbedded in it. Lemme tell ya, those things go off with a BANG! We've also cut through arrowheads with the chainsaw, too, and that doesn't do the blade any good either. So, don't use flint to tag your trees, JS.

Well this is Cincinnati. Maybe I could use Larry Flint.

Two questions: Could you hammer him into a tree? Would he burn (other than in H*ll)?

January 7, 2004

oops

Edited January 7, 2004 by CTgeocacher

January 7, 2004

Perhaps.....a hidden conventional "info micro" will do in place of nailing anything to a tree? I can hear it now, must stop those geocachers, bad enough they tramp all over the vegetation but now, they're nailing up our forests!! :rolleyes:

1.1k · January 7, 2004

Well, I don't know about nails, but I do know about flint. My land is thick with indian arrowheads, and we have actually burned wood there that apparently had arrowheads imbedded in it. Lemme tell ya, those things go off with a BANG! We've also cut through arrowheads with the chainsaw, too, and that doesn't do the blade any good either. So, don't use flint to tag your trees, JS.

Well this is Cincinnati. Maybe I could use Larry Flint.

Two questions: Could you hammer him into a tree? Would he burn (other than in H*ll)?

I have such a great reply, but I can't post it here. It would be OT AND probably really offensive. :rolleyes:

How funny would it be to hang a tree air freshener on a tree? I may actually use that.

Edited January 7, 2004 by Johnnie Stalkers

2.1k · January 7, 2004

another thought I just had was that my makes stretchy bbead bracelets and uses a clear stretch cord...that could be used and will expand as well. You can buy it WalMart...

3.8k · January 7, 2004

A single nail in a tree, well away from conventional camping areas and trails, will probably be unoticed by those not actually directed to it from behind a GPSr. But better, would be no nail at all.

Having camped more than most, I've found the most annoying things campers leave behind (other than broken glass), are nails, wire, and string attached to trees. Talk about litter. Talk about impacting an area.

If you must nail a tree, remove it before you leave. Otherwise it's just litter.

Other than convention there isn't really much reason to have a fire when camping. Around here you aren't even allowed to collect fallen firewood in many areas. Why? In high usage areas there wasen't enough wood going back into the soil to keep it alive.

I've camped in many places where fires were prohibited for one reason or another, but if I can have a fire, I will. I love to cook on a fire. I love, even more, the sensual aspects of fires; the sounds and smells of a fire, the feel of a fire and especially watching a fire are synonymous with camping.

Campfires stir my primeval pot.

And you only have to move a few feet away to gaze at the stars. :rolleyes:

1.4k · January 7, 2004

Perhaps.....a hidden conventional "info micro" will do in place of nailing anything to a tree? Perhaps?

I think the tree is getting nailed. We are just working on the fine details now. We have eliminated railroad spikes and brass & copper nails (however Sparky if you ever need any of those I can forge em for you, however the copper would be to soft to use in anything even remotely hard). I think a good 16p (non galvanized)would be a nice choice. OOOHHHHH or a nice self tapping wood screw.

1.1k · January 7, 2004

I love to cook on a fire. I love, even more, the sensual aspects of fires; the sounds and smells of a fire, the feel of a fire and especially watching a fire...Campfires stir my primeval pot.....

A little Pyro? :rolleyes:

Nail A Tree?

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