Ideas & Suggestions - Ontario Geogachers Unite

[+Algonquin Bound]

Please post ideas and suggestions/opinions, so that Blue Quasar may start working on some kind of geocaching group for Ontario.

[+Algonquin Bound]

I must say I tend to agree with the idea of "letting sleeping dogs lie". Let's get ourselves established and deal with whomever we NEED to deal with, before ever tackling those who have yet to discover that they should "develop a policy".

[+logger&trail]

I have to agree that we should not try to take on to many tasks all at once, we should deal with what is at hand. Once things are established and we have set up our information and education program other tasks can be tackled.

 

Congratulations Blue Quasar, and good luck on the terrain 5 path which lies ahead. Any help I may offer is yours for the asking..

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

[+Halden]

What I would like to see materialize first is a site indicating the goals and future plans as well as the imediate plans of the organization. It would be somewhere we could point people to get information about the soon to be formed Organization.

 

I like the SOGA logo alot and would like to see it reworked to the Name of the new group.

 

I would again like to extend my hand in saying welcome BQ and if I can be of any assistance let me know.

[+The Blue Quasar]

Thanks all for all of the kind words and support. I will be posting my initial draft on Wednesday night in this group. Please post any ideas you have so I can see where people are at.

 

I wish that GO was a realistic option, but sadly it isn't. Like many have said GO is Government of Ontario. We need something unique but similar in nature.

 

While I do think that Geocaching Ontario is good too, the name would end up becoming GO once again.

 

Will say here though that I will be looking for people to acts as representatives for each regional municipality in Ontario. So if you would like to help shape things then send me an email.

 

I will detail the ideas I have for responsibilities on Wednesday too.

 

Perhaps if we consider this thread as our "Chalkboard" we can work things out without committing them to stone.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+TheGertridgeExplorers]

Maybe Association of Ontario Geocachers would work - AGO ?Just a thought. Also, check out th BC Geocachers thread & webpage for content ideas. They have done a nice job there.

 

Donna G

[lessenergy]

Congrats on starting a local group. Best of luck to all of you.

 

I checked out the BC site and it is really amazing. Incredibly well done.

 

What is pretty obvious from the BC site is that there is a great potential for revenue generation by way of advertising and memberships. That is also great.

 

If I may make a suggestion about the Ontario group. When you formalize this and create the site, please make sure that any funds generated are retained by the organization. I think the worst thing that could happen would be for the organization to morph into a private enterprise with the profits going to an individual or small group.

 

At some point, you'll want to incorporate (if for no other reason than to protect the leadershp from lawsuits) so make sure your articles of incorporation clearly state how revenues are to be used.

 

If it has not yet occured to you, it may in the future - If you really worked at it, you could probably apply and get charity status - all you really have to do is demonstrate public goals for your organization that would not be considered lobbying. (Lobbying is one thing that the approvers really frown on.) Personally, while you could probably get charitable status with some good creative writting on the application, I would ask that you not do this. It would be unethical, in my view, to access public funds for your endeavor.

 

It is not likely in your thought process to create an alternative to GC.com but, as is obvious from the BC website, the potential for a local listing service is tremendous and it would be great for you to have more control over the direction that the sport takes locally. There is no good reason for Ontario (or Canadian) practitioners of the sport to have their activities dictated by someone in Seattle (?) and an active, revenue generating local organization would be intregal to creating a local alternative.

 

Finally, you may consider creating an umbrella Canadian organization at some point with each province as a mostly independent entity - much like federal and provincial political parties are so that any trans-provincial issues can be addressed in a coherent way. As such, you may want to liason with the BC group and any others that pop up to see if you can create some consistent policies/bylaws now while the rules for each group are still malleable.

 

By analogy:

 

You may have read in history books about local railroads that were created with each local owner deciding on his own what gage the rails should be. As the mode of transportation grew, the costs associated with moving cargo and passengers from one rail car to another simply because one company's train could not travel on another company's line were enormous. I believe this is still a problem in Eastern Europe.

 

Don't make the same mistake with the local Ontario organization if you can help it. Do everything you can to ensure that the Ontario organization can be integrated into a national organization at some point in the future. In order to ease this, you may want to ensure that there are common processes, policies and goals with other provincial organizations. Now, while these organizations are forming, is the time to create the commonality that will make the eventual creation of a national organization easier.

 

 

Les.

[+logger&trail]

Hey Les did you get the GPS on your christmas wish list ? If so, I assume you will be joining us at a few geocaching events in the future.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

[+Halden]

We should definitely take a look at the BC cachers site they have just launched. Very slick. I have asked them to post any advice they may have that will be relevant to our endeavour.

[+The Blue Quasar]

Well the first order of business is going to have to be deciding upon a name. Here in random order are many of the names that have been running through my head and the ones that have been on here as well.

 

1)...Geocaching Ontario (we could use GO unofficially, but not as the main name)

 

2)...ORCA - Ontario Recreational Cachers Association

 

3)...COG - Cachers of Ontario Group

 

4)...FOG - Federation of Ontario Geocachers

 

5)...LOG - League of Ontario Geocachers

 

6)...ORG - Ontario Recreational Geocachers

 

7)...OPAC - Ontario Provincial Association of Cachers

 

8)...LOGO - Lovers of Geocaching Ontario

 

9)...AGO - Association of Geocaching Ontario

 

10)... Submit an alternative that you like.

 

So if everyone could vote on what name they think would best represent our group then we can start to get an informative web site up and running. I would like the decision to be made by contributors to this forum on or before midnight January 18th.

 

At that time I will launch a new discussion forum to keep everyone up to date about the progress being made.

 

Wednesday the 7th I will be posting a draft of proposals for our group and be requesting specific help for areas of concentration.

 

As I have posted before, I intend upon having a web site with .loc files for download and working towards implementing a cache rating system that can be used and supported by all.

 

The Blue Quasar

 

As an aside. I have registered with the BC Geocaching Association and the NY Geocaching Organization. This way we can work together for common ground and potentially future discussions.

[Cachengrab]

7)...OPAC - Ontario Provincial Association of Cachers

 

4)...FOG - Federation of Ontario Geocachers Just turn this one around for me. .......... OFG Ontario Federation of Geocachers

 

I myself do not like the use of Recreational in the name.

[+Halden]

Ontario Geocaching Association - OGA

[+The Daniel Boone Gang]

OGA - Ontario Geocachers Association is the most accurate description I think (acronym pronounced "Oh-Ga")

 

As for regional representeation, we're in the Hamilton area and would be happy to help out wherever we can.

 

We should see if we can get that graphic artist who drew the SOGA logo to redraw with the OGA logo - that was an excellent logo I thought.

[+Shawn&Holly]

I also like Ontario Geocachers Association, easy to remember. I will also help out where I can when required and within my abilities. I am just outside of most regions tho.

Edited January 7, 2004 by Car37&Shnde

[Hespeler Fuel Company]

I like OGA myself

[Cachengrab]

Just let me know what you need help with and I will do what I can. South Eastern Ontario (Quinte Area)

 

Had a local Business Assoc. Rep. asking today if there was a way to setup a cache event for youths. Event is okay it is finding GPS'r to use. Do (we, you, someone) know of an orienteering group that might have access to a handful of used ones?

Edited January 7, 2004 by Cachengrab

[+Algonquin Bound]

Add me to the list of supporters for Ontario Geocachers Association, or OGA. This has been my preference all along. We could even have a sub-sect for those who cache with their canine buddies - Ontario Geocachers Association With Dogs, known as Oh GAWD!

[+Couparangus]

Geocaching Outdoors Group Ontario aka GOGO!

[+Olar]

Add me to the list of supporters for Ontario Geocachers Association, or OGA. This has been my preference all along. We could even have a sub-sect for those who cache with their canine buddies - Ontario Geocachers Association With Dogs, known as Oh GAWD!

A-B, obviously you have forgotten Smudge, Nozzletime's best friend. He would be hurt if we didn't at least acknowledge his, and other caching canines, important contribution to the sport. How about creating the "Ontario Association of Caching Dogs", a sub-sect of "OGA" and having full voting privileges.

 

I'm all for "OGA"

 

Cheers, Olar

[+The Blue Quasar]

As promised here is my point-form list of ideas. These will be expanded upon when we get the web site up and running.

 

<pasted from MSWord>

 

Divide Ontario into regions, Regions are as follows

 

:Northern Ontario –2 regions (Nickel Belt/Sudbury, Thunder Bay)

 

:South-Western Ontario – 4 regions (Kitchener/Waterloo, London Middlesex, Niagara, Windsor)

 

:Central Ontario – 6 regions (Brampton/Mississauga, Durham, Halton, Hamilton, Toronto, York)

 

:Eastern Ontario – 1 region (Ottawa)

 

The exact make up of these regions will be clarified, but the areas should be assumed to be the closest to you.

 

We will need organizers for each region, responsibilities to include.

 

-.loc files for each region

-must include all caches in history

(ACTIVE or ARCHIVED)

-traditional caches

-multi caches

-event caches

-virtual caches

-web cam caches

-letterbox hybrid caches

-NOT LOCATIONLESS CACHES

-.loc files for series in region

-each stage in the series

-NOT the final stage

 

-List of active caches per region

-each to include

-Name of cache

-Waypoint (hypertext to GC.com)

-Type of cache

-Co-ordinates

-Parking area co-ords

-Time to complete (estimated) from parking spot to cache and back

-Difficulty, Terrain & Voter Rating (see below)

 

As part of the web site I would like to see a Voter Rating system, which would benefit those travelling to other regions

 

-Develop a Voter rating system for caches

-must have 5 votes minimum

-rated between 1 & 5, by 1/2's

-ratings are for the following ideas

-enjoyability

-condition of cache site

-This will be an average score

 

 

-Information sheet for government agencies, landowners, other groups. A basic guideline of safe geocaching practices and low impact placement of geocaches.

 

-List of members

-hypertext to placed caches

-contact info (optional)

 

-For each region there would be a cache-of-the-day.

 

 

Looks so far like OGA is winning. Glad to see some agreement here.

 

I am actively looking for volunteers for EVERY region to act in the following capacities....

 

- lead organizer (maker of the .loc files, requesting parking co-ords etc)

- CITO representative (to organize CITO events)

- Newsletter writer / Secretary

 

The lead organizer will be required to update .loc files weekly-biweekly, and may be asked to handle the removal of abandoned caches that gc.com wishes picked up or to liason between cachers and organizations that request cache relocations.

 

I think CITO rep speaks for itself

 

Newsletter writer / Secretary. I would like a quarterly message to start off with, if you think you have the desire to market your region, this is for you!

 

Let's keep the ideas coming.

 

I would like to see some groups that we can approach to work with to better the image of geocaching that are not of a political nature, like Scouts or some such.

 

Let me know what you think.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+logger&trail]

The list looks great BQ ! Its a really good start. The only position I think you failed to mention was a webmaster / site co-ordinator. If he is willing I would love to nominate Keith Watson I really loved the Southern Ontario site he put up. Hopefully he is up to the challenge.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

[+Halden]

Looks like we may have a real plan of action here. I am in the Ottawa region and want to (and will) contribute, I just have to figure out in which capacity I could be of most help and how much time I can devote.

[+Amazon Annie]

Sounds like this is shaping up quickly. I am curious though why Hamilton was put into the Toronto group. Since the Bruce Trail runs through the area, I would think that it would fit into the SW Ontario region. I tend to look up to KW and down to Niagara for my caches (and Halton). Just my .02 cents worth. Count me in for any volunteer positions!

[+The Blue Quasar]

1Short.... Hamilton was not put in the Toronto group. For Central Ontario there would be 6 regions. Each would have it's own lead organizer.

 

I used the regional breakdown from Elections Ontario. There are many areas that aren't actually covered by that grouping of regions.

 

Like I said, these are just rough regions that will be clairified soon. I believe that Elections Ontario uses territories based on voter population. I plan on spending some time this week figuring out what the realistic regions should be.

 

However, the above list will probably stand and the municipalities that make each region up with be posted.

 

It really has no bearing if Hamilton and Toronto are in the same section, and let's say Ottawa is different. I was just trying to keep the areas managable. Having 42 municipalities and each with representation would be overwhelming.

 

The Blue Quasar

Edited January 8, 2004 by The Blue Quasar

[+Halden]

BQ,

 

What are the priorities for OGA? WHich Steps will be the first steps and what is your estimated timeline?

[+The Blue Quasar]

Timeline for the Cachers Group.

 

Here is a rough schedule of planning for the Ontario Group. (no name as of yet)

 

Jan 14th - Guidelines for lead organizers, responsibilities and duties.

 

Jan 18th - Posting the "Official Name" of our group. Posting new forum topic for idea submission.

 

Jan 24th - Canvassing for lead organizers for areas that have not been filled.

 

Jan 31st - Basic web site presence, .loc files for municipalities in first draft versions. (to be updated bi-weekly, moving to weekly by Spring)

 

Feb 1-28th - Creation of "Our objectives and practices" document for non-geocaching entities. This should cover the advantages of supporting geocaching.

 

Mar 1 - Forwarding our contact info to Cache-Tech and Parks Ontario. To include the "Objectives and Practices" document.

 

Apr 1 - Fully functional web site with all major caching centres represented, with full weekly updates.

 

Anything else, please feel free to post a message to let myself know what you would like.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+Halden]

Nice timeline. Give a great idea of the steps to be taken. I am very anxious to see what we can do.

[+Algonquin Bound]

Keep up the good work, BQ. When the new topic is opened, I will close this thread, but I believe the information may still be viewed. One simply cannot post, after it has been locked.

[+Flick]

Well done, BQ!! I see you've applied the same substantial creative and organizational qualities that are evident in your caches to this endeavour. Put me down as being in favour of the OGA name (my retention abilities limit me to about three letters or so, anyway. It's perfect) As always, I'll be happy to offer support and assistance in any way possible. Initially, I offer to assume the voluntary position as OGA liason to Tim Horton's.....

[+Flick]

Looking forward to Saturday evening, where I'm sure this will be a popular subject of discussion!

Edited January 12, 2004 by Flick

[+Halden]

MAke sure you keep us posted on how the event went, what transpired and give us soem pics to put faces to names if possible.

[Geo Dog]

First, I want to say congrats to BQ on his new role in the GeoCaching world.

 

I like the name of O.G.A. , seems it is the popular one as well.

 

Now just a couple of ideas

 

1. When the web site is up possibly cache-tech (if we ask really nice) could pin a message at the top of the Canada board with a link to our site. (and any other group such as the BC group) This way the site is easy to find and no one can say we are trying to hide anything. (Seemed to be a big concern on the last thread)

 

2. Web sites can become costly so if there is GeoCaching related ads I think no one will mind. Any monies generated can go to running the web site and any additional money could go to helping with any costs that are required in dealing with the Parks/ Government (I believe from my readings here that cache-tech is currently talking with such groups) Also any extra money could be used as a donation to the Bruce Trail (since it dose cover a hefty portion of Ontario) or similar group.

 

3. An annual event which is hosted in a different region each year so people can find who everyone is and get more input. This gives everyone a chance to attend and will not favour one area over another.

 

4. The web site and events should be open to everyone not just members of the association. On the last thread there seemed to be a lot of concern over secret meetings @ Tim Horton's. ( at the corner of 4th and nowhere.. one of my favourites) This would help elevate these fears.

 

Well that is all for now in the idea dept.

 

For anyone who dose not know BQ I just want to add I have known him as co-worker and friend for 14 years and I have the up most coffidence that he will always do what is best for GeoCaching, and will listen to all input from all. He will honestly represent us to the best of his ability and will always keep us informed and will not put up with any behind the scenes planning. I would have added these comments on the nominations thread but I did not get around to reading it until after it was locked.

 

In closing I must say it is a shame that gm100guy has not made any views known here, as it is always good to hear opposing viewpoints to open new possibilties. I hope this is not a case of " I didn't win so I am taking my cache and going home"

[+Halden]

Great Ideas, Geo Dog. I particularly like #3. Annual Meet and Greets could go a long way in helping us raise our profile.

[gm100guy]

In closing I must say it is a shame that gm100guy has not made any views known here, as it is always good to hear opposing viewpoints to open new possibilties. I hope this is not a case of " I didn't win so I am taking my cache and going home"

 

No I have not taken my cache and gone home.

 

I have been following the thread and I am waiting to see what happens with the idea's posted.

 

All I have seen here is a list of things that are planned to be done. I had my say on what I would have done and it was not the winning platform.

 

If you go back and count the posts in this thread it looks to me like only 15 cachers have made any comment here, So where are all the others with there idea's?

 

[+Halden]

Welcome back GM,

 

Hopefully you can provide you input and explain your point of view on the various issues that will arise in this complicated process. It would be great if you could become one of the 15 trying to pull this all together and make it 16.

[+The Blue Quasar]

I know from where GM100GUY is coming from. It does seem that there are only 12-20 people that are posting in these forums. But I know that there are probably a lot of people that are reading it and not commenting. It's hard to say at this point in time.

 

Perhaps people are waiting to see what becomes of this. And I must confess that I am of two minds about the web site being either a membership (free) style, or open to all.

 

I can certainly see both sides on that issue, and to me the only real solution is to have membership be optional.

 

That way land owners and other interested parties can view the content, that is one of the many reasons to have this group in the first place. However, like the gc.com site certain areas would require you to have to have some kind of account to log in with.

 

Certain items could be for members only, like voting or viewing cache ratings or if there ever was a forum section. I don't know if forums are required since there are forums here, but maybe municipalities will want one. I think that forums should be open to all and if a "Guest Account" posts a comment that it should be accepted unless it offensive and therefore deleted.

 

But like all things, one step at a time.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+logger&trail]

My feeling is that one of our main focuses should be education and that by making the site "members only" we would be denying access to those not part of the group. We would be closing ourselves off to teaching others about our sport. If we wanted to make certain areas "members only" I would limit it to areas which are only of concern to members.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

[+Halden]

I agree that the site should open to all. Not only so that Land Owners, Park Officials etc. can view what we are doing but also so potential members could see what they would be geting into. I feel that this Organization should be about educating the public about what we do and how we do it and we musn't leave them in the dark. This Organization has to be as transparent as possible.

[+The Blue Quasar]

Very valid points. I agree that there really is no need for a membership login style.

 

Apparently there was a bit of unclarity about my timeline. I was working on the lead organizer's responsibilities on 14th Jan but I am not planning on posting them until the time that I will be seeking LO's. If someone wanted advance info then I could forward it to them, but as it stands now it is in rough draft format and will be polished for when I seek out help.

 

And I too agree that full disclosure is best especially when presenting ideas to government groups.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+The Blue Quasar]

I have begun recruiting some people for tasks related to the creation of the Ontario version of a geocaching group.

 

I do intend on doing more contacting over the next few days to weeks, but I wanted everyone to know that I have been in contact with several people already to get some preliminary work done.

 

The Blue Quasar

[+Halden]

Great to see that the wheels are in motion. Keep us posted.

[+Algonquin Bound]

This thread is being closed. The ideas and suggestions will now be continued in OGA - The Ontario Geocaching Association. Thank you all for your ideas and suggestions. Please continue the support in the new thread.