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Over time I’ve tried to figure out the forum rules and it’s hit and miss. The one rule that I can’t quite get a grip on is an unwritten one. The forum guidelines are clear that only geocaching topics should be discussed. Posts that do not relate to geocaching are discouraged.

 

Yet here is the problem. Some threads live on, others are quickly closed. When Sadam was captured two threads popped up. One was closed, the other survived. Both were off topic. Abject silliness lives on, and on, and on and really has no topic at all. I don't have an issue with off topic posts.

 

The unwritten rules I’ve figured out for off topic topics are these. They are not uniform rules though.

 

1) More is tolerated in regional forums than the general forums.

2) Any topic that is perceived as having a dark lining is closed.

3) Any topic by one of The Usual Suspects is usually closed (good or bad).

4) Topics that allow members to vent ‘harmlessly’ seem to live for a short while before their demise.

5) Topics that are positive (no dark lining) are often allowed to die a natural death.

 

Yeah I know having an off topic area has been beat to death and GC.com has said “No”. So it has been spoken, so it shall be. It just seems simpler to have a spot to send all “off topic” topics too so that you only have one rule instead of a bunch of unwritten ones.

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Figured I'd beat the mods to this one:

 

Abject Silliness is the "grandfathered" off-topic post allowed to linger on like Bilbo without an elf boat. It existed before the mods and will continue to exist long after we are gone and the machines harvest people energy in little pink pods. This is your "off-topic forum" as GC.com is going to implement it.

 

This was all stated by a mod some time not too long ago. I tried a few searches, but it appears I'm just not half the talent that is Markwell.

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Regarding off-topic posts, here are some informal rules that I follow in moderating the Geocaching Topics forum. These are my personal opinions only.

 

1. The Abject Silliness topic remains open as a single off-topic thread for, well, abjectly silly stuff. This topic is moderated only for inappropriate language, personal attacks, etc. It would be closed in the event of thermonuclear war or upon instructions from TPTB.

 

2. An off-topic aside within a regular topic is fine, within limits. Picking up on something that another person mentioned is a normal part of conversation. If the separate topic starts to gather steam, however, then a new thread should be started. A moderator can assist by moving posts into a new thread upon request. Or, one of the community members involved in the discussion can start a new topic by saying "we were talking about virtual caches over in the other thread, and then so-and-so made a great point about webcam caches which deserves its own topic."

 

3. Occasional off-topic remarks within a geocaching topic are fine, so long as they don't start to dominate the thread. For example, a good play on words, joking about something said by a prior poster, is a normal part of conversation. But if ten posts follow it by continuing the joke, then the topic has been derailed.

 

4. We normally loosen the rules just a bit around each major holiday, allowing threads such as "Merry Christmas" and "Happy New Year." These usually run their course and fall to the bottom of the page after the holiday ends. Even better, though, are holiday-related topics that DO have something to do with geocaching, like "Did you get a new GPS for Christmas?"

 

5. Personally, I feel very little guilt in making off-topic remarks, using my moderator account, in a thread which criticizes/flames/attacks the moderators. Sometimes it seems like the "no personal attacks" rule doesn't apply to the moderators, but it does. Generally I choose not to respond in kind to these posts. Your alternative to reading Keystone's recipes for a dry martini would be to hear my actual opinions about what's being said in the thread. I highly recommend the martini.

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JMBella, forgive me, but you posted your question while I was composing my longer response, so I'm answering separately.

 

I think you should investigate one of the many third party applications for posting batteries in the manner you describe. This is not a functionality currently available on the geocaching.com website, but you'll find that you can do almost anything using a downloaded pocket query GPX file with third party software.

 

Be sure to check the "Show Cornflakes" box when submitting your pocket query request.

 

I hope that this is helpful.

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JMBella, forgive me, but you posted your question while I was composing my longer response, so I'm answering separately.

 

I think you should investigate one of the many third party applications for posting batteries in the manner you describe. This is not a functionality currently available on the geocaching.com website, but you'll find that you can do almost anything using a downloaded pocket query GPX file with third party software.

 

Be sure to check the "Show Cornflakes" box when submitting your pocket query request.

 

I hope that this is helpful.

Extremely helpful Keystone thanks. However, it was Johnny that originally posted it in the New Forum Guideline thread. I thought it fit perfectly in this topic about off topic topics. I think we've all benefited by your on topic answer to the off topic question... or is that your off topic answer to the on topic question? I'm very confused. I need to go outside and play. Off to hide another cache.

 

What's the best waterproof container?

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Has anyone seen J5?  Did he get banned?  When is he expected back?

He got banned for a couple of months and his IP address was blocked. I'm not sure when his sentence is up. You can find him over at Woodsters.

 

_____________

Gorak

Geo 105

I'm not far behind either. The old warnings do not seem to wash out as fast as the new ones are added.

 

Hopefully someone will notice if I'm gone! :blink:

 

Seriously though, I think some people (not necessarily the mods, but the readers who complain to them) are too thin skinned. Poor poor sensibilities get so damaged by the occasional "dadgum" or "fudge off". They should try listening to teenagers talk, it'll curl your hair.

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Seriously though, I think some people (not necessarily the mods, but the readers who complain to them) are too thin skinned. Poor poor sensibilities get so damaged by the occasional "dadgum" or "fudge off". They should try listening to teenagers talk, it'll curl your hair.

I think its just one of the problems when you cater to the lowest common denominator.

 

___________

Gorak

Geo 8 105

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My personal observation is that the rules are enforced in a capricious and arbitrary manner. More subjective than anything else.

Stuff like that is posted a lot and it makes me think that there are those out there that would like there to be no subjectiveness what-so-ever and more moderation in return.

 

Personally I think some OT is ok as long as its not meant to derail threads and as long as its not meant to hurt anyone else. The keyword is 'some', in moderation if you will. :blink:

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My personal observation is that the rules are enforced in a capricious and arbitrary manner.  More subjective than anything else.

Stuff like that is posted a lot and it makes me think that there are those out there that would like there to be no subjectiveness what-so-ever and more moderation in return.

 

Personally I think some OT is ok as long as its not meant to derail threads and as long as its not meant to hurt anyone else. The keyword is 'some', in moderation if you will. :blink:

I agree, but the rules clearly state that no profanity should be used, but it is allowed for some people.

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I agree, but the rules clearly state that no profanity should be used, but it is allowed for some people.

Solohiker, I note first that your posts about the perceived unfairness of the moderators and about profanity are both off-topic to the subject of off-topic posts. Nevertheless, after trying initially to ignore your first post, I now feel compelled to respond to your second post.

 

Informally, we use "broadcast standards" for profanity in posts. Initially when the moderating system was implemented, I tried enforcing a stricter standard and I was asked by both TPTB and the community to back off a notch. I've done that. Therefore, an occasional "dadgum" or "this pisses me off" won't set off anyone's warning meters.

 

On the other hand, something like a racially insensitive word will set off a warning meter. dadgum, language like that really pisses me off.

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He got banned for a couple of months and his IP address was blocked. I'm not sure when his sentence is up. You can find him over at Woodsters.

 

Was he banned? I was under the impression that he just had decided to not post here as much. But I'll admit that I didn't read everything there too carefully.

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They should try listening to teenagers talk, it'll curl your hair.

Is that why I used to have curls in high school?

 

I imagine they'll come back in 6 years when my oldest turns 13 :blink:

I still have all my curls! Especially now that I can grow my hair out....

 

(dadgum fudging military haircuts!)

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Seriously though, I think some people (not necessarily the mods, but the readers who complain to them) are too thin skinned.

No kidding. I felt sorry for the moderators after having read the attack e-mails from one person who claimed to be constantly in contact with the moderators during one discussion where some people (but not him) got warned.

 

It's made me mull over a new standard for moderation, where anyone can warn anyone else at the cost of giving themselves double the warning. (ie. I could warn criminal 10% by accepting a 20% warning myself). This more clearly points to the second group of troublemakers, ie. those that abuse their ability to complain to moderators and get people warned with NO repercussions (unlike the moderator who I'm starting to think gets flamed if they do and harassed if they don't).

 

There's also times I'm willing to take other people's warnings on myself. If I think criminal has been warned too often for too little reason, I'm willing to take 30% off of him and take it on my self simply because I feel I would have said the same thing as him a number of times and I wish I had.

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Was he banned? I was under the impression that he just had decided to not post here as much. But I'll admit that I didn't read everything there too carefully.

Definately banned. He discovered it when he tried to access the forums and found his IP address blocked. Another cacher in the area, who has the same ISP, also had his IP address blocked by accident. J5 found out shortly afterward it was a 2 month ban.

 

___________

Gorak

Geo 105

Edited by Gorak
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I agree, but the rules clearly state that no profanity should be used, but it is allowed for some people.

Solohiker, I note first that your posts about the perceived unfairness of the moderators and about profanity are both off-topic to the subject of off-topic posts. Nevertheless, after trying initially to ignore your first post, I now feel compelled to respond to your second post.

 

Informally, we use "broadcast standards" for profanity in posts. Initially when the moderating system was implemented, I tried enforcing a stricter standard and I was asked by both TPTB and the community to back off a notch. I've done that. Therefore, an occasional "dadgum" or "this pisses me off" won't set off anyone's warning meters.

 

On the other hand, something like a racially insensitive word will set off a warning meter. dadgum, language like that really pisses me off.

I did not say the moderating was unfair just unpredictable, capricious. The moderating seems to have changed since my last ban. I hope that in some small way I was a part of that.

 

As far as off topic I never really did understand the off topic rules. These threads are simply conversations. When I talk to people the conversation leads to related topics as well as unrelated topics.

 

If the conversation is interesting then others join in. At the point it becomes a quagmire between two people who never will agree then I agree.... Off with their topic!

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On the other hand, something like a racially insensitive word will set off a warning meter. dadgum, language like that really pisses me off.

In regards to posting racially insensitive words I agree.

 

I made an inappropriate racial post and was moderated. My comments were not intended to be racially insensitive, but it was a lapse in judgement on my part.

 

I appreciate the moderator's sense of duty and apologize.

 

Ack! I am off topic again :blink:

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After reading the thread, then re-reading the original post I'm beginning to wonder. Which is the worst offense, posting an off topic thread, or posting to a thread with material that isn't about the thread's topic? It seems like most OT threads get nipped in the bud pretty quickly. Threads that get derailed also are closed. I think it would be better if instead of closing them, the offending posts would be deleted individually. That way, the thread can continue on topic. If there were an off topic forum, there might be less closings of threads that stray, and the rest of the forum would benefit. All of the grumbling could occur there, separate from the legitimate caching discussion. I'd be willing to kick in a few extra bucks for the feature. I'm sure there are others who would as well. It would be great if there was some kind of way to "hide" the OT forum from people who don't wish to participate. It has been mentioned that the mods have a private forum. Something like that could be arranged for those users who aren't offended by foul language, and would like to really "tell someone off" without fear of warning or bans. I sure would like to tear into a few of the users here, but I value the use of these forums more than the desire to really "let 'em have it". A lot of pent up agression might be the cause of all the dissent in the forums. People have mentioned inconsistency in moderation. I don't think that's the case. Every once in a while someone takes a cheap shot, and it slips by. If we had a place to address those cheap shots without fear of reprisal, perhaps the mods wouldn't have to hear so many complaints.

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After reading the thread, then re-reading the original post I'm beginning to wonder. Which is the worst offense, posting an off topic thread, or posting to a thread with material that isn't about the thread's topic? It seems like most OT threads get nipped in the bud pretty quickly. Threads that get derailed also are closed. I think it would be better if instead of closing them, the offending posts would be deleted individually. That way, the thread can continue on topic. If there were an off topic forum, there might be less closings of threads that stray, and the rest of the forum would benefit. All of the grumbling could occur there, separate from the legitimate caching discussion. I'd be willing to kick in a few extra bucks for the feature. I'm sure there are others who would as well. It would be great if there was some kind of way to "hide" the OT forum from people who don't wish to participate. It has been mentioned that the mods have a private forum. Something like that could be arranged for those users who aren't offended by foul language, and would like to really "tell someone off" without fear of warning or bans. I sure would like to tear into a few of the users here, but I value the use of these forums more than the desire to really "let 'em have it". A lot of pent up agression might be the cause of all the dissent in the forums. People have mentioned inconsistency in moderation. I don't think that's the case. Every once in a while someone takes a cheap shot, and it slips by. If we had a place to address those cheap shots without fear of reprisal, perhaps the mods wouldn't have to hear so many complaints.

The mods forum is on a seperate server.

There is nothing stopping those that want a seperate forum like the mods have from starting one. All you need is some one to host the thing. Thats really not a bad idea. That way you could flame away with out fear of warnings. Anyone want to host the Off Topic Forum for those that seem to need one?

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I just don't get the high level of censorship on the forums to begin with. Deleting off topic posts or closing threads instead of a simple mention that it is going a little astray is overkill. I realize this may be normal in the country that hosts the forums but it seems excessive elsewhere.

 

'Tattooing' users with warning meters would be questionable elsewhere as well. But that is off topic. <_<

 

Lighten up. Eat some lard. (Oxymoron)

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After reading the thread, then re-reading the original post I'm beginning to wonder. Which is the worst offense, posting an off topic thread, or posting to a thread with material that isn't about the thread's topic? It seems like most OT threads get nipped in the bud pretty quickly. Threads that get derailed also are closed. I think it would be better if instead of closing them, the offending posts would be deleted individually. That way, the thread can continue on topic. If there were an off topic forum, there might be less closings of threads that stray, and the rest of the forum would benefit. All of the grumbling could occur there, separate from the legitimate caching discussion. I'd be willing to kick in a few extra bucks for the feature. I'm sure there are others who would as well. It would be great if there was some kind of way to "hide" the OT forum from people who don't wish to participate. It has been mentioned that the mods have a private forum. Something like that could be arranged for those users who aren't offended by foul language, and would like to really "tell someone off" without fear of warning or bans. I sure would like to tear into a few of the users here, but I value the use of these forums more than the desire to really "let 'em have it". A lot of pent up agression might be the cause of all the dissent in the forums. People have mentioned inconsistency in moderation. I don't think that's the case. Every once in a while someone takes a cheap shot, and it slips by. If we had a place to address those cheap shots without fear of reprisal, perhaps the mods wouldn't have to hear so many complaints.

The mods forum is on a seperate server.

There is nothing stopping those that want a seperate forum like the mods have from starting one. All you need is some one to host the thing. Thats really not a bad idea. That way you could flame away with out fear of warnings. Anyone want to host the Off Topic Forum for those that seem to need one?

woodsters has that covered you can find it here off topic so I really don't see what the complaint is. Most of the ones complaining about not being able to post off topic are regular members there.

 

El Diablo

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I think the report button gets too easy to resort to for some people and causes undo actions...that said I can understand why it is needed, but I can't help but wonder if it contributes to some of the flame wars between members...

 

Don't like what he said...HIT THE BUTTON...

He got one over on me....HIT THE BUTTON...

I don't like his use of smilies...HIT THE BUTTON...

His avatar stinks in my opinion...HIT THE BUTTON....

 

You get the idea

 

I have never hit the report button (unless I hit it accidently) nor do I plan to.

I am an adult...if someone says something to tick me off...I leave the forums for awhile...simple solution.

 

To self moderate usually has kept some threads going for a very long time, and can still be uproarously entertaining...

 

lulu <_<

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I think the report button gets too easy to resort to for some people and causes undo actions...that said I can understand why it is needed, but I can't help but wonder if it contributes to some of the flame wars between members...

 

Don't like what he said...HIT THE BUTTON...

He got one over on me....HIT THE BUTTON...

I don't like his use of smilies...HIT THE BUTTON...

His avatar stinks in my opinion...HIT THE BUTTON....

 

You get the idea

 

I have never hit the report button (unless I hit it accidently) nor do I plan to.

I am an adult...if someone says something to tick me off...I leave the forums for awhile...simple solution.

 

To self moderate usually has kept some threads going for a very long time, and can still be uproarously entertaining...

 

lulu <_<

I agree with you that the report button isn't needed. I think the Moderators keep a close eye on things and know when someone has gone over the top.

 

However I don't think that everytime some one hits the report button that action is taken. I believe that the Moderators have sense enough to read between the lines.

 

El Diablo

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I think the report button gets too easy to resort to for some people and causes undo actions...that said I can understand why it is needed, but I can't help but wonder if it contributes to some of the flame wars between members...

 

Don't like what he said...HIT THE BUTTON...

He got one over on me....HIT THE BUTTON...

I don't like his use of smilies...HIT THE BUTTON...

His avatar stinks in my opinion...HIT THE BUTTON....

 

You get the idea

 

I have never hit the report button (unless I hit it accidently) nor do I plan to.

I am an adult...if someone says something to tick me off...I leave the forums for awhile...simple solution.

 

To self moderate usually has kept some threads going for a very long time, and can still be uproarously entertaining...

 

lulu  <_<

I agree with you that the report button isn't needed. I think the Moderators keep a close eye on things and know when someone has gone over the top.

 

However I don't think that everytime some one hits the report button that action is taken. I believe that the Moderators have sense enough to read between the lines.

 

El Diablo

Well I do to El Diablo...but it must be very frustrating to have some of the workload they have constantly interupted by members throwing sand... :wacko:

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The mods forum is on a seperate server.

There is nothing stopping those that want a seperate forum like the mods have from starting one. All you need is some one to host the thing. Thats really not a bad idea. That way you could flame away with out fear of warnings. Anyone want to host the Off Topic Forum for those that seem to need one?

Free bandwidth, free disc space and free use of the software for any topic we want?

 

Uh, Ok!

 

Where do I sign up?

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In regards to posting racially insensitive words I agree.

Yes but even that is not applied evenly.

 

There was another thread where a post used what I considered to be racially insensitive words about a group of white people. The poster said that was OK because s/he had never seen anybody banned anywhere on the internet for using any types of terms to describe white people.

 

I reported the post but nothing, as far as I know, came of it. So it seems that it is OK here to use any sort of terms you want about white people. Could the mods please let us know which races it is OK to be racially insensitive to and which ones are not?

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I am pretty new here and there might be a board like this on Groundspeak, but I really dug on www.gamefaqs.com they would have "serious" boards and social boards. The social boards would be way off topic but it was nice to post silly ideas, and other off topic threads.

 

Is there something like that at Groundspeak? I really know it is juvenile, but sometimes it is fun to throw out a crazy post, as long as they are civil and not vulgar.

 

Doesn't the idea of a Geocache Social Board sound somewhat appealing? I know it probably sounds like a nightmare to the moderators!

 

Just an idea!

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Is there something like that at Groundspeak? I really know it is juvenile, but sometimes it is fun to throw out a crazy post, as long as they are civil and not vulgar.

Well welcome to the game.

 

You may want to search the forum for past discussions about an off-topic section in the forums.

 

If you don't feel like doing that, I can give you the readers digest version -- NO!

 

The folks that run this website don't feel it is necessary or fits into their vision of how they want things to run so it ain't goin' happen.

 

But you should try searching the posts to get a better feel for how this has played out over time.

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In regards to posting racially insensitive words I agree.

Yes but even that is not applied evenly.

 

There was another thread where a post used what I considered to be racially insensitive words about a group of white people. The poster said that was OK because s/he had never seen anybody banned anywhere on the internet for using any types of terms to describe white people.

 

I reported the post but nothing, as far as I know, came of it. So it seems that it is OK here to use any sort of terms you want about white people. Could the mods please let us know which races it is OK to be racially insensitive to and which ones are not?

Just to clairify, Nope. So far no one has warned me about the use of "whitebread honky cracker". Or using a bastard file. Or taking my bitch to the vet for a checkup. Everyone draws the line a bit differently and if the mods draw it a bit different from you, I, and each other, well, that's life. They're people, not robots. And the last thing I think we want them to become is "the forum gestapo" complete with rules, regulations, and leather uniforms. (Ok. Maybe the leather uniforms might be cute...) I'd rather they made mistakes and showed a little inconsistancy, because that's what honest people do.

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In regards to posting racially insensitive words I agree.

Yes but even that is not applied evenly.

 

There was another thread where a post used what I considered to be racially insensitive words about a group of white people. The poster said that was OK because s/he had never seen anybody banned anywhere on the internet for using any types of terms to describe white people.

 

I reported the post but nothing, as far as I know, came of it. So it seems that it is OK here to use any sort of terms you want about white people. Could the mods please let us know which races it is OK to be racially insensitive to and which ones are not?

Just to clairify, Nope. So far no one has warned me about the use of "whitebread honky cracker". Or using a bastard file. Or taking my bitch to the vet for a checkup. Everyone draws the line a bit differently and if the mods draw it a bit different from you, I, and each other, well, that's life. They're people, not robots. And the last thing I think we want them to become is "the forum gestapo" complete with rules, regulations, and leather uniforms. (Ok. Maybe the leather uniforms might be cute...) I'd rather they made mistakes and showed a little inconsistancy, because that's what honest people do.

And for the record, I'm totally caucasion, and I can't think of any terms I've ever heard to describe my race that I find offensive, but there are a lot of them I find quite amusing. Whitebread honky cracker is one that I hadn't heard before, but laughed my whitebread honky cracker head off at! Bons, you really got a way with words, and that's why I enjoy most of your posts, whether on or off topic! ;)

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Just to clairify, Nope. So far no one has warned me about the use of "whitebread honky cracker". Or using a bastard file. Or taking my bitch to the vet for a checkup. Everyone draws the line a bit differently and if the mods draw it a bit different from you, I, and each other, well, that's life. They're people, not robots. And the last thing I think we want them to become is "the forum gestapo" complete with rules, regulations, and leather uniforms. (Ok. Maybe the leather uniforms might be cute...) I'd rather they made mistakes and showed a little inconsistancy, because that's what honest people do.

I find little to disagree with what you say. I also think we are on the same page with the leather uniforms. But that may be best left to another thread ... :P

 

As in the other thread that you and I are referring to I just wanted to point out the double standard of things. If certain terms are not supposed to be used because they might offended a certain group of people then why can't other groups of people also be offended by certain terms?

 

For the most part I think it is silly for anyone to be offended by any term that classifies an entire group of people. I think if one wants to take offense then you have to question how secure you are with who you are. But if other groups get to take offense, I don't want to be left out.

 

Again, as the examples from the other post show none of it makes any sense: I can refer to the NAACP but I certainly am not supposed to refer to a group of people using just the CP part. :) A rap group can call themselves NWA but I certainly can not refer to them by the N word. ;) I just have to scratch my head sometimes.

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Is there something like that at Groundspeak? I really know it is juvenile, but sometimes it is fun to throw out a crazy post, as long as they are civil and not vulgar.

Well welcome to the game.

 

You may want to search the forum for past discussions about an off-topic section in the forums.

 

If you don't feel like doing that, I can give you the readers digest version -- NO!

 

The folks that run this website don't feel it is necessary or fits into their vision of how they want things to run so it ain't goin' happen.

 

But you should try searching the posts to get a better feel for how this has played out over time.

I will try to search out some of the prior topics upon your suggestion. But your "Readers Digest" version was read.

 

I probably wouldn't say "it ain't goin' happen" though. If enough premium members request one social forum and a member voluntered to moderate it, it should not be an issue. But I am speaking again without researching all the logs that have been posted before. I better get to it.

 

Thanks!

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