Schoolground Cache?????

December 29, 2003

What are the rules applying to placing a cache on school property??? I could not see any reference. Some schools have lots of property that is not really close to classrooms and is quite remote. ie:colleges

4.8k · December 29, 2003

I say don't because people wandering around school yards can be misconstrued as something sinister. Run a search for playground caches. It is the same idea/concern.

Edit: public colleges could be different.

Edited December 29, 2003 by carleenp

December 29, 2003

Didn't see any rules. Personally wouldn't touch a grade school area, and above that only if public was normally permitted/ accepted in the locale. Just my two cents.

I think most colleges do allow public access to some areas, just not near dorms or actual educationaal buildings.

December 29, 2003

I agree a grade school cache would probably get an interview with a policeman, but like I say the college campuses here are quite huge with a lot of remote areas. Tahoe was the same way.

3.5k · December 29, 2003

This is a good case of "ask before you place", IMO.

Ask the entity that manages the land and contact your local cache reviewer *before* you place the cache.

The before part is very important!

December 29, 2003

I'm a middle school teacher and the problem would be if someone were to look for the cache during school hours. If someone were to be on school grounds during school hours, I guarantee that person would be questioned. After school hours, as least where I live I see no problem. I have even thought of placing a cache on the campus where I teach. I would place a note on the log page telling cachers the hours school is in session and not to search for the cache during these hours.

2.1k · December 29, 2003

One thing you may want to watch out for is security/police. Most colleges have a 24 hr security/police dept. Some school systems have school police departments now. Although many do not have a police officer there 24 hrs a day, they tend to go from school to school checking on things, so even after hours one may stop by. Also some schools have cameras outside as well. You may be a wanted person if a camera picked up your presence the same day that some vandalism or or burglary happened. We have done a cache or two at a school or right behind one. My opinion is they are not good ideas, with the way things are nowadays. Especially for those of you who carry guns and knives and etc while caching.

20.7k · December 29, 2003

I generally agree with all who have posted. While there are no hard and fast rules on this, it is problematic.

I have a micro at a small walking park/playground which is on school property. Approval has been obtained and it is not uncommon for adults to be walking there during school hours. This one is no different from any micro in a public place, if citizens are about, one might have to abort the hunt.

If I am driving to a cache location and find it at a school, I will not attempt it if it is during school hours.

Like any cache, if it is only available during certain hours, this should be explained in the description.

December 30, 2003

A more established hider in the area hid a cache that was located in a fake book in some remote corner of the local college's library. This was a virtual about a local elementary school, well, before it was "moved" to a more northern location

December 30, 2003

I did this one not too long ago Salmon. The only logical place to park is in the school lot. The only feasible way to get to the cache is through the school. I did feel a little creepy walking through the school, even though it was the evening of a school holiday. Had I been with my kids, I would have felt better. The cache description does indicate that it is an evening cache. It was a nice cache in a great location. I think as long as the description indicates that traversing a school ground is required and the best time is during non-school hours, it should be allowable. I don't think caches should be allowed on actual developed school grounds (school meaning pre-school thru 12). In the case of this cache it wasn't.

24.7k · December 30, 2003

I did one right next to a grade school. There was a creek running by the school that was used as a trail by the locals as well as being a popular launch site for tubes to float down the creek.

To be fair I pointed out that you should not attempt the cache during school hours.

December 30, 2003

I've done several near schools. If they are properly placed, then they are OK. One was in a nature preserve on school grounds with public parking. One was along a school owned hiking trail with public access. Several were in public areas of college campuses.

The one that bothered me was actually in a city park. It was located in a small ravine. As I was logging the cache, I heard a bunch of noise from above. I climbed up to see what was causing the noise. It turned out to be recess for an all-girls Christian junior high that was next to the park and this ravice. Luckily no one spotted me. I could imagine having to explain to the cop that I was looking for a cache and not peeping at a bunch of schoolgirls.

1.6k · December 30, 2003

We had a cache in Omaha that was in a park that abutted an elementary school. The cache was WELL away from the school or the playground part of the park, but was not very safe from plundering. It was soon archived. When you have kids in the area, they play in the area, and they walk home through the park. Ultimately, the odds are that the cache will be found and either reported as a bomb scare or plundered. I would stay away.

The problem with colleges is that getting permission from someone who has the authority to give it is problematic. Ask the admin, and you will probably get shunted to a flunky who is practiced at the bureaucratic art of saying no to cover their *ss. Ask physical plant and get shunted to admin or get approval from someone who ultimately doesn't have the authority to approve it after all or does, but doesn't have the desire or stones to deal with the an authority challenge and the cache will get yanked.

My advice: stay away from playgrounds and schools.

December 30, 2003

public schools are public property...you can pretty much go there any time...take a tour sometime to see how your tax dollars are being spent...in fact, after school hours, you can use the playground, football field, etc (you can even use the field during football practice, etc since it is after hours and not a reserved event)

December 30, 2003

I've placed a cache on school property but it is just off of a walking track open to the community at all times. a person in this area doesn't attract the attention of school officials.

December 30, 2003

I am a middle school student and there is a cache right behind my school. No, I didn't hid it- it was hidden by other cachers from inside the school. I have never seen people come look for it during school hours, but according to logs they did. Perhaps I didn't see them because I'm such a good student who would never be looking out the window. Another one nearby is behind my old elementary school. I found that one right after school let out there, and there were lots of kids on the playground. It was hidden WAY up a drumlin behind the school, so no kid was going to find it. No one even looked at us, we found the cache, and headed home. I like cemetery caches better than any other kind though.

3k · December 30, 2003

public schools are public property...you can pretty much go there any time...take a tour sometime to see how your tax dollars are being spent...in fact, after school hours, you can use the playground, football field, etc (you can even use the field during football practice, etc since it is after hours and not a reserved event)

Not here, one can't. School property and facilities can be used only with written permission from the Board of Ed in many towns.

I would not do a cache on school property during its hours of operation.

Edited December 30, 2003 by BassoonPilot

4k · December 30, 2003

public schools are public property...you can pretty much go there any time...take a tour sometime to see how your tax dollars are being spent...in fact, after school hours, you can use the playground, football field, etc (you can even use the field during football practice, etc since it is after hours and not a reserved event)

Not here, one can't. School property and facilities can be used only with written permission from the Board of Ed in many towns.

I would not do a cache on school property during its hours of operation.

Same around here. Aside from the softball diamonds, which are city owned, you must have BOE permission to even be on the school grounds at any time, and during school hours you must also check in with the Administration Office before you go anywhere on school grounds,even with the aforementioned permission.

2.1k · December 30, 2003

I echo Bassoon and Sparky. Everywhere I've been, you were supposed to be on school grounds for official business only. Did it happen? No. I've taken the kids to school playgrounds on the weekends back in Georgia. But technically, the BOE Police or even the Sheriff's dept would stop me if they saw me on the property (probably not so much if I was on the playground with my kids). Most schools nowadays keep the doors locked during school hours anyway. That should tell pretty much how tight they are in some places about school security. And lets face it, if you are a male and are near a school during the hours and are snooping around, you are suspicious and probably will be met with an officer or deputy.

April 2, 2006

I am in the process of getting a cache approved that is near a school. The initial response from the reviewer was that it was too near school property. I've searched through the forums and found a few threads about this, but my question is, how close is too close?

The cache placement, which is the final of a multi, is in a green space adjacent to the school and is more than .11 miles from the building. I made it clear in the description that hunting the cache during school hours was a bad idea, since you would have to cross school property to get to it.

I have hunted other caches in the area that are much closer to schools than this, and I have always waited for an evening or weekend to hunt such caches.

Thoughts?

2.1k · April 2, 2006

I am in the process of getting a cache approved that is near a school. The initial response from the reviewer was that it was too near school property. I've searched through the forums and found a few threads about this, but my question is, how close is too close?

The cache placement, which is the final of a multi, is in a green space adjacent to the school and is more than .11 miles from the building. I made it clear in the description that hunting the cache during school hours was a bad idea, since you would have to cross school property to get to it.

I have hunted other caches in the area that are much closer to schools than this, and I have always waited for an evening or weekend to hunt such caches.

Thoughts?

Personally I would have started a new thread for this, rather than dig out an old one like this, came about an inch from replying to a message from 2003.

I don't *think* there are any hard and fast rules about how close is too close. My guess is that the reviewer is twigging on your 'don't hunt in school hours' comment. If you feel the need to say that, then maybe it *is* too close.

So, would hunting it in school hours cause alarm? If yes, then you are too close to the school. If no, then I think you are far enough.

Maybe take a few pictures from the cache site, looking back towards the school, and a few from the school looking towards the cache site. Give the reviewer an idea of exactly what the area is like at 'ground level'. Just a thought anyways...

**edit** just reread what you wrote... So you have to cross school property to get to it??? No I probably wouldn't hide anything there. Are you even allowed on school property without having official business there?

Edited April 2, 2006 by ibycus

9.2k · April 2, 2006

I am in the process of getting a cache approved that is near a school. The initial response from the reviewer was that it was too near school property. I've searched through the forums and found a few threads about this, but my question is, how close is too close?

The cache placement, which is the final of a multi, is in a green space adjacent to the school and is more than .11 miles from the building. I made it clear in the description that hunting the cache during school hours was a bad idea, since you would have to cross school property to get to it.

I have hunted other caches in the area that are much closer to schools than this, and I have always waited for an evening or weekend to hunt such caches.

Thoughts?

You have to cross school property to get to it? Sounds like trespassing, unless you have permission to be there.

April 2, 2006

I am in the process of getting a cache approved that is near a school. The initial response from the reviewer was that it was too near school property. I've searched through the forums and found a few threads about this, but my question is, how close is too close?

The cache placement, which is the final of a multi, is in a green space adjacent to the school and is more than .11 miles from the building. I made it clear in the description that hunting the cache during school hours was a bad idea, since you would have to cross school property to get to it.

I have hunted other caches in the area that are much closer to schools than this, and I have always waited for an evening or weekend to hunt such caches.

Thoughts?

Personally I would have started a new thread for this, rather than dig out an old one like this, came about an inch from replying to a message from 2003.

I don't *think* there are any hard and fast rules about how close is too close. My guess is that the reviewer is twigging on your 'don't hunt in school hours' comment. If you feel the need to say that, then maybe it *is* too close.

So, would hunting it in school hours cause alarm? If yes, then you are too close to the school. If no, then I think you are far enough.

Maybe take a few pictures from the cache site, looking back towards the school, and a few from the school looking towards the cache site. Give the reviewer an idea of exactly what the area is like at 'ground level'. Just a thought anyways...

**edit** just reread what you wrote... So you have to cross school property to get to it??? No I probably wouldn't hide anything there. Are you even allowed on school property without having official business there?

The reason I posted the non-school hours info, is that the only way to get to the green space is to cross school grounds. Many people bring their dogs there in the evenings and walk through the green space after hours, but when school is in session, the students have it to themselves. When I was a student in the school, 30 years ago, we built a nature trail around the school and through this space. It was created with the expectation that it would be used by the community and not just the school.

2.1k · April 2, 2006

Then I'd go take some pictures, maybe get official 'ok' from the school as well as far as being there after school hours goes.

3.8k · April 2, 2006

The cache placement, which is the final of a multi, is in a green space adjacent to the school and is more than .11 miles from the building. I made it clear in the description that hunting the cache during school hours was a bad idea, since you would have to cross school property to get to it.

I think you answered your own question. Just because you can get to the area as "free space", doesn't mean you should put a cache there. I'd find another spot.

April 2, 2006

I'd say no, even if all the permissions were to be granted, the traffic of cachers visiting a school site could normalise the presence of oddly behaved strangers and provide camoflage in which others (and we all know who we're talking about) could hide.

3.9k · April 3, 2006

I did this one not too long ago Salmon. The only logical place to park is in the school lot. The only feasible way to get to the cache is through the school. I did feel a little creepy walking through the school, even though it was the evening of a school holiday. Had I been with my kids, I would have felt better. The cache description does indicate that it is an evening cache. It was a nice cache in a great location. I think as long as the description indicates that traversing a school ground is required and the best time is during non-school hours, it should be allowable. I don't think caches should be allowed on actual developed school grounds (school meaning pre-school thru 12). In the case of this cache it wasn't.

EEEWWWW! I would have filed an SBA on this cache immediately!

3.8k · April 3, 2006

EEEWWWW! I would have filed an SBA on this cache immediately!

Good to have you 'round, Vinny.

10.2k · April 3, 2006

I did this one not too long ago Salmon. The only logical place to park is in the school lot. The only feasible way to get to the cache is through the school. I did feel a little creepy walking through the school, even though it was the evening of a school holiday. Had I been with my kids, I would have felt better. The cache description does indicate that it is an evening cache. It was a nice cache in a great location. I think as long as the description indicates that traversing a school ground is required and the best time is during non-school hours, it should be allowable. I don't think caches should be allowed on actual developed school grounds (school meaning pre-school thru 12). In the case of this cache it wasn't.

EEEWWWW! I would have filed an SBA on this cache immediately!

Personally, I would have posted an SBA just on the grounds of it being Gladware (bad idea), and wrapped in a plastic garbage bag (even worse idea).

April 3, 2006

I found a bunch of caches at Lakehead University (Thunder Bay, Ontario) and they were great. However the cache owner's user name is "Lakehead Geo Teachers" so I figure they had no trouble with authority. It is actually a little bit disappointing that there aren't more universities with caches on campus, I understand the safety issue, but as a student it would be really fun.

April 3, 2006

No debate or questioning needed on this issue.

COLLEGES: No problem as long as you have permission

HIGH SCHOOLS: NO, NO, NO, NO

MIDDLE SCHOOLS: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

GRADE SCHOOLS: Don't even think about it!

Put yourself in the body in the seeker. Would'nt you feel like you are are just on verge of getting arrested? Might be a thrill for some but not for me. I have attempted caches within eyesight of a school and felt very pressured, very wrong and just wanted to get the hell out of there.

Is that what you are trying gain with the cache?

Edited April 3, 2006 by RoyalRed

April 3, 2006

No debate or questioning needed on this issue.

COLLEGES: No problem as long as you have permission

HIGH SCHOOLS: NO, NO, NO, NO

MIDDLE SCHOOLS: NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO

GRADE SCHOOLS: Don't even think about it!

Put yourself in the body in the seeker. Would'nt you feel like you are are just on verge of getting arrested? Might be a thrill for some but not for me. I have attempted caches within eyesight of a school and felt very pressured, very wrong and just wanted to get the hell out of there.

Is that what you are trying gain with the cache?

Not at all. The area in question is a large multi-use green space. There is no question that during school hours the cache will be inaccessible, but on off hours this is a great spot. Here is photo of the area. The green space starts about a tenth of a mile from the school and extends another tenth of a mile west. I have contacted the principal to see what she has to say, but as I have pointed out, I have hunted other caches in this area that are MUCH closer to schools than this, some of which require crossing school grounds to get to them.

24.7k · April 3, 2006

I am in the process of getting a cache approved that is near a school. The initial response from the reviewer was that it was too near school property. I've searched through the forums and found a few threads about this, but my question is, how close is too close?

The cache placement, which is the final of a multi, is in a green space adjacent to the school and is more than .11 miles from the building. I made it clear in the description that hunting the cache during school hours was a bad idea, since you would have to cross school property to get to it.

I have hunted other caches in the area that are much closer to schools than this, and I have always waited for an evening or weekend to hunt such caches.

Thoughts?

The proximity is fine as is the location near a school property. The issue is having to cross school property to get to the cache. Ignoring anything else that's going to make the cache dissapear quickly.

April 3, 2006

Personally I think putting caches near schools is just asking for trouble. I'd probably not do it, were I in your area. I definately wouldn't feel right about it.

As it is, the graveyard caches are ones I barely feel comfortable doing. Must be real nice when someone's having a funeral and a group of people are running around with gps's. But this is another ball of wax I guess.

9.1k · April 3, 2006

.. but as I have pointed out, I have hunted other caches in this area that are MUCH closer to schools than this, some of which require crossing school grounds to get to them.

You keep saying this, so I need to remind you that the guideline regarding caches at elementary and secondary schools was just added in February 2005. Any caches on or near school grounds that you may have found should fit into one of the following categories:

The cache was hidden before February 2005, and is thus "grandfathered." The many bomb squad callouts and security incidents at such caches resulted in the guideline change.
The cache was placed with very clear evidence of permission from the school district (not the assistant soccer coach or the janitor).
The reviewer overlooked the fact that the cache was near a school (maps aren't always accurate, and neither are cache owners), or decided that it wasn't "too close."

April 3, 2006

.. but as I have pointed out, I have hunted other caches in this area that are MUCH closer to schools than this, some of which require crossing school grounds to get to them.

You keep saying this, so I need to remind you that the guideline regarding caches at elementary and secondary schools was just added in February 2005. Any caches on or near school grounds that you may have found should fit into one of the following categories:

The cache was hidden before February 2005, and is thus "grandfathered." The many bomb squad callouts and security incidents at such caches resulted in the guideline change.

The cache was placed with very clear evidence of permission from the school district (not the assistant soccer coach or the janitor).

The reviewer overlooked the fact that the cache was near a school (maps aren't always accurate, and neither are cache owners), or decided that it wasn't "too close."

So, back to my original question... how close is too close? Or what distance is required for an adequate buffer zone?

24.7k · April 3, 2006

...

So, back to my original question... how close is too close? Or what distance is required for an adequate buffer zone?

Best answer. "It depends".

In your case having to walk across school property to get to the cache is a deal breaker. Your cache will be found by the kids because that's what they do. They are good at it.

9.1k · April 3, 2006

So, back to my original question... how close is too close? Or what distance is required for an adequate buffer zone?

It depends on the particular area, its terrain, setting/surroundings, lines of sight, property ownership and a number of other variables. There is no hard and fast rule besides what you see in the guidelines. I think that's good.

3k · April 3, 2006

The short answer is Permision, Permision, Permision. The new (Feb06?) cache placement rules say no to "on school property" (without express permission) although we've been to several put there by attending students with teacher permission.

Personally, I would hesitate to place anywhere within "throwing distance" of school grounds. So basically avoid direct line-of-site and you should be fine. Many public parks border school grounds and seem to work out fine. The end result should be cachers finding a cache and never being hassled in the process. There are just too many good places to hide a cache to run the risk of causing trouble in your community.

We immediately archived our Hey Mr. Wilson cache in a setup exactly as you are describing for the just the reasons you're concerned about. Our reviewer raised the red flag for what you're describing so maybe that's a good place to start. Ask your reviewer to give you some feedback. It's going to have to make review regardless.

April 3, 2006

The short answer is Permision, Permision, Permision. The new (Feb06?) cache placement rules say no to "on school property" (without express permission) although we've been to several put there by attending students with teacher permission.

Personally, I would hesitate to place anywhere within "throwing distance" of school grounds. So basically avoid direct line-of-site and you should be fine. Many public parks border school grounds and seem to work out fine. The end result should be cachers finding a cache and never being hassled in the process. There are just too many good places to hide a cache to run the risk of causing trouble in your community.

We immediately archived our Hey Mr. Wilson cache in a setup exactly as you are describing for the just the reasons you're concerned about. Our reviewer raised the red flag for what you're describing so maybe that's a good place to start. Ask your reviewer to give you some feedback. It's going to have to make review regardless.

Thanks to all for all of the excellent suggestions and comments. Unless I am able to obtain permission of the Principal, I will likely try to move the cache to the far side of the green space, more than a quarter mile away, or to another nearby park.

Schoolground Cache?????

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