GPS And Rechargables--a Big No-no???

January 10, 2004

That's one of the things I love about this site... the people are educated enough to have serious discussions on elements and base/alkaline metals.

Fascinating discussion!

January 10, 2004

ok, ill give you gold, but isnt native silver so rare that it not mined as a mineral source and native terrestrial iron cosidered so rare that it is often considered a product of meteorite hits?

I've never looked for silver, other than the processed kind in the form of coins. Found a few nice pieces this weekend. Not really that old (1964), but they look nearly mint for being down in the dirt close to 40 years.

Terrestrial iron is by defintion of the earth, as opposed to metorites which are from non-earth sources. I'm not sure which is more common, other than to say many people seem to prefer collect the iron meteorites. Terrestrial iron just doesn't seem to have that romantic "impact".

Are you sure you're not thinking of the alkaline/alkali metals rather than the transitions? Those are metals so reactive they they are rarely found free in nature.

George

by calling it native terrestrial iron im probably stretching it, many geophysicists dont accept the theory that native iron can infact be truly terrestrial in origin and as you mentioned come from meteors. as for silver one of the few productive deposits known to man that are suspected to contain native silver is located in the lower canadian sheild (the others are found in chile and germany), but still so rare that mining for it is almost nonexistant. when looking for colour etc. you normally look for oxides that are silver rich, as you would for copper, iron pyrite etc.

the coins youve seen are probably not 100% silver, rather they probably are alloys containing 1-5% zinc, tin, nickel etc to help prevent oxidation.

the alkali metals are a different story completely. these metals (lithium. potassium, cesium etc never occur in native form as they are very reactive, infact cesium would react violently with the moisture in the air we breath. the alkali metals are generally found in salts. the alkali metals are those which would have been used in high school chemistry class for demonstration by dropping a small samll in water for a smoke/fire show (usually sodium and potassium).

the transition metals in general form reactive ions that oxidize readily with the air and other acids in the earth. most of the ores we mine are oxides that must be processed to free the desired element.

January 11, 2004

I have a similar problem sometimes when I put NIMH in my Garmin Rino. Turns out the problem is the NIMH batteries are EVER SO SLIGHTLY smaller so may not ensure tight contact with the terminal and spring. Sometimes the problem will manifest itself by the unit shutting off unexpectedly, and other times by the batter meter just dropping to Low...before bouncing back to full.
Same problem for me with the Garmin V and NiMh batteries. Alkaline and lithium (my preference) batteries fit snugly with no problems.

DOH! Oh boy do I feel stupid. Seems I read a similar post months back with someone stating that Duracell seemed to fit more snugly than Energizer. Unfortunately with my Energizer-sized brain it didn't click. Now I can't wait to go out and try the rechargeables again. Thanks for all the input from you fine folks. I might have learned something positive here. If it works, I'll post and let you know. Thanks again.

January 11, 2004

Thanks to input from GeckoGeek, HartClimbs and bigeddy on the garmin NiMh battery problem with my Vista. I have definitely determined that the fit is not tight and hope to resolve the problem soon. Sometimes I wonder why I come to these forums and then good advice like this justifies my visits. Thanks again!

January 11, 2004

Easy fix. Pull out the springs or tabs in the battery compartment slightly. That will ensure a tighter fit.

January 11, 2004

I have a similar problem sometimes when I put NIMH in my Garmin Rino. Turns out the problem is the NIMH batteries are EVER SO SLIGHTLY smaller so may not ensure tight contact with the terminal and spring. Sometimes the problem will manifest itself by the unit shutting off unexpectedly, and other times by the batter meter just dropping to Low...before bouncing back to full.
Same problem for me with the Garmin V and NiMh batteries. Alkaline and lithium (my preference) batteries fit snugly with no problems.

DOH! Oh boy do I feel stupid. Seems I read a similar post months back with someone stating that Duracell seemed to fit more snugly than Energizer. Unfortunately with my Energizer-sized brain it didn't click. Now I can't wait to go out and try the rechargeables again. Thanks for all the input from you fine folks. I might have learned something positive here. If it works, I'll post and let you know. Thanks again.

ive noticed this with 'regular' batteries and alkalines but never noticed any difference between the alkaline brands. to be fair though i only buy energizer or kodak so maybe thay are the same. maybe we could post the size of batteries when measured accurately. ill go first:

rayovac industrial plus

14.00mm diameter and 50.25mm length

energizer

14.10mm diameter and 50.55mm length

for comparision some cheap mercury based batteries:

chateau

13.55mm diameter and 50.00mm length

superdeer (appears to be duracell clone)

13.50mm diameter and 50.10mm length

anyway my verniers calipers are metalic, so be sure to insulate them from the battery poles when measuring (i used the same piece of paper).

also my wife works at lasenza (similar to victoria secrets) and she brought home several boxes of feminine supplies. so now i keep my batteries in a plastic tampoon case. these cases hold either 3 or 6 batteries depending on the type (ob or tampax if anyone really wanted to know) and fit quite nicely into a pocket for extra long trips afield.

January 11, 2004

I can just see the face of someone finding one of those after it fell out of your pocket! They are wondering...what in the heck is a spare tampon doing out in the middle of the woods?

January 11, 2004

Easy answer.

January 12, 2004

[
I have a similar problem sometimes when I put NIMH in my Garmin Rino. Turns out the problem is the NIMH batteries are EVER SO SLIGHTLY smaller so may not ensure tight contact with the terminal and spring. Sometimes the problem will manifest itself by the unit shutting off unexpectedly, and other times by the batter meter just dropping to Low...before bouncing back to full.
Same problem for me with the Garmin V and NiMh batteries. Alkaline and lithium (my preference) batteries fit snugly with no problems.

PROBLEM SOLVED!

I placed my NiMh batteries in the Vista last night after stretching springs slightly and padding with a thin piece of neoprene. Turned the unit on and made sure it got a lock, then left it (on large window pane inside of house). Returned home late this afternoon to find it had drained the batteries as expected. Downloaded the track log to check dates and times and low and behold the NiMh's lasted 12 hours 41 minutes (this was on 1600 mah batteries). I am thrilled that, with the help of several posters here, now I use NiMh's again. Too bad that I haven't attempted to look indepth at this problem in the past as I am sure it has cost me $$$ in alkalines.

THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO LED ME DOWN THE PATH TO SUCCESS

January 21, 2004

BEST BUY: <_<

Thanks to SandRaven for your post on where you get your batteries. You just saved me a lot of time and money. I did do my do diligence on this one though. Thomas Distributing http://thomasdistributing.com does have the best selection and prices. I just bought the MAHA brand C401FS charger with car adapter and 8 Powerex 2200 mAH batteries http://thomasdistributing.com/mhc401fs_buy.htm. It looked like the best deal for my needs. I added an additional 8 batteries because I use AA's for my headlamp, digicam, GPS.

BEST BATTERY:

Which battery brand last the longest? This test shows that the Maha brand Powerex 2200 outlasted all other tested products. It lasted over three times longer than the best alkaline battery. http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM

ECO:

I get batteries at "no cost". My wife has a fixed budget and whenever I need some more AA's she picks up a pack or 48 at Costco for around $10. It's not about the money. I go through between 4-8 batteries a week. Every time I threw batteries into the trash I got a knot in my stomach. As I researched the rechargeable NiMH batteries I found that they are "completely" recyclable, unlike the very bad non-rechargeable alkaline.

COST:

According to the above referenced test the Maha 2200mAH batteries lasted about 10 hours on one charge. You can charge them at least 500 times (up to 1000 times). That equals 5,000 hours of use. I paid about $4 per battery. So for $4 I get 5,000 hours of use, having to only throw one battery away when it’s dead. The Costco Alkaline batteries cost about 5 cents each. The best rated alkaline battery in the test lasted about 3 hours. In order to get 5,000 hours of use from an alkaline I would need buy 1,666 batteries at a cost of around $83. I also would have thrown away 1,666 batteries into landfill, and I am only one person!

I paid $100 for sixteen 2200 mAH rechargeable batteries, which included a charger with DC cord. (I also got a free gift!) The equivalent in alkaline would have cost me $1,328 and I would have had to buy 26,656 batteries. The cheapest alkaline (Costco brand) costs ten times more than the highest rated (MAHA Powerex 2200) rechargeable NiMH battery. Even if there was no savings and it cost me a few bucks more I would buy the rechargables.

Rechargeables: Better for the environment, last longer, more convenient (don't have to change them as often), cost ten times less, and I won't have to worry about buying another battery for at least four years (up to eight years). IMHO rechargeable are the ONLY way to go for me.

January 21, 2004

I've been buying NiMH batteries from thomasdistributing.com for years, here are some of their current offerings.

Thank you, SandRaven! I picked up some batteries and a charger from them and so far I love 'em. Thanks again!

January 21, 2004

I paid $100 for sixteen 2200 mAH rechargeable batteries, which included a charger with DC cord. (I also got a free gift!) The equivalent in alkaline would have cost me $1,328 and I would have had to buy 26,656 batteries. The cheapest alkaline (Costco brand) costs ten times more than the highest rated (MAHA Powerex 2200) rechargeable NiMH battery. Even if there was no savings and it cost me a few bucks more I would buy the rechargables.

Not to nit-pick your analysis too much, but let's do a sanity check here.

You conclude that you would "have to buy 26,656 (disposable) batteries".

Let's assume you go through 8 batteries per week (as you stated). This means that supply of batteries should last you 3332 weeks, or about 64 years.

You also state that it would cost you $1,328 for this supply of batteries. Assuming constant-value dollars, this comes to about $20.75 per year.

Further sanity check from another angle...you say you use up to 8 batts per week, which comes out to 416 per year. At your cost of about 5 cents per battery, that's about $20.80 per year, but what's 5 cents between friends?

Now, you say you paid 100 bucks for your rechargables and charger. It seems to me it's going to take you about 5 years to recoup your investment.

You say you won't have to worry about buying another batt for at least 4 years. I'd say you better hope for 5 to break even. If you get to 8 years, that would mean you'd save 3 years of disposable usage, or about $63. That's *IF* you get to 8 years of usage.

Of course, you are saving landfill space. Let's assume an AA is a rectangular volume (kind of like assuming all cows are spherical) at the generous dimensions of 50mm x 15mm x 15 mm, or 11,250 cubic mm.

Take 11,250 times 26,656 to get about 300 million cubic mm. The cube root of this would be about 670 mm or about 2.2 feet. A box 2.2 x 2.2 x 2.2 feet will take up about 1/2 of my weekly garbage can pickup, but remember to spread this over 64 years.

These are just rough estimates, and who knows if I might have slipped a decimal point or two. Someone might want to double check my figures, because they do seem to be a lot smaller than I initially thought.

George

Edited January 21, 2004 by nincehelser

January 22, 2004

I guess the math can get away from one when we are talking about thousands of batteries. Let’s compare the cost of one rechargeable to the equivalent number of alkaline.

According to the “Great Battery Shootout!” the best-rated alkaline battery lasts 3.66 hours compared to the best rated rechargeable which lasts 10.10 hours. The rechargeable can be recharged between 500-1,000 times. We’ll take the average of 750 times. 750 times 10.10 equal 7,575 hours. To get 7,575 hours of use from alkaline batteries you would have to buy 2,070 batteries.

One rechargeable costs $3.50. Of course you need a recharging unit. Spreading the cost of a recharger over four batteries (typical recharger kits come with four batteries), you could add an additional $10 to the cost of the each battery, which brings it to $13.50 for 7,575 hours of use. One Costco brand alkaline cost 10 cents. 10 cents times 2,070 is $207. (Note: this is not the top rated alkaline per the test so they may end up costing more because they may not last as long.) You save $193.50 using rechargables. Alkalines cost fourteen times more than rechargables. :huh:

Like I said in my other post, it is not about money, although people like to justify their expenditures. Not only do you save almost $200 but you save putting 2,070 batteries worth of mercury and all of the other contaminates into landfills.

IMHO the only way for anyone who is economy or ecology minded is to go with rechargeables.

edited: spelling

Edited January 22, 2004 by Happy Gillmore

January 22, 2004

I guess the math can get away from one when we are talking about thousands of batteries. Let’s compare the cost of one rechargeable to the equivalent number of alkaline.

According to the “Great Battery Shootout!” the best-rated alkaline battery lasts 3.66 hours compared to the best rated rechargeable which lasts 10.10 hours. The rechargeable can be recharged between 500-1,000 times. We’ll take the average of 750 times. 750 times 10.10 equal 7,575 hours. To get 7,575 hours of use from alkaline batteries you would have to buy 2,070 batteries.

One rechargeable costs $3.50. Of course you need a recharging unit. Spreading the cost of a recharger over four batteries (typical recharger kits come with four batteries), you could add an additional $10 to the cost of the each battery, which brings it to $13.50 for 7,575 hours of use. One Costco brand alkaline cost 10 cents. 10 cents times 2,070 is $207. (Note: this is not the top rated alkaline per the test so they may end up costing more because they don’t last as long.) You save $193.50 using rechargables. Alkalines cost fourteen times more than rechargables.

Like I said in my other post, it is not about money, although people like to justify their expenditures. Not only do you save almost $200 but you save putting 2,070 batteries worth of mercury and all of the other contaminates into landfills.

IMHO the only way for anyone who is economy or ecology minded is to go with rechargeable.

The major flaw in your analysis is that your talking theoretical potentials, and not taking real-life usage into account. You have to consider your past usage patterns and try to predict what your future usage will probably be.

If you use 40 cents in batteries a week, it's going to take a long time to recover a $100 investement. It's as simple as that.

There's no mercury in modern AAs.

As far as I'm concerned, you could probably bury all the AAs I'll use in my lifetime with me in my coffin. I'll probably still have room to roll over.

George

January 22, 2004

There is no theorizing here. It is all based on real life battery tests and real life battery costs. It has nothing to do with what my usage might be. It is a one to one comparison so it works for everyone's usage.

The bottom line is alkalines cost fourteen times more and require over 2,000 batteries compared to one rechargable. That is all there is to it.

Now that you are educated to the facts if you want to continue using up natural resources to make 2,070 batteries that could be replaced with one battery, then turn around and throw away that resource, and you want to spend fourteen times more, than that is up to you. I for one choose not to.

2.4k · January 22, 2004

One thing everyone is forgetting to add in here is the cost of the electricity to recharge the batteries.......oh, and yeah I use rechargables. Most of the time recharging them costs ME nothing, because I keep the charger in my work van, let the boss pay for a couple cents of extra fuel :huh:

January 22, 2004

There is no theorizing here. It is all based on real life battery tests and real life battery costs. It has nothing to do with what my usage might be. It is a one to one comparison so it works for everyone's usage.

The bottom line is alkalines cost fourteen times more and require over 2,000 batteries compared to one rechargable. That is all there is to it.

Now that you are educated to the facts if you want to continue using up natural resources to make 2,070 batteries that could be replaced with one battery, then turn around and throw away that resource, and you want to spend fourteen times more, than that is up to you. I for one choose not to.

Sorry. One size doesn't fit all. Your mileage may vary.

Rechargables have their place in certain applications, but they are not economical for everyone and all uses. They have no real advantage as far as the environment is concerned, and in some cases they might actually be worse.

All I can say is do the *CORRECT* math, study the science, and look at the engineering. There is no moral superiority in spending more money than you have to.

Claiming disposable alkalines cost 14 times more than one rechargable, and that one rechargable is equivalent to 2000 disposables isn't realistic and is downright misleading.

George

January 22, 2004

One thing everyone is forgetting to add in here is the cost of the electricity to recharge the batteries.......oh, and yeah I use rechargables. Most of the time recharging them costs ME nothing, because I keep the charger in my work van, let the boss pay for a couple cents of extra fuel

Yep. I'd really like to see someone do a breakdown of that actual cost.

Many rechargers I've seen are drawing power even if they aren't being used...at least the transformers are warm so some energy is being lost. I've heard some claims that the ubiquitous transformers (i.e. wall warts and similar devices) are "electrical vampires" and are a significant waste of resources. I'm not sure I buy that claim, but I haven't been motivated enough to check it out for myself.

They also have another indirect cost in that they heat the room around them, requiring more air conditioning. Then you have to consider that rechargables self-discharge relatively quickly, further compounding the actual energy loss.

George

Edited January 22, 2004 by nincehelser

January 22, 2004

There is no theorizing here. It is all based on real life battery tests and real life battery costs. It has nothing to do with what my usage might be. It is a one to one comparison so it works for everyone's usage.

The bottom line is alkalines cost fourteen times more and require over 2,000 batteries compared to one rechargable. That is all there is to it.

Now that you are educated to the facts if you want to continue using up natural resources to make 2,070 batteries that could be replaced with one battery, then turn around and throw away that resource, and you want to spend fourteen times more, than that is up to you. I for one choose not to.

Sorry. One size doesn't fit all. Your mileage may vary.

Rechargables have their place in certain applications, but they are not economical for everyone and all uses. They have no real advantage as far as the environment is concerned, and in some cases they might actually be worse.

All I can say is do the *CORRECT* math, study the science, and look at the engineering. There is no moral superiority in spending more money than you have to.

Claiming disposable alkalines cost 14 times more than one rechargable, and that one rechargable is equivalent to 2000 disposables isn't realistic and is downright misleading.

George

Don't forget about this quote: "the best-rated alkaline battery lasts 3.66 hours compared to the best rated rechargeable which lasts 10.10 hours. " That is the most untrue statement, I have ever read. For a digital camera, rechagables last longer than alkaline. For a GPS, alkalines will win everytime. In 10 degree weather alkalines will win everytime. Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but alkaline batteries are ~2800 maH. Having said all this, I tend to use rechargeables for convenience.

Edited January 22, 2004 by Volwrath

January 25, 2004

I have a Garmin GPS V and I've noticed that the NiMH batteries doesn't last near as long as the alkaline battery, has anyone else noticed this problem??

Thanks

Jim W

January 25, 2004

Rechargables are all I use in my eTrex.

9.5k · January 26, 2004

I have a Garmin GPS V and I've noticed that the NiMH batteries doesn't last near as long as the alkaline battery, has anyone else noticed this problem??

Thanks

Jim W

It really depends on your NiMH mAh rating. You will want to get something that is 2000 mAh or greater. I get between 9-10 hours straight use time on my MeriPlat with 2x2100 mAh. That's about how much time I will get with standard alkalines.

February 2, 2004

I have been trying to "cycle" my new rechargeable Maha 2200 batteries by turning on my GPSr light on high and letting it run. I can usually get about 10 hours with no light and about 2 hours with light on alkalines. With the new 2200 rechargeables on 2/3 charge with the light on high the GPSr is running 10 hours plus.

I am also getting considerable better satalite locking. Just ask anyone who has been caching with me and trying to beat me to the cache.

I have the new batteries on my Motorola FRS radio lasts about 8 hours with the rechargeable battery pack that came with it. I put in the new MAHA 2200's in the blue colored radio and left the original (fully charged) battery pack in the red radio. The red radio beeped at us a couple of times and then shut down right at 8 hours of constant use. It has now been 37 1/2 hours since I put in the MAHA's and the blue radio is still running. It has just started to beep with the low battery signal.

I don't have any fancy techno stats, just real field testing. These MAHA 2200 on 2/3 charge are nothing short of awesome. BTW, in all of this testing I haven't had to throw away a single battery. Can't say that with over 200 hours of combined usage on alkalines.

2.4k · February 3, 2004

Happy, you won't be happy much longer. NiMH batteries should NOT be run to full discharge. They aren't NiCd batteries, and don't work the same way, and don't take 'memory' like NiCds. NiMH should be recharged as often as possible, and kept as fully charged as practical. Complete discharging will reduce battery life. You cannot 'condition' them in a good say, because they are not NiCd, but you can ruin them.

February 4, 2004

From an environmental standpoint, rechargable batteries are still probably a better way to go, even considering the fact that you have to use electricity to charge them. Economy of scale would indicate that getting the juice from the power plant is probably one of the least polluting ways to produce power. Yes, we can manufacture alkaline batteries, but all of that manufacturing uses energy and materials which aren't being used as much for rechargables (you only manufacture a rechargable once, and it gives you equivalent power to at least 500 alkalines which have to be manufactured). But, rechargeables cost more, and that's what throws it all off. Good luck trying to figure out the environmenbtal impact of your hourly wage.

Landfill SPACE is not an issue. The chemicals that leach into the landfill are probably more so, but I don't have any reliable information on this, and since most parties discussing this have an agenda, it's difficult to find.

I've seen nincehelser try and "beat down" the rechargable advocates every time this discussion comes up, and I've seen the advocates berate him back just as vociferously. My personal feeling is, it's like arguing about whether Christianity or Islam is the right religion. People are going to believe what they want to believe, and if that makes them feel better, than by all means go ahead and do it. I think the advantages of one over the other at this point are fairly negligable.

Personally, I use rechargeables. It makes me feel better.

Edited February 4, 2004 by Indiana Cojones

February 4, 2004

Happy, you won't be happy much longer. NiMH batteries should NOT be run to full discharge. They aren't NiCd batteries, and don't work the same way, and don't take 'memory' like NiCds. NiMH should be recharged as often as possible, and kept as fully charged as practical. Complete discharging will reduce battery life. You cannot 'condition' them in a good say, because they are not NiCd, but you can ruin them.

Question #22: Will it hurt the NiMH batteries to run the voltage down to 0 volts? I accidentally left the radio on and ran them down to nothing. They seemed to charge ok although is there any capacity loss when this happens? - Bill

Answer #22: Bill - Usually no capacity loss occurs, but this could possibly damage the batteries.. There is the danger of causing the batteries to reverse voltage, and then they will no longer accept a charge. Since you were able to get them to accept a charge, you may be okay.

Also it is also best to recharge the batteries before they are totally dead. This will extend their useful life considerably.

(From the Thomas Distributing FAQ)

February 4, 2004

I recently posted some battery runtime figures for several different brands of NiMH batteries on the Alkaline/Rechargable thread. From the results I could not see any major differences between batteries that were nearly 2 years old vs. brand new. We routinely run the GPS units until they go offline. In fact the longer running Duracell 2050s had been in use for about 2 months (4 or 5 cycles) vs. the second set which were brand new out of the package. As far as running the cells completely dead it won’t happen. At least with Garmin GPRs (and all other brands I would bet). The GPS will shut off right around the end of the cells useful capacity. As such it would be virtually impossible to reverse polarize one of the cells in the group or completely discharge the cells. Used in a flashlight or similar devices which do not shut down then running the cells completely flat could pose a problem… but in a GPS, I don’t think so. As far as having to dispose of any of the NiMH batteries it has only happend once and ot wasn't the batteries fault. We had just finished a cache and the battery door somehow popped open as I was getting into the car. At the next cache I found my batteries missing so off we go back to look and there they were. I had driven over them but they still worked OK... they just wouldn't fit in the GPS anymore. RIP

2.4k · February 4, 2004

I agree that most GPS units will shut down before the batteries are completely dead, but Happy was talking about running them in other equipment to deliberately deplete them to zero. Not a good idea.

Many rechargers I've seen are drawing power even if they aren't being used...at least the transformers are warm so some energy is being lost.

Do you really leave the charger plugged in all the time, even when not charging batteries? That seems bizarre to me, but maybe I'm just easily amazed. I only plug my charger into the wall when I have batteries to charge, then unplug it. I need to carry it with me on the road anyway, so I tend to keep it packed up most of the time when not in use. NiMH chargers may be sophisticated enough to not draw power when no batteries are in the unit, but I don't know whether that's the case. Wall warts certainly draw a little current when they're plugged in, because they're just passive transformers. Your TV, VCR, and almost every other electrical appliance does this also. So does your car stereo and clock. It's a very tiny amount, though it does add up when you consider almost every home in the country has them.

February 4, 2004

Excellent thread! Thanks for all the great info and debate. Not to get too far off track, but this

I've never looked for silver, other than the processed kind in the form of coins. Found a few nice pieces this weekend. Not really that old (1964), but they look nearly mint for being down in the dirt close to 40 years.

caught my eye. Nincehelser, I'm guessing there's more to finding old coins then going out in my backyard with a shovel. It sounds like fun. Where can I learn more?

February 4, 2004

Agreed. Running rechargables down to dead is pretty hard on the battery. Under those conditions any imbalance between cells will try to reverse polarize the weaker of the set. How many times an RP cell can recover I don't know. To many variables to deal with. I do know that it has been so long since we have purchased Alkalines that it is real jolt to see how much they cost.

1.4k · February 4, 2004

As such it would be virtually impossible to reverse polarize one of the cells in the group or completely discharge the cells.

Especially since most GPSrs use 2 or at most 4 cells. Having a large number of cells can cover up a problem with just one.

Do you really leave the charger plugged in all the time, even when not charging batteries? That seems bizarre to me, but maybe I'm just easily amazed.

Call me lazy. Unless I have a need to take the charger somewhere or use the plug for something else, I leave it left plugged in after my last use. So I'm wasteful. That's the least of my faults.

1.2k · February 4, 2004

I am also getting considerable better satalite locking.

Better than what? Someone in the same place, same weather, same GPS, etc., exept with alkalines?

Is there a connection between battery power and performance QUALITY? I would have assumed that battery power is simply used as needed, until the batteres are depleted.

And in this context, I'd also like to ask: what is the battery saver function? I always have it ON,, as that seemed the natual thing to do. But does it cost me somethign in performance, functionality, or something else? If not, why is turning it OFF an option at all?

1.2k · February 4, 2004

Reading all these comments, I think I should make the switch from Alkaline to NiMH as well. Having made that decision, I ask myself whether it is worth buying a really good one, such as this one, which sells together with 4 Sanyo 2300 batteries for $42 including shipping, or whether it makes more sense to go with a cheaper model, such as this one from e-bay...

February 4, 2004

I would suggest a good one like THIS

Edited February 4, 2004 by Volwrath

5.3k · February 4, 2004

I'd endorse Volwrath's suggestion. I think it's false economy to scrimp on the charger; when you consider how much you save in battery costs over the life of the charger, its cost is trivial.

The only time a cheap charger might make sense is if you go through batteries very slowly (anybody here fit in that category? )

1.4k · February 4, 2004

Reading all these comments, I think I should make the switch from Alkaline to NiMH as well.

I recommend Maha/POWEREX. But I don't know the best place to get a good price on that. Hopefully others have some suggestions.

9.5k · February 4, 2004

Batteryspace.com has great prices for bulk purchase of rechargeable batteries (now up to 2250MaH) and multi-use chargers (home and car). Edited February 4, 2004 by TotemLake

2.4k · February 5, 2004

what is the battery saver function?

If you Read The Fine Manual (Garmin) you'll find that battery saver mode reduces the rate of position updates. In normal mode, your position is updated from the satellites every second. In battery saver mode, it is updated much less often. I don't have the exact rate handy, but it's probably available on the Garmin website, if you want to search for it.

Edited February 5, 2004 by NightPilot

1.2k · February 5, 2004

I would suggest a good one like THIS

Thanks, Volwrath and everyone else, I am increasingly convinced to invest in quality. Most of you recommend the Maha Powerex. But is there anyone who has tried the Lightning Pack 4000N? It appears to be an excellent one as well, and comes without cables and converters. And I do not intend to use it in my car anyway (I already have to toggle between cell phone and GPS, that's enough!)

February 5, 2004

Many rechargers I've seen are drawing power even if they aren't being used...at least the transformers are warm so some energy is being lost.
Do you really leave the charger plugged in all the time, even when not charging batteries?

I was referring to rechargers in general. Like for my PDA or electric toothbrush.

I guess you could make a habit of unplugging them all the time when they're not needed, but that's not always practical...especially if you have to move the couch to get to the outlet.

George

February 6, 2004

For what it's worth, here's my two cents...

Buying disposable batteries is so... so eighties! Can you really walk along a nice stream or swim in a beautiful lake or sit at the ocean shore and THEN throw away something like a battery?

No one would toss a car battery out in the middle of lake, would they? So why do it on a smaller scale? : )

We can bury it from sight, but it all winds up leaching into our lakes, streams and groundwater. If this sounds yummy to you, drop a AA battery into a glass of water, wait a week and then see how you feel about drinking it. We have to think about each other and our children, not about how long a battery might last or if you have to take three seconds out of your day to put a set of batteries in a charger.

There are currently available (in your local store) NiMH batteries that will last three times longer in a GPS than a set of Alkalines. GPS units, PDA's and digital cameras are all high drain devices, perfectly suited for MiMH rechargeables. Such batteries are readily made and available from Energizer, Rayovac and have mAh ratings as high as 2200. (The higher the rating, the longer they 'last' - meaning, produce a device-usable amount of current.) Alkalines are at 1.5 volts out of the package but very quickly drop down to 1.2 volts (Just like the NiMH) but drop even further down at a much quicker rate than a good set of NiMH batteries. Hence, why they're actually recommended over alkalines for high drain devices.

Rayovac just came out with a new system - A set of four AA batteries and a home/car charger that recharges them in fifteen minutes for only thirty bucks! Buy two sets of batteries and you'll always be ready, even if you don't have fifteen minutes. After that, as in most chargers, you can leave them in and get a 'trickle charge' which keeps them at 100% until you need them... at almost zero cost.

I currently use a mated four AA and AAA charger with 2100 mAh Energizer rechargeables and have used rechargeables for years and years. Everything from flashlights, CD players, my GPS unit, etc etc. My up time is just as good (when it's not flat out BETTER) than a set of throw away alkalines. I can reasonably expect to save several hundred dollars in final costs (over regular batteries) and also save YOU and ME from drinking and eating my batteries. : )

I have never, not ONCE, damaged anything by using rechargeables. Think about your $300.00 cell phone, and then think about what it uses for a kind of battery, along with your $1500.00 laptop.

Finally, when the rechargeable batteries have finally gotten to their end-days, (three or four years for most people) you can turn around and recycle them, unlike a disposable. Radio Shack will even take them to be recycled.

Ask yourself again. Do you still think rechargeable batteries are expensive? Ask yourself how many trips to the battery store you saved... How much money you saved in gas... How much you saved in batteries... And finally ask yourself... 'What's NOT in my drinking water because of me?'

: )

February 6, 2004

Ask yourself again. Do you still think rechargeable batteries are expensive? Ask yourself how many trips to the battery store you saved... How much money you saved in gas... How much you saved in batteries... And finally ask yourself... 'What's NOT in my drinking water because of me?'

: )

Nice emotional appeal.

However, a GPS isn't what I'd consider a "high-drain device". It does not even come close to comparing to a digital camera or high-end PDA.

How many trips have I saved to the battery store? I get them at my grocery store, or a lot of other places I happen to be. I think I've only been to a true "battery" store once in my life.

I didn't save anything in gasoline, because I was in there anyway.

As for drinking water...well...if I soaked a bananna peel in a glass of water for a week, I don't think I'd want to drink that, either. I wonder how much gas I've wasted driving to the store to buy banannas?

And what about you folks with dogs and cats. Do I really want *THAT* in my drinking water? I'm sure many geocachers have unwittingly caused more water pollution with their pets than they ever have (or will) with disposable batteries.

Rechargables have their place and application, but they aren't a cure-all for every situation. They certainly aren't going to save the environment.

George

Edited February 6, 2004 by nincehelser

April 20, 2004

BEST BUY:
Thanks to SandRaven for your post on where you get your batteries. You just saved me a lot of time and money. I did do my do diligence on this one though. Thomas Distributing http://thomasdistributing.com does have the best selection and prices. I just bought the MAHA brand C401FS charger with car adapter and 8 Powerex 2200 mAH batteries http://thomasdistributing.com/mhc401fs_buy.htm. It looked like the best deal for my needs. I added an additional 8 batteries because I use AA's for my headlamp, digicam, GPS.

BEST BATTERY:

Which battery brand last the longest? This test shows that the Maha brand Powerex 2200 outlasted all other tested products. It lasted over three times longer than the best alkaline battery. http://www.imaging-resource.com/ACCS/BATTS/BATTS.HTM

ECO:

I get batteries at "no cost". My wife has a fixed budget and whenever I need some more AA's she picks up a pack or 48 at Costco for around $10. It's not about the money. I go through between 4-8 batteries a week. Every time I threw batteries into the trash I got a knot in my stomach. As I researched the rechargeable NiMH batteries I found that they are "completely" recyclable, unlike the very bad non-rechargeable alkaline.

COST:

According to the above referenced test the Maha 2200mAH batteries lasted about 10 hours on one charge. You can charge them at least 500 times (up to 1000 times). That equals 5,000 hours of use. I paid about $4 per battery. So for $4 I get 5,000 hours of use, having to only throw one battery away when it’s dead. The Costco Alkaline batteries cost about 5 cents each. The best rated alkaline battery in the test lasted about 3 hours. In order to get 5,000 hours of use from an alkaline I would need buy 1,666 batteries at a cost of around $83. I also would have thrown away 1,666 batteries into landfill, and I am only one person!

I paid $100 for sixteen 2200 mAH rechargeable batteries, which included a charger with DC cord. (I also got a free gift!) The equivalent in alkaline would have cost me $1,328 and I would have had to buy 26,656 batteries. The cheapest alkaline (Costco brand) costs ten times more than the highest rated (MAHA Powerex 2200) rechargeable NiMH battery. Even if there was no savings and it cost me a few bucks more I would buy the rechargables.

Rechargeables: Better for the environment, last longer, more convenient (don't have to change them as often), cost ten times less, and I won't have to worry about buying another battery for at least four years (up to eight years). IMHO rechargeable are the ONLY way to go for me.

awesome post Happy..thanks for doing the grunt work...let th eshopping spree continue:)

April 21, 2004

For me the biggest factor in using rechargeable batteries is the fact every time I walk out the door I know I have a full 12-14 hours to use in my Meridian. With alkaline batteries I was always using batteries with partial charges. When a battery got about 70% used it would go in the trash so my savings using rechargeable batteries is even greater than the previous figures would indicate.

Just for the record I use the cheap charger (ch-p1000) sold by and it gives a very good full charge and does not heat the battery up too much. The cost of the charger after factoring in the batteries is almost nothing.

April 21, 2004

I recently bought a set of Lenmar 2300 ma Nimh batteries at Fry's electronics for $29 or maybe $39. I got 4 batteries and a ONE hour charger plas ac and dc adaptors. They are great!! They last forever (almost) and charge so fast it's unbelievable. I highly recommend them and say what you will about Fry's but it's hard to beat their prices.

GPS And Rechargables--a Big No-no???

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