Gentlemen Prefer Virts. Or Do They?

1.3k · December 20, 2003

The object of this thread is to try to see how many people would rather find a virtual cache, or a physical cache at the exact same location. Before repying, ask yourself, "Would this virt I just found have been more enjoyable if I had to find a container at the end, and sign in?"

Please don't argue about the merits of virts vs. Traitional caches. There are already many such threads. This one is only asking one simple question. If all things were equal, would you rather verify your find by email, or signing a logbook after finding a physical container.

There is a distinct difference between the two games. One involves finding a hidden object, the other involves finding clues to verify your presence at a given location.

Which do you enjoy more?

December 20, 2003

I'll take a traditional with a log book over a virt any day.

1.4k · December 20, 2003

Signing a logbook after finding a physical container.

1.1k · December 20, 2003

If all things were equal, would you rather verify your find by email, or signing a logbook after finding a physical container.

Have to define 'all things equal' for me. Geography is the deciding factor for me. If I want to tour a downtown area or historical site I would prefer virtuals. Give me a good size park, Natioanl Forest etc. I'd much rather have a big beefy ammo can traditional.

1.7k · December 20, 2003

This past summer we made a coast to coast round trip finding caches when we could. I love interesting virtuals. They make the trip more interesting. However on a trip logging them can be a pain. You never know when you will be able to get internet access. Most of the rest stop type traditinal caches are easy to find and easy to log, but not all that interesting. I like and do both. I even enjoy looking for a "yellow Jeep" locationless cache. Dick, W7WT

December 20, 2003

There is a distinct difference between the two games. One involves finding a hidden object, the other involves finding clues to verify your presence at a given location.

Actually, a well done physical multi gives you the oppurtunity to do both.

With that said, I prefer a logbbook. Isn't that what geocaching is?

2.3k · December 20, 2003

Doesn't matter to me as long as its an interesting area, or at least getting to it was interesting...

As you can tell, I like the journey or experiencing something new and different than just trading broken McToys.

1.3k · December 20, 2003

If all someone is doing is dumping a container with a logbook at the virt, I seriously doubt they put the kind of effort into it that would have made me enjoy either the virt or the log.

Now, if someone finds a really cool virt location, and they really know the area because they live there, and so they find a way to highlight things that the average vistor might not have noticed, then it strikes me that finding the cache in that location is going to be a hunt, not just a tourist stop.

If the road less traveled makes all the difference, then I'd love for the person who knows the area to point that road out to me and walk me along it.

38.2k · December 20, 2003

I'd prefer finding a real cache. The hunt is a big part of the fun of geocaching to me. Walking up to a statue and jotting down the birthdate of the honoree doesn't invlove much of a hunt.

Today I spent over an hour looking for a micro concealed under a bridge. The same bridge also had a plaque with the date it was dedicated attached to it. I had a lot more fun looking for that micro than I would have if all it required was for me to e-mail the owner with the date the bridge was dedicated.

Next to the hunt, part of the appeal of geocaching to me is finding new and interesting places. Both real caches and virtuals can fulfill this, but all things being equal, I'd rather find a container and log book at the end.

Edited December 20, 2003 by briansnat

December 20, 2003

If I may assume that the site is a legitimate point of interest in a relatively high-traffic area, which is the case for most virts, then I would prefer, enjoyment-wise, that it be a virt rather than poking around for a stupid micro. I do, however, agree with what you and Navdog have already pointed out about this being a different game that is not geocaching.

2.1k · December 20, 2003

Doesn't make a difference. As long as either one is a "good" one. Both have potential of being bad or good. They each are valuable in their own ways.

December 20, 2003

I agree with woodsters. Before today it would have been containers, hands down, but today I found two bad containers and three great virts. I guess there are good [days for] virts and good [days for] containers. How's that for sittin on the fence!

2.5k · December 21, 2003

I'd take a code word micro over a virtual. Something physical to find and no need to visit the cache each time to verify the find log. Oh yeah, I forgot that this makes too much sense.

December 21, 2003

I don't know what the gentlemen prefer, but this chicky would rather go on whichever cache hunt involved the best hike. I don't regularly pursue virts, but I'd rather pursue any of these virts over a traditional park and grab any day:

Operation High Desert Adventure

Shades of the Past

Air Crash 1

Edited December 21, 2003 by Ce'Nedra

38.2k · December 21, 2003

I don't know what the gentlemen prefer, but this chicky would rather go on whichever cache hunt involved the best hike. I don't regularly pursue virts, but I'd rather pursue any of these virts over a traditional park and grab any day:
....snip....

Air Crash 1

Ahhh, the Catskill aircrash caches! Now those are virtuals! Catskill Air Crash 3 was as hard a find as any real cache I've ever encountered. It took 5 veteran geocachers quite some time to find a downed Cessna on the side of a mountain.

Still, if they allowed real caches in the Catskills, I'd rather have found the box at the end. There is something about opening the container and signing the log that completes the hunt. Kind of like the beer after a softball game, or the cigarette after se....well I don't smoke cigarettes, but I've seen it in movies.

Edited December 21, 2003 by briansnat

3.9k · December 21, 2003

Traditional cache 100%. Most virts that I've found you could hide at least a micro at.

3k · December 21, 2003

I would prefer even a lame trad over a virt.

24.7k · December 21, 2003

All other things being the same. Traditional.

They do complete the cache.

And it's not the cigarette that lets you know you are done, but for some that's the only satifaction they are going to get.

3.1k · December 21, 2003

Honestly it doesn't matter to me. A logbook is enjoyable but if this activity never had anything other than virtuals I wouldn't have minded. I can read everyones comments online and people tend to type better than they write so online logs tend to be more interesting anyway.

1.5k · December 21, 2003

Traditional over virt without a doubt. I'll find both, and certainly wouldn't pass up a virtual on my way to a traditional, but the traditional caches with a log are certainly more enjoyable.

December 21, 2003

virtual in a highly poulated area, traditional otherwise

December 21, 2003

If all things were equal, would you rather verify your find by email, or signing a logbook after finding a physical container.

Have to define 'all things equal' for me. Geography is the deciding factor for me. If I want to tour a downtown area or historical site I would prefer virtuals. Give me a good size park, Natioanl Forest etc. I'd much rather have a big beefy ammo can traditional.

Ditto.

2.3k · December 21, 2003

I'd prefer finding a real cache. The hunt is a big part of the fun of geocaching to me. Walking up to a statue and jotting down the birthdate of the honoree doesn't invlove much of a hunt.

I enjoy traditionals but I have seen many interesting virts where I learned something new, not just jotting down a date. Check out this one (check out the gallery) and this one.

December 21, 2003

One thing I dislike about virtuals is having to prove that I was there when I do not have the tools to do so. A prime example of this is requiring a picture of myself at the cache. Since I do not have a camera ... well, this is hard to do. Sometimes the cache owner is lenient about this requirement. Sometimes not.

On the other hand, spending many minutes hunting for a micro can be irritating. Often I just want to see the sight and enjoy the location instead of crawling on my knees looking for a altoids container that has been painted black and stuck to the underside of a park bench. Especially if the co-ordinates are off. Personally I think that there should a mininum size for micros. It is easy to make a hunt impossible. Where is the challenge in that?

December 21, 2003

I like them both and they both have their place. Admittedly, some virtuals are pretty lame. I had one bad experience with a virtual wherein the cache owner deleted my log because I did not wait for their "blessing" to log. I had emailed the cache owner with the answer and then went ahead and logged the cache two days later after I had not heard back. That experience soured me somewhat to virtuals. But I've done several virtuals and never had that problem. My prefrence is a slight tilt toward traditionals. You pick the caches you want to find. Its like picking friends. Of course, sometimes friends turn out to be duds even after you become friends. How will you ever know unless you try. Take the good with the bad.

1.1k · December 21, 2003

I like mixing virts in with a majority of physical container caches during a full day of caching. It's especially satisfying after getting dogged on a tough physical to follow that with an easier virt for a quick morale booster. From that standpoint I've always found virts to be a welcome part of this game.

I especially like it when I have a slate of 20-30 caches to do on a full day of caching, and working to save the virts for the end so that I can do those after I run out of daylight, in order to maximize my finds for the day. I find it's much easier (and more enjoyable) to search for info off a plaque or whatever with my flashlight than trying to find a needle in a haystack micro with my flashlight under the same adverse lighting conditions.

FWIW...

-Dave R. in Biloxi

December 21, 2003

I have a confession to make - er, in addition to cycling, I've found that I really LOVE ammo cans I hope my cycling friends won't think less of me for this public admission...but I'm not about to forsake the cans.

Regards,

Bill

3.8k · December 21, 2003

I'm completely happy with both. If I happen to be close to a virt, I'll nail it; or standing in front of a traditional.

Don't misunderstand, I love a good hike and a good hunt. To me the interesting part of caching is the idea. Why did someone place this here? How creative and clever are they? I especially enjoy finding multiple caches placed by one owner.

Also, I enjoy reading a physical log, but I have usually read the on-line version before attempting the cache.

December 21, 2003

Each to their role:

Physical at a nice quiet location;

Virtual at Scheduled Ancient Monuments / World Heritage Areas / Sites of Special Scientific Interest

It doesn't matter if the location is urban or rural but physicals have to be in quiet locations.

5.9k · December 21, 2003

Caches, like women, should be real. I want to be able to touch it, caress it, and fondle it if I so desire. I want to be able to open it up, stick my hand inside, and pull out a treasure. I want take in the not just the sight, but also the smells, sounds, and feel of the cache. I want to lie down in the autumn leaves and rub the cache all over my body until I am satisfied.

Can’t do that with a virtual.

3.8k · December 21, 2003

Can’t do that with a virtual.

I wouldn't put it entirely out of question. I think you can do virtually anything you want.

December 21, 2003

I definately would prefer to find a cache and sign the log -- that is why I have logged only a handful of virtuals and over a hundred real caches.

2.3k · December 21, 2003

Caches, like women, should be real. I want to be able to touch it, caress it, and fondle it if I so desire. I want to be able to open it up, stick my hand inside, and pull out a treasure. I want take in the not just the sight, but also the smells, sounds, and feel of the cache. I want to lie down in the autumn leaves and rub the cache all over my body until I am satisfied.

Can’t do that with a virtual.

If I caught you molesting one of my caches, you'd be in big trouble mister!!

2.3k · December 21, 2003

Either one is fine for us. We like doing all kinds of caches. We look forward to seeing how TPTB decide to deal with virts & locationless caches in the future (whenever that may be).

We have done a long string of virtuals on a vacation we took in June and that worked out great, we got 36 (and 1 webcam) in 28 days while going thru 14 states, DC and a bit of Canada.

We went out doing strictly locationless ones on my birthday and got 19 that day, our highest one day total.

We will hopefully be going to our 3rd event cache soon, those are lots of fun too.

We of course also like going into the wilds (such as they are around here) looking for soggy logbooks (or worse: see here) in Tupperware (or ammo cans etc.) to sign in.

We have done our share of micros in parks and other places too.

All caches have their place.

Variety is the spice of life (and caching), eat up!

Cache On!

Edited December 21, 2003 by Corp Of Discovery

December 21, 2003

Either way - I just like to play!

December 21, 2003

Hmmm, virt or traditional... virt or traditional... traditional wins, if it's good. But a virt is cool if it is good too -- it's just more rare to find one. As one of the five "veteran" geocachers who accompanied Mr. Snat to the top of Kaaterskill High Peak, I'd agree those were cool verts. Signing in would have been the butter, but they still generated some pretty decent campsite talk and I really felt as if I earned my cigar that night.

But I haven't seen a lot of verts that entice me. Too often they are a road stop or a view that isn't much of a challenge, or is of dubious merit. However, here is where virtual caches are good for me: when I travel, I often don't have ground transportation to go out in the outlying areas, and a virtual cache can provide a geocaching record of my visit. I'll be in Austria in a couple of weeks, where the caches that aren't mountaineering-class will be under heavy snow, few and far between, and out of my time parameters. There is one virtual cache in Innsbruck, and if my slack German translation bears true, it is one that could be done via an internet search. Other than looking at maps, as I probably would for a cache I might search for here, I'm going looking for it the normal way, GPS in hand, on foot. Aa time and proximity permits, I might get to a traditional cache, or I might not, but I will make it a point to find the virtual.

BTW, crawling around, looking for a miniscule micro cache doesn't do anything for me.

December 22, 2003

Caches, like women, should be real. I want to be able to touch it, caress it, and fondle it if I so desire. I want to be able to open it up, stick my hand inside, and pull out a treasure. I want take in the not just the sight, but also the smells, sounds, and feel of the cache. I want to lie down in the autumn leaves and rub the cache all over my body until I am satisfied.

Can’t do that with a virtual.

Women are much more satisfying, no?

December 22, 2003

Virtual at Scheduled Ancient Monuments / World Heritage Areas / Sites of Special Scientific Interest

It doesn't matter if the location is urban or rural but physicals have to be in quiet locations.

Virtuals definitely have a place as it will take visitors to places that they otherwise might have missed. Should be worthwhile though and not simply put on the site to get a virt listed.

One should also bear in mind that not all geocachers are physcillay able to crawl around in the bush to find something. Denying the creation of virts will deny a lot of people the enjoyment of geocaching.

That said, to answer the original question: Yes I prefer the Virt if it is worthwhile and pointing out some interesting history/whatever that might have been by-passed because it is not normally listed in a brochure of the area.

December 22, 2003

My initial response was going to be a quick “physical cache, of course”, but after giving it some thought, I am not so confident in my answer. I have found only three virtuals, two of which required me to locate a very specific object, and one of which took me to a viewpoint. I enjoyed all three (in fact one of them is one of my all time favorite caches) , and find it difficult to honestly say that the experiences would have been more enjoyable had there been a box and a logbook. However, I do get some pleasure from reading logbooks and having a look at the contents of a well stocked cache, so I guess that I would have to say that its likely that I might have enjoyed those three caches a little bit more had there been a physical cache at the end, but not much more. Having said that though, there is no doubt for me that a box at the end of a well located cache is not the most important part of the experience. I have not yet found a virtual cache in a lousy location - but I speculate that a virtual in a lousy location, would rank behind a physical cache in a lousy location.

1.2k · December 22, 2003

Wow, too many great responses to quote them all. As many know I love to place quality virtuals and challenging traditionals. I think it is paramount that either type be well done and interesting. With this in mind I also conceed the game is mainly about the traditional, physical cache. No doubt about that.

My pet peeve are those who talk like virtuals are some kind of "lame detour" the game of geocaching has taken rather than a potential aspect that expands the game into new areas. My virtuals are meant to stand alone, they are not the types to be included in a "multi" or as a micro location. I don't do micros. Period. I had a multi before (destroyed by a hurricane) and I've done traditionals. I liked both, but I don't put out micros. I am much too devious and it would cause much crying and gnashing of teeth....

I don't mind hunting a micro if it is well done, just like any other type. I don't mind hunting a traditional if it is well done. I don't mind hunting a virtual if it is well done. I hate hunting a lame example of ANY of them.

Er, so to answer the question, I do like the traditional better, of course, the point of the game, but I love all the other variations of the game and wish they'd be afforded the respect they deserve...... even the Yellow Jeep....LOL.

December 22, 2003

This is anything but a simple question.

There has been some threads regarding "lame" virtuals (as in all virtuals are lame), virtuals in general (as in why place a virtual in place of a virtual), "lame" 1/1 traditional caches, and etc. Everyone has a favorite. Seems some treat their favorites as the only type of Geocache that should be allowed.

Tracy and I like them all.

6.4k · December 22, 2003

There is a distinct difference between the two games. One involves finding a hidden object, the other involves finding clues to verify your presence at a given location.

Actually, a well done physical multi gives you the oppurtunity to do both.

With that said, I prefer a logbbook. Isn't that what geocaching is?

As usual lately, I find it easier to just quote Navdog. I feel exactly the same way.

1.2k · December 22, 2003

I prefer the real caches but a well thought out and interesting Virt can be fun as well.

4k · December 22, 2003

I've only logged one virt, and it was a drive-by. I think I'd just as soon sign a log in a real cache.

December 22, 2003

Caches, like women, should be real. I want to be able to touch it, caress it, and fondle it if I so desire. I want to be able to open it up, stick my hand inside, and pull out a treasure. I want take in the not just the sight, but also the smells, sounds, and feel of the cache. I want to lie down in the autumn leaves and rub the cache all over my body until I am satisfied.

Took liberties, left a zillion microscopic tadpoles.

Am I the only one that doesn't want to be the guy who finds a cache after Criminal has had his way with it? Ich!

4k · December 22, 2003

Caches, like women, should be real. I want to be able to touch it, caress it, and fondle it if I so desire. I want to be able to open it up, stick my hand inside, and pull out a treasure. I want take in the not just the sight, but also the smells, sounds, and feel of the cache. I want to lie down in the autumn leaves and rub the cache all over my body until I am satisfied.

Took liberties, left a zillion microscopic tadpoles.

Am I the only one that doesn't want to be the guy who finds a cache after Criminal has had his way with it? Ich!

ROFLSHINPMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

9.4k · December 22, 2003

Caches, like women, should be real. I want to be able to touch it, caress it, and fondle it if I so desire. I want to be able to open it up, stick my hand inside, and pull out a treasure. I want take in the not just the sight, but also the smells, sounds, and feel of the cache. I want to lie down in the autumn leaves and rub the cache all over my body until I am satisfied.

Took liberties, left a zillion microscopic tadpoles.

Am I the only one that doesn't want to be the guy who finds a cache after Criminal has had his way with it? Ich!

ROFLSHINPMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Glad I'm not in his area...

1.4k · December 22, 2003

traditionals.

1.1k · December 22, 2003

Caches, like women, should be real. I want to be able to touch it, caress it, and fondle it if I so desire. I want to be able to open it up, stick my hand inside, and pull out a treasure. I want take in the not just the sight, but also the smells, sounds, and feel of the cache. I want to lie down in the autumn leaves and rub the cache all over my body until I am satisfied.

Can’t do that with a virtual.

If that doesn't give Criminal a bump up in the Most Influential Thread................

December 22, 2003

I guess I prefer real caches over virtuals but both to me have about the same challenge. The hiding of a real cache to me takes more time and thought ,so I guess thats why I prefer them. But my best find so far was a Letterbox cache, that drove me crazy for about a month.I knew the general area it was hidden in but without solving the puzzle I could not get the co-ords for the find. Finally, with a little help, I crack it and became one of only two finders of the cache to date.(Missed being the first finder by two days.) If you are ever in the Anderson, S.C. area try the Letterbox cache (Scarlet Letter) by Chipper3 it is cool. But keep in mind half of the hunt has to be done online. See you on the hunt, Jeff24

Gentlemen Prefer Virts. Or Do They?

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