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Subjective Opinions


ryanandzulema
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I received a log today on one of my caches and it read: ;)

 

Took two tries. No offense, but I'd wear gloves on this one. Pretty unsavory location, from a germ standpoint. It's always great to see a new cache, and I truly appreciate the effort that goes to putting one out, but this spot is kind of gross.

 

I need to vent. :mad: Basically this person is saying, "Hey thanks for the effort, but your cache stinks."

 

I am over it now since I deleted the log from the cache page, but has this happened to anybody else? Any thoughts?

 

By the way the aforementioned cache location is similar to a million other geocache locations. The descriptions of gross and dirty are unfounded.

 

-Ryan

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Its your cache, its your call.

 

I have had my logs deleted because : you were not there on the 13th you were there on the 14th I checked the log book. ( I don’t date my logs any more this happen three times )

 

I have deleted logs that gave spoilers and ask them to re-log it without them, and one cacher that called me a thief on his cache page and still deleting him until he tells me he is sorry. dream on, he is as stubborn as me

 

…………………JOE

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I think it's wrong to delete legit find logs unless they contain profanity, or unwanted spoilers. It both cases it's a courtesy to ask the logger to change it first and only delete it if they refuse.

 

If the log is critical of your cache, so be it. That's the person's opinion. If it's one person who is critical and the rest have no problem, you can rest easily knowing that your cache is fine and the problem is with that person. If you get a number of critical logs, then maybe you should re-think your cache.

 

One of the points of logs is for finders to provide feedback to the owner, whether its positive, or negative. I know of one person who complains about ticks in almost every cache log. Yeah, there are ticks out there. Caches are outdoors. Still, I'd never delete one of his logs even though there is a possibility that it could scare off people. If we started deleting every log that complained about mud, ticks, rocks, poison ivy, germs, what have you, there is going to be a lot of deleting going on. Which brings out another issue. You start deleting someones logs and you may find yourself in the middle of a log deletion war. There have been instances of people getting into juvenile "You deleted my log, so I'm deleting yours" battles, believe it or not.

Edited by briansnat
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If the log is critical of your cache, so be it. That's the person's opinion. If it's one person who is critical and the rest have no problem, you can rest easily knowing that your cache is fine and the problem is with that person. If you get a number of critical logs, then maybe you should re-think your cache.

 

Yep.

 

Could you describe the location of the cache?

Edited by OUTSID4EVR
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It does hurt when you get a negative post. But you cannot please everyone. I read the log page and frankly I think your replacement post is worse then the original log. It'll scare more people away then the original. Also, the other finders' posts were not negative so don't let one post get you down.

 

PS: I wouldn't hunt any of that guy's caches or you might find your logs deleted too.

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I've only had one negative post on any of my caches, and the cacher deleted it after I contacted them via e-mail.

 

He complained about the route to get to the cache (private little mountain road with unfriendlies). After reading the log I knew he had taken the wrong road and contacted him via e-mail to correct him.

When he realized the mistake, he deleted the log himself.

 

Had he left it, I would have been inclined to just post a note rather than delete it myself. With all the other logs NOT complaining about the cache, his would have stood out as the exception rather than the rule.

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I just don't get it. You delete his log for saying something about the caceh being gross and dirty. And yet you replace with a log of your own saying don't call my cache gross and dirty, in effect letting everyone know the cache is potentially gross and dirty. In this case I would have let the log stay or ask them to edit to clean it up. You defeated your own purpose of deleting the log. That doesn't make sense.

 

And you Left Coasters will put caches anywhere won't you? :D

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I think that a log that is negative in tone and does not offer *constructive* criticism, such as the log in question, can be deleted.

A log should not be deleted just because it has a negative tone. Get some tougher skin... not everyone is going to agree with everything you say or do.

 

Is deleting the log being done just to make you feel better

or is it being done because it is better for the cache and any

future visitors???

 

I agree with those who say post a note refuting the negative claim and let

everyone make their own decisions on whether to believe it or not...

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I think that a log that is negative in tone and does not offer *constructive* criticism, such as the log in question, can be deleted.

I think that any log if it is true that the finder did find the cache (even regardless of date) should be left alone. If you don't like the log, tough it out, nobody said everyone needs to be happy about every find. Should that person be a jerk and write mean and nasty things in your logs? No, everyone should be courteous, but it doesn't happen all the time.

 

As for this particular log, I think deleting it was overreaction. So they said you hid it in a gross, dirty place? Wow. Them's fightin' words! Dirty! Imagine a box outside being dirty! It's amazing that you didn't ask GC.com to just shutdown their account!

 

:D

 

If "this spot was kind of gross" is the level at which log deletion takes place for you, so be it, but that doesn't make you any more right than they were. There is still the notion that you should be bigger than the other person so that you might lead them by example.

 

If they put a note that was not constructive, I could see deleting it, but a Found log is this system's way of marking it out of your find list and keeping track of your numbers. By deleting it (since you can't just edit out the text), you are saying "no, it is not true that you found my cache" and unless the log attached to the smilie face was obscene or a blatant lie (like 'don't do this cache it's balanced over a 400 foot deep hole'), then I don't think it should be deleted. You don't have to like the finder or what they think, but you should also be a lot slower to screw up their numbers and things. If this cache wasn't at the top of their filtered list, then it may be a while before they would even realize it was deleted (last I heard, there's no alert mailed to you if hiders delete your logs).

 

Like the topic was rightly stated, each log is a subjective opinion and while you may not agree with their opinion of your cache hiding skills or specific placement of *this* cache, you should at least respect it and leave their log alone.

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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

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I think that a log that is negative in tone and does not offer *constructive* criticism, such as the log in question, can be deleted.

A log should not be deleted just because it has a negative tone. Get some tougher skin... not everyone is going to agree with everything you say or do.

 

Is deleting the log being done just to make you feel better

or is it being done because it is better for the cache and any

future visitors???

 

I agree with those who say post a note refuting the negative claim and let

everyone make their own decisions on whether to believe it or not...

I agree with Doc on this one. Had a brand new cacher log our cache Like this. My response was to post this note. Note. What I did not do is delete his log, he made a mistake. I didn't want other cachers to think there was a problem, and I didn't want to discourage a newbie.

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I still believe that there should never be a bad or negative find log on a cache page. An intelligent person would stop searching for the cache if they felt uncomfortable. If the area is too dirty for you, go away. Don't keep looking in all the filth untill you find the cache, and then complain about it. We all have the option to stop searching the instant we decide we don't like the conditions at the cache site. The fact that people press on through the very stuff they complain about until they find the container is interesting. It obviously wasn't bad enough to deter them from finding the cache, so they ought to keep their mouth shut. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

 

On the other hand, I have never deleted or encypted any of the logs to my cache pages, even the spoilers. There is a warning that the logs can contain spoilers right above the logs on every page. I will however delete any logs containing references to seafood written in french, or the letters DPM. :D

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It obviously wasn't bad enough to deter them from finding the cache, so they ought to keep their mouth shut. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

So, if they DO stop because the area is unsafe/unsavory, or the location is revolting, or some weed head hid the cache in a bag of trash and t'ain't no one gonna fish through that puppy, we can't log a "DNF" expressing the reason we didn't follow through?

 

We recently found a cache in a big ol' empty stump, covered with an empty, wet case-of-beer carton and all the empties that came out of it. We pressed on using a big stick to get rid of all the trash covering the box, but you can darn well bet I mentioned the cache was covered in garbage in my log. Encrypted, of course, but still. Is is SUPPOSED to be covered in trash or what? (Being the good little cachers we are, we covered it back up just like we found it.)

 

As a cacher, I'd rather people said what they thought was up in their logs, as a cache-hider, same... tell me what you really think. I can take it. How tough is it to go check it out to see if what they said is true and to add a note afterward saying you'd been there and all is good in the land of cache-dom? What? You're too busy to check out the cache? Hm...

 

-=-

michelle

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If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

Personally, I think the guy behind me deserves to know that the cache is located on private property between two sinkholes that might be a little hard to see when the snow gets deeper. I'm not sure if saying that is a "subjective opinion" or not, but I'd want to know if I was him.

 

Given a choice between nice and honest, I'll take honest, thank you.

 

---------

Edit: added all the following silliness.

 

As I think about it, I'm more and more sure there is a need for negative honest feedback.

 

Given that some people are currently unable to maintain their caches (much like some people seem unable to return the TBs they're holding), someone else must do maintainence on the cache. The community seems to think that the community should help in maintaining the cache. They seem to feel that only the owner should be the one to actually remove it, but as far as repairing it and trashing out the joint, that's a community project.

 

Therefore there's a lot of negative feedback that needs to be left such as:

"Please bring a log book/pencil/trash bag/ammo can/whatever with you on your visit."

"There is a dead skunk/deer/park manager that needs to be removed. I wasn't going to touch it."

"Bees have built a hive around the tupperware container. If you're alergic, try another cache".

"There's a lot of quicksand if you approach from the south..."

"DNF as there was a mountain lion with cubs in the approximate location of the cache."

"DNF. Hobo cache is very well named. The homeless people here did not appreciate my night caching. Took dump in pants. Left nothing."

"Found bear trap."

"Wear red, the #*!% hunters out here are idiots."

"Thought cache was located at the top of the cliff. Coordinates are still the same but elevation appears to have changed. Saw cache but needed better equipment in order to be able to sign the log book."

"Found beavers. Found beaver dam. Did not find cache. Reccomend next cacher brings SCUBA gear."

Edited by bons
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I still believe that there should never be a bad or negative find log on a cache page. An intelligent person would stop searching for the cache if they felt uncomfortable. If the area is too dirty for you, go away. Don't keep looking in all the filth untill you find the cache, and then complain about it. We all have the option to stop searching the instant we decide we don't like the conditions at the cache site. The fact that people press on through the very stuff they complain about until they find the container is interesting. It obviously wasn't bad enough to deter them from finding the cache, so they ought to keep their mouth shut. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

WoW! That's an outrageous expectation. Very weird reverse logic. It's funny that you would question the intelligence of others who are only compelled to succeed.

The cache hider is the only one that must meet expectations. Make your cache interesting and memorable. Especially if you don't want to hear complaints.

 

Do you expect everyone to lie about their experience? I think that is contrary to the nature of the log it self.

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I wouldn't delete a negative log. I might respond to it with a note or a private email. I would maybe encrypt spoilers.

 

As for negative logs, I think in many cases they can be helpful to the owner even if they maybe could have been worded better. With that said, I once saw the following two logs (neither were on one of my caches, I just came across them) that just baffled me: (1) In a cache stating that it had a special first finder prize, the first finder wrote "nothing special here." Maybe they meant the prize was gone or something, but it sure sounded odd! (2) "took a lame signature item and left my signature card." Now if they thought the item they took was "lame" why take it, much less mention it?????

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I still believe that there should never be a bad or negative find log on a cache page.

So I should lie about I hurt my leg when I tripped near the cache? Or that someone had dumped a month worth of their household garbage right on the cache? Or that I saw an exhibitionist on the way to the cache site? Or that the cache was 150 meters off the given coordinates? Or that the contents were wet and moldy? Or that there were a bunch of tough looking thugs staring and following me when I approached the cache site?

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So I should lie about I hurt my leg when I tripped near the cache? Or that someone had dumped a month worth of their household garbage right on the cache? Or that I saw an exhibitionist on the way to the cache site? Or that the cache was 150 meters off the given coordinates? Or that the contents were wet and moldy? Or that there were a bunch of tough looking thugs staring and following me when I approached the cache site?

 

Outside of the exhibitionist, I think I have included all of those in cache logs at one time or another. In some cases, such as getting hurt, or banging up my car, they were not even negative coments and just part of the experience. In others, they were meant to notify the owner (e.g. moldy cache), and in yet others to tell others (e.g. watch for creepy guys or bring a trash bag to CITO).

 

These types of logs are helpful or tell part of the story of the cacher's experience.

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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

 

Scheesch! I guess Mills is right, but we are talking about geocaching here! :D

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Heh, that did not go over well. :D

 

No, I do not expect people to lie about their experiences. "Bad" is a matter of opinion. In some people's opinion, multis are bad compared to single stage caches. For instance "Found the cache. I would have liked it except it was a multi. Multi's suck." That's an example of a negative log. Many of us hold the opinion that if you don't like a particular type of cache, you shouldn't search for it. I believe that can apply to any individual cache of any type. If the area is so bad that you stop your search, then go ahead and log a DNF stating your reasons, by all means. But remember, this is a game. If you are made so uncomfortable by the search that you feel the need to bash someone for placing a cache that is not to your liking, the fact that you continued to subject yourself to the very things you complain of just to play a game does not strike me as being intelligent.

If the cache is worth finding, it can't have been all that bad.

 

If something happens to you on the hunt, like insect bites, broken bones, sprains, etc. Those are not the hider's fault. Many of the examples of reasons to put criticism in logs are legitimate, because they are examples of poor maintenance and/or caches that should not even have been approved. In that case, because the moldy piece of garbage you followed the coords to doesn't meet the guidelines, it isn't a cache anyway.

 

There's a difference between informing a cache owner of a maintenance issue they might need to address, and saying "the cache stinks, it was too quick and easy." If you feel the need to say that, go ahead. It would make me pretty angry to see a log like that on one of my caches. I probably wouldn't delete it, just leave it there for all of the other finders to gawk at and think, "Jeez, what a jerk."

 

As for complete honesty, I'd better not. :D

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Sometimes you don't know a cache is lame, or potentially dangerous until the last moment. I would like to read about bad caches in the logs so I can avoid them. Lame caches and dangerous locations are a waste of time.

 

Before I stir up the "No cache is a waste of time" folks, consider that all caches are not created equal. Some caches are really poorly chosen places, like 50 feet from a road in a bamboo thicket with 2 hobo encampments nearby. I was not aware of the situation until I actually got near the cache. You bet my log reflected what I saw.

 

I wasn't rude, but future finders should know the facts. Tell it like it is!

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This is my DNF log for a cache my wife and I hunted.

 

LOG

I got to the area then I left. I won't be back to look again.

/LOG

 

The area was an obvious hangout for drug users. There were used needles and a lot of broken glass there. I felt this was the best way to handle the log.

 

I think that log politely let me feelings be known. I know of at least two cahers that didn't hunt this cache after reading that log.

Edited by Harrald
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I would think not everything that appears in a cache log amounts to "opinion," or is in any way "subjective." A log consisting of information a cache owner considers "subjective negative opinion" could very well be both objective and absolutely factual. It could very well be that the log wasn't even remotely negative; that appraisal was merely the cache owner's opinion.

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This is my DNF log for a cache my wife and I hunted.

 

LOG

I got to the area then I left. I won't be back to look again.

/LOG

I think your log would have been totally appropriate if your log was:

 

The area was an obvious hangout for drug users. There were used needles and a lot of broken glass there. We will not return.

 

Certainly, this info would be useful to cachers considering this one in the future.

Edited by sbell111
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If something happens to you on the hunt, like insect bites, broken bones, sprains, etc. Those are not the hider's fault. Many of the examples of reasons to put criticism in logs are legitimate, because they are examples of poor maintenance and/or caches that should not even have been approved. In that case, because the moldy piece of garbage you followed the coords to doesn't meet the guidelines, it isn't a cache anyway.

 

Are you saying that injuries should not be in logs? Or just that they should not be read by the owner as a negative? I have included injuries and difficulties in several logs, but they were not written to be negative (anything but). Instead, they were part of the experience/story. This was one where I followed directions poorly, banged up my car and ended up loving the experience. And this was another on the same day and the injuries were part of the story. If I remember right, my friend bashed her finger at yet another cache that day and I may have put that in the log there too. We got really banged up that day and loved every minute of it! Of course, I would never try to word an injury to sound negative. But I suppose if I got injured because of something dangerous about the placement, I might note that people should be careful or something.

Edited by carleenp
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If something happens to you on the hunt, like insect bites, broken bones, sprains, etc. Those are not the hider's fault. Many of the examples of reasons to put criticism in logs are legitimate, because they are examples of poor maintenance and/or caches that should not even have been approved. In that case, because the moldy piece of garbage you followed the coords to doesn't meet the guidelines, it isn't a cache anyway.

 

Are you saying that injuries should not be in logs? Or just that they should not be read by the owner as a negative? I have included injuries and difficulties in several logs, but they were not written to be negative (anything but). Instead, they were part of the experience/story. This was one where I followed directions poorly, banged up my car and ended up loving the experience. And this was another on the same day and the injuries were part of the story. Of course, I would never try to word an injury to sound negative. But I suppose if I got injured because of something dangerous about the placement, I might note that people should be careful or something.

I've had several logs where I've logged, Took ......., left blood on every prickly bush or fed a few hundred mosquitos for the month.

 

When I review other people's logs and see similar things, it helps me prepare better for what I need to do for the hunt!

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Are you saying that injuries should not be in logs?
Certainly not. Injuries are part of the experience and should not be seen as criticism, rather an account of what happened.
Or just that they should not be read by the owner as a negative?
Exactly.

 

The "negative" logs I was referring to are the ones that complain about asthetics. I should have been more clear. So what if the cache isn't the most fantastic thing we have ever seen. It's still a reason to get outside and do something fun. I just don't see the need for people to complete a cache hunt that they thought was not fun enough, then complain about it. If you're not having fun, then stop and log a DNF. If you do find it, be happy someone placed a cache for you to find. The first cache I ever found wasn't anything special compared to some of the fantastic hides I've seen, but at the time it was awesome. Literally the best cache I'd ever found. So before we go doot on someone's cache in a log, we should think about whether what we write is informative and constructive, or just plain mean.

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