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Algonquin Bound

Nominations - Ontario Geocachers Unite

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Since this topic has been discussed for some time, both here and on the Bozznet forums, let's formalize the nomination process a bit.

 

First of all, there has been a proposal that our new organization be called Southern Ontario Geocaching Association. There is even a nifty logo, which you can view at the above link and which some people are already using. Are there any objections to proceeding with this name? Does the majority agree with its continued use?

 

Secondly. there have been notes from Halden, Hard Oiler, Purple Fever and TrimblesTrek, nominating The Blue Quasar as our leader. The Blue Quasar has accepted these nominations and agreed to get the ball rolling. It should also be noted that when we went through the same process on the Bozznet forum discussions, we came to the same conclusion. The Blue Quasar should start the organization.

 

So, what we need to know is:

 

1. Do you agree with the organization being called S.O.G.A.?

2. Do you agree with The Blue Quasar starting the organization?

3. Is there anyone else you feel should be nominated?

4. Is there a particular position or field of expertise you would like to nominate yourself or someone else for, once the organization starts getting organized. (This information can be tracked by the organizer, until he/she is ready to start asking for assistance.)

5. What shall we call our "Leader/Organizer"?

 

Let's discuss this for two weeks (given that it is such a busy time of the year, I've decided to keep the topic open for 2 weeks, rather than 1 as I originally planned), get a consensus and officially get our arganization started.

 

Nominations are open and will be closed at midnight, on Friday, January 4th, 2004, at which time this topic will be closed and hopefully a new Geocaching Association will have been born, with a new leader.

 

For what it is worth, I certainly agree with The Blue Quasar nomination and with the S.O.G.A. name and logo. I propose that we call our leader President.

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I agree with A-B that it is time to get the ball rolling towards organizing a formal association of geocachers for our area (Southern Ontario). There certainly seems to be enough interest and I'm sure we'll all agree that there are a few issues to be attended to. My answers to the listed questions:

  • 1/ Yes. The approximate boundaries can be defined at a later date
  • 2/ Yes. I can't think of a finer gentlemen for the job.
  • 3/ No.
  • 4/ Not at this time. BQ should be the one to choose helpers to assist initially until formal elections can be held.
  • 5/ I like that name for now - "Leader/Organizer"

Cheers, Olar

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I second Ian's nomination of Blue Quasar and agree with the name and logo of the organization.

 

I imagine we will also need postions such as VP, Secretary, Membership etc. and I've had experience in other organizations with these jobs. I'll toss my hat in to volunteer wherever possible.

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I would like to suggest organizing for all of Ontario instead of just part. It will save problems down the road and prefent conflicts with the potential Northern Ontario group when it comes to negotiating with parks.

Edited by Renegade Knight

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So, what we need to know is: 

 

1.  Do you agree with the organization being called S.O.G.A.?

2.  Do you agree with The Blue Quasar starting the organization?

3.  Is there anyone else you feel should be nominated?

4.  Is there a particular position or field of expertise you would like to nominate yourself or someone else for, once the organization starts getting organized.  (This information can be tracked by the organizer, until he/she is ready to start asking for assistance.)

5.  What shall we call our "Leader/Organizer"?

Is this going to be just for "Southern" Ontario or for all of Ontario? If this is just for your area, being Southern Ontario, then not being there kind of limits the nominations and voting for me. For all of Ontario since I am in Eastern Ontario my view on the 5 questions are as follows.

 

1. No, it should reflect all of Ontario, with each area having separate chapters/divisions since there are different groups in Ontario, but since the goals and why this was started will affect everyone in the province, then we all should be involved. If this is a province wide association then it should be the Ontario Geocachers Association or something along that line.

 

2. I do not know Blue Quasar, did briefly meet him at the last event in Guelph, but will this be just for Southern Ontario or the whole province? If for just your area, then I have to abstain as I am not in your area. Maybe we should have 1 main representative from each of the major caching areas in the province. Travelling to 1 area will be difficult for most I think.

 

3. Yes, but no one has shown any interest that I know yet and I will not nominate someone until I know they have the time and interest to do so, so I will wait on nominating someone.

 

4. I will help out where I can.

 

5. Will think about this one, President, No. Organizer, maybe, will get back on this one.

 

I do agree that we should get an association formed, but disagree that the association be reflective of just one region when the affect will be so wide spread. I will try to get some cachers in my area interested and informed on this subject.

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I went to look at your bozznet forums to get some back ground and it wants a password and registration. Before you say go read something and posting a link you should have it open for all to see.

 

I think we should have a big meeting with all that are interested in forming an association, get some ground rules, figure out who is who, have open nominations at meeting, and run proper elections.

 

The first things that need to done is what positions are to be required and a job description for each position so those running will know what there jobs will entail.

 

Right now it seems to me that there are for a better word a bunch of geocache cliques around the province and we need to unite and start fresh.

 

So before all these nominations etc get started you first should be getting a list of dates together and posting them to see when we can have a meeting and a place that is central to all to begin this next step in geocaching in Ontario.

 

To make things easier and a good way to see who is interested in going further with this association anyone who reponds to this thread would be on the committee to go forth and start the ground work of the association.

 

:mad:

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I've missed something here... what's the mandate of SOGA and how will it be structured -- and funded?

 

Please don't misinterpret my questions, but it's sounding a lot like a bunch of guys who sort of know each other, sowing a patch on their bush jackets and learning a secret handshake. I just question the reason for this "club within a club" and what you intend to do once it's formed. If you intend it to be some sort of public relations body for geocaching here in Ontario, then "advertising" it on these forums is not going to get you the sort of ground support you'll need.

 

I mean really, you've posted a message asking if everyone agrees with the name and the logo and you're nominating a president and we don't even know what you stand for.

 

Play on....

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I think that having an organization is a step in the right direction.

1) I think that it should cover all of Ontario not just the Southern part. Being from Sault Ste. Marie, it makes more sense to cover the whole province now rather than leaving the northern cachers out in the dark. It should also cover Eastern Ontario, such as Ottawa and Kingston.

2) I have never met The Blue Quasar but if he would like to take the lead and get this thing off the ground, I say more power to him.

3) No

4) Nope

5) I think that the title of the head person should be called President.

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I went to look at your bozznet forums to get some back ground and it wants a password and registration. Before you say go read something and posting a link you should have it open for all to see.

Just to clarify: I didn't suggest reading the Bozznet forums and the reason I didn't is that the forums are down right now. I put the link only to the logo, which I thought everyone would be able to see. If you can't, I apologize.

I think we should have a big meeting with all that are interested in forming an association, get some ground rules, figure out who is who, have open nominations at meeting, and run proper elections.

I don't think we need a big meeting, until after some groundwork has been laid. The suggestion has been and continues to be, that The Blue Quasar is interested in doing this and that is what I support.

The first things that need to done is what positions are  to be required and a job description for each position so those running will know what there jobs will entail.

I'm afraid if we get too bogged down in politics and over-organization, it won't get off the ground.

To make things easier and a good way to see who is interested in going further with this association anyone who reponds to this thread would be on the committee to go forth and start the ground work of the association.

I think this suggestion has some merit, further down the road, if people are interested in getting on board.

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but it's sounding a lot like a bunch of guys who sort of know each other, sowing a patch on their bush jackets and learning a secret handshake.

 

Ahem.. not a 'guy' and don't know how to sew... and I'm still waiting for the handshake. :mad:

 

I agree that this needs to be organized fairly soon and that input from everyone is important. Blue Quasar has volunteered to get this off the ground.

 

Let's not get bogged down in too much organizational detail to start off. That can come later. Forming a 'shell organization' to get it started is a great idea. We're talking Southern Ontario - what sort of boundaries do we need? Should we be talking about the Golden Horseshoe Cachers Assoc. or South Central Ontario...? (awkward, I know). Once each area has their groups organized, THEN we can get an umbrella organization and work on Mandates, Mission Statements, Job Descriptions etc.

 

GHMCMC (GCG1AP) wasn't found in a day (that I know of).

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Hello all. Fast growing topic.

 

Since I really can't answer all of the suggested questions for obvious reason I will say what my thoughts are of what has been said so far.

 

I agree that SOGA is not the name that a group should go with. By definition from government literature that I have read, Southern Ontario is every region except 5. And I think that every area of Ontario should be recognized and represented.

 

I am willing to take the "organizer" role and if that is the leadership then I would do that too. I have many ideas, some taken from other people's posts and some of my own to offer.

 

I see the group as an informative area, one that has a unique Ontario flair to it. If contact with governement officials is required then it would be from a supportive role with Geocaching.com but also to represent caching in Ontario's interest.

 

As for a name I have been tossing around a few names, and of course I would hope for input or approval from a majority of people.

 

Names that I think up are usually acronyms. GO (Geocaching Ontario) or simply "Geocaching Ontario", or maybe GOING (GO + Information Network Group). All I would ask is that it is a catchy name without being childish. For example TOGA (The Ontario Geocaching Association) would be seen as college partiers and be taken as a joke.

 

So, like everyone says there would have to be a few people to get things started, and if I was leading then I know that I would like to see every region to have a place within it.

 

Like Logger and Ail said in a different thread, the WEB SITE is paramount to getting things startd and content can be added in as developed. I have lots of ideas for content and while I do not look at other Geo-clubs sites because I would like ours to be fresh and inventive. Lots of info and support tools, files and ratings, lists and lists and lists. A second stop after Geocaching.com for those that would like to feel at home with more of a personal touch.

 

My thoughts, please share yours.

 

:mad: The Blue Quasar

 

P.S. Thanks for all the nice things you are all saying about me, I hope I canlive up to your hopes if I lead this group.

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I see the group as an informative area, one that has a unique Ontario flair to it.  If contact with governement officials is required then it would be from a supportive role with Geocaching.com but also to represent caching in Ontario's interest.

 

Yes, I'd like to see this too -- a contact organization that provides information to government officials and land managers as well as information that would be useful to new as well as experienced Ontario geocachers. The site might include information about upcoming picnic events, pub events, meetings with park officials, gm100guy's work regarding park policy, etc.

 

Names that I think up are usually acronyms.  GO (Geocaching Ontario) or simply "Geocaching Ontario", or maybe GOING (GO + Information Network Group).  All I would ask is that it is a catchy name without being childish.  For example TOGA (The Ontario Geocaching Association) would be seen as college partiers and be taken as a joke.

 

I like GO (Geocaching Ontario).

 

Like Logger and Ail said in a different thread, the WEB SITE is paramount to getting things startd and content can be added in as developed. 

 

I'm in complete agreement that the web site is a very important starting point.

 

R of J.A.R.S.

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Just another quick note. I agree with those who have suggested that it be an Ontario group, rather than Southern Ontario. I just loved that logo! :mad: Perhaps TrimblesTrek will volunteer to rework it to suit a new name, once we decide upon one.

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I would love to post the original SOGA so those that haven't seen it can, just for referrence sake since it will have to be changed. I too think "GO" is my favourite choice.

 

Can someone tell me if and how I can post the image?

 

:mad: The Blue Quasar

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before you start to organizine you should read this

 

Before anyone here starts to organize and run with an association the above would be a good read for you.

 

I hate when meetings get out of hand at Tim Horton's, because it seem that the ones trying to get this started are not listening to some of the posts here.

 

I ask all cachers in Ontario to get the word out to our silient majority in the province and ask them to get involed in this thread too.

 

:mad:

Edited by gm100guy

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1. Do you agree with the organization being called S.O.G.A.?

 

No, As Quasar has mentioned I like the more inclusive titles. My Personal vote goes to Ontario Geocaching Association but anything reasonable will do.

 

2. Do you agree with The Blue Quasar starting the organization?

 

Yes as long as he is willing to take on the task.

 

3. Is there anyone else you feel should be nominated?

 

Not really

 

4. Is there a particular position or field of expertise you would like to nominate yourself or someone else for, once the organization starts getting organized. (This information can be tracked by the organizer, until he/she is ready to start asking for assistance.)

 

I would offer my assistance in anyway possible. I am not a born leader or organizer but I would love to do my part. Anything I can do to contribute to the eventual site let me know.

 

5. What shall we call our "Leader/Organizer"?

 

President, Prime Minister, Grand Poobah ?

 

I think a website would be a definite site. Even if we just start by listing a name, a logo and a simple mission statement. Get some recognition going. Let the people know we are here and starting to organize.

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You need to upload the pic into your profile then you will use the img button to create the link. When the pic is qued into your account right click on it and get the url property so as to put into the link.

 

If the pic is hosted on another site you can just hit the http:// button and put in the url instead. the pic will show when you click on the url.

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before you start to organizine you should read this

 

Before anyone here starts to organize and run with an association the above would be a good read for you.

Okay, I've read it and here's what seemed pertinent to me: "When it is desired to form a permanent society, those interested in it should consult together and carefully lay their plans before calling a meeting to organize the society."

 

That is what is going on here. That is the purpose of this thread.

I hate when meetings get out of hand at Tim Horton's, because it seem that the ones trying to get this started are not listening to some of the posts here.

Not really sure what you mean here. I have never been to a meeting at Tim Horton's, so I don't know what that reference is about. As for not listening, I have carefully reviewed all the posts and have listened to all suggestions. Please be more specific about what you think is not being listened to.

 

Several people suggested an all-Ontario name, rather than Southern Ontario. I listened. I agree.

 

The discussion on forming an organization has been going on for some time and almost everyone who has posted here, so far, has been involved in those discussions. As for the mandate, I think J.A.R.S. covered it fairly well, with:

-- a contact organization that provides information to government officials and land managers as well as information that would be useful to new as well as experienced Ontario geocachers. The site might include information about upcoming picnic events, pub events, meetings with park officials, gm100guy's work regarding park policy, etc.

That's a pretty good starting point.

I ask all cachers in Ontario to get the word out to our silient majority in the province and ask them to get involed in this thread too.

I absolutely encourage that. The more, the merrier.

 

Let's just not get tied up in politics. Plenty of time for that, years down the road. :D

Edited by Algonquin Bound

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I think the name should encompass a caching group in as large a context as possible for a number of reasons.

 

1.) Geocachers from Ontario do not limit their searches to only Ontario.

 

2.) Cachers from outside of Ontario may wish to involve themselves and by naming it for ontario we may inadvertently exclude them.

 

3) The broader the membership base the more clout we will have as a group.

 

4.) The reaction of some people when they heard the word ontario react with the "centre of the universe" response (see initial responses to this thread to verify my concerns)

 

5.) We shouldn't exclude those outside of Ontario for membership for the same reason that Ontario cachers will cache outside of Ontario, conversely non-Ontario cachers will cache in Ontario.

 

6.) As more regional groups are setup cachers may wish to join their own local groups but still remain part of the Ontario caching group.

 

6.) Landowners are more likely to respect the views of a larger group than just Ontario cachers. Again the centre of the universe theory falls into play.

 

How about a name something along the line of Central Canadian Cachers Association or CCCA? We use this theory for my engineering association for many of the same reasons and it has worked out very well. Someone may be a member of more than one group even if they are primarily based in one area.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

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Let's just not get tied up in politics. Plenty of time for that, years down the road.

 

Now is the time to get involed in the politics and have all the ground rules and organization sorted out before we start.

 

We don't have the time or years down the road, we are facing a few problems now with differant foes now that we want to be seen as a united front to solve these problems.

 

Okay, I've read it and here's what seemed pertinent to me: "When it is desired to form a permanent society, those interested in it should consult together and carefully lay their plans before calling a meeting to organize the society."

 

I am glad you read what I had posted and I think what I quoted explians how I feel about what happen here.

 

You can not come on an open forum and say that someone few know is going to be the president and that we are forming something with out consulting all. And the next part says you should be calling a meeting.

 

So when you have a plan of action and are ready to call a meeting with an open floor and a real vision and goals for an association for all Ontario, then give us a call.

 

:D

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Now is the time to get involed in the politics and have all the ground rules and organization sorted out before we start.

I disagree entirely. We need to get it started, not sort out protocols. We DON'T need a half a dozen people meeting in Tim Horton's and deciding what to do.

I am glad you read what I had posted and I think what I quoted explians how I feel about what happen here.

You have made it clear that you are interested in the political setup. You have not offered a single idea about what you feel the organization should stand for, should do, how it might be structured or anything. That is exactly my point. We could get bogged down in this debate forever and it is pointless. We are trying to proceed with something positive here and leave the negativity out of it. If it turns out that The Blue Quasar is an evil villain, trying to take over the world, via the sleepy geocaching community, we'll oust him. What really are your concerns? If the community decides to forego Roberts Rules, in lieu of good old-fashioned trust, what is the problem?

You can not come on an open forum and say that someone few know is going to be the president

Actually, I can... and I have.

and that we are forming something with out consulting all.

We are consulting all in the only available forum for doing so.

So when you have a plan of action and are ready to call a meeting with an open floor and a real vision and goals for an association for all Ontario, then give us a call.

This IS the plan of action and this IS the open floor, and you seem to be the only detractor, thus far. That's certainly okay with me. I did not expect everyone to agree with me. Nevertheless, I think it is a good way to go and I stand by it. I've seen no reason to feel otherwise.

 

These discussions have been going on, in various formats, for months, and in some cases, according to you, for years. It was time for someone to step up to the plate and do something. Many people suggested The Blue Quasar and he agreed to take it on. Still, nothing was being done. I took it upon myself to open nominations, set a date and get things going. We all have a pretty good idea of what such an organization should stand for. Let's start building and iron out the minutiae later.

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I do not like this SOGA idea one bit... :D

 

** Hold On...Let me think for a minute.... :D

 

No, I don't think so... :D

 

I don't know you guys from a hole in the head, I've never met you, what do you know about my concerns? What do you care? You do not speak for me and if anyone asks I will tell them as much

DirtRunner.

 

P.S. The most important thing about a society or group is not leadership, it’s inclusion. I see you have yet to acquire either.

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We all have a pretty good idea of what such an organization should stand for.

 

I think you may have hit the right point now.

 

Tell all of us what you stand for and a vision statement or such so that I can then make an informed decision about supporting this association.

 

You have not offered a single idea about what you feel the organization should stand for, should do, how it might be structured or anything

 

How can we as a group have any input here when you never invited us to a meeting where you talked about all these good idea's.

 

Give us a date and place where all geocachers in Ontario can meeting and be presented with your good idea's, then we can all share and have input and decide who we can vote on to be the president etc for this group.

 

:D

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With the size of Ontario and the travel that would be involved for some, it might be better to set something up on live chat so those who cannot attend can still have some input. A virtual meeting.

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DirtRunner,

I am not sure what fears you have about a group Organizing but if you are afraid that you haven't been included well that's because noone is included yet. We are passing ideas for the creation of a group if you don't want to join..well.. don't. It's pretty simple. We are not looking for input from people who have no interest in joining, we are asking people that would like to join for input on what this group should represent.

 

Gm,

I understand your concerns that we may not know each other but every group must be started by someone. Quasar has volunteered, you may not know him. I don't know him but he is willing to start this up adn once started we can elect or choose who will run it but there must be a groiup first. It would be impossible to hold a meeting where people from all over Ontario can attend. This Forum has been set up for that purpose. If you have questions ask them, if you have concerns express them, if you have ideas you would like to implement suggest them but do not dismiss the idea because we can't all drive down and meet.

 

I hope that not everyone gets scared off by a few negative comments.

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How can we as a group have any input here when you never invited us to a meeting where you talked about all these good idea's.

 

I don't know you guys from a hole in the head, I've never met you, what do you know about my concerns? What do you care? You do not speak for me and if anyone asks I will tell them as much

 

These two concerns would not exist if you had both attended some of these cacher get-togethers and met all those that are concerned about the future of Geocaching in our Province. Although these events were of the social nature, the topic of organizing certainly were informally discussed and ALL cachers were invited. We now have the opportunity of moving forward to the next level. Lets take it there and see how it shakes out.

 

Get-together

Another

And Again

Again

Yes Another

Yet Another

 

Cheers, Olar

Edited by Olar

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I would like to see an organization that:

 

Promotes Geocaching in Ontario andprovides a voice for those Geocachers that choose to become members of said association.

This associaton would have a Governor or Board of Governors who main duties would be organizational.

 

Someone must take the reigns. I realize some here might want a full constition, law enforcement and judicial system in place before we do anything but how can you write laws and codes for a group that does not yet exist? I say lets form this group and begin to take steps to formalising it. If there are some that do not wish to participate untl a full Government is in place than let us proceed and then you can decide whether or not to join us.

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From Algonquin Bound: Posted: Dec 20 2003, 01:18 PM

 

You have made it clear that you are interested in the political setup. You have not offered a single idea about what you feel the organization should stand for, should do, how it might be structured or anything. That is exactly my point. We could get bogged down in this debate forever and it is pointless. We are trying to proceed with something positive here and leave the negativity out of it. If it turns out that The Blue Quasar is an evil villain, trying to take over the world, via the sleepy geocaching community, we'll oust him. What really are your concerns? If the community decides to forego Roberts Rules, in lieu of good old-fashioned trust, what is the problem?

 

I have to agree with Algonquin Bound's concerns I have yet to see any positive input from gm100guy. Watching this thread is becoming akin to watching a ferris wheel go round, its great the first time around but after that you know where its going.

 

I am beginning to think that gm100guy may have some other political motivations at heart rather than the betterment of the geocaching community. Since this thread seems to be stuck in a rut I did some reading at gm100guy's MSN group

 

From: gm100guy  (Original Message) Sent: 14/12/2003 1:45 PM

There is alot of talk now of setting up a Geocache Association in Canada or in the provinces.

 

We could use the members here as a start and maybe form one for Ontario here.

 

Anyone interesed ?

 

I think the parks problem is now being handle by cache tech and he is making about as much inroads as we have done.

 

I think we need to go broader as seen on the forums as now there is problems in the consevation areas also.

 

gm100guy

 

From: Medicp1  in response to Message 1 Sent: 14/12/2003 8:36 PM

Count me in for an Organization, either Provincial and/or National.

 

From: JPesadilla  in response to Message 1 Sent: 16/12/2003 12:29 AM

A Canadian Cachers Association??  The CCA?

 

I'm in

 

What we really don't need is infighting and political motivations at this time. If you would like to be the one to lead this group please state your intentions on this forum. Since this is the accepted forum for Canadian Geocaching concerns wouldn't you think you should state your intentions here? We are all trying to be upfront and honest to present possible solutions to our cause. Having secondary motivations and schemes will only breed mistrust.

 

Reading deeper into gm100guy MSN Group:

 

From: gm100guy  (Original Message) Sent: 07/07/2003 6:57 PM

I have been in contact with a writer about the parks problems we are having.

 

So far I sent some background information from the forums at geocache for her to read.

 

I wll keep you informed on the results and we can see what happens.

 

After the last forum discussion at geocache I would like to keep this thread here for now.

 

gm100guy

 

From: Jayloki  in response to Message 1 Sent: 07/07/2003 7:31 PM

I would certainly post it in the Geocaching forum. Good or bad  alot of good ideas could spawn from it possibly.  Don't let a past thumping deter you from letting the rest know what's going on.

 

 

If you wish to develop our trust in you as a possible candidate as leader, I for one would, as a concerned cacher would like to know what has been done to date from your end. Reading messages suggesting hiding information from the approved forum does not instill great confidence in your ability to negotiate on my behalf.

 

What I am trying to say with all of this is lets work together to find a solution. Let's present innovative ways to present our sport and the good it can do.

 

Let all those who wish to lead be upfront and honest and as a group we will choose a leader. Once a leader is chosen lets move forward in making this thing happen rather than chasing our tails.

 

I agree that a general meeting of all interested geocachers would be all but out of the question because of the geography. I doubt that many would drive in from all four corners to debate something which can be discussed and decided here on an open forum which Groundspeak has so graciously given us.

 

Lets face it, those who read the forums are probably the more informed and interested of the cachers. Once the ground work has been laid for the group in this forum we can easily dessiminate the groups existence through various means such as local get togethers and information placed in our caches etc.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

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I dnon't know who designed the SOGA logo but could we get them to redesign it to the Ontario Geocahcers Association?

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dnon't know who designed the SOGA logo but could we get them to redesign it to the Ontario Geocahcers Association?

 

How about Ontario Geocachers Association instead?

 

Just kidding

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

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I mean really, you've posted a message asking if everyone agrees with the name and the logo and you're nominating a president and we don't even know what you stand for.

 

Putting the pissing war aside and all the flames.

 

The above is all the we want to know about what you are doing. If you have had all these meetings at all the gatherings then come out and tell us about what you want to do and what you stand for. I need a vision.

 

Let us read the booznet forums so that we can be informed as much as anyone else.

 

I do support having a association but if you want to be heard and be able to talk to anyone you have to have the numbers and show that you are organized before anyone will listen.

 

So coming here and posting like you did that sounds like 6 guys met at Horton's. And decided to form a group to represent us with no input got some upset.

 

Going back to my msn site I did ask if about forming a group and as I got 2 response I could see the interest there.

 

Reading messages suggesting hiding information from the approved forum does not instill great confidence in your ability to negotiate on my behalf.

 

I never knew that these were the only forums for discussing geocaching.

 

So go ahead and organize and good luck.

 

:D

Edited by gm100guy

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It has been stated by many that the logo and name has not been picked. The logo posted was one that was mentioned that someone liked. The logo was posted as starting point for thought. It is the same as this quick thrown together logo here...

176932_1000.jpg

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:D I would just like to add my reply in here. I know I really don't have the time or will to organize or run an Ontario Geocacher's Association/Group/Society. I appreciate all of the efforts being made to get this thing started. I will join, support & help in any way I can, whatever group is formed.

 

Donna G

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As asked for input on this subject, here is a what I think we need to use as a starting point.

 

Geocache Association

 

If I was to start an association for Ontario the following is what I think we should promote and use as a vision.

 

1. Get after the parks staff and have them get the guidelines out in the new year so that we can use them as a starting point for dealing with all levels of governments in Canada.

 

2. Go to local govenments as most caches are in small parks under there control and use this as a way to promote tourism in said area.

 

3. Have clinics for newbies to teach them all the rules and guidelines from the gc.com web site and the policy for parks in Ontario.

 

4. Have media blitz and get the word out about or sport and increase public awareness.

 

5. Promote and hook up with other groups of like minds and have CITO events with them.

 

6. Use our knowledge of local areas and be willing to volunteer to help the authorites do searches for missing persons.

 

7. After we form here in Onatrio we help others form groups across Canada to form a national association.

 

8. We have to form a group that follows the standard rules and procedures thus making the association above reproach and have it seem that it represents the majorty of cachers in Ontario.

 

9. We will not be just a web based association, You will be able to but a face to name when dealing with us. The said web site will be hosted at some where that is an open and public place so it is not under ones own domain and under there control.

 

10. We will push for and try and get our voice heard by the owners of the gc.com web site to input our views when it comes to making or changing the rules of this sport.

 

11. Teach and promote that a gps is a tool and not the only object you need to navigate in the woods. We will run map and compass courses for anyone interested.

 

12. Promote and have local chapters in all of Ontario and have them represented at a provincial level by a rep to over come the travel requirements and give all a voice at the association.

 

gm100guy

 

:D

Edited by gm100guy

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Thanks GM that's the kind of positive and constructive input we need. Those guidelines are great. Would you care to run for an Oraganizational role? would you be willing to Coordinate with someone or a group of people to write a set of goals and set up the organization? I tink you have some obvious talent for this sort of thing.

 

Does anyone else hae some rules/regulations/goals they would like to have this organization stand for? lets get all ideas out in the open.

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I would like to express at this time what my intentions would be if I was to lead a unified geocaching group or association.

 

1... Develope a web site presense to provide the following items

 

1a)... Information for geocachers of discussions with government groups with respect to geocaching policies within, but not limited to, their regions. This would include transcripts of the meeting.

 

1b)... Detailed regional files for local geocaches, including .loc's for the region and multi-cache series (eg "Sweet 16" cache as a downloadable loc file), and hopefully if people would like this feature, a rating system for every cache. This would be useful to people that are going to be caching outside of their normal area. As an example, if a person from London was going to Ottawa, they would be able to see at a glance the local caches and know what to expect from any cache based on previous finders information.

 

1c)... Listings for Event Caches/CITO Caches and potentially charity and/or media events.

 

2... To be a contact point for Geocaching.com and Provincial government so that we as a group can voice our position on key issues of geocaching in Ontario. This would be a small group of people but more than just one to provide information and clarify what geocaching means.

 

3... To provide a location for Regional interests groups to find out what geocachers are doing in their area and contact us in the event of any concerns so that all persons can find satistfactory results and rights and privelledges are not infringed upon.

 

Realistically, I see GO or OGA or whatever name is ultimately chosen to be a group by the Geocaching community for the Geocaching community. A group that can be approached by government groups and other special interests. I do not see our group as one is dictate terms or push ideals upon others. I do think that any groups that is formed should immediately contact Parks Ontario, the media, Geocaching.com (through Cache-Tech) and as many other geocachers as is possible so that those groups are aware of our existance and so that they can contact us as needed.

 

Lastly, I am concerned that there has been discussions with groups such as Parks Ontario and the Hamilton Conservation Authority to name a few that have been handled with secrecy and privacy. This discussions should be posted for all to see, good or bad, and we all should know what has been said so far, where things stand as of December and what plans for the future have been made. Cache-Tech has said he/she has talked with various groups and progress is being made. I think that this group needs to join with Cache-Tech and be a part of the discussion. That should not be one voice that has taken it upon themselves to speak for the masses without having been appointed, and then keep the comments and discussions private. That only breeds distrust and paranoia.

 

I think that the group could be very informative and useful, without being primarily politically motivated.

 

:D The Blue Quasar

 

Oh, and the SOGA logo was requested by me for informational reasons only, not to promote this as the official name/logo. I think SOGA is too restrictive as a name, and I agree that the logo is great and needs to have the text edited so suit the name of the group.

Edited by The Blue Quasar

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Parks threads on gc.com web site

 

The above link is all the threads about our talks with Parks Ontario.

 

Lastly, I am concerned that there has been discussions with groups such as Parks Ontario and the Hamilton Conservation Authority to name a few that have been handled with secrecy and privacy. This discussions should be posted for all to see, good or bad, and we all should know what has been said so far, where things stand as of December and what plans for the future have been made. Cache-Tech has said he/she has talked with various groups and progress is being made. I think that this group needs to join with Cache-Tech and be a part of the discussion. That should not be one voice that has taken it upon themselves to speak for the masses without having been appointed, and then keep the comments and discussions private. That only breeds distrust and paranoia.

 

I am glad we finally have some kind of response of what this group is standing for.

 

But I do take offence that you think we have been doing alot of the parks work in secrecy, if you go to the above link you will find it was all in the open. And if it is not there it is on the web site I started for this topic. By all means if you want to take over this work and set us back to the beginning go ahead and waste over a year of work already done by alot of concerned cachers already.

 

If you go to the current thread about Ontario Parks you will find the lasted from the government representive that we have been talking to and they say that they are still working on the guidelines. it is not our fault that the wheels have been turning so slow.

 

I think that the group could be very informative and useful, without being primarily politically motivated.

 

I think right now that the way things are running in regards to everyday geocaching there is no problem. But what we need to do is get politcally motivated before more levels of goverment decide to ban geocaching through out Canada as has happen in alot of locations in the states.

 

And I would be willing to stand up and run on my 12 points of what we should represent as an Ontario Geocache Association.

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I am seeing to points of view which are causing a rift here.

 

1. Wants a political motivated front for Geocachers.

2. Wants to increase awareness and profile of our activity.

 

I do not see these as mutualy exclusive. Why can't we have two organizers? Would BQ and GM be willing to work together to form our association? We could then have the best of both. Gm brings to the table a history of negotiations with government officials and BQ brings experience and willingness to develop the web/social aspect of the association. I see both these points as being crucial for this group and if we can get past a couple of toes getting stepped on and some ruffled feathers we could see that one of these guys may not be the ideal organizer but together they could be. Let's get this thing going together not start pulling ourselves apart before we even join together.

 

I don't think anyone has been trying to be secretive I think they have simply been talking in their circles and planning on smaller scales. GM may no thave involved us in his talks because he probably didn't know we were interested. I have found that he and Cache-tech have answered any questions I have had as to what they have done in the past.

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I will not engage in any type of war of words. I will restate facts.

 

I have been contacted by gm100guy, his email is attached below.

 

I only want to know what has been discussed with Parks Ontario, and who is doing the talking. This has been asked repeatedly and from more than just myself, and yet there is no reply.

 

Throwing statements of vagueness like "we", "us" and "a lot of geocachers" does not provide a contact point. Who are these people that you speak of gm100guy?

 

THIS is the reason we need to band together, so we all know what is being done. If the future of Geocaching in Ontario is at stake then we all should read what is being done and said at these closed door meetings.

 

It's just like OLAR said, there have been many well publisized events for people to get together and discuss a group. Everyone has always been welcome and they have been very spread out geographically. Many people have made the effort to attend these "meeting of the minds" and now thanks to Algonquin Bound the ball is finally rolling. Many people are reading this thread and not commenting, and I wish they would, because I think everyone needs to say what they want. People have spoken of this for a long time, it's time to act.

 

I too see where this is going, and to use a political statement, it is philabustering. No one would dispute your passion on this topic, there just doesn't appear to be any progress.

 

Everyone in this forum knows full well where I stand. I believe in open communication and getting organized now.

 

:D The Blue Quasar

 

attachment:

--->full copy of email sent to The Blue Quasar by gm100guy

 

Hello Blue,

 

I think it is about time we stop the pissing war about getting organizied.

 

I have been vocal because it seemed that from the first post that you and bunch of cachers had started this organization and had not consulted the masses.

 

Some of the cachers that have been speaking for you and your group pissed off some other cachers in having named you as the leader and naming the group already. The cachers that are the silent majority that have never been to a pub night or your cache events are feeling left out of the process.

 

I have had some emails that support what I have been doing on the thread because we want an open discussion about this and want to have all included in the process.

 

But good debate is also healthy and we are now getting more positive responses to forming a group for Ontario.

 

As I look at some of the posters in the thread they are or seem to be newbies, what we need to do is get the senior members of Ontario to sit down and solve this problem about what we need to stand for and what direction an association should take. But to do that we need to look like we are serious and are a legit reps of all cachers in the province and not just a few that met once or twice and started this.

 

I still think we need an open meeting for all who wish to attend and get there input and start from there instead of the way we are going right now.

 

And please leave the parks thing alone right now as we are making good head way there and we do not need to rock the boat at this time.

 

Hoping to work with you and have a good association to represent the geocachers of Ontario.

 

Lets work on a good date and place we can meet in the new year.

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I was hoping sending a private email to you and offering to discuss our differant thoughts would have helped all get along and make progress on our efforts to unite all cachers of Ontario.

 

Posting a private email is not the way to go in helping the cause.

 

I have never been or will I attend a close door meeting with the Parks staff, any information that has come from them has and still well be posted on the web somewhere.

 

Asking who are these person's that I have talked to, I will provide the informartion when you tell us who was at your meetings and decided that you would represent me without consulting me and asking you to be president. Maybe we could read the minutes of said meeting.

 

So as far as I can see this thread is going to go nowhere and become a war of words and I am going ask that is gets closed by cache-tech.

Edited by gm100guy

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I am sorry to see this come to this. When I first suggested this in the other thread I was hoping to have a friendly group of like minded people with the interest of Caching at the forefront. Apparently that will not come from this.

 

Cache-tech I wish you the best of luck with your negotiations.

 

GM I hope I have not lead you to believe that I had any closed door meetings or alterior motives to my suggesting we unite.

 

BQ I apolgize for possibly getting you into this deeper than you wanted.

 

Good Caching everyone and see you on the trails.

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I think an Ontario Association would be a good thing and I hope this thread can get back on track with ideas, thoughts and nominations. I have exchanged emails and have had the one quick meeting with Parks Ontario, the details are pinned to the top of this forum. There is not much to say there, I became involved more after I became an approver at the end of July and took notice of caches being removed by park officials in Ontario and Quebec I thought it would be prudent and beneficial if I made contact. There have been nothing behind closed doors or secretive, I have tried to answer all questions.

 

I look forward to working with an association here, to assist and continue working with the parks, the public and fellow cachers. As a cacher, I regularly cache in 3 provinces and hope to expand on that, I also hope Geocaching remains permitted in all areas of Canada.

 

If everyone agrees, we should pick an IRC channel and discuss things in real time on a specific time and date, or even on a weekly basis to get to know one another and figure out our goals.

 

I also don't think that any email sent privately should be displayed in the forum without permission from the send and that it should be removed. It is bad form to do so, does not help the situation.

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The reason that I posted the email is that I have stated I do not wish things to be conducted in private when it pertains to issues of Geocaching in Ontario.

 

I have asked repeatedly about the meetings that have happened with government agengies. Cache-Tech, you have always replied in the forums exactly like you just did. You said exactly what has happend so far and I applaud that.

 

I have tried my best to not get into a war of words with anyone. I have asked about the identity of this other geocaching group and also for any information of the discussions. These requests have been ignored.

 

Sending a private email to me was effectively shutting everyone else out. I will not conduct that type of exchange. I think everyone should know what anyone is saying about geocaching in Ontario. To take it to a private email means that open forum is closed.

 

I have not been made leader, nor has anyone else. I do not feel ANYONE has the position or authority to act for Ontario caching at this time, except Cache-Tech acting on behalf of Geocaching.com

 

I fully support the exchange of ideas in open forum.

 

There has been too much talk, it's gone on too long and no one voice should dicate how geocaching in Ontario should be operated.

 

I do not plan to dicate anything, as I have shown time and time again, but am more interested in getting an informative site operating and informing government officials of our existence. That's all.

 

:D The Blue Quasar

 

You know where I stand, you will not shake my resolve.

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Wow! Here we are talking about becoming an organized Association and we cannot make it pass page 1 of our own forum. If you are serious about this then we should work things, issues and agenda out here or at a formal meeting.

 

As I look at some of the posters in the thread they are or seem to be newbies, what we need to do is get the senior members of Ontario to sit down and solve this problem about what we need to stand for and what direction an association should take. But to do that we need to look like we are serious and are a legit reps of all cachers in the province and not just a few that met once or twice and started this.

 

This statement is the only one that I take offence to by GM100, ***************GM 100 you can fill in the (*)’s with whatever adjectives you wish for a personal description of yourself. I have been compassing and hiking or orienteering long before you were born. I did not need an electronic marvel called a GPS to get me into the woods or around the city. So before you qualify yourself as an expert in the rough (because I or we have been a member longer then you) I think you should leave your GM100 at home and trek cross-country with one or two people that can go outside without a pair of batteries.

 

Now you can take your expert opinion and get something going here or sit back and watch and whine while someone starts something up. I do not need yours, geochaching.com's, Halden's or Blue Q's permission to start it is only a courtesy I may wish to offer you.

 

Walk into a Legion some day, or the political circle and you may hear references that may apply to a few of the not newbies. Let see “Ousting the old guard for progress” or “breaking into the old boys circle.” I do not think that this was ever intended or implied by some of the newbies. But when you sit back like you have and offer nothing but vague and non descript situations what do you expect in return.

 

If be a newbie is such a terrible thing then maybe you should ask that all members with a status of less then 6 months, a year or less than 100 finds not be allowed to post.

 

One another note I do GeoCache in Ontario and I do not remember you asking me If you could represent me as an Ontario Cacher as implied by your website

http://groups.msn.com/GeocachinginOntario/homepage

 

I did however notice the self pat on the back that you gave yourself 2-3 hours prior on your own site trying to stir the pot.

 

From: gm100guy (Original Message) Sent: 12/21/2003 10:07 AM

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=60582

 

Above is a link for those who don't read the forms at gc.com.

 

Some are trying to form an association for Ontario geocachers.

 

I have been a bit vocal about there methods on forming this group and you can read about it there.

 

I support forming a group to represent us, but I think that the way they tried to do it with out first consulting the whole community was wrong.

 

I have posted what I think should be goals of and group that wants to represent us.

 

So if you want to see a group formed and have input on it please go and voice you concerns on the gc.com web site.

 

gm100guy

 

Let me see I might just start The Ontario Association Of Newbie Geocachers a sub Orginization of the Ontario Compass and GPS User Of The GeoCachers of Ontario.

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:D Still wanna do this B.Q??? lol!

 

The S.O.G.A. name and logo was simply my first kick at getting something on paper (or, more correctly, on pixels). I'm by no means married to the name, or the logo. In fact, I think an Ontario-wide organization is much more appropriate. Easy to modify the logo at any rate. Easy to trash it too. Makes absolutely no difference to me.

 

My own Bozznet forums are open to the public. Unfortunately, the hosting server has been undergoing some reconfiguration headaches and isn't available at present. Doesn't matter really. Bozznet is just my own personal space. THIS is the proper *forum* for these discussions.

 

I think it's terrific that cache-tech has taken up the cause with the Parks folks. Keep up the good work, and please, keep us informed of your progress. Most of us appreciate it. As an *official* gc.com representative you at least have a viable organization behind you.

 

And that's what this is mostly about... getting our own viable organization.

 

The INITIAL discussions about organizing a group were, in fact, more centred around a Golden Horseshoe group. Not Ontario. Not Southern Ontario. One of the main functions of this group was going to be to help organize some of our local events (pub nights, picnics etc.). Not much more was planned.

 

Those discussion grew. The scope grew. The geographic area grew. To the point where we expanded the discussion to include anybody at all who cares to take part. This isn't about a *power play* by one or two individuals. Think about it... how could that possibly work? For those individual cachers who don't care to take part, that's just fine. The *organization* isn't going to be able to dictate what those folks can or cannot do!

 

Anyway, I support the idea of an Ontario wide group. I think it would be a great way to get more of us together for picnics and other events. It would also give us a tangible voice in any future *geo-political* matters that may impact our hobby. For what it's worth, I also support B.Q. in an organizational role. He didn't originally volunteer to be President and Grand Pubah. He simply offered to get the ball rolling.

 

-TT-

 

I now return you to your regularly schedule diatribe from that other guy.

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cachengrab, let me be the first to join your "Newbie" organization. When I read your comment gm100guy, I was SO FURIOUS that I had to walk away and try and calm down. Okay, I'm a hormonally and vertically challenged female too which puts me in another category entirely! You're not making friends here, gm100GUY.

 

Whew, thanks for letting me get that out.

 

From my years of experience as a Manager of Volunteer and my schooling in the field, let me tell you that EVERYONE no matter who has a valid point of view and should be allowed to express an opinion. I suggest you do not dismiss anyone due to any restrictions. Newbies or those new to any organization usually have a fresh view on things.

 

I have not been caching as long as most of the people in this discussion but I have attended as many of the event caches as have been offered in this area and I have over heard some of the discussions of 'organizing' a group. Other than TT's logo, that's as far as it's gone ... until now.

 

I applaud all those who have taken the idea and have started the groundwork. I know it's not easy to move forward with this sort of thing, I've been involved in new startups in the past. Emotions are running high right now (and I suspect the season has contributed to some of this). Once the dust has settled a bit I know that we can move forward and have a great cohesive group. There are alot of really dynamic people that I have met in the past 6 months! We all want the same general thing, and I know we can be adult about it and reach that goal.

 

I look forward to the IRC chats or whatever it takes to get this off the ground.

 

Thanks for allowing me my .02 worth.

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I agree wholeheartedly with TrimblesTrek! This discussion started as a friendly get together to discuss how to advance a passion we all share, GEOCACHING! Plain and simple end of story. Yes, the scope of participation has been tossed about (Tim Horton's on the corner of 4th and Nowhere, regional, provincial, national) I really don't think the scope makes any difference. All we are trying to do is ORGANIZE. I think anyone with a true interest will follow suit and offer up some good advice and ideas. Thats what a forum is all about. We need to get started PERIOD! BQ was nominated to help head the launch of the organization, and he accepted the responsibility. The motion was more than aptly seconded by a number of people. GM100guy has stepped forward and nominated himself as a candidate (I think he did anyways, it wasn't really stated) If there is support for his nomination please let yourself be known.

 

Like cachengrab, I too am insulted by your newbies comment.

Downgrading people new to the sport (Newbies) does little to show any respect for the person. Those people who you look down upon could well be the one person with the right contacts, insight to proposal presentation, community status etc. who can offer us more help than those who have been caching since day one. Seniority has no value here, determination, mediation skills, public relations and promotional skills do. I started my hiking with a good old fashioned compass. Didn't need any batteries to find my way home either <G>. Does that make my venture into geocaching any less significant. I have grown to love the sport and want to continue to be able to do it. I am not normally a vocal person unless it is for a cause that I feel passionate about. To these I give 100% effort as I am sure many others here do as well.

 

Cache-Tech has represented us as cachers on behalf of GC.com, but ultimately as Ontario cachers (of which Cache-Tech is part of) we must work with GC.com based on the rules and guidelines to resolve the issues as they present themselves.

As in all things in life compromise is the way that things are resolved.

 

My feeling has and always will be that the best starting point is EDUCATION. People do not know what we are all about, lets teach them. Whether it is the guy you meet on the trail who asks what that crazy looking box your carrying is, right down to the landowner you are trying to persuade to allow you to cache on his property. So if the first step is to form a website let's do it. Invite others to join, put together groups to work on issues etc.

 

Lets put this to bed once and for all and begin working towards a common goal. Having served on an inaugural board in the past, I can say we went through the same type of problems but as adults we COMPROMISED for the betterment of the group. I'm sure we can set a timetable and have a review to see how well our goals are being acchieved and if necessary make changes to get our goals back on track.

 

To start things off, we need a leader to draft a plan, delegate responsibilites, and oversee what is being done (I don't think we will have a shortage of manpower with the number of offers of assistance) . One person cannot do everything, nor should they have to. Lets remember, this is a group effort.

 

Happy caching!

 

Logger

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I hope we can keep the lines of communications open. We have started to make some head way as to what people want out of an association. We have had differences but that is to be expect. Lets put the difference aside and see our comon goals. i believe we can debate things civilly and calmyly and make come real progress.

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