+rusty_tlc Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hypothetically speaking, what if there was a technological solution that would allow you to geocache without a web site? Finding caches would require a $300 piece of electronics in addition to your GPSr. Hiding caches would require the above and a $15 device for each cache. Would you not participate in the non-existent forums? Would you find this type of cache? Would you hide this type of cache? Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Free vs $300. Let me think on that one. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Free vs $300. Let me think on that one. Hey no constraints, no big brother. Just you, your gps and a set of coordinates. Quote Link to comment
Jeremy Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I don't have a big brother. Probably not. What is my motivation? Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 There would be a real hunt. In other words you would use the electronics to find the coordinates to the cache. The idea is based on the Hare and the Hounds games HAM guys play. Quote Link to comment
Jeremy Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Fox hunting doesn't require a GPS, so I'm unsure how you would apply the GPS concept to that sport. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 Actually Hare, not Fox. The Hare is a transmitter, the Hound is a reciever, HAM radio operators have been doing this for years. Lets call the $300 unit the Cm3000. Your CM3000 sniffs around for a cache when it finds one the cache transmits it's coordinates. The CM300 automatically loads these into your GPSr, with the CM2000 ($200) you load the coordinates yourself. I really don't remember but I think my PC cost slightly over $300. So in a way it could be considered a deal. Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Fox hunting doesn't require a GPS, so I'm unsure how you would apply the GPS concept to that sport. He knows what your talking about. Curious, why the coyness. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 He does? What should I do? Quote Link to comment
Jeremy Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 He knows what your talking about. Curious, why the coyness. Clue me in. You're giving me way too much credit. Quote Link to comment
+sept1c_tank Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Would you not participate in the non-existent forums? I'm unsure as to how I would participate in non-existent forums. Hypothetically, if I could participate in non-existant forums, I most likely would. If I needed a $300 piece of equipment to hide and seek caches, probably not. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Would you not participate in the non-existent forums? I'm unsure as to how I would participate in non-existent forums. Hypothetically, if I could participate in non-existant forums, I most likely would. If I needed a $300 piece of equipment to hide and seek caches, probably not. What are you sitting in front of? Quote Link to comment
Jeremy Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 If I needed a $300 piece of equipment to hide and seek caches, probably not. What are you sitting in front of? Oh. D'oh. I thought you meant a $300 piece of equipment exclusively to be used for this activity. If I could roll this Commodore 64 along with me, I wouldn't mind the cost since I own it already. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 He knows what your talking about. Curious, why the coyness. Clue me in. You're giving me way too much credit. Hare and hounds pre-dates geocaching by I don't know 30 or 40 years? I'm sure somebody out there knows and will correct me. Sombody hides a transmitter, the Hare. The rest of the group use directional receivers, Hounds, to find the Hare. Sound familiar? Quote Link to comment
Jeremy Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Yeah. It's called fox hunting (or also on that page, T-hunting). But you sound like you know of something else. Quote Link to comment
+CO Admin Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I know of this that you speak of. why would I do this when I can just go caching. IM confused?? Quote Link to comment
+Renegade Knight Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I have heard of the game and I'm not a ham. It is geocaching in it's larger sence in the same way the letterboxing is geocaching. Maybe not in equipment but in spirit. I think there is room in the hobby for 'special equipment' required caches like that. The other day someone had the idea to distort the earths magnetic field with a powerful magnet and that's how you find the cache. These kinds of caches can be done. It wouldn't be as popular as plain old caching but what the heck. Quote Link to comment
+bons Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Let me think about it. I'd own a $300 peice of hardware that has only one use, to find items hid by other people who had already paid over $300 for the ability to hide an item no one else in the local area could find. I'm thinking early adoption is a serious issue. And I'm also thinking a lot of the early adopters are the kind of people smart enough to figure out how to build the same devices themselves for a lot less. Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I know of this that you speak of. why would I do this when I can just go caching. IM confused?? Why go geocaching when ya could just go for a walk in the woods/park/city, etc. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Let me think about it. ....... And I'm also thinking a lot of the early adopters are the kind of people smart enough to figure out how to build the same devices themselves for a lot less. Now there's an idea! Home brew a transmitter receiver set. Heres is what I actually had in mind. The game is slightly different than a fox hunt. The transmitter is primarly a receiver that waits for an activation signal to transmit a brust of data, coordinates and maybe some text. This saves power and a time delay between responding makes detection difficult. If you were to do a web search you might find a telemetry application note for a module set that would do this. Since the transmitter just relays the coordinates it wouldn't need to be with the cache. You could put the cache in the hills then place the transmitter on the exit sign from the freeway. What about power- solar in rural, urban..... well there are ways to get free power in urban settings. The receiver would actually broadcast the universal activation signal. When a cacher is cruising the interstate they hit the transmitter, it broadcast it's info and shuts down. Meanwhile the led's light and piezo's buzz. A bright individual could probably figure out how to interface the other half of the telemetry unit to a pda, and form there to a GPS. At any rate there would be a few sites that would share after the bright folks figured it out. The cacher reviews the coordinates and whatever info is provided and decide to go for the cache. Inside the cache is a validation code. Well never mind that. Quote Link to comment
+nincehelser Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I have heard of the game and I'm not a ham. It is geocaching in it's larger sence in the same way the letterboxing is geocaching. Maybe not in equipment but in spirit. Not only is it a game, but an exercise with a practical application. People intentionally jamming a frequency aside, sometimes someone's transmitter accidentally is stuck in transmit mode....like the mic slides down in between a car seat and forces the PTT button closed. If the car is in motion, you've got to track a moving target. That can really goof up local communications, and be a real personal embarrasment. Not only because a bunch of fellow hams had to track you down, but because what you might have said that went out over the air without your knowledge. I hope that never happens to me.... George Quote Link to comment
+nincehelser Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Hypothetically speaking, what if there was a technological solution that would allow you to geocache without a web site? I was thinking there could be some interesting variations of the game that are pretty low-tech. Like publishing coordinates and/or clues in the personals section of a local newspaper. Of course, that is going to require a some critical mass of local geocachers to work. George Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Oh. D'oh. I thought you meant a $300 piece of equipment exclusively to be used for this activity. If I could roll this Commodore 64 along with me, I wouldn't mind the cost since I own it already. Okay. Add up how much your Commodore 64, printer, and ISP access cost. Multiply by the percentage of time the equipment is used to access whatacache.com forums, review/download/print cache pages compared to other uses. Add the cost of paper and ink to print cache pages, if that applies. Remember this is over the entire amount of time you plan to find caches. Couldn't come to $300,........could it? Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 hare and hound game is also practiced for "black box" recovery. They emit signals, which are triangulated by search teams till they find it. Practical application of a hobby. Haven't had to do a real SAR yet in unfamiliar territory, but gps usage, mapping, orienteering, are all something I'll be able to draw on in event of a real search and rescue. Quote Link to comment
+Mark.B Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 There is a cache in Vermont that uses Direction Finding. Placed by DXHunter. View the cache here GCGZWF The Radio Cache Quote Link to comment
Keystone Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 rusty tlc, I don't have an opinion about your fox hunt variant (and I shouldn't express an opinion as a moderator even if I had one). But the reason I am writing: Could I volunteer to moderate your non-existent forums? That sounds like more fun than being here. Actually I'm hoping Jeremy will give me a raise if I threaten to jump ship. Quote Link to comment
+bons Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 I can't possibly imagine being paid enough to do your job. You have to do it either out of the kindness of your heart or (more likely) because you're a masochist. ----- Ok. So my car needs a transmitter. If I lived in California, I'd have one already, (FasTrak toll transponder if I recall - anyone from Cali have a good link?) I know people have build their own receivers for those things and I belive you can do so in such a way as to recognise the id. Now you simply have the receiver send power to some small pirate radio station. Due to antenna size and transmit power only the local cars would be able to hear it even if they happened to have their radio tuned to the correct frequency (and nobody leaves their radio turned on and tuned to static). So, at this point, cost to the cacher is $0. Cost to the placer is high but it makes for a fun mystery cache for those in California. Drive to NXX YY.YYY WIII JJ.JJJ and tune your radio to 100.0 FM and listen for further instructions Mr. Phelps. Quote Link to comment
+seneca Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Why would I want to drive down the highway waiting for my receiver to receive some cache co-ordinates, when I can get thousands of them from the internet? I am sure that there are other technologies that we could use to get cache coordinates, but I can't imagine any that would be as effective as a well designed website. A good geocaching site (like this one) is also much more than just a place to obtain co-ordinates. Quote Link to comment
+Johnnie Stalkers Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 How about the medium-tech approach? Place the "Clapper" and a tape recorder in an ammo box. when in Range of the CLAP the tape recorder gives the coords of the real cache. Hmmmm... bunch of people walking around the park clap caching or caching the clap. Be funny to watch. Seriously, Fox Hunt sounds like a different game all together to me. No, I probably wouldn't invest in any equipment unless someone who is already doing it could show me and I liked it. Now come up with the Clap Elk hunt and I am in. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 rusty tlc, I don't have an opinion about your fox hunt variant (and I shouldn't express an opinion as a moderator even if I had one). But the reason I am writing: Could I volunteer to moderate your non-existent forums? That sounds like more fun than being here. Actually I'm hoping Jeremy will give me a raise if I threaten to jump ship. "Would you not participate in the non-existent forums?" But If you want to not moderate the non-participants, be my guest. I could not pay you twice as much as you make now. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Why would I want to drive down the highway waiting for my receiver to receive some cache co-ordinates, when I can get thousands of them from the internet? I am sure that there are other technologies that we could use to get cache coordinates, but I can't imagine any that would be as effective as a well designed website. A good geocaching site (like this one) is also much more than pointed out. just a place to obtain co-ordinates. I think somebody already made the statement, "Why hunt a geocache when you could just go for a hike?", technology is fun. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Now you simply have the receiver send power to some small pirate radio station. Due to antenna size and transmit power only the local cars would be able to hear it even if they happened to have their radio tuned to the correct frequency (and nobody leaves their radio turned on and tuned to static). So, at this point, cost to the cacher is $0. Cost to the placer is high but it makes for a fun mystery cache for those in California. Drive to NXX YY.YYY WIII JJ.JJJ and tune your radio to 100.0 FM and listen for further instructions Mr. Phelps. You have the best ideas! You could get one of these AM transmitters, a solar panel to power it, and do a really cool cache! That's why I tell my stupid ideas to the smart people. Dump......dump, dump,....Dump......dump, dump......Dump......dump, dump dadadadum. Good morning Mr. Phelps. Quote Link to comment
mortonfox Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 Lets call the $300 unit the Cm3000. Your CM3000 sniffs around for a cache when it finds one the cache transmits it's coordinates. The CM300 automatically loads these into your It would probably be simpler to locate the cache based on signal strength. Then you won't need a GPSr. Quote Link to comment
mortonfox Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 How about the medium-tech approach? Place the "Clapper" and a tape recorder in an ammo box. when in Range of the CLAP the tape recorder gives the coords of the real cache. Hmmmm... bunch of people walking around the park clap caching or caching the clap. Be funny to watch. I've been to a cache where there was a doorbell button at the coordinates and you find the cache by pushing the button and listening for the doorbell. I thought that was an interesting twist on the cache hunt. Quote Link to comment
+Brenin Tegeingl Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 See GCGRGB Geocache Children in Need Fox Hunt. Recently run in the UK, by Mark "TheCat", for details of a geocache fox hunt. He has a telemetric unit in his car, which uses GPS to determine its position, the Hounds send a text query to the unit, which then texts back its position, heading and speed. Its the up to the Hounds to work out the Foxes position so that they might put themselves in a position of intercepting the Fox. This year the UK geocaching community raised over £1300 for CIN, THRU this Event Cache. For anyone interested in the technical details Mark can be contacted thru his GC.COM profile, The Cat. I know he will be very helpful in supplying the technical details. Dave Quote Link to comment
+seneca Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 (edited) Why would I want to drive down the highway waiting for my receiver to receive some cache co-ordinates, when I can get thousands of them from the internet? I am sure that there are other technologies that we could use to get cache coordinates, but I can't imagine any that would be as effective as a well designed website. A good geocaching site (like this one) is also much more than just a place to obtain co-ordinates. I think somebody already made the statement, "Why hunt a geocache when you could just go for a hike?", technology is fun. O.K. I get your point. I take it you are not suggesting "a better mousetrap", but rather a different type of caching game using a different technology, where instead of going on a search to a preplanned destination, we use technology to go out on a "prowl" looking for prey. I guess I can see some attraction in that. Edited December 17, 2003 by seneca Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 People intentionally jamming a frequency aside, sometimes someone's transmitter accidentally is stuck in transmit mode....like the mic slides down in between a car seat and forces the PTT button closed. If the car is in motion, you've got to track a moving target. That can really goof up local communications, and be a real personal embarrasment. Not only because a bunch of fellow hams had to track you down, but because what you might have said that went out over the air without your knowledge. I hope that never happens to me.... George That happened to me once in the ambulance on the way to a lame call. Dispatch heard all of our disparaging remarks about the patient's alleged complaints, complete with obscenities about dispatch itsself......kinda got wrote up for that one. Back on topic, I think the $140 or so that I've spent on GPSr's and other knickknacks is plenty for geocaching, and don't think I'd shell out another $300 to $500 for this one. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 How about $75? Quote Link to comment
+sept1c_tank Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 On the hypothetical plus side...A minimum of $300 of specialized equipment for hiders and seekers might have an astonishing impact on the problem of "junk in caches." Quote Link to comment
+Marky Posted December 17, 2003 Share Posted December 17, 2003 If this were free (such as, having a travel bug you have to find to get the use of the transponder), I might do it once. Having to waste gas driving around until I hear a beep is a ridiculous notion (to me). I definitely wouldn't do it more than once. --Marky Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 17, 2003 Author Share Posted December 17, 2003 Lets call the $300 unit the Cm3000. Your CM3000 sniffs around for a cache when it finds one the cache transmits it's coordinates. The CM300 automatically loads these into your It would probably be simpler to locate the cache based on signal strength. Then you won't need a GPSr. The transmitter is primarly a receiver that waits for an activation signal to transmit a brust of data, coordinates and maybe some text. This saves power and a time delay between responding makes detection difficult. ..................... ............Since the transmitter just relays the coordinates it wouldn't need to be with the cache. You could put the cache in the hills then place the transmitter on the exit sign from the freeway. Having to waste gas driving around until I hear a beep is a ridiculous notion (to me). Hummm, good point that. Oh well. Quote Link to comment
Captain Chaoss Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Now come up with the Clap Elk hunt and I am in. I was told "the clap" was something you wanted to avoid at all costs, and you want to get it from a MOOSE ?!?!!? Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 Now come up with the Clap Elk hunt and I am in. I was told "the clap" was something you wanted to avoid at all costs, and you want to get it from a MOOSE ?!?!!? ROFLSHINPMP!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment
sanfranseeker Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 nerds, all of you nerds Quote Link to comment
+Johnnie Stalkers Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 (edited) Now come up with the Clap Elk hunt and I am in. I was told "the clap" was something you wanted to avoid at all costs, and you want to get it from a MOOSE ?!?!!? I was trying to be subtle. I said ELK. Moose Clap? No way. Edited December 18, 2003 by Johnnie Stalkers Quote Link to comment
+Sparky-Watts Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 nerds, all of you nerds Johnnie, Captain Chaoss, rusty? Are we nerds? I thought we were techno-geeks. Ok, now I'm confused...which is it? Quote Link to comment
+Johnnie Stalkers Posted December 18, 2003 Share Posted December 18, 2003 I prefer the term technically inclined. If the above comment was directed at my(our) "sense of humor" (attempt at humor if you choose) then yes, we are nerds. Obviously we are not alone. We should start a group, something techy but athletic that will appeal to a wide range of people, catch on world wide and then the nerds WILL RULE THE PLANET. Oh, wait a minute....that's geocaching. Now If I can just figure out which end of the stick I'm on. Quote Link to comment
+Squirrel Nut & Beersnob Posted December 19, 2003 Share Posted December 19, 2003 Finding caches would require a $300 piece of electronics in addition to your GPSr.Hiding caches would require the above and a $15 device for each cache. Would you find this type of cache? Would you hide this type of cache? At basic minimum, all you really DO pay for caching is the GPS and batteries. Internet access is available at many US libraries. And at work. Coordinates can (and I've done this a time or 2) be written on a scrap of paper. So really, the 'paying for the computer, paper, ink, etc... ' is an invalid argument. I think it might be a neat crossover type activity for some, that already have this type of equipment. But would *I* pay $300 for another gadget to find this type of cache? Would I pay $15 a pop (in addition to the normal box/trinkets) to hide this cache? No. Even if I had the $ to spare? Still no. Why? Even living in a major metro area, in reality, how many others would buy this $300 equipment, and hide $15 transmitters? How will I know there's caches out there to be found without blowing $300? How soon 'till some hotshot figures out how to alter the $15 transmitters to make them appear to be his own, and start swiping them, using them for his caches? Or worse, start hiding them in ... umm... unappropriate locatoins? With geocaching it's easy: you can see how many caches are in your area before going out and buying a GPS. Quote Link to comment
+rusty_tlc Posted December 20, 2003 Author Share Posted December 20, 2003 Nerd? geek? Probably. $300 to much money who would spend that much to find a cache? Do a web search on wardriving. People are spending much more money and time on this activity than we spend on caching, and there are probably more of them than there are geocachers. The problem is the activity is only marginaly legal. The interest in this activity would go away if it were legitimized. If you haven't heard of wardriving and don't want to do a web search it is basicaly driving around with a laptop, wireless network card and an antenna made out of a pringles can. The game is finding "open" Wi-Fi points or AP's (access points). In it's harmless mode you use a GPS to mapp the "hot spot". In it's sinister mode you hack the network and launch a spam attack, or play some prank. (BTW:if you have a Wi-Fi network in your home, change the factory set password, now, no really just go do it.) Now picture a couple of horned rimed glass wearing, Latte drinking, tech support guys sitting in a corprate parking lot it thier Jetta waving around a pringles can. Did sombody call me a geek? Quote Link to comment
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