Leatherman Tools Are Now Banned

December 16, 2003

Geocaching banned in Ohio park because of knife

2.6k · December 16, 2003

The inmate argument is valid only where there is park-cleaning done using inmates. We don't have that.

1.2k · December 16, 2003

I don't think anything should be banned from caches. Lets say you're out in the woods and come across a well equipped cache. All of a sudden you hear a twig snap then a loud roar and a bear is on you and takes a bite out of your leg. You just reach in the cache box, take out the grenade and toss it down his throat as he tries for another bite. After blowing his head off, you then have to take care of your leg. You reach in the cache box and use the knife to cut up your shirt for a turniquet. Then pull out the hatchet to make a crutch from a good sturdy tree limb to help you get back to the car. But before you leave, take the loaded handgun out of the cache so you can fire 3 SOS shots for help. Be sure to also take the alcohol to help numb the pain. Last but not least, sign the logbook with....Took grenade, hatchet, knife, handgun, and alcohol. Left bear.

Edited December 16, 2003 by The Navigatorz

December 16, 2003

Ok,

so no playboys, no knives, no leathermans, no drugs, no "adult" toys.

Dang, sounds like my livingroom, kitchen, and garage are definitely NOT going to be approved as cache locations.

In all seriousness....

I grew up with Dad's Playboy magazines on the coffee table (I suspect I evaded "THE TALK" by reading those magazines), a whole kitchen full of knives and other sharp things, and my Dad's workshop has just about every single tool a woodworker, plumber, roofer, mason, tile layer, carpet layer, etc... more than one older sibling had copious amounts of recreational pharmaceuticals at their disposal (wasn't interested in them though...one was completely "mind blown," the other had multiple visits from various law enforcement officials) the "adult toys" thing well I can understand that as well.

I do understand the no drugs, adult toys, and porn in caches....but a leatherman tool???

yeesh...

yet another reason to list on navi-cache website as well.

December 16, 2003

I'm assuming you are all are aware that people can go to stores and buy Leatherman tools, right?

And if that person were to buy a Leatherman, walk outside and cut up some little old lady standing at the bus stop, that would be tragic.

But... would they close the store?

No.

Would the store be chastised for selling the Leatherman?

By some bleeding-heart liberal whiners... maybe.

Would there be restrictions on that store for future sales?

No.

Would they be prevented from selling them to minors?

No.

So, we are talking about the potential for danger with some item found in a cache that is listed on Geocaching.com. Fine. Maybe we should all be concerned about other items found in common areas...

I have knives in my house and I have never been stabbed. Even when my psycho nieces have come over.
I have been to restaurants where there are knives, bottle openers, skewers and even open flame broilers. To date, I have suffered no injury at any of these establishments even though minors were allowed to touch the hardware.
I have been to bars where people have darts, pool cues, glass bottles, steak knives and very sharp-edged paper menus. Luckily, I have escaped injury.
I have had a Swiss Army Knife of one sort or another since I was about 6. I have only injured myself once... about 3 months ago when I was absentmindedly trying to close the blade. That's almost 30 years without incident.

Why do restaurants, bars and other establishments get away with it? How can they possibly mitigate the liability? Can you imagine if all restaurants removed knives because they constitute an undue risk to patrons?

The issue here is responsibility. Our societies have progressed to the point where we are expected to be responsible with items that could be dangerous. Even when those things appear to be inconsequential (many of these have already been mentioned):

Pens can (and are) used as deadly puncture weapons
Screwdrivers, pliers, and wrenches are similarly lethal
Cache containers (like ammo boxes) could kill if wielded properly
Keychains, slinky's and other lengths of metal/plastic/twine/rope can be used to choke/garrote

The restaurants aren't removing the cutlery in fear of their knives being used in a killing. Bars aren't shutting down the games room because they worry about pool cues being used to maim.

I think it's simply too easy to make arbitrary judgements on what should/shouldn't be in caches because people are afraid of what irresponsible people will do. It is the actions of the irresponsible that we should be concerned about. Not the items we put in a cache.

(edit for spelling)

Edited December 16, 2003 by MrPeabody

December 16, 2003

Again I'll voice my opinion. I'll place in my cache whatever I want to. It's my cache, if you don't like what's in it, don't do it. Simple. If someone finds something in it and does something irresponsible / dumb with whatever it is then they are the moron.

And this does not mean I put anything in the cache that shouldn't be there (or shouldn't be there according to "you" or the "rules"). I'm just saying it's my cache and I'll do with it what I like.

I get fed up with the attitude of liability all the time. Why don't people use their own brains for a change instead of wanting others to do all the thinking for them?!

It's a game! This argument is pathetic. The rule is pathetic. Put whatever you want in YOUR cache.

If I get a warning for this, big deal. It's a game people. Lighten up and use your own common sense. Heck, here in Vancouver we even have caches near (very very close) to nudist beaches. Something wrong with that too?

No one is forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do. Kids can find many things. I doubt they'll find a cache all alone on top of a mountain. Get a life. Get real!

RobertM

Geo 17, 25, 27, 35, 39E-LMX, 40A-LN, 65, 104, 109, 114, 133, 134

December 16, 2003

The issue here is responsibility. Our societies have progressed to the point where we are expected to be responsible with items that could be dangerous.

I think it's simply too easy to make arbitrary judgements on what should/shouldn't be in caches because people are afraid of what irresponsible people will do. It is the actions of the irresponsible that we should be concerned about. Not the items we put in a cache.

Yah! Someone gets it. Oh wait, you are in Canada. It's those guys down South. ;-)

December 16, 2003

rancid beans

Ethnic slurs are taboo. Some child might consider rancid as an "unacceptable" reference toward frogs.

1.3k · December 16, 2003

Thank god for people like RobertM. I hope EVERYONE does exactly what he does. This is a game that is ruled by the people. I think we can make our own rules. I agree that this game that we all play and love should be fun and safe for everyone, but as long as we arent putting butterfly knives and switchblades in the caches, i think we'll all be alright. Caching seems to go hand in hand with hiking, and camping, and all those other great "boyscout" activities. If the boy scouts is handing out knives to little kids, i dont see the harm in placing a great item (leatherman) in a cache. I know it would be a great change to the usual plastic "treasures" i find in them. I'm always stoked on the flashlight, or compass, or other useful item i find in a cache, and its great when people actually put some effort (and some money) into their cache items. Maybe someone should start the "www.adultgeocaching.com" organization, so we could trade, little bottles of Jack Daniel's, multitools, and maybe some naked girl playing cards! Anyways, until then, i'll keep getting excited about the hunt and the find, and not so much about the goodies.

December 16, 2003

Does anyone really think that kids that geocache are not going to know how to use a knife(or in this case a leatherman) responsibly? How many juvinile cachers are out there who don't cache with an "adult"? My guess is very few. The argument about 'questionable' items, such as multi tools and the like being found accidentily pretty much solves its self in my eyes. Simply, don't place these items in caches that are likely to be found accidentily! That means no unban park 1/1 drive-bys! That could cause a potential problem, I'll give you that. However, these items in a remote, high-star terrain cache should not pose a problem.

I totaly understand Groundspeak's stance on this- they're based in the States, so there's the potential for lawsuits gallore. I don't blame them for trying to protect themselves. I fully agree with what was said before, the cachers should be the ones policing caches. If you find something that is of a potentialy questionable nature in a cache, take it with you. There, issue solved. (somewhat). Personaly, I wonder how far the liability thing is going to spiral out with more and more kids raised by TV, and fewer and fewer parents giving a S' about what their kids are up to. It doesn't take an expert to see that the human species is getting dumber and dumber every year. My question is, what's next?

December 16, 2003

What's wrong with a P-38?

Bret

The P-38s we sent Great Brittan didn't have the superchargers on them (the limies called them Castrated Lightnings), they didn't like them, so they melted them down and made can openers, and handguns out of them.

38.2k · December 16, 2003

Prohibited Articles

Possession or use of drugs, alcohol, fireworks, explosives, firearms, bows and arrows, axes, chain saws, other weapons or cutting tools, and metal detectors are prohibited.

Most other parks have similar rules on the books.

Hmmmm, then I guess we all could have been arrested at our event cache at the State Line Lookout. I thought I saw a knife in the mayo jar. In fact there was a whole box of knives. Granted they were plastic, but are indeed cutting tools and banned as such.

Geocachers will have to keep this in mind for all future event caches. It would certainly give us a black eye if 50-100 geocachers are caught using "weapons" in a park.

Edited December 16, 2003 by briansnat

2.1k · December 16, 2003

Geocaching.com can't police cache contents. Cache owners can't police contents. Cachers can and should. Landmanagers who take the time to ban things should also be willing to check caches.

I have a problem with this part. I think cache owners should be expected to check and police their caches rather than a land manager. Land managers do us favors by allowing the caches and working with us. The least we could do, especially when there are concerns from the land manager is to go above and beyond and ensure things are going right with the cache. If land managers thought we felt they should check them, then they might not just allow them...

2.1k · December 16, 2003

They are in minimun security because they don't have these inclinations.

No, they are minimum security because they lead others to believe they don't have these inclinations.

Even minimum security inmates will do wrong. Sometimes it may be bodily harm to a correctional officer or it may be just taking off and theft. No one will ever know. But as a former correctional officer and law enforcement officer, the thing is that as a correctional officer you know that everyone you work with (inmates) are capable and possibly have the intent. Basically you know everyone is a felon. As a law enforcement officer, it's not always the truth. You don't know till something happens. From having inmates out on details and etc, I much prefer that there be one less blade out there that could possibly cut me.

3k · December 16, 2003

I'll just point out one site in NJ for Briansnat, just to make my point. There are plenty of caches currently in this park.

Park Regulations for Palisades State Park

Purely out of curiosity, how many of those caches were placed with permission from the park administration?

If the answer is what I expect it will be; how are we to ascertain precisely which of Groundspeak's/geocaching.com's guidelines and/or rules are mandatory, and which are optional, at the user's or website's discretion?

2.1k · December 16, 2003

I'll just point out one site in NJ for Briansnat, just to make my point. There are plenty of caches currently in this park.

Park Regulations for Palisades State Park

Purely out of curiosity, how many of those caches were placed with permission from the park administration?

If the answer is what I expect it will be; how are we to ascertain precisely which of Groundspeak's/geocaching.com's guidelines and/or rules are mandatory, and which are optional, at the user's or website's discretion?

I agree...it says use common sense and then uses the word should or shouldn't throughout. It also references them as guidelines only. Admin saying that they can't be there is more concrete and should state as so. Rather than saying you shouldn't put such things in a cache, how about saying it is against Groundspeaks policies to place such items or you may not place such items.?

38.2k · December 16, 2003

Ok, I'm going waaay off topic, but it is my thread

Purely out of curiosity, how many of those caches were placed with permission from the park administration?

If the answer is what I expect it will be; how are we to ascertain precisely which of Groundspeak's/geocaching.com's guidelines and/or rules are mandatory, and which are optional, at the user's or website's discretion?

The guidelines don't require explicit permission. They want you to you have "adequate permission". Since the Palisades State Park does not have a requirement for permission to place geocaches in their rules, then none is needed. In that case, the caches there do have "adequate" permission.

December 16, 2003

Most of our parks here in lower MD allow fishing so if you could not bring a knife or multi tool you'd have a real tough time of it. I do have a bit of a problem with prohibiting multi tools from caches since they are something most of us have and use frequently. I always carry one with me in my caching pack. I would also contest that kids who are geocaching on their own probably could buy those multi tools themselves at the local hardware store. Its a shame we have to be that sensitive these days.........

That being said, I DO think that if you were to allow them that would most likely mean then knives would not be that far behind and then everything else prohibited too. There's plenty of other good stuff to fill caches without including knives, ammo, and the like............. its just where does the line get drawn? Hopefully there is not a need to expand this list further and common sense is allowed to prevail.

3.5k · December 16, 2003

I fail to see how not being able to place a knife, leatherman's tool or even some old used porn in a cache keeps me from enjoying geocaching. And after all that I had to go through to get a cache placed here that Illinois' DNR would approve, putting a knife in a cache be a lot like stabbing us in our own backs here...or foot...or whatever part is basically going to cut us off and keep us from having fun.

Ohio's regulations prove it can happen. I know that we all know better, but is this really worth getting upset about?

Is it or is it not all about the hunt?

Bret

1.3k · December 16, 2003

You know, the more I think about it, the more I agree with the rule. Geocaching.com should be "kid safe". On the other hand, there is a definate need for "adultcaching.com" where the swag contains leathermans, pin up calenders, and things that go buzz in the night.

At one point Criminal asked about an underground cache site and would we do A,B,C,or D? I would like to officially change all my answers to yes and simply assume everyone there is either an adult, has the permission of an adult, or is being raised by wolves anyway since their adult is obviously not paying attention.

There is a need for a kid safe site. And there is a need for a site for adults. Geocaching.com obviously can't be both.

December 16, 2003

Knives are off topic.

This thread is about leathermans.

Shouldn't that be 'Leathermen'?

Edited December 16, 2003 by bug&snake

6.5k · December 16, 2003

Anybody have anything else to add to the list? I really hate to see these horrible items placed in caches where they can kill and maim. Nerf balls are also a problem. How many kids will choke to death on them before geocachers get the picture that they are DANGEROUS?

Logbooks with the metal ring, someone could use that wire incorrectly.

And wood, anything made of wood. Somebody could get stabbed with big splinter.

Then theres the items that are made of heavy or hard materials which could be used to beat someone (sorry Weasel, no more polished rocks!)

3k · December 16, 2003

The guidelines don't require explicit permission. They want you to you have "adequate permission". Since the Palisades State Park does not have a requirement for permission to place geocaches in their rules, then none is needed. In that case, the caches there do have "adequate" permission.

Hahaha! That is ever so funny.

Not asking for permission because the activity is not specifically prohibited = tacit approval = "adequate permission."

Too funny.

For the record, I really don't care whether anyone sought permission to place those, or any other, caches. But I would suggest that in the interest of consistency, "Leatherman Tools" should therefore be permitted in any cache where their inclusion has not been specifically prohibited by regulation or statute of the agency controlling the land on which the cache is located or by the expressed intent of the cache owner.

December 16, 2003

I don't think this thread is so much about Leatherman Tools as what can be done with them. (by kids?) That said, there has to be a sensible limit to the responsibility level that we each must take for what goes in a cache.

The aspect of a multi-tool as a weapon is important from the point of view of a knee jerk reaction from a land manager. The truth is, most of the time, it would be easier, in cache country, to simply pick up a fallen tree limb and do your damage to the guy next to you. (or as someone said earlier, a thump around the head with an ammo box would work)

Kids, adults or 'prisoners' don't need caches to be able to equip them selves with something that can be used as a weapon.

If we were all to take the 'risk free' route through life we would never leave home, perhaps never even get out of bed! I do think that we all have a degree of responsibility to point out dangerous mistakes that we see others making but we DO NOT have a responsibility to go and look for those mistakes being made. And, particularly, we do not have to feel guilt if they happen while we were not watching. I will not accept, however notionally, the task of being conscience for the world.

If your local park or other caching area requires it, then leave such items out of your cache and ask others to do the same but make it clear to the finders that it is for reasons of keeping your 'permit to place' clear and clean.

Otherwise, to be as fanciful as some others, I think I will go get a cache from the woods and zap someone around the head with it then while they are stunned, I will stab 'em in the neck with the nice pointy pencil from the box and feed the small plastic toys to their kids and dogs. Wait, I can tear up that log book thingie as a starter and use the cigarette lighter from the cache to burn down he forest and destroy all the evidence.

Oh, look! What have we here? A local area map, with such innocuous things as local libraries marked on it - lets go there and use the computer to research a small nuclear device for the next cache.

When does the 'Nuclear Devices Are Now Banned' thread come along?

Bottom line - is this site a 'listing service' or the 'conscience of caching'? (I prefer to use my own 'conscience')

December 16, 2003

I note that the “guidelines” as to what can be left in a cache, appear only to relate to the approval of newly placed caches (original contents) as those restrictions only appear in the "Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines" section. There is a separate section in the guide called Finding your First Cache, and it simply says “take an item and leave an item”. I take this to mean that Geocaching.com does not even pretend to regulate what trade items are left, and leave that up to our own common sense (and laws/regulations already in place). In most cases, leaving a Leatherman Tool as a trade, will not defy common sense.

4k · December 16, 2003

I note that the “guidelines” as to what can be left in a cache, appear only to relate to the approval of newly placed caches (original contents) as those restrictions only appear in the "Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines" section. There is a separate section in the guide called Finding your First Cache, and it simply says “take an item and leave an item”. I take this to mean that Geocaching.com does not even pretend to regulate what trade items are left, and leave that up to our own common sense (and laws/regulations already in place). In most cases, leaving a Leatherman Tool as a trade, will not defy common sense.

Heh....I had just finished researching this when I came back and found your post, Seneca. GMTA! I agree to some extent that trade items themselves don't seem to be regulated, though I don't know if I read ALL of the rules and regs. Some sort of common sense is necessary, though. There is another thread that talks about someone having a FTF on a cache that contained a hand-grenade (located here in KS), and they weren't sure if it was live or not. I'm guessing the placer of that cache didn't submit the items that were included when they placed it, and also that the grenade wasn't "live", but you never know. I don't think kids that would be irresponsible in handling knives and leatherman tools should be out alone caching. If they are still at the age where they couldn't be trusted with sharp objects, they should still be monitored by their parents to insure that they don't get into that type of situation. However, looking back to my childhood, I can remember too many times that I was in a situation I never should have been where my parents knew nothing of it. Living in a town with a population of 750 was a bit of a detriment to getting into real trouble, because usually by the time I got into trouble, my folks knew I was headed that way and were already aware of the situation before I got there. I really think this whole topic boils down to parents being parents and teaching their children not to pick up guns, knives, rattlesnakes, etc. Education is the key to avoiding such situations, and parents need to pick up an active role in doing just that. But, then you have to come up with more definite guidelines, because one person's idea of common sense is not necessarily the same as another's. While one thinks a small folding pocket knife may be ok, another may think a live hand grenade may be ok. It's really a matter of perspective, and perspective changes from one mind to another.

Dang, I think this is the longest post I've ever made....hope at least some of it makes sense and was on topic.

3k · December 16, 2003

Actually, I think Seneca simply uncovered another of the inconsistencies one discovers when visiting the various pages of the website. Some of the pages were written long ago and haven't been updated to reflect current policy.

You'll notice it also suggests one "e-mails the owner" about the cache. Clearly, that page is a relic from the days before online logs.

Edited December 16, 2003 by BassoonPilot

3.9k · December 16, 2003

Wow!!! All this over a Leatherman Tool? So far I've seen all the different opinions on why or why not you should leave one. I have yet to see anyone wanting to leave one but can't. You've all seen what are in caches. What are the odds that someone is going to leave an expensive Leatherman Tool in one?

We might as well debate if it's o.k to leave a 2004 Hum-V as a trade. I mean if we are going to argue over a what if situation, let's not do it over something so trivial.

El Diablo

4k · December 16, 2003

Actually, I think Seneca simply uncovered another of the inconsistencies one discovers when visiting the various pages of the website. Some of the pages were written long ago and haven't been updated to reflect current policy.

I'm pretty new here, and I have noticed that. Especially the links on GC.com that deal with the forums. Since the forums were re-vamped they haven't changed a lot of the links that dealt with features related to the old forum software and structure. I keep hearing TPTB are "working on it", but don't see it happening yet, and it's been close to a month now. Of course, I know pretty much nothing about software and computer stuff, so maybe that is how long it takes.

5.9k · December 16, 2003

This was the FTF prize for This cache.

December 16, 2003

Things put in caches can become a problem. Partly also depending on the place/country/laws.

But what about naming caches. I am busy making a two-tier multicache: one is called Master and the other Slave.

I was told that was racist in parts of USA. Luckily I am in the Netherlands. But to spare feelings: should I rename to primary and secondary?

4k · December 16, 2003

Wow!!! All this over a Leatherman Tool? So far I've seen all the different opinions on why or why not you should leave one. I have yet to see anyone wanting to leave one but can't. You've all seen what are in caches. What are the odds that someone is going to leave an expensive Leatherman Tool in one?

We might as well debate if it's o.k to leave a 2004 Hum-V as a trade. I mean if we are going to argue over a what if situation, let's not do it over something so trivial.

El Diablo

There have been several caches I've looked at in my area that offered Leatherman tools as FTF prizes, as well as some that have also offered pocket knives as FTF prizes. I think there are actually a lot of people who do lay down the big bucks not only for FTF prizes, but also for everyday swag.

4k · December 16, 2003

Things put in caches can become a problem. Partly also depending on the place/country/laws.
But what about naming caches. I am busy making a two-tier multicache: one is called Master and the other Slave.

I was told that was racist in parts of USA. Luckily I am in the Netherlands. But to spare feelings: should I rename to primary and secondary?

As long as it's not directly aimed at or related to the slavery that occurred in the US before the Civil War, I think you're ok. There are thousands of references to Master and Slave in use today that have nothing to do with that. Master and Slave cylinders in cars, master and slave circuits in electronics, master and slave role-playing in S&M (not that I would know anything about that), etc.

Slavery was not unique to the US, either. It has been going on for thousands of years, all across the globe.

Edited for spelling and clarification.

Edited December 16, 2003 by Sparky-Watts

5.3k · December 16, 2003

Things put in caches can become a problem. Partly also depending on the place/country/laws.
But what about naming caches. I am busy making a two-tier multicache: one is called Master and the other Slave.

I was told that was racist in parts of USA. Luckily I am in the Netherlands. But to spare feelings: should I rename to primary and secondary?

More info about the Slave/Master situation in LA County.

Urban Legends - Master/Slave

December 16, 2003

You can almost see the future. It lookes like a slow death spiral towards microcaches only since they dont even have a pencil.

5.3k · December 16, 2003

You can almost see the future. It lookes like a slow death spiral towards microcaches only since they dont even have a pencil.

...in biodegradable cardboard boxes.

Edited December 16, 2003 by Stunod

2.6k · December 16, 2003

No, they are minimum security because they lead others to believe they don't have these inclinations.

Even minimum security inmates will do wrong. Sometimes it may be bodily harm to a correctional officer or it may be just taking off and theft. No one will ever know. But as a former correctional officer and law enforcement officer, the thing is that as a correctional officer you know that everyone you work with (inmates) are capable and possibly have the intent. Basically you know everyone is a felon. As a law enforcement officer, it's not always the truth. You don't know till something happens. From having inmates out on details and etc, I much prefer that there be one less blade out there that could possibly cut me.

I agree with this. However the inmates are in the park for clean up and maintenance. The are picking up wire, fishing hooks and fishing knives. In some locations they are cleaning up syringes.

The inmates are also using sickles, shovels and lawn equipment. Sometimes they are driving the vehicles out at the site. They always have the means, ability and opportunity to assault murder or escape.

When they return to the facility they are strip searched to prevent the introduction of these items to the facility.

So the idea that we are providing escape tools to inmates is not an issue. The idea that inmates might touch an item that we place out there is merely in emotional hot topic for the ignorant.

I digress, of course any inmate at any time can go off the deep end. They could for unforeseen reasons take something they find and use it to escape or assault someone. However they have access to items of this nature at all times they are out there. ONLY liberal freaks would want to identify the exact item so they can point passed all the items, they use everyday, and redirect blame somewhere else.

2k · December 16, 2003

A little over five years ago I flew from Rome to San Francisco, in my briefcase was a leatherman. In my pocket was my Uncle Henery pen knife. The locals were serious about security, the guards carried machine guns and there was a tank on the runway.

Nobody looked twice at my leatherman.

What would happen today?

Perceptions change. And a few guys with boxcutters changed this countrys perceptions forever.

I can understand why the guideline was put in place.

2.6k · December 16, 2003

Perceptions change. And a few guys with boxcutters changed this countrys perceptions forever.

I can understand why the guideline was put in place.

SAD!

Lets all crawl in a hole and chant about our happy place.

5.9k · December 16, 2003

Leatherman mentions strip searches, but not body cavity searches. So maybe we should only hide big knives, one's that don't fit in any....er.........cavities.

December 16, 2003

I note that the “guidelines” as to what can be left in a cache, appear only to relate to the approval of newly placed caches (original contents) as those restrictions only appear in the "Cache Listing Requirements/Guidelines" section. There is a separate section in the guide called Finding your First Cache, and it simply says “take an item and leave an item”. I take this to mean that Geocaching.com does not even pretend to regulate what trade items are left, and leave that up to our own common sense (and laws/regulations already in place). In most cases, leaving a Leatherman Tool as a trade, will not defy common sense.

Cool. I'll place the cache in accordance with the guidelines, walk away, use my GPS to find my own cache (which I'll later log!) and then trade all the junk I left in it the first time for the items that aren't allowed. Trust a legal guy to find the loophole! ;-) Thanks Seneca!

December 16, 2003

Anybody have anything else to add to the list? I really hate to see these horrible items placed in caches where they can kill and maim. Nerf balls are also a problem. How many kids will choke to death on them before geocachers get the picture that they are DANGEROUS?

Logbooks with the metal ring, someone could use that wire incorrectly.

And wood, anything made of wood. Somebody could get stabbed with big splinter.

Then theres the items that are made of heavy or hard materials which could be used to beat someone (sorry Weasel, no more polished rocks!)

Rocks! Yes, those rock-shaped geocaching containers are dangerous too. We have a few like that here. A kid could pick one up and throw it at another kid and hit him in the head. The parents would then sue Geocaching.com / Groundspeak. Oh my! What a dilemna we have. The end of geocaching is near! ;-)

Aren't all these pathetic rules just.... pathetic!?

RobertM

December 16, 2003

This was the FTF prize for This cache.

I hope you reported it to the Cache Owner. ;-)

December 16, 2003

Things put in caches can become a problem. Partly also depending on the place/country/laws.
But what about naming caches. I am busy making a two-tier multicache: one is called Master and the other Slave.

I was told that was racist in parts of USA. Luckily I am in the Netherlands. But to spare feelings: should I rename to primary and secondary?

"Master and Slave" racist? What next?!?!? I think there's something in the air here in North America! This is just WAY TOO bizarre!

Call your cache whatever you like. It's "your" cache. But the name could be good for one of those adult-oriented type caches I mentioned earlier. ;-)

December 16, 2003

"Master and Slave" racist? What next?!?!? I think there's something in the air here in North America! This is just WAY TOO bizarre!

If its racist, then they better change the naming convention for IDE hard drive addressing which refers to the first drive as the Master and the second as the Slave. If people in the US south are offended by that terminology then methinks they're taking political correctness to extremes.

_____________

Gorak

Geo 142 131

2.3k · December 16, 2003

Ok children, time to get back on topic.

Play nice, it's a big sandbox

December 16, 2003

I guess I am just stupid... I figure that geocaching.com, Groundspeak... whatever is a listing service for caches... they have guidlines that they want people to follow if people want to list the caches...

Well if you are not happy with the rules them go list somewhere else... this whole thread has gotten very... blah blah blah... you people are repeating yourselves over and over again... now let me repeat myself...

If you don't like the rules and you can't follow the guidelines then go list your cache elsewhere...

And for heavens sake... STOP COMPLAINING!

2.6k · December 16, 2003

I am just stupid...

You said it!

This simple logic has not escaped the people in this discussion. For the most part, we know we are not going to change the position of GC.com on knives/tools.

Your comment is dismissive and disparaging to the participants of this conversation.

If this is to BLAH for you, use your own logic and don't read it.

2.3k · December 16, 2003

OK, this thread is getting a little too emotional.

Everyone calm down, stay on topic and everyone will be happy

It's a big sandbox, Play nice.

2k · December 16, 2003

Perceptions change. And a few guys with boxcutters changed this countrys perceptions forever.

I can understand why the guideline was put in place.

SAD!

Lets all crawl in a hole and chant about our happy place.

Let me state my point in another way:

It's all about perception, or how the un-informed public perceives geocaching. Recent events have changed the publics perception of sharp pointy things.

I can understand why GC.com would want to present the most positive face of geocaching to a casual visitor who wanted to learn more about the sport. It follows that I understand why the guidline was put in place.

Sorry if you read something else into my post.

Me, I like guns, knives, things that go bang, and the occasional porter or lager.

Leatherman Tools Are Now Banned

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