Hypothetically II

5.9k · December 11, 2003

Just suppose that geocaching were suddenly banned in parks at the state and local levels. The authorities will not even open a dialog or consider any petition to change the new rules. They check geocaching.com site to determine where the caches are to remove them.

I’m not interested in hearing about how you would attempt to change the rule, by law, dialog or whatever, just your comments on the following questions:

Would you consider starting a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

Would you participate in a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

Would you hide in violation of the rules?

Would you find in violation of the rules?

6.5k · December 11, 2003

"Would you consider starting a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup? "

I don't know.

"Would you participate in a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?"

Maybe, probly yes. Or get into letterboxing/waypointing/confluence/mintue If they haven't been restricted as well

"Would you hide in violation of the rules?"

What is the reason for this 'rule'?

"Would you find in violation of the rules?"

If it was the only way to get my 'fix' :lol:

December 11, 2003

I would be sad, but probably drop the hobby. I guess I am just too much of a law-abiding citizen to participate in something outside the rules. I hope it never comes to that!!!

:lol:

2.1k · December 11, 2003

I'll never tell....stating so may incriminate myself. :lol:

December 11, 2003

There's rules?..... But anyhow, yes!

December 11, 2003

Geocaching would just switch to Private Property caches.

But to answer your questions -- I'd have to think about it.

December 11, 2003

the activity would just return to the underground, decentralize and continue on ....

Consider something like http://www.infiltration.org/

Tough to argue that organized trespass is a condoned activity, yet a community forms around it anyway.

24.7k · December 11, 2003

Rogue caching.

Pirate caching

Wild West caching

Call it anything you want. We are going to have it anyway. It will always be a thorn in the side of responsible geocaching. However if you ban responsible geocaching it will happen a lot quicker and faster than it would otherwise.

Edited December 11, 2003 by Renegade Knight

3.8k · December 11, 2003

Would you consider starting a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

No.

Would you participate in a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

That would depend on the site.

Would you hide in violation of the rules?

Probably not.

Would you find in violation of the rules?

Definitely. :lol:

I guess my only question is: "Why are you asking these questions?"

2k · December 11, 2003

-Would you consider starting a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

You bet! The first thing I would do is find one of those anarchy cookbooks from the sixties so I could set up a pyarmid type network. That way no one person knows more than three others or something like that. If your going underground do it right, no newsgroup list where everybody could get busted at once.

-Would you participate in a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

Only if it was set up as desribed above. I wouldn't want the man bustin my door down in the middle of the night.

-Would you hide/find in violation of the rules?

Heck yeah! I' take the kids along too, never to early to start teaching them values right. :lol:

Would there be a secret handshake? Secert handshakes are cool.

December 11, 2003

If that happens, TPTB might be moved to start approving virts.

Nah..... :lol:

4k · December 11, 2003

1. maybe
2. maybe
3.maybe
4. maybe

December 11, 2003

Would you consider starting a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

Nah. Been there, done that (another topic.) Too much like work.

Would you participate in a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

Up to the point where the site started sanctioning behavior that was hurting the things I really cared about.

Would you hide in violation of the rules?

I think I'd find another hobby. I'm willing to say "from my cold dead hands" for some things, but not for a hobby.

Would you find in violation of the rules?

See above.

December 11, 2003

I'd sit down and have a cold beer and give it careful consideration. :lol:

December 11, 2003

Would you consider starting a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

No. It sounds like a lot of work. I'm retired, you know.

Would you participate in a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

Yes. Please let me know if (when?) you start one!

Would you hide in violation of the rules?

With pleasure.

Would you find in violation of the rules?

With gusto!

9.4k · December 11, 2003

Would we have underground forums, too? If so, then I'm in!

1.3k · December 11, 2003

no

possibly

no

yes

2k · December 11, 2003

I'd sit down and have a cold beer and give it careful consideration.

Yes but what kind of beer? And how cold?

I'm thinking a nice porter, around 48 or 50 F.

Why? Calndestined operations require a beer with substance for proper consideration, and a porter fills the bill nicely. As we all know porters should be only slightly chilled otherwise the body is somwhat muted.

Now if we were talking about a hypothetical above board operation I would say a Lager around 35 or 40 F. The lighter character wouldn't tend to make one quite so pensive as the porter.

1.3k · December 11, 2003

......we all know porters should be only slightly chilled otherwise the body is somwhat muted.

Ahhhh, that explains why folks can't hear me at the Geocaching Pubnites. After 6 pints my "body is muted". :lol:

Cache on, Olar

2k · December 11, 2003

6 Pints of what? An improper beverage choice at a geocaching event could be the real culprit. Cider would be my choice, but lacking a supply of quality cider in the US I couldn't say for sure. Please send me a case of Strongbow and I will do some research.

This research could be instrumental in the sucess or failure of any hypothetical operation so send the cider right away before the X-mas rush.

December 11, 2003

I'm thinking a nice porter, around 48 or 50 F.
Why? Clandestine operations require a beer with substance for proper consideration, and a porter fills the bill nicely.

A good Porter is the best cool weather caching beer, clandestine or not, I find I can carry my bottle of Black Butte around all afternoon and when I pop the top at the cache site, it's at the perfect temperature for enjoying the moment.

And to answer Criminals question, hypothetically speaking, anarchist caching would be intriguing, especially with a good Porter. :lol:

1.3k · December 11, 2003

Not sure I get the concept. Meaning. what would stop the parks people from finding the "no rules" caches and removing them, too?

December 11, 2003

Illegal caching would definately require drinking the best beer in America. It is brewed in a little part of Philadelphia known as Manayunk... Look for the people that brew Yards ESA... They also brew the finiest Oyster Stout know to mankind... I will send you the coords soon... after I have had my fill. COunt me in as one of the rougue cachers... I will hide a cache on the grounds of the White House.

Edited December 11, 2003 by Gargoyle!

3.8k · December 11, 2003

anarchist caching would be intriguing, especially with a good Porter.

Yes, a good porter could hold my GPSr and sign my log and carry my beer. :lol:

4.8k · December 11, 2003

No.

Maybe.

No.

Possibly.

I like both American and British Pale Ale best.

9.4k · December 11, 2003

Who says there isn't one already?

5.9k · December 11, 2003

Some of you may think all this beer talk is off topic, but think about it, if you're drunk when you get caught in a park, it may give you a good defense at trial. :lol:

I think there are rouge cachers out there, and I support them.

1.3k · December 11, 2003

Would you consider starting a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

I'm too lazy.

Would you participate in a “no rules” geostashing site or newsgroup?

Maybe. Definately not a "no".

Would you hide in violation of the rules?

If I lived elsewhere, maybe, but I think things locally are just peachy.

Would you find in violation of the rules?

I don't know. There's so many caches I still have yet to find. On the other hand, I'm thinking a protest CITO would be so funny as to make it a worthwhile drive. I can just imagine a sign saying "Clean up your act, or we'll do it for you" over a pile of trash bags.

3k · December 11, 2003

I love how this thread went from a poll (with out the clickable answers) to a study in beer and beer drinking temperatures.

and in answer.......

1. no, I can't even figure out how to make my own simple web page.

2. I might but I'd hate to be breaking any laws, I'd hunt caches deeper into the woods so I wouldn't get caught. And no on the newsgroup. Not sure what a newsgroup does.

3. I am not sure. Where's the beer?

4. yes sure I would!

But if most people feel like I do on #3 then there won't be much to find for #4.

Does this have anything to do with that Chicago Tribune article? They seem to tie in together, Criminal.

2k · December 11, 2003

Not sure I get the concept. Meaning. what would stop the parks people from finding the "no rules" caches and removing them, too?

Here, drink this while I explain. (Hands Bull Moose a pint)

The whole thing would be seceret, (what about that handshake?). When a new cache is placed I report it to the contact above me in the pyramid and the people below me. The one above reports to the ones above and below them, and on and on. Every body keeps thier own data and is happy! They can do sorts and exclusive filters to keepout micros. or virts. Does that clear things up? And how is that porter treating you ready for another?

3.8k · December 11, 2003

Who says there isn't one already? (cache on the grounds of the White House)

Is there?

2k · December 11, 2003

Some of you may think all this beer talk is off topic, but think about it, if you're drunk when you get caught in a park, it may give you a good defense at trial.

I think there are rouge cachers out there, and I support them.

I beg to differ, every post that included references to beer was clearly related to how beer affected the Fraternal Underground Cachers Klan. (I just made that up, we wouldn't want to publish our real name.)

Well there was the one about holding the GPS and the other about how good a porter was while caching, but other than that strictly on topic!

5.9k · December 11, 2003

I love how this thread went from a poll (with out the clickable answers) to a study in beer and beer drinking temperatures.

and in answer.......

1. no, I can't even figure out how to make my own simple web page.

2. I might but I'd hate to be breaking any laws, I'd hunt caches deeper into the woods so I wouldn't get caught. And no on the newsgroup. Not sure what a newsgroup does.

3. I am not sure. Where's the beer?

4. yes sure I would!

But if most people feel like I do on #3 then there won't be much to find for #4.

Does this have anything to do with that Chicago Tribune article? They seem to tie in together, Criminal.

It’s sort of an amalgamation of different topics and attitudes I’ve seen in the last week or so.

To make something clearer, the “rules” I refer to in the questions are the park’s rules, not the hypothetical rouge site’s rules.

A newsgroup is how this whole geocaching thing got started! Newsgroups are available through your email program (outlook, or outlook express) and your browser. I’m sure there are people here with better info on that topic than me.

5.9k · December 11, 2003

Some of you may think all this beer talk is off topic, but think about it, if you're drunk when you get caught in a park, it may give you a good defense at trial.

I think there are rouge cachers out there, and I support them.

I beg to differ, every post that included references to beer was clearly related to how beer affected the Fraternal Underground Cachers Klan. (I just made that up, we wouldn't want to publish our real name.)

Well there was the one about holding the GPS and the other about how good a porter was while caching, but other than that strictly on topic!

LOL, just remember that if you stumble, turn loose the GPSr first, it's far more durable!

1.3k · December 11, 2003

Not sure I get the concept. Meaning. what would stop the parks people from finding the "no rules" caches and removing them, too?

Here, drink this while I explain. (Hands Bull Moose a pint)

The whole thing would be seceret, (what about that handshake?).

And how is that porter treating you ready for another?

OK. I see how it would work. It probably wouldn't take long to figure out if some park ranger snuck his way onto the list.

The porter was pretty good, but at this time of the year I'm into darker ales. :lol:

5.3k · December 11, 2003

Yes, no, maybe and maybe.

But not necessarily in that order.

Did someone say something about beer?

December 11, 2003

Who says there isn't one already? (cache on the grounds of the White House)
Is there?

And if so, where?

December 11, 2003

NO

YES to the BEER .................. JOE

3.8k · December 11, 2003

Actually, I think Jeremy meant to post that to the "Start your own rumor" thread. :lol:

December 11, 2003

I wouldn't start my own site, but i'd surely participate, but only in full camo dress, painted face, and with lots of crazy, animated handsignals, even when caching alone. That way, I might not get convicted on the grounds that I might be found insane.

"Look, there goes 'ol Crazy Dave looking for rogue caches...."

"Yeah, but he's not hurting anyone, just leave him alone...."

December 11, 2003

I think anything this fun would find a way to survive. If the "above ground" method was squashed I would definitely take to USENET to see if anyone was hiding coordinates in alt.binaries.tadpoles. There's a whole bunch of underground urban explorers, so I have little doubt that caching would similarly occur both above and under ground.

2k · December 11, 2003

...............................

OK. I see how it would work. It probably wouldn't take long to figure out if some park ranger snuck his way onto the list.

The porter was pretty good, but at this time of the year I'm into darker ales.

Got one of those ales for me?

Yeah thats why we have to be ever on guard, infiltrators are always out there.

Hey, you were right, dark ales are pretty darn good in the colder weather!

I'm working on the secert handshake, I think I'll break out the silly walk sketch and review it for ideas.

4k · December 11, 2003

I'm working on the secert handshake, I think I'll break out the silly walk sketch and review it for ideas.

That may come in handy for another thread I was reading about what to do in case you run into muggles while geocaching and have to explain yourself....a silly walk would be a good deterrant from any muggles even asking you what you're doing! Ya gotta love that John Cleese! :lol:

2k · December 11, 2003

I'm working on the secert handshake, I think I'll break out the silly walk sketch and review it for ideas.

That may come in handy for another thread I was reading about what to do in case you run into muggles while geocaching and have to explain yourself....a silly walk would be a good deterrant from any muggles even asking you what you're doing! Ya gotta love that John Cleese!

Yeah, SLCDave's post gave me the idea. In fact that whole post is great, it would also explain the bottle of porter in the brown paper bag.

I am starting to tre-think the whole porter thing, I can't think of a single revolution in a beer drinking nation*. Maybe we should consider Vodka. The Russians know how to do a revolution! And oysters go real good with vodka, and Kumamotos are one of the best. Maybe Jeremy would send me a couple of dozen to do some research?

* Hey, that whole Guy Faulks thing was a debacule wasen't it?

December 11, 2003

"If it's good enough for Druids,

Runnin' nekkid through the wuids,

Drinkin' strange fermented fluids,

Then it's good enough for me!"

Madok deVoyle

24.7k · December 11, 2003

Who says there isn't one already? (cache on the grounds of the White House)
Is there?

And if so, where?

Here is a site.

http://home.austin.rr.com/lowracer/BANNED_CACHING/

I wouldnt call it rogue though. Not approvable by GC.com or Navicache is much different than what Criminal is getting at.

Most of the sites I've come across list one or two caches in regional forums that don't meet GC rules. The most common is the one time cache, or event cache with caches that only last as long as the event. Others have trade items that don't fit the rules.

I'm not yet aware of any sites that are specifically rogue caching by design.

December 11, 2003

I think Letterboxing in its original form is what Geocaching would return to. My property would have a cache for others to find, and anyone elses property that I could convince to let me place on.

Covert caching is awesome anyhow. Found out recently about Urban Exploring/Spelunking. Sign me up.

Heading for my cache of Guinness right now. Sorry, co-ords with held. :lol:

4k · December 11, 2003

Ok, I want to change my original answers......

1. perhaps
2. perhaps
3. perhaps
4. perhaps

3.9k · December 11, 2003

No problem. I don't even need to think about it.

Yes, Yes, Abso-FREAKIN-lutely & Yes!

2.3k · December 12, 2003

No. Don't know much about doing that kind of thing.

Yes.

Probably. Tho I don't hide now very often.

Yes.

Possibly. I really prefer stronger stuff.

Edited December 12, 2003 by Corp Of Discovery

Hypothetically II

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