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Ontario Cachers Unite


Halden

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Originally posted by The Danielle Boone Gang:

We have to organize ourselves and present ourselves to the powers that be in an effort to save our sport.

 

Perhaps setting up an Ontario / Canadian Geocacher's website might be a good beginning - provide online information about what's going on and provide for a mechanism for cachers to sign a petition.

 

So what is the level of interest in uniting and providing a single voice towards our concerns about the regulations that might be/will be imposed on Geocachers?

Edited by Halden
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look at this site and information.

 

For all you newbies the discussion about the parks has been going on here for over a year and a half.

 

We had a bunch of us working on the situation until Geocache.com appointed cach-tach and others as approvers for Canada. They now have taken up the fight with the Government as official reps of this web site.

 

The big wheels that will make the policy on this have been moving very slow and most of the ones that were talking to the government have stopped talking and are letting TPTB handle the situation.

 

Go to the above link and read the history and do a forum search and get informed first before making hasty plans about fighting the government.

 

Letting one official voice representing us I think is the way to go for now.

 

:lol:

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We have been thinking of establishing a cache near Lac Suel when we are fishing there next summer. What rules do we need to be aware of?  :huh:

;) Lac Seul Islands Conservation Reserve has not yet been regulated, but probably will be soon. You can get more information from here. You may want to check before you hide, cause a cache in a park won't get approved right now.

 

Donna G

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As I have mentioned in other threads I am all for the formation of some type of caching organization. But I will say that I think that our formation must support GC.com in their attempt to further the cause of geocaching in Canada and indeed Ontario. This cannot be a fringe element movement which could possibly sidestep the efforts which have gone on so far. As a group, we have to educate and enlighten both the public and the landowners that Geocaching in general is a positive sport that can have a positive influence on our enviroment now and in the future through the education of children about how they affect the enviroment.

 

I can possibly provide the server space for our group and write some of the website among other things. I for one would like to see geocaching survive so that others may enjoy some of the sights which geocaching has given to me and am willing to offer as much help as I can to see that it remains the enjoyable and enriching sport that it is today.

 

As I see it we need to complete a number of steps in order to form a viable group:

 

  • Create website - showing the positives of caching
  • Organize positive geocaching activities (CITO field days)
  • Create Awareness - All forms of media
  • Create participation - get more people involved
  • Create positive public awareness
  • Create public support
  • Lobby government support based on the positive image and support

After reading through some of the other threads I noted a few posts that really disturbed me. One in particular which sticks in my mind was about a bunch of geocachers getting all liquored up and going out on night caches. In my mind this does nothing to create a positive image of caching. As in all things in life, you are bound to get a few yahoos who can single handedly destroy any attempts to create something good. Things of this nature have to be frowned upon within our community as being not only stupid and dangerous but also causing long term damage to the reputation of the sport in general.

 

We have to demonstrate that as responsible cachers we can not only help clean and protect the enviroment we love, but also educate others as to the benefits of our sport as well as what our sport can do for the enviroment with proper education.

 

My two cents worth. (actually closer to $1.50 with tax I think) :huh:

 

Logger

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Logger,

 

This is exactly the type of organization I am suggestion. I don't feel we need to lobby directly but we should organize so TPTB at GC.com can point and say look at all the people that will be affected by your regulations.

 

We can increase awareness and create some good PR for our sport in our province. We can raise the issues that concern us and bring them to GC.com's attention so they are aware of the issues that affect us. I don't not intend on bypassing or redoing any of the great work the staff at GC.com have done, I simply want to compliment and justify it.

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Honestly, this is something you should be concerned with as well. Once precedent has been set in other areas you can be sure that the other provinces will follow suit with what has been set down elsewhere. So my suggestion to you would to get organized ahead of time rather than scrambling at the last minute to save geocaching in your area.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

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How about Canadian Cachers Association ?

Is this an Ontario organization or a national one? The thread title implies an Ontario one and if so, I object to a name like the Canadian Cachers Association - Ontario is not equal to Canada. I'm not trying to provoke a 'center of the universe' off-thread thing here, just stating the obvious.

 

Our cousins to the south of us seem to organize by state and I'm not sure why we wouldn't follow the same path. Check out Keystone Approver's post here plus this post from the Organized Geocaching forum.

 

Now I know some of you are going to say that we just don't have the numbers that our southern cousins do, and I'll give you that point. But I also believe that there are regional issues that are better addressed by regional organizations.

 

If we had well established regional organizations going, then I wouldn't have a problem with an umbrella national organization that each regional one, in turn, could join.

 

Just my CAN$0.02 worth.

 

PS. MrPeabody and I recently bought and set up www.geocachers.ca thinking in part that this might be a place for all regional organizations to hang their hats, but we haven't developed the idea beyond the chatting about it stage. We did try and get the www.geocaching.ca domain last summer when it was up for renewal, but Ebenezer Thevasagayam (they guy who's sitting on it) renewed it at the very last second.

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I think you should set up local sites in Canada because each area will have to deal with many levels of govrnment and have unique problems to deal with.

 

As we have in Hamilton area right now, This is one level of government making a problem right now but does not affect me here in Toronto yet.

 

It would be easier to manage local groups first and form them and then bring everyone together later to form a larger provincial and national organization later on.

 

I would rather travel a few miles then a hundred miles to go to meets etc.

 

As an example how this could be a bonus for us. In the spring when we try and organize a CITO event a local group could go to a park close to them and then we could maybe go to 10 or 15 parks the same day and get better results and more bang for our buck.

 

Anyone interested in the Toronto to form a group email me and we can see what happens.

 

For a history and to see what problems others have had you should read the UK forms as they have had lots of prblems trying to organize themselfs.

 

:lol:

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The last thing you guys should do is stop working on the issue.

 

That Groundspeak is working on it is fine but in the end it's your group and your province and you are the ones who will be impacted most by the final solutions.

 

A national groups is also a great idea. The provices should work on one to deal with issues that affect all of Canada plus a a place the provinces can meet to discuss their local efforts and gain ideas.

 

Lastly geocaching isn't just geocaching.com. Each group should be ready willing and able to deal with GC, NV, and any other sites that come along. They will all place caches that are regulated by the parks and other land managers.

 

My two cents.

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I can start to gather a list of interested parties.

Who's organizing a Christmas party? ;-)

 

Seriously. I think IF a local group is required it should be local. As I've mentioned before, we don't need one here on the West Coast, so why make a Canadian one? But if you need one in Ontario then by all means I have no problem with that. Also it depends on where the people of from. Could be South Ontario Geocaching Society / Association. Gotta be careful on the acronym, you could easily end up with SOGGY. lol. ;-)

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My thoughts on the subject, (I'm sorry I should have elaborated it a bit more in my post) is this, if we are going to form a group we would wield far more power as a national group rather than small bands of individuals. Inevitably, the problems we are facing in Ontario are going to be revisited in each and every province. So why invent the wheel at every level. If we organize at a national level our concerns expressed to the different bodies will carry far more weight with, say an organization of 2000 cachers than it would with the maybe 200 cachers we would get from Ontario.

 

There is mention that our problems in Ontario do not affect BC. You are looking at it from a very narrow perspective, Obviously there are those of us who travel, so if you were to travel from BC to Ontario and intend to do some geocaching while you are here in Ontario. While you are here doesn't this ban affect you and the quality of the caches you will find? And once the issue begins to arise in your own areas would it not be better if we were organized as a group that has dealt with many of the same issues in different areas and can offer each other support?

 

Yes we will need "locals" for each areas to deal with smaller more local issues, but right now I am just thinking ahead that maybe it would be better to build from the top down.

 

Here's an example: You want to place a cache in a local park, but the person you are dealing with has no idea what geocaching is, you try to explain it, but as his eyes glaze over with your description you can say "Look, we have this website where you can find out more about the sport and its benefits, why not check it out"

Most people would then be able to get a better idea of what we are all about. This doesn't change regardless if we are in Goose Bay NFLD, Dauphin MAN or Prince Rupert BC.

 

I can give you another example, just yesterday I was out with the Daniel Boone Gang and happen to be wearing my GPS around my neck while visting Dundurn Castle in Hamilton. One of the tour guides spotted the GPS and began asking questions. He is an avid canoer (SP?) but has never geocached. We began discussing geocaching with him. He seemed really interested in the sport especially when I mentioned that there were a number of caches in Ontario which are only accessible by canoe and required overnight stays and portages. His eyes lit up. But he still wasn't sure what geocaching involved. I would have loved to have been able to give him a website where he could find out exactly what caching in Canada is all about. And yes we directed him to GC.com to learn more but it would have been great if he could find out more about caching in his immediate area. A canadian site could be broken down to the different provinces so someone could see what caching is like in Algonquin or Banff or La Mauricie or Whistler.

You mentioned that the US has set up a number of statewide local associations. Yes this is true. But you must also remember that the US has 10 times the population base from which to develop the sport of geocaching. So I'm sure that the membership of one state alone could probably equal the amount of support we would be able to muster up across Canada. So the question is do you develop our association in small individual pockets, or do we develop a stronger national identity and from that we can break things down into "locals" ?

 

My thoughts have nothing to do with the "centre of the universe" theory. Yes I live in Ontario and breathe the polluted air of southern ontario but my motives are far from thinking that Canada revolves around Ontario.

 

In short do we look ahead and develop plans and strategies that will benefit the country as a whole or do we spring up with pocket resistance at the last minute scrambling to organize and publicize. The idea is to create public awareness of the sport in a positive light.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

Edited by logger&ail
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In short do we look ahead and develop plans and strategies that will benefit the country as a whole or do we spring up with pocket resistance at the last minute scrambling to organize and publicize. The idea is to create public awareness of the sport in a positive light.

Bingo. Smaller, local governments are moving on the issues and have the ability to move on the issues much faster than larger governing bodies (ie Provinces and Federal). However, they are all most certainly moving forward.

 

A top down approach gives us a greater voice. Perhaps BC isn't visibly looking at regulations, etc. right now, but you can bet they will be once the right people catch wind of caching. Sadly, the stuff that's going on in Ontario will happen there too at some point.

 

I think we need to set up something Like the Canadian Cacher's Association, and establish an Ontario group within this orgainization immediately. If anyone else wants to jump in, they're welcome to do so.

 

This isn't a "center of the Universe thing". It's just that right now, this appears to be where the need is.

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Hi All,

 

I have been exchangeing emails with cache-tech and have let him know what I think about some of ideas going on here.

 

My thoughts are let us work out a solution with the Ontario Parks first and finish with them right now.

 

After we we have guidelines with them we can use it as example for other governments in Canada to use as a guideline through out Canada.

 

We have been in talks with them for almost a year now and the wheels turn slow, but we are making inroads with them.

 

Way back we sent Ontario Parks examples of other guidelines from many states ect, this was to help them with there guidelines. And don't forget they read the forums here and can see what you are talking about.

 

By all means it would be great to have an organization for Canada or the Provinces but lets not go and ruin the good work that some have already done.

 

Lets finish the first battle before we take on the world.

 

:lol:

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From my post of December 11th

 

As I have mentioned in other threads I am all for the formation of some type of caching organization.  But I will say that I think that our formation must support GC.com in their attempt to further the cause of geocaching in Canada and indeed Ontario.  This cannot be a fringe element movement which could possibly sidestep the efforts which have gone on so far.  As a group, we have to educate and enlighten both the public and the landowners that Geocaching in general is a positive sport that can have a positive influence on our enviroment now and in the future through the education of children about how they affect the enviroment

 

gm100guy,

 

I dont believe anyone's intention is to circumvent any work that has been done to date. But I do feel that organizing can be used as an aid in furthering the cause, so to speak. Cache-tech had mentioned that planning CITO activities would be a good start in showing that we are good neighbours, and by organizing we can plan and execute these types of events to show our true intentions. I think at this point most local areas have a loosely structured group of cachers that can be formed into a local. I believe the challenge would be in uniting these small groups together at a larger level whether it be provincial or national. My suggestion for national is only based on my feeling that the more support the better.

 

Happy Caching!

 

Logger

Edited by logger&ail
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Cache-tech had mentioned that planning CITO activities would be a good start in showing that we are good neighbours, and by organizing we can plan and execute these types of events to show our true intentions.

We don't need to organize to hold these kinds of events. What we need is motivated individuals who think that it would be a good idea and just do it.

 

I support gm100guy's position that we should let Cache-tech and others involved in the Ontario thing, or a regional Ontario association, deal with the problems in Ontario. When we encounter the same problems here in BC, and I'm positive that we will one day, then we will look to our friends in Ontario for their experience and guidance, just as we will look south of the border. But I fully expect the fight to be a regional one.

 

My preference/vote is for a bottom up approach with a national association if and when there are enough organized regional groups to support/justify it.

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My preference/vote is for a bottom up approach with a national association if and when there are enough organized regional groups to support/justify it.

I don't know if a bottom up approach will properly depict the growing size of Canadian Cachers. Nationally, there are probably a few thousand. Regionally, we probably look too small to be worth talking to.

 

One of the things I feel is important is for HCA and other organizations who are looking at setting policies around caching is to realize that this is an activity that already has a following, and is growning.

 

Hard to do when you organize bottom up.

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Cache-tech had mentioned that planning CITO activities would be a good start in showing that we are good neighbours, and by organizing we can plan and execute these types of events to show our true intentions. I think at this point most local areas have a loosely structured group of cachers that can be formed into a local. I believe the challenge would be in uniting these small groups together at a larger level whether it be provincial or national

Part of our problem is the fact that cachers do all these nice things like CITO, paying park fees, teach kids how to properly enjoy and respect the environment, but nobody knows about it.

 

I think part of any CITO activity should involve some PR - why not let the media know what we're up to and get some positive attention?? This can only help our cause and get our numbers to grow - and that translates to more caches out there and more acceptance by the environmental groups.

 

This kinda stuff can be done via an organization.

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A couple of the caches I own are on maintained trail systems, each section of the trail is maintained by an individual or a group/organization/association on a volunteer basis, an adopt a trail/park program. If we do form an association, maybe we could look into adopting a few sections of trail or a park or 2 to help keep them clean, coordinated as scheduled CITO events when required. This would be good to show other parks more of what we do as cachers besides hiding a box in the woods.

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This reply is similar to my reply in the "pinned" topic.

 

I agree with the West Coast group in that Ontario should form the group. Keep it as Ontario. I don't hink Ontario is the Centre of the country, we just have the initial response situation.

 

Again, Ontario is VERY big. This alone will be tough to get going, so if Logger and Ail is able to get something started then great.

 

I know everyone has offered their talents of web design, etc. I am not trying to toot my own horn but I would gladly step up to be the co-ordinator or facilitator or however you want to term it.

 

Everyone seems to want it to be started, I'm saying I'll start it. If Logger and Ail wants to talk to me about he knows how to call me.

 

As for gm100guy, I detected from his post that he either has been in the Parks Ontario meetings, or has more of a role with gc.com than the regular cachers. If so, why oppose anyone forming a group? If not, ditto. I understand the idea that bringing attention to the governement at whatever level may have a negative consequence but lack of unity will show that we just don't care.

 

We do, and more than is being shown.

 

:D The Blue Quasar

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BQ - Sounds great, and thanks for stepping up.

 

Setting up a local organization makes the most sense to me... a smaller group will enable people to be more involved and to 'connect' better as a group... and that it could focus on local issues, which would make the whole thing much more meaningful for everyone involved. Never mind the fact that it is only Ontarians that seem to be talking about this right now, at least here. It may be presumptuous to call it a 'Canadian Association' when it is really Ontario. The other provinces can follow suit if and when they see fit. I think it'll be stronger this way, not weaker.

 

Thanks again for the ideas, and the initiative, and I would love to part of any positive organization of geocachers.

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There is a thread in Orginized Geocaching with some great links here, Info Needed From Cache Clubs/organizations, Starting a Club in my Area. There is also a group being formed in the Maritimes, but more for meeting and exchanging ideas, I am sure also to work out any problems when they arise. I am willing to do what I can, last year I even bought a season pass for caching in Parks Ontario and also paid my way into a number of conservation areas. I know we only make up a small percentage of the user fees, but I would not have bought the season pass or visited 90% of the conservation areas if it wasn't for Geocaching.

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Never mind the fact that it is only Ontarians that seem to be talking about this right now, at least here.

Whoa there Purple Fever. We're from the Wet/West/Left Coast. RobertM and Jomarac5 are also from over here. I'm surprised by the general lack of discussion on this topic from all over Canada - I would have thought that this issue would have had more interest/debate. My guess is that people are distracted from the forums right now with Xmas prep.

 

As I've stated previously in this forum, I agree with the points you make and I'll add that I would also love to part of any positive organization of geocachers.

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As for gm100guy, I detected from his post that he either has been in the Parks Ontario meetings, or has more of a role with gc.com than the regular cachers. If so, why oppose anyone forming a group? If not, ditto. I understand the idea that bringing attention to the governement at whatever level may have a negative consequence but lack of unity will show that we just don't care.

 

I have nothing to do with gc.com.

 

I am just a cacher when the parks problem came up I took an interest and was one of the first to contact the government and I have been trying to work with them to come up with a policy that we all could live with.

 

I never said in my post above your reply not to form a group, my reply was to start local and then work up to bigger groups.

 

I think that we are finally getting more cachers involed here is great, it is about time a firecracker went off and we get more together like alot of states have done way before us.

 

:lol:

Edited by gm100guy
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That's great Gm100guy! I honestly have never really gotten a full insite on where you stood.

 

Now that I know you are supportive of a group being formed, at least just for the sake of a unity and centralized place for people to express their love and devotion to Geocaching I will do everything I can to pormote a group for us. Whether it be in a support role or organizer,or fearless leader, or contributor of files.

 

I'm just happy to see everyone have such passion for a hobby that I love too.

 

:lol: The Blue Quasar

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I for one nominate BQ for President/Dictator/Fearless leader. :lol:

 

Seriously if you are willing to grab the reigns and get this thing going by all means do it. We need someone to say OK we are organizing adn this is when, where and how. I will be of all the assistance I can.

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I also am in support of a provincial or national group, with preference toward a Provincial Group for now.

 

I have been involved during the formation of a couple of Provincial groups and it is no small feat to sort through & determine who's "local issues" are going to take priority in the direction that the provincial group will lend it's weight toward. National groups have to sort through Province wide issues and don't lend themselves well to "local/community issues". Therefore, in my opinion, the provincial and local models have to take priority in getting off the ground and starting to function effectively before you can get an continuity in the national model.

 

I can lend myself to the effort as needed, but have been told I am a born idea man and/or problem solver. Unfortunately I also have a poor self-motivation to actually see that the solution gets maintained past it's inception. I have been told I tend to procrastinate. Someday I will have to get around to correcting that flaw. :mad:

 

Anyways, it looks like everyone typing in here is in support of the idea and I look forward to seeing the first article/program/interview where the public is introduced to 'our' group, and whatever positive venture we are engaged in. ;):o

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