More Bad Press

[+WalruZ]

don't know. "like a mantra" in this context has some negative overtones.

 

Taken too literally, it sounds like we're brainwashed cultists

 

you mean we're not?

[+Divine]

Great letter!

 

but you shouldn't use the Sniatkowski  at the end. 

Sniatkowski as a signature is probably received way better in this case than one from some guy who calls himself Criminal.

 

Great letter, Brian, I'll save it in case I'll ever need such arguments in my neck of woods. (Not very likely, but better be prepared.)

 

Edited typo

Edited December 12, 2003 by Divine

[+funkycamper]

WELCOME TO THE LIBRAL MEDIA. Lets sensationalize and write in a durgotory way to make more waves. Jerks.

<<snip>>  To hell with the facts lets take a slanted libral veiw and see if we can start a fight.

 

I see absolutely no reason to bring political ideologies into this. The "liberal" media does this no more than the conservative media does. There are good and bad reporters from both spectrums of political thought. Your attempt to politicize this is ridiculous.

[+CharlieP]

There are good and bad reporters from both spectrums of political thought.

But that's the whole point ... reporters should report, without application of their own viewpoints. But that concept is just about dead, and I think most people these days don't believe ANYTHING they read in newspapers or see on network news ... it all has a spin. This geocaching article is typical ... it reflects the reporter's viewpoint ... has inaccuracies ... and is misleading. When I read a newspaper report on a subject I know, 90% of the time it is slanted, inaccurate, and misleading. So I must assume that this is true about the reports where I don't have personal knowledge of the subject. Almost all newspapers should be labeled as one large editorial page ... all opinions, few facts. Network news is worse.

 

FWIW,

CharlieP

[+sept1c_tank]

...reporters should report, without application of their own viewpoints...

This is correct, and in defense of journalism in general, it is nearly impossible.

Trite as it is, perception is reality. Even history books reflect their author's opinion of the facts.

 

I still believe that most journalists strive for fact. It's just that some facts are debatable.

 

And money comes into play here. Writers and editors generally seek the truth.

Publishers and business managers are concerned with what will produce a profit.

In our society, sensationalism and controversy seem to outweigh the truth.

[+WalruZ]

journalists strive for facts. what's at issue is what facts, and how much striving goes on. if you talk to a land manager who thinks geocachers bury things and pull up endangered plants by the roots, (his comments, although wrong are 'facts' in that he did say them) - do you talk to geocachers who might present a different message? Imbalanced reporting is partly lazy reporting and partly a need on the part of most people (reporters included) to reach conclusions. Balanced reporting is often indecisive and somewhat gray. For example, the newshour on pbs. they get talking heads from both sides of an issue and stand back. 20 minutes later, you have their opinions, but do you know what the 'truth' is? Imagine, if you would, a land manager and a geocacher both on newshour.

[+bons]

Sure, journalists strive for facts, but who cares? News is NOT journalism. It's entertainment. While a journalist may ethically want to be an unbiased truth teller, the fact of the matter is they're not the one publishing.

 

Newspapers, magazines, and television are a business. The corporate entities behind these businesses exist to make money. They aren't legally required to be unbiased, accurate, or truthful. So don't expect them to be, especially if being entertaining or shocking results in a higher ROI than striving for facts. And since finding facts costs money, don't expect them to spend too much time doing it unless they need to.

 

Imagine, if you would, a land manager and a geocacher both on newshour

I'm thinking the ad revenue wouldn't even pay for the cameraman.

[+sept1c_tank]

...News is NOT journalism...

OK. In your opinion, what is journalism?

[+The Leprechauns]

For example, the newshour on pbs.  they get talking heads from both sides of an issue and stand back.  20 minutes later, you have their opinions, but do you know what the 'truth' is?  Imagine, if you would, a land manager and a geocacher both on newshour.

JIM: Good evening, and welcome to Newshour on PBS. I'm your host, Jim Lehrer. On today's program, we examine geocaching, the relatively new sport that combines outdoor adventure with the technology of the internet and the global positioning system.

 

Let me introduce our two guests today, who will discuss the relations between geocachers and land managers. To my right is Fran Mainella, Director of the National Park Service. Welcome, Fran.

 

To my left is a participant in the sport of geocaching, who refuses to provide his real name because there are government people here. He is accompanied today in the studio by his toothless helper monkey. Welcome, uhhh, geocacher and monkey.

 

 

We'll begin with you, Fran. What is the position of the National Park Service in regard to hiding geocaches in national parks?

 

FRAN: We have banned the geocaching activity because nothing can be buried in a National Park.

 

JIM: And what would you say to Fran, mystery geocacher?

 

CRIMINAL: I was just wondering if Fran had anything to do with saving the Spotted Owls, and if so, would that make her a Hooters Girl?

[+trippy1976]

Just this week I have interfaced with two large park systems in Michigan about Geocaching. The one actually sponsors their own geocaching series and has for two years. The other is chomping at the bit to use geocaching as a means to draw visitors to their parks.

 

I think the parks people are coming to grips very well with geoaching. As they recognize the benefits and sort out ways of adequately protecting their interests, things have become more open. At least here in Michigan.

 

One thing I've noticed while working with these parks systems is that having an organization helps, and the other BIGGEST thing they latch on to....

 

Clear containers.

 

Such a simple requirement, but it's so very important to them. PVC pipes and ammo cans are scary.

 

This article is definitely odd, but it does illustrate that despite the park's people paranoia about drugs, etc. in caches... they have turned up nothing. It also admits that there has been no real trouble. Seems to pain the parks people as almost paranoid.

 

One of the parts that bothers me is when it goes on to say there are caches that have not received approval without covering when the caches were placed and when the regulations were set.

 

The park coordinator I spoke with today indicated that in the two years they have been aware of geocaching, they have only ever had two instances they needed to address. One, they simply emailed the person that they would prefer a geocache not be at that location and the owner removed and archived it. The other was a bit more interesting and occurred at a CD exchange. When he started telling me about the trouble with this one, I thought it was going to have something to do with copyrights. However, the hubbub came from an online log where someone "Took beatles, left anthrax." Meaning the music group, but this was misconstrued by a casual observer and reported to the police Anyway. Thanks for the article. Let us know if you hear back from them.

[+Shawn&Holly]

I have heard a few radio spots here in Canada on the CBC and have seen 1 spot on TV of Geocaching on CBC/French, when the sport just started. While the interview was taking place, Insp Gadget of New Brunswick held out his hand with sunflower seeds and as he was being interviewed, chickadees were landing and taking the seeds. I will have to get a copy of it sometime.

[+bons]

OK.  In your opinion, what is journalism?

At this point, mostly dead.

 

It's simply not cost-effective or advantageous to be unbiased, accuate, and factual.

 

Is the truth worth the cost of a paper if it's not exciting? Is an article on geocaching really going to bring in the advertisers or the subscribers or is it really just filler? And if it's filler how much are they going to care about doing it right?

[+Confucius' Cat]

WELCOME TO THE LIBRAL MEDIA. Lets sensationalize and write in a durgotory way to make more waves. Jerks.

<<snip>>  To hell with the facts lets take a slanted libral veiw and see if we can start a fight.

 

I see absolutely no reason to bring political ideologies into this. The "liberal" media does this no more than the conservative media does. There are good and bad reporters from both spectrums of political thought. Your attempt to politicize this is ridiculous.

Is this a liberal/conservative issue?

 

I don't see how the Liberal ideology could be applied to banning something that is not understood by the banner. That seems more like a conservative stance (at least in the literal sense).

 

I tend to agree with Funky Camper, this post is little more than name calling.

 

While it is true, as others have stated, that it is not possible to write an unbiased article (especially if more than one person reads it!), it seems quite inappropriate to label the medium in question as "Liberal". (even though it might be predominately true of said medium)

[+sept1c_tank]

OK.  In your opinion, what is journalism?

At this point, mostly dead.

 

It's simply not cost-effective or advantageous to be unbiased, accuate, and factual.

 

Is the truth worth the cost of a paper if it's not exciting? Is an article on geocaching really going to bring in the advertisers or the subscribers or is it really just filler? And if it's filler how much are they going to care about doing it right?

I am disillusioned, too, by the present trend of journalism.

Journalism is not dead, as you put it; journalism and the freedom of speech are very much alive.

Truth is something people eventually demand, wherever they may be.

At that time it becomes "cost-effective or advantageous to be unbiased, accurate, and factual."

As I posted above, money comes into play. That's what makes the world turn whether we like it or not (whether we like the truth or not).

[+xenophon10k]

At least it ended on a positive note.

Yes, but it's common practice for a journalist to "balance out" an article by tacking on some moderating statements at the end as an afterthought. It does not change the fact that the writer passed on comments about digging for caches, and rangers having to police cache content, without mentioning that we have rules about that sort of thing, and that we police ourselves.

 

People who read that article can come away with the impression that there will be fields full of dug holes, and one of those holes will have a box filled with Hustlers and heroin. The writer really did nothing to dispell that notion.

[+ironman114]

go to the nw forum for a link to a story by the Olympian, a newspaper in the capitol of wash. state. The newspaper even placed a cache and a travelbug with the help of local geocachers!

 

The link can be found at the top of the second page under olympia cachemachine

Edited December 13, 2003 by ironman114