Two Random Thoughts Re:gc.com

December 9, 2003

Here are two things I think about when pondering the situation at geocaching.com, and much of the recent debate in the forums.

I see two issues - I call the first "the problem of scaling regulations to large numbers of people," and the second "the problem of taxation without representation"

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SCALING REGULATIONS TO LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE

Let me create a silly example. Let's say you are a dictator mayor of a town. The town has a flour mill, and an explosives factory, but only one storage bin for completed product.

Let's say there are two people in town: 1 miller, 1 explosives maker. Both are EXPERTS in their craft. The one knows how to store flour safely, so it doesn't get in the air, and the other knows how to store explosives safely, so that air cannot get to them.

Everything's safe. You don't need to do anything. You can trust them to store their flour and explosives however they wish to do it. THERE ARE NO REGULATIONS.

Now, let's say the town has 10 people. 5 of each, of varying talents. As the dictator, you will get to know who are the experts, and who are the losers - in detail. You allow the experts to put things in storage pretty much as they wish, but strictly regulate the losers - watching their actions closely. THIS IS THE START OF REGULATION BASED ON "CLUEFULNESS" OF THE INDIVIDUAL REQUESTOR.

Now, let's say the town has 100 people. Of all talents. You can't know them. So you name 10 as "sub-approvers" who will learn the talents of the others, and let them do what you did when the town had 10 people. THIS IS THE START OF CREATING AN APPROVAL FORCE TO KEEP ORDER.

Now, let's say the town has 1000 people. Of all talents. You can't know them, and you cannot make 100 people approvers - because you don't know them all well enough, so the 10 have to SCALE to 100 workers each. Their solution: Build two warehouses - and don't have the problem. THIS IS THE START OF STRICT REGULATIONS THAT DO NOT TAKE THE CLUEFULLNESS OF THE INDIVIDUAL REQUESTOR INTO ACCOUNT.

Geocaching has reached this final stage. It's normal; it's not fun, but its normal and to be expected.

Here's my personal experience. I tried to place a webcam cache in New Zealand recently - the country's first. It was denied - after review in the "approvers" forum, by a 3:1 margin, mostly because it was placed while we were on vacation, and caches should not be placed on vacation.

Clearly - it is entirely possible to maintain a webcam cache from across the planet! But, the moderators, in the 1000+ people phase, pretty much followed the rules, and didn't take into account how clueful a cache hider I am ;-) However, I didn't judge geocaching based on the experience of denial. I did judge it on the courtesy and respect shown to me by the approver (in this case, dis-approver.) That was top notch. So I am still quite 'happy.'

Largely (with some exceptions) Geocaching.com has retained courteous approvers, who implement policy somewhat blindly - but what else could it do.

However, it must also VERY HEAVILY focus on quickly removing approvers who do not show the best courtesy and set the best example. The approver (I've heard indirectly about) who wanted someone to change the 'back-story' on a to-be-approved cache hidden at a old historic tree to refer to time travel in some wierd way before it was approved, well if that's accurately describing the situation, that approver should be removed from duty - immediately.

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TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION

But I DO think Geocaching.com needs to do something differently in one area. Geocaching is inherently a SHARED activity - it requires the populace to PLACE caches. So GC.COM depends on its customers in a rather unique way. Just like most democracies require people to PAY taxes. How to partially defuse the anger of the taxpayers? As the Boston Tea Party taught us - NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION. If policy not related to safety is set up - the populace must have a say in determining that policy.

I honor Geocaching.com setting up rules for safety. However, the recent choices to limit virtuals, shut down locationless, etc. - well, that would have gone down a lot better if there was some surveying first. We need to have "non-safety" policy put more in the hands of the populace vs. appearing to be dictated from on high.

These are just plain annoying - and those who "approve" of the new restrictions are just, fortuitously, on the side of the arbitrary rulers - this time. When the arbitrary rulers choose against your preferences - watch out.

Geocaching.com really needs to figure out how to SURVEY its population and RESPOND to it by changes to guidelines, setting of policy, etc.

I will not accept responses of "most cachers don't read the forums" -because there are other ways to get to folks. Put policy surveys as big highlighted links on the main page of geocaching.com, refer to them in the weekly cache reminders, and those who don't read the forums will still see them.

--------

Just two random thoughts.

-Jif

December 9, 2003

Very interesting post TeamJiffy; I tend to agree with most of your points.

I am (and have been) very happy with GC.com in general. There are a few times that they have done things I would disagree with. I think a more interactive process with us players/subscribors/customers/taxpayers could have prevented or improved those experiences considerably.

For example, I was quite irritated when TPTB changed the way HTML was processed on the cache pages. I spend a lot of time trying to make nice cache pages, and the change messed up all of my pages. Eventually (pretty quickly actually) Jeremy responded to the numerous complaints, and fixed most of the issues. The reason for the changes (security) was perfectly valid. But I think it left a bad taste for some of us.

The whole situation could have been avoided if TPTB had posted their intentions in advance -- or at the very least posted what they had done when they did it! Instead, it took a couple weeks to play out in the forum. I'd like to think that they "learned a lesson" from that, but I don't think so. Not long after, the images in the forum signatures were banned, with a very similar response (even worse) from the community.

We know they read the forums, so at least they are getting reactions from us. But what they need to do -- as you noted -- is to be more proactive. Survey us, poll us, inform us before you make changes, and keep us informed as the changes are progressing. It will help.

-BeachBuddies

3.9k · December 9, 2003

Let's look at TPTB as the goverment, and we subscribers as residents of a state. The Goverment (TPTB) job is to do what is best for the state. Now we all know from watching the real goverment how hard that can be. No matter what decision you make, there will be some that disagree. We also all agree that TPTB have made mistakes, and when they do, as was pointed out above, they try to correct them. Unlike the real goverment who never admits to a mistake.

Overall I think, and I believe the masses agree or they wouldn't still be here, that TPTB have done an outstanding job. So far I haven't seen them do anything that drove the residents (subscibers) of in droves. What I have seen them do over the years is increase the population (subscibers) in droves.

Try to influence your goverment (TPTB) with constructive suggestions, rather than trying to overthrow them or undermined them. In this case the goverment (TPTB) aren't elected. They own the state. In my observance they have always been open to suggestions and have alway did what was best for the residents.

Thats my random thoughts.

El Diablo

3.9k · December 9, 2003

Very well stated TeamJiffy. I also agree with most of your post. As it is, the current policies of GC.com don't inhibit me from the general enjoyment of geocaching. I can't think of a locationless cache that I absolutely need to get approved. I haven't found a location for a virtual that i can't either place a traditional cache at or otherwise make conform to the policy. Yes the removal of images in sig lines was annoying, the apparent tightening of moderation in the forums is a little curious at times but that doesn't effect me when I'm out on the trail. In general I have had the same experience with any of the admins that I've had to deal with in that they have always been respectful, helpful & courteous. That being said, as this sport continues to grow, there should be a more accountability to the people that support this site. In my opinion, right now there is no other option other than GC.com. Navicache is not even in the same league as GC.com. But eventually someone will come along with some serious capitol and do something bigger and better. It's inevitable. In General, Jeremy and company have done a remarkable job. If they can focus a little more on the desires of the people, it won't matter how much capitol someone has. GC.com will continue to be the standard geocaching website.

2.1k · December 9, 2003

-----------------

SCALING REGULATIONS TO LARGE NUMBERS OF PEOPLE

Let me create a silly example. Let's say you are a dictator mayor of a town. The town has a flour mill, and an explosives factory, but only one storage bin for completed product...

Somebody's been reading up on his Plato...

December 9, 2003

And then the US Fish and Wildlife Service decided that flour and explosives don't mix and promptly banned flour.

No cache (including virtuals, webcams,etc.) is completely maintenance-free. Signs get moved or changed. Cameras get re-positioned or go off-line. Naturally, some are more secure than others and likely would never be a problem.

The problem though lies in that if flour and explosives are allowed to be stored in the same warehouse, the International Federation of Boric Acid Producers will demand their spot. and then Acme Arsenic Association will cry "foul" and demand equal space. And then the Self-Rising Flour will claim Plain Flour is hogging all the good spots.

Sure, some vacation caches wouldn't be a problem, but others are. There have been a few vacation caches placed here in Mississippi by folks just passing through that became maintenance nightmares (i.e. TRASH) for locals to have to clean up.

Yeah, I don't always agree with some of the decisions some approvers, moderators, overseers, owners, frogs make sometimes. They're all human (except the frogs) and most are volunteers. The world will not quit spinning if a webcam cache doesn't get approved or another ''George Washington thought about sleeping here sign'' does. It's also shown to have negligible effect on any of the major stock markets.

2.1k · December 9, 2003

Overall I think, and I believe the masses agree or they wouldn't still be here, that TPTB have done an outstanding job. So far I haven't seen them do anything that drove the residents (subscibers) of in droves. What I have seen them do over the years is increase the population (subscibers) in droves.

Unfortunately, this state is the only one for miles that has a flour mill and an explosives factory and all of the residents are either millers or bombers....so they have little else to turn to if not for here.

I liken this situation more to Microsoft than a town/state/whatever.

Microsoft makes an okay product (Windows) and there are some alternatives (Linux, Mac, others) but none of them offers nearly the same software library because every business, and subsequently home, went with Microsoft and so they now own the monopolistic lion's share of the desktops in the world. But Windows is far from perfect and yet users will sometimes bend quite far to still keep Windows on their computer since it is what they've always known and what all of their buddies are still using and the programmers are still making programs for.

GS is MS. The programmers are the cache hiders. We are all end users. We have no anti-trust laws to protect us against GS though. While TPTB have been *FAR* better than MS (I am in no way equating the use of their monopoly to that of MS!), they have still leveraged it in some ways (death of virtuals...for now?, etc, etc, etc) and we will continually bend to adjust to these new changes because the hiders are still hiding predominantly here on GC.com.

This is why I would favor an archival system that allows anyone to access the cache listings and present them whatever way they would like that best serves their customer base. But the first thing to do would be to get all of the listings that have been given to GC.com...and that's just not going to happen (since it is their moneypot/honeypot and there would be no reason to give up such a monopolistic grip on that much data).

So, it's extremely good that GS has not tried MS-like tactics at this point, but there are better solutions had they been implemented at the time of inception and some of what people complain about would never come up.

3.9k · December 9, 2003

If they had taken the time to consider every possible scenario and every problem that might arise and the solutions to those problems, we wouldn't be posting here today. GC never would have become a reality.

When this site was first started there were plenty of opportunities for others to provide competition. They are still number one for the same reason as MS. They provided the best overall product and still continue to do so. There may be a feature here and there that someone may do better, but with all said and done, this is still the best.

El Diablo

2.1k · December 9, 2003

When this site was first started there were plenty of opportunities for others to provide competition. They are still number one for the same reason as MS. They provided the best overall product and still continue to do so. There may be a feature here and there that someone may do better, but with all said and done, this is still the best.

When this site first started (same as MS) there were a limited number of knowledgable participants (programmers). It becomes the de facto when everyone starts using it and in the case of GC.com (more than MS), the service is fairly monopolistic in nature, since fracturing the coordinate lists makes the listing service more difficult/costly. Of course, multiple listing services are what are required to satisfy more factions but that requires each to have equal access to the coordinate lists, whose time it seems has past for now.

While you may be described by the first quote in my sig, you are incorrect as to what has kept MS and GC.com on the top of their respective heaps. It is not that they provide the best overall product. They simply provide a good enough product and hold all of the cards. In fact, their service would have to be truly dismal to force enough people to walk away from all of the coordinates that are here. There are many OS's that provide a much more stable and efficient product than Windows and there are ways of configuring a geocaching listing service that would provide a *lot* more function and customability than the current setup on GC.com. It is not that they are the best, but only that they are good enough.

3.9k · December 9, 2003

While you may be described by the first quote in my sig,

Is that as a believer or a drunkard? I do like my beer!

El Diablo

3.8k · December 9, 2003

Cluefulness is an arbitrary concept. Do I have a clue? Many would say not. I disagree.

There is no taxation without representation at geocaching.com. You are not taxed. You voluntarily pay them.

There is plenty that our favorite site does that does not please me. But I'm still here.

I don't deny that change should and will come about. And discussions like this may or may not facilitate those changes.

I have a clue.

My random thoughts.

December 9, 2003

For those wondering where I came up with the silly flour mill & explosives example: I was raised in Minneapolis.

December 9, 2003

In regards to placing any sort of cache while on vacation I really think it comes to putting your foot down and drawing a clear cut line in the sand.

If you want to create a webcam cache in a different country or on vacation, what is that approver supposed to say to the guy who wanted to set a virtual on vacation

say thats ok'ed

then someone else comes along and says well this micro wasn't exactly placed on vacation, but its 60 miles from my house... but I promise to maintain it!!!!

Then another guy sees this and tries to place a full fledged multi while his family make that traditional family summer vacation.

Where's the line??? If every cache creator was as committed to keeping up with their caches then this would no be a problem. This however dosn't happen. All to often people lose interest and sort of fade away while their caches are still out in the woods.

If there isn't a clear cut line then I think it would only double the controversy. We'd have a real mess on our hands.

Political correctness rears its ugly head in a sense that "if you get to do that, then by all means I get to do it as well"

As geocaching has grown I'm sure Jeremy has compromised many a time from the first container with a logbook in the woods. while development and progress are 2 very good words they can be wild horses that must be tamed in order to effectively gain anything from them.

I could go on and on (as others) could about what I dislike about certain cache types (lame virts and most locationless [ie log a water tower???] but thats for a different thread.

4.8k · December 9, 2003

I must say that it is very refreshing to see a thread that started out with interesting and meaningful comments, and then followed up with more of the same. Wherever people fall on opinions about GC.com and their policies, it is nice to see people responding with such informative and thoughtful responses!

As for me, I am very happy with GC.com. I have had questions about some of their decisions, while totally in agreement with others. Regardless, decisions have to be made and I respect that whether I agree or not. I also support other groups who seek to organize caching in other ways, such as through open source caching or an international organization. I would hope that GC.com will work with those groups, because I don't view that so much as competition as I view it as an opportunity for cooperation that can benefit everyone if various concerns from both sides are dealt with.

December 9, 2003

Some time down the road I feel sure that someone, somewhere, will come up with the time, ability and inclination to get geocaching into the hands of the geocachers in a way that is 'not for profit'. I see from this thread that this might even be underway right now.

Such an organization IS needed, but make no mistake - it is NOT needed to bring down this website. While this site is not/can not be all things to all cachers it is supplying a good service to us all.

The reason that I say such an organization is needed is quite simply that the cachers view points can not be represented to authority (local, state, federal or what ever) by a 'for profit' corporation without the specter of 'vested interest' raising it's head.

I hope that the action groups that are in the embryo stages, and any other that follow, will be working with this site for the foreseeable future. I also hope that they are working, or are willing to work, with each other. We do NOT need multiple governing bodies in competition!

1.4k · December 9, 2003

Some time down the road I feel sure that someone, somewhere, will come up with the time, ability and inclination to get geocaching into the hands of the geocachers in a way that is 'not for profit'. I see from this thread that this might even be underway right now.
Such an organization IS needed, but make no mistake - it is NOT needed to bring down this website. While this site is not/can not be all things to all cachers it is supplying a good service to us all.

The reason that I say such an organization is needed is quite simply that the cachers view points can not be represented to authority (local, state, federal or what ever) by a 'for profit' corporation without the specter of 'vested interest' raising it's head.

I hope that the action groups that are in the embryo stages, and any other that follow, will be working with this site for the foreseeable future. I also hope that they are working, or are willing to work, with each other. We do NOT need multiple governing bodies in competition!

I don't think that it's so much an issue of profit or not for profit entities ruling over caching. Either way can be equally bad. There should not be a problem with anyone making money for services which they work hard at to provide.

It's been said here previously that the answer lies in an open source database of all caches. This would allow anyone to provide services (for pay or not) in a manner that they feel is the way that the majority of people want. People can choose for themselves which service they wish to use. Obviously, whoever is giving people what they want will get the business/memberships and the profits (monetary or otherwise) that come from it. This is truly a situation of the provider providing to those who choose to have their caches served up in whatever manner they feel best. There are many ways that this can be set up so that no one entity commands absolute ownership of the cache listings.

*****

Geo 35

9.4k · December 9, 2003

For anyone interested in the ideas in this thread, it mirrors the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It's a classic but a long read.

24.7k · December 9, 2003

For anyone interested in the ideas in this thread, it mirrors the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It's a classic but a long read.

Point, set, score.

2.3k · December 9, 2003

For anyone interested in the ideas in this thread, it mirrors the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It's a classic but a long read.

Ok, I'm impressed

December 9, 2003

The comments on this thread are very thoughtful - I appreciate them. Unfortunately, I have to shamefully admit that I have read neither The Republic nor Atlas Shrugged - although the latter has been read by many friends of mine.

The only comment I will make is that I believe a couple of folks mis-read my intent (those who commented on vacation caches.) I gave the 'vacation cache' example not to complain about the disapproval of vacation caches, but to use me as an example of someone who acknowledges the necessity for approvers to follow guidelines strictly/arbitrary when working with large numbers of folks. I respected the decision, and would only have complained if the approver had been rude (100% not the case.)

A much more efficient rendition of my entire first post would have been:

I fully respect that guidelines, once formed, have to be followed uniformly and without taking 'special cases' into consideration. (such as webcam caches are special, or in the most arrogant case, which I don't subscribe to, that somehow I should be given special consideration for whatever bogus reason.) However, I believe that guidelines (excepting those concerning safety) should be formed with formal, pro-actively queried community input.

-Jif

2.1k · December 9, 2003

The comments on this thread are very thoughtful - I appreciate them. Unfortunately, I have to shamefully admit that I have read neither The Republic nor Atlas Shrugged

I just wanted to make it known that the link I provided above is the actual text of Republic by Plato (it's a bit past his copyright now...) as well as over 400 other classic texts from Greek, Roman, and other statesmen, philosophers, and writers. Atlas Shrugged...well, you'll have to pay for that....man, does the irony ever cease around here?

PS - It's a good read, even online, especially for anyone interested in utopic views.

4.8k · December 9, 2003

For anyone interested in the ideas in this thread, it mirrors the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It's a classic but a long read.

Ooh boy, I read that some long time ago and had a hard time getting through it. Glad I read it so I know the reference to it, but boy was that a hard book for me to get into from a purely entertainment reading sort of thing! I also read Fountainhead, and had similar problems. I do respect the works though. But if anything, I enjoyed the Ayn Rand references in a Simpsons episode much more!

9.4k · December 9, 2003

Atlas Shrugged...well, you'll have to pay for that....man, does the irony ever cease around here?

It's a classic. Visit your local library

3.8k · December 9, 2003

It's sitting by the table beside my bed. Been there for a year. I just needed the courage to open that huge book.

Jeremy, you may be my inspiration.

1.4k · December 9, 2003

Team Jiffy wrote:
However, I believe that guidelines (excepting those concerning safety) should be formed with formal, pro-actively queried community input.

I thought there was a point to this thread before it was so rudely taken off track and there it is -- it's about the caching community. Thank you.

I very much agree with the community input aspect of your suggestion. It's a very good one. Now who could be expected to head such a query with a fair and unbiased perspective...

*****

Geo 95M 105

1.2k · December 9, 2003

Team Jiffy wrote:
However, I believe that guidelines (excepting those concerning safety) should be formed with formal, pro-actively queried community input.

I thought there was a point to this thread before it was so rudely taken off track and there it is -- it's about the caching community. Thank you.

I very much agree with the community input aspect of your suggestion. It's a very good one. Now who could be expected to head such a query with a fair and unbiased perspective...

*****

Geo 95M 105

ME!! I could do it!! Let me, let me!!!!!

Wait, what am I volunteering for again??????

2.5k · December 9, 2003

I don't think that it's so much an issue of profit or not for profit entities ruling over caching. Either way can be equally bad. There should not be a problem with anyone making money for services which they work hard at to provide.

The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide— as, I think, he will.

For anyone interested in the ideas in this thread, it mirrors the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It's a classic but a long read.

I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

I knew John Galt. John Galt was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no John Galt.

December 9, 2003

I don't think that it's so much an issue of profit or not for profit entities ruling over caching. Either way can be equally bad. There should not be a problem with anyone making money for services which they work hard at to provide.

There are two issues here I think. One being the ownership of the listings database and the other the representation on geocaching in formal negotiation. While I agree with what you say, it is unfortunate that, in the real world, people tend to distrust the ability of a corporation to be unbiased. It is for this reason that elected governing bodies have come into being - the perception of an unpaid volunteer is easier for most people to see in the same frame as honest and unbiased. The for-profit organization will always be viewed by suspicion as regards private and hidden agendas. (agendas? agendii?)

If the private corporation is flexible enough to work with the governing body and the governing body can respect the corporate entity as a good partner in the combined effort then both can exist together. Unfortunately, such bodies as government organizations are not likely to accept that a corporate representative is negotiating with them for anything other than the interests (read profit) of the company.

Yet again, I think you and I are in pretty close agreement in things here, differing only in the perception. You are very much right when you say that both representative options can be bad. (but you do have the option to vote out the elected ones from time to time) That is not the point I was trying to make however. Thank you for your response, appreciated.

1.4k · December 9, 2003

bug&snake wrote:
There are two issues here I think. One being the ownership of the listings database and the other the representation on geocaching in formal negotiation. While I agree with what you say, it is unfortunate that, in the real world, people tend to distrust the ability of a corporation to be unbiased. It is for this reason that elected governing bodies have come into being - the perception of an unpaid volunteer is easier for most people to see in the same frame as honest and unbiased. The for-profit organization will always be viewed by suspicion as regards private and hidden agendas. (agendas? agendii?)

Can't say I agree with you here. Although there may be some cases where what you say is true, it's my experience that many companies take a VERY responsible approach to dealing with community issues (it's in their best interest to do so).

Perhaps in your world companies are distrusted -- in my world, companies are run by people, and those that run their business with the wants and the needs of people in the forefront, generally fair quite well. Your comment regarding the unpaid volunteer as more honest and unbiased doesn't bode well -- I've seen plenty of volunteers who are little more than inept, heck, some are inept. There are capable people on both sides of the fence and it would be wrong simply to exclude one side because of an unfounded bias.

Personally, for-profit or not-for-profit doesn't matter much to me -- what does matter is who can get the job done the best.

*****

Geo 23

2.1k · December 9, 2003

For anyone interested in the ideas in this thread, it mirrors the book Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. It's a classic but a long read.

The answer to everyone that hasn't received a reply to an email or are still waiting on something...Jeremy's been reading...

December 9, 2003

{Removed non-humurous commentary.}

Edited December 9, 2003 by Rich in NEPA

3.9k · December 9, 2003

What's up with J5? I can't believe I'm reading some of his posts and finding some things I agree with.

This has been a very thoughtful thread. It's nice to see people voice opinions without all the flaming.

El Diablo

December 10, 2003

Can't say I agree with you here. Although there may be some cases where what you say is true, it's my experience that many companies take a VERY responsible approach to dealing with community issues (it's in their best interest to do so).

But I agree with that!!! It's the perception in the eyes of the government departments that I have a problem with.

Your comment regarding the unpaid volunteer as more honest and unbiased doesn't bode well -- I've seen plenty of volunteers who are little more than inept, heck, some are inept.

Absolutely right! But since they are elected they will only be there till they are un-elected at the next AGM. The main man in the 'for profit entity' will be there as long as he is making a profit for the company. Now, I am not saying that is a bad thing automatically. But, in the eyes of the person he is negotiating with, for what ever reason, the question remains, "What is really behind this?" While a company MUST supply value to its customers to remain in existance, it must also make profit for those who are it's shareholders. If part of supplying that value involves speaking up on behalf of its customers and it is done well, wonderful. I still feel that a properly elected representative, (as spokesman, with appropriate support) will be more kindly received.

Personally, for-profit or not-for-profit doesn't matter much to me -- what does matter is who can get the job done the best.

Yep, me too.

(The spell checker says your 'handle' is Maraca 5 by the way.)

Edited December 10, 2003 by bug&snake

3.8k · December 10, 2003

What's up with J5? I can't believe I'm reading some of his posts and finding some things I agree with.

This has been a very thoughtful thread. It's nice to see people voice opinions without all the flaming.

El Diablo

I find myself agreeing more with him these days too. Keep up the good work, J5.

December 10, 2003

I think the core issue that can be addressed is that of communication. I assume that GC has a formal release process of their web site - they code, they install somewhere, they test, they push out to production. At least I sure hope they do.

Part of that release process should be notification of changes. That much at least is do-able. Notification, and not just in the 'announcements' forum. Really, there is a lot of wasted bandwidth on the login page (I don't care about the last 20 caches hidden worldwide) that could be used for upgrade info, an MOTD, or a link to such. Updating of that information should be an integrated part of the release process. That it is not is a failing.

This probably belongs in another forum area.

Two Random Thoughts Re:gc.com

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