Geocaching Merit Badge For BSA ?

December 8, 2003

Over the weekend, our local Boy Scout troop went on a camping trip in Highlands Hammock State Park in central Florida, where there are two geocaches hidden. For the weekend, we developed a program that started with outdoor survival skills, which included how to find you way during day and night without a compass, then compass skills ..... and this year we added GPS skills at the end, and then transitioned into an introduction to geocaching. After a good discussion of the concept, rules, use of the web site, etc., we went in search of the two caches. The 20 boys who participated loved it (of course!).

This now has me thinking that the BSA could have a merit badge for geocaching, since the boys seem to consider the closest thing to this (orienteering) to be less than exciting. I am therefore considering development of a list of requirements for this merit badge, plus the necessary supporting materials .... doing a pilot program with it using our troop, and then following the process to propose a new merit badge.

To non-Scouters, this may seem of little interest, but consider this -- in our county alone, there are several thousand Boy Scouts. If they can be introduced to geocaching in an carefully considered manner, they are much more likely to be responsible participants in the sport than if they just pick it up on their own. For example, when we hunted the caches as a group, we emphasized trading items of equal value, not giving away the cache location to non geocachers, hiding the cache in the manner in which it was found, and we blended in some serious consideration of leave no trace outdoor ethics, which I also teach.

Here are my questions, both for geocachers and GC.com staff:

(1) geocachers -- does this strike you as a good idea?

(2) geocachers who are scouts -- has anyone previously considered this, and in

particular, does anyone have something like this in the works?

(3) GC.com -- does this sound like a good idea, and would GC.com be willing

to sponsor / assist a pilot program that met their standards in some manner?

Edited December 8, 2003 by hikemeister

3.5k · December 8, 2003

Here's a Markwell with a Markwell to another thread.

Still sounds like a good idea to me, but my guess is you'd have more luck if Geocaching were able to be "piggy-backed" onto another merit badge--like one for orienteering or compass work.

Bret

2.3k · December 8, 2003

I am a former BS and although I am not involved with scouting since I was a teenager, I think this is a great idea. Scouting teaches great skills that can not learn in school or elsewhere. I still utilize some of those skills today!

BTW - Happy 1K to me!

December 8, 2003

I love GC as much as the next guy (or gal!) and was an eagle scout. That being said, I tend to think this would get the most traction as an addendum to orienteering merit badge. I'm not sure that there is enough meat for an independent merit badge, and the cost of entrance (a GPSr) might be a bit prohibitive for youth. In contrast, a compass for orienteering is way less $$ than a GPS. I know a counselor would probably have the equipment, but but its still specialized and expensive equipment in comparison to what most badges require.

At the very least I think its a GREAT troop / patrol activity and when the ethics are coupled with it its a great way to start tadpoles out on the right path. At best it could be its own merit badge, but if that doesn't go through, I'd suggest trying to get orienteering updated to include something about GPS navigation. Maybe GC.com or local GC organizations could even create on-line resoureces specifically for Scouting GC badges (whatever they turned out to be) specific to local offerings.

I'd love to hear how this turns out - please drop a note on the forums when you have news!

1.2k · December 8, 2003

Been in Scouting, or involved with Scouting, most of my life, and I'd rather see this put into the requirements for the orienteering merit badge as an activity using GPS skills learned. This would also do something for the "less than interesting" aspect of the orienteering merit badge.

Just my .02 worth.

2.3k · December 8, 2003

Before you put too much time into this call National and make sure its not already in the works

December 8, 2003

I am a former BS ...

Don't kid yourself Doc--from reading your posts I can assure you you're still a BS :lol:

Back on topic--I'm also a former scout, and I think it's a good idea. One thing I would caution about is that I don't think placing a cache should be a requirement. Too much chance of it being abandoned, unless the troop was willing to take group responsibility for maintaining it.

December 8, 2003

My first thoughts about this very subject a couple of years ago had me believing that geocaching could or should be placed under Orienteering. I still think a specific Geocaching merit badge may be a bit hard to sell. However, a GPS Navigation merit badge does have merit (pun intended).

I think the ability to show the correct use of a GPSr in a number of situations would be a worthy thing to learn. The cost of a GPSr really is no more prohibitive than the equipment needed for Snow Sports or Rifle Shooting or any number of other badges.

The requirements should definitely demonstrate multiple uses of a GPSr. They could include such things as trail mapping or simple map-making, identifying and finding a confluence, geocaching, navigation planning and execution on water or land, identifying how the Global Positioning System works, and GPS (or GIS) related occupational opportunities. These are just a few ideas - there are certainly more things a GPS is used for besides Geocaching! Some of the requirements may overlap those taught in the Orienteering merit badge, but then, several badges already have overlapping requirements. I think it's a great idea!

</UNLURK>

Edited December 8, 2003 by Huaso

2.3k · December 8, 2003

Geocaching in Scouting should be used as an exercise to learn more about using GPSrs. As such, it would be a good add-on/option in the orienteering badge. The primary skill we want Scouts to know is how to move around while knowing where they are. A compass and map are not dependent on batteries or breaking as easily as an electronic device, but I believe that a GPSr should be taken on every hike.

I also believe in carrying a radio (2M Amateur band) and the new small EPIRBs are a good idea for longer hikes in remote areas.

December 8, 2003

Geocaching in Scouting should be used as an exercise to learn more about using GPSrs. As such, it would be a good add-on/option in the orienteering badge. The primary skill we want Scouts to know is how to move around while knowing where they are. A compass and map are not dependent on batteries or breaking as easily as an electronic device, but I believe that a GPSr should be taken on every hike.
I also believe in carrying a radio (2M Amateur band) and the new small EPIRBs are a good idea for longer hikes in remote areas.

Ok, I'll bite - what is an EPIRB? Sounds like a tech-toy I don't have yet since its referenced ba an acronym!

2.1k · December 8, 2003

What is an EPIRB?

December 8, 2003

Pretty cool... I assume they come in smaller sizes for hikers than those employed on Navy ships?

December 8, 2003

Since I wan't a BS, I'm not certain what one of your merit badges usually entails. But, a local elementary school here in Missoula just did a GPS in the classroom assignment and went out and wandered their community coming up with ideas for ways GPSrs are useful. The newspaper did a cute write up on the results and what the kids learned. http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2003/12...s/schools01.txt

The idea of a merit badge about GIS, with some emphasis on GPSrs is great. I sometimes get to teach a computer program which allows folks to draw in new subdivisions. One thing that always suprises me it how few people know how to find good map info online and that once I show them their home city/county's GIS map page (when there is one) they spend hours playing on it.

For example, many online County GIS systems let you discover the current taxable worth of your home, your neighbors home, and if any $ is overdue to the county. And air photos/sat photos always are a great attention getter when teaching.

Just some ideas,

Jennifer

December 8, 2003

There's the rub. So far the requirements for second and first class scout AND orienteering meritbadge are almost completely unrelated and there are a number of orienteering clubs that are submitting changes for the past 4 years that make orienteering mb completely seperate. Such as only using metic system, special maps showing certain courses and controls (not topograhic maps) &etc. As it stands we teach the kids topograhic map reading and compass use, then navigating without a compass, pacing and measuring for rank advancement then reteach them in a different format for orienteering meritbadge. (I am an orienteering meritbadge counsillor).

However I think the kids have a great time in a patrol activity such as caching, it gets them outside, they use a computer, and they are active. Also I think gsprs should be used on outings. thank you.

sorry about my spelling.

9.4k · December 8, 2003

I would be happy to provide any support you may need if you wish to go after a GPSr merit badge. It would be easier to get it introduced as part of the Orienteering merit badge though. In the case of "O" it should be more generic, like locating an object with a GPSr, nonspecific to Geocaching.

Here's a good page about introducing new merit badge ideas to the BSA. Looks like you'll have to do a lot of footwork to be considered.

December 8, 2003

The Boy Scouts have started to recognize the use of a GPS as a essential skill. They have included a requirement in the Venturing Program (the program for 14 - 21 old youth) under the Land Navigation core requirement for the Ranger Award. They must learn to use a GPS and demonstrate they can find a fixed coordinate at night using a GPS. You can bet that we always take them Geocaching to fulfill this requirement and have gotten several new players to our sport.

I would love to see BSA include some requirements under the Orienteering Merit Badge that would include using a GPS. When teaching my Scouts both map and compass and GPS skills together, they have been able to understand how important it is to know both skills.

21.9k · December 8, 2003

And from the same website that Jeremy just linked to, here are the existing requirements for the Orienteering Merit Badge. Many merit badges have a list of basic requirements, and then a menu of advanced options once the basic skills are demonstrated. The basic requirements are phrased as "Do the following:" while the advanced requirements are phrased as "Do any one [or two, etc.] of the following:"

Perhaps at the very least, a GPS and geocaching component could be added as one of the options for the completion of the orienteering badge.

In addition to Jeremy's pledge of support, I note that several of the Groundspeak volunteers are Eagle Scouts, including this holder of the Orienteering Merit Badge. I'd be glad to assist in any way possible.

December 8, 2003

Maybe it's just me but i think part of the endearing bulwark of Boyscouting is the OLD fashioned way of doing things...or perhaps the better term is machanical or manual? Like a person in navy should learn morse code and to sail by the stars if need be. I wasnt sure if this was talk to replace the compass or not but Im against it if it is. otherwise why need it be a merit badge issue? We did things in our scout group that didnt get us a badge all the time. Why not just do this as a social thing with your group?

2.1k · December 8, 2003

I'm with mufasa. I was in CS and then BS for a while before organized music took me away from the time needed. I can see this being a good activity (*maybe* part of the Orienteering badge....like "now that you did it the hard way, here's what they use now-a-days"). But I think I'd prefer it be a fun activity. Then again, I've been out of scouting for quite sometime so maybe "camping" means propane stoves and 50 gallon coolers instead of a pack of hotdogs and a few sticks over a campfire.

One thought I had was to see if there is a "technology" merit badge. Something where GPSr and other "gadgetry" would be included. That way it would be a bit more broad and less overlapping. I mean if "stamp/coin collecting" are merit badges, then I could see "Technology" as being a bit more meritous.

9.4k · December 8, 2003

Maybe it's just me but i think part of the endearing bulwark of Boyscouting is the OLD fashioned way of doing things...or perhaps the better term is machanical or manual?

Like the old fashioned Computers Merit Badge? BSA has merit badges on all kinds of skills, outdoors and indoors.

A well-rounded skillset would include both the compass and GPSr, in my opinion. Perhaps a GIS merit badge would be more useful.

2.1k · December 8, 2003

Clearly if you are still using that Tandy/C-84/Apple][e that's pictured in the badge, then you're still holding true to mufasa's point...

December 8, 2003

I haven't seen a current merit badge book, but I would think that if there isn't an Electronic Navagation MB, there should definately be one.

I personally don't think that it should be one on the required list. Part of being prepared means being able to survive without the luxury of electronic gadgets.

I learned alot from the Orienteering meritbadge. I would hope that they would make the requirements for an Electronic Navigation MB teach the advantages of using a GPS, and why it should not be solely relied on.

Finding a Geocache (hidden stash) could be a requirement, but I don't think a link to the GC.com website would be very appropriate, unless its listed in the appendix as a resource.

December 8, 2003

Purpose: To provide a way to recognize a Scout who has a special interest.
Requirements:

1. A Scout may propose a subject and requirements for this badge, or may develop them in cooperation with other members of the Troop. The requirements should be presented to the Patrol in Council or Court of Honour for review.

2. Topics selected for this badge should not be covered in any of the other challenge badges.

3. The Scout leader must send a copy of the badge requirements to the local Scout council for information.

4. A Scout may hold only one Individual Specialty badge at one time.

5. A Scout may choose a new Individual Specialty once a year.

Note: Make sure the requirements challenge the ability of the individual. Remember that the purpose of the badge is to recognize the best effort of the Scout.

Here in Canada we have a individual badge a youth can do. My son and I made up the requirements for the him and he did geocaching for his badge. The above are the requirements for doing the badge.

I will have to look around and find what requirements we used for the badge. It was not here handy on my computer.

Edited December 8, 2003 by gm100guy

December 9, 2003

I doing my own informal 'badge' for my Cub Scouts on Geocaching. Our scouts have a red vest they can place miscellaneous patches on (like when they go to a park district event that gives a patch of some kind), and my guys are getting a "Geocaching" patch to go on it <they're 10 to 11-ish, so of course, it has to be the camo one>! FYI, my scouts are 2nd year Webelos.

To answer the question of maintaning the cache, I am doing a temporary 'sample' multi on the grounds of the school they attend, and their christmas present from me will be in the final cache location For safety/liability reasons, I am not teaching them how to use the GC.com website information or encouraging independent interest in GC, but will provide links to parents that wish to pursue this on their own *as a family*. Of course, it involves CITO as a hallmark of the activity, as well as adding some content on personal safety in outdoor hiking-type activities.

There currently is a Cub Scout 'Academics & Sports' Loop and Pin called "Map & Compass", but GC falls a bit outside of the focus of that activity's requirements.

1.4k · December 9, 2003

Well if someone wants to make the suggestion for the amendment to the orienteering badge, I'd write a letter in support. Jeremy's link indicates that usually helps things along. If enough scouters/former scouters sent letters in support it may get more serious consideration.

I was a scout and would have enjoyed getting a merit badge that involved GPS technology. I did many badges that I did not own the equipment to complete including rowing and canoing to name two that come immediately to mind. I think have optional requirements would allow troops with the resources to do it another fun way to complete a merit badge.

December 9, 2003

although it is a good idea ... we run into the same problem as people doing geo-caching for school projects. You run into someone who places a cache (ussally half-cocked) and then posts it and keeps up with it for a couple weeks until they get a grade. then you never see them again. I can off hand think of three of these caches (two of which I had to log a DNF becuse they are no longer there) So even though it is a great way to introduce scouts to a great outdoor hobby ... It could also hurt it as well.

December 9, 2003

gee thanks Jeremy make me feel old why don't you? im graduating with my BA this friday so i'm not THAT far removed from being young but a computer merit badge? the only computers i remember there being when i was in scouts had those noxious green screens and an ugly multi-colored apple on the front

December 10, 2003

I am sure we all believe the GPS is here to stay and will absolutely become an integral part of any outdoor program. How many of us once having used one would even consider going into the woods without one. This is sure to be the case with most of our fellow Scouters. The integration of the GPS into scouting is inevitable. It will happen.

As I re-read the orienteering merit badge requirements I see a lot of problems adding the GPS to the existing merit badge. It essentially makes the most of the existing requirements obsolete at the very least boring. I see the problem as trying to convince an 11 to 17 year old kid how great technology is at the same time trying to teach him not to use it because the batteries might go dead.

In the next 10 years 8 out of 10 boy scouts will have a GPS. By then it will be standard on most wrist watches. Will there be a GPS merit badge? I hope so.

My .02 cents worth

December 10, 2003

As an Eagle Scout myself, with an intense interest in orienteering, I just had to comment.

I may be wrong here, but orienteering is an action done with certain tools. In my days, we used maps and compasses as those tools. Lewis & Clark used a sextant. Nowadays, we use GPSs. They are all tools toward the same end.

It looks to me like the 'orienteering' merit badge requirements should include GPS use but continue to include compass, sextent, etc. Volunteer Geocachers could offer a lot of help if the BSA were interested.

December 10, 2003

it's funny. I recieved the new updated requirements for orienteering mb a while ago. You can use either the new or the old requirements until Jan 1 2004. Since they have recently updated these I can't really expect any new changes. refer to this page showing both old and new http://www.usscouts.org/mb/changes/mb080.html

December 10, 2003

First let me say,"Once a Scout, Always a Scout" I never thought about this as a Scout but here I am 49 and still in Scouts. Both sons Eagles.

Nuff said.

I love using my GPS but I see a problem here. One is again with the cost. If you are with a large troop then you may can affore 10 or more. Thats great but there are those troops that are small and cant. Heck our Scout camp has a hard time even supplying some supplies for archery.

Next question is the same one I have with useing calculators in school. Its great to use but what happens when the batt.'s are dead. If you do not know how to use the basics then what?

I would think that it would be a good idea to maybe add to the orienteering mb. but not to come up with a New one.

Just a few thoughts of a Old Wood Badger, But Still A EAGLE and a Good EAGLE too!

Rick

December 10, 2003

I'm not sure we could get BSA to develope a stand alone merit badge for geocaching but it sure would be fun. Here is a link to download my presentation on it.

http://kaiserklan.com/GeoScouting/geoscouting.ppt

Also, check out our Roundtable page at http://kaiserklan.com/roundtable

YIS -- Keith

December 10, 2003

I'm not sure we could get BSA to develope a stand alone merit badge for geocaching but it sure would be fun. Here is a link to download my presentation on it.

http://kaiserklan.com/GeoScouting/geoscouting.ppt

Also, check out our Roundtable page at http://kaiserklan.com/roundtable

YIS -- Keith

This is excellent material, and all of this input is very helpful. Clearly there are many others involved in Scouting who have thought about this before, and in much more detail that I have.

For now, our unit will continue to have a yearly (or more often) weekend where we will blend the activities associated with wilderness survival, orienteering, leave no trace, and GPS use / geocaching, since it was such a great success this year.

I forgot to mention that when some of our Venture crew (the older scouts) heard that we were doing geocaching during the afternoon, they wanted to stay at the park to go with us, rather than attending a special event that they had planned (going to see the very popular Tom Cruise film). The boys are definataly interested in this sport, and it is great to see it being taught carefully in Scout troops across the US and in Canada. This means we are likely to see a large number of responsible geocachers joining us in the near future.

HM

December 10, 2003

I completed my second weekend of Woodbadge on Sunday, and my patrol did a presentation on "Geoscouting" as our project. In preparation for this project, we did quite a bit of research (including KaiserKlan's Powerpoint ).

Geocaching can be directly tied to all levels of Scouting (except Webelos, strangely) through existing activities/badges/ranks/awards. Venturers even have a requirement for using a GPSr to find a location in the woods at night by coordinates as part of their requirements for the Ranger award.

While I understand your enthusiasm, it's important to remember that the Boy Scouts are only one part of Scouting, and although it takes a little creativity, Geocaching can be used to make existing requirements for all scouts more interesting while exposing them to our sport.

Edited December 10, 2003 by OneOfEm

8.9k · December 10, 2003

Since the old markwells are now out of date, here's the original thread that I posted in August of 2001.

Jeremy's response at the time:

Having a geocaching merit badge would be inappropriate in my opinion. It's a game or exercise boy scouts or whoever can use, but doesn't really require it's own badge.

My son's den did a Geocaching project in which they performed all of the main aspects. They have their own login. They hunted four caches. They've released and are tracking a Travel Bug (man he's slow). Finally, they placed The Griffin. As a result, those that were on the trail with us for all aspects received a special event patch (got it here) for their brag-vests.

While not an "official" patch, it's something that they've learned quite a bit while doing.

Edited December 10, 2003 by Markwell

December 10, 2003

There currently is a Cub Scout 'Academics & Sports' Loop and Pin called "Map & Compass", but GC falls a bit outside of the focus of that activity's requirements.

I used Geocaching with my Wolf Cub Den for this belt loop and pin. The boys had maps and compasses; I had the GPSr. We took the time at the beginning to show them how the map works, how to read a compass etc. During the hike we compared compass readings to the GPSr, and I asked them questions (which way next, which trail would be easier, why is it really further than the GPSr says, etc.)

We found the cache (I recommend doing and interesting one that you have already found). The boys had a great time, the adults had a great time, and learning took place.

One really nice thing about the Cub Scouts: Semper Gumbi!

BTW, our Council Camp has 4 caches and loans GPSrs to older scouts to find them while they are at camp.

Also, I agree about including this technology in the Scout's repertoire of skills.

Great thread!

Here's where we went: The Mushroom by Hikenit

8.9k · December 10, 2003

Here's where we went: The Mushroom by Hikenit

What a cool cache to do that on! I visited that cache just over a year ago with mtn-man and gpsfun before teaming up with Hikenit for a LONG hike on the cumberland trail. We hit most of Signal Mountain that day.

Try out my Tribute to Cumberland Trail for a REALLY long hike into some gorgeous territory.

</shameless plug>

2.3k · December 11, 2003

Scout Master made some good points. Badges evolve over time with changes in the world/technology/etc. A good example is the now defunct Skiing badge. With the popularity of snowboarding, you can now earn the "Snow Sports" badge which replaced the Skiing badge. To earn it you choose one of 3 tracts/requirements: downhill, crosscountry, or snowboarding.

Perhaps the Orienteering badgebneeds to evolve, by integrating GPS, computer mapping, satellite photos, on-line sources, and more.

Geocaching Merit Badge For BSA ?

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