Virtual Caches

December 7, 2003

I'm brand new. In fact, I don't even have a GPS yet. Getting one for Xmas. I want to know if a gravesite of a reasonably famous person is an appropriate virtual cache. It's at a public cemetary and I think people would be interested to see where this person is buried, but it's brought up questions: mainly, should I get the family's permission, the cemetary custodians?

Any help would be appreciated.

December 7, 2003

With the current climate for virtuals, I would hazard a guess that it wouldn't be approved. It would probably have to be a very unique and unusual grave site to be approved.

However, there are several existing virtuals that are grave markers. These were grandfathered from before the policy changes.

Virtuals are kind of a touchy subject around here, so be careful.

Permission in general seems to be a hot issue, too. I think the site rules are pretty clear. In any event, requesting permission in a cemetary is probably the most respectable course of action. I'd be really suprised if someone would invoke the "Frisbee Rule".

Just my opinion.

George

Edited December 7, 2003 by nincehelser

5k · December 7, 2003

A number of people (myself included) do not see geocaching as a place to post coordinates for interesting places. It's a place to post coordinates for hidden caches. Sometimes (in fact, oftentimes) a cache is hidden at an interesting place, but an interesting place in and of itself does not make a cache.

Jamie

3.8k · December 7, 2003

Not to be much of a spoil-sport either, but I don't know that starting out with virtuals is a good idea. As others have said, it has to be a really good spot for it to be approved. There's more or less of a movement away from virtuals right now. It fills the void well in certain instances, but for the most part, unless it's really necessary, I doubt you'd get one through.

When you get your GPS, take some time to find a bunch of caches. Then take some time to make yourself a nice traditional cache, find a great place to hide it, and sit back and enjoy reading the logs of those who find it.

Good luck!

9.2k · December 8, 2003

I'm brand new. In fact, I don't even have a GPS yet. Getting one for Xmas. I want to know if a gravesite of a reasonably famous person is an appropriate virtual cache. It's at a public cemetary and I think people would be interested to see where this person is buried, but it's brought up questions: mainly, should I get the family's permission, the cemetary custodians?
Any help would be appreciated.

I have a cache that uses a gravestone of a famous (infamous, actually) person. It's easily the cache I've received the most positive comments about. But it's just the first part of a multi-cache, and there's no physical item hidden there. It's a public cemetery, so access isn't a problem. You might consider going the multi-cache route, with the physical cache locate elsewhere.

It's been my experience that most people don't mind you going into old graveyards and looking around, as long as you don't disturb anything or anyone. Those that do mind usually make that very clear with padlocks and signage. It's pretty easy to tell if you're welcome or not.

21.9k · December 8, 2003

From the section of the Cache Placement Requirements/Guidelines dealing specifically with Virtual Cache Requirements:

Signs, memorials, tombstones or historical markers are among the items that are generally too common to qualify as virtual caches.

A virtual cache submission leading the finder to a famous person's grave in XYZ City Cemetery is almost certain to be denied. You can look up those on www.findagrave.com. On the other hand, unusual ideas that require GPS usage, and which are placed in an area that cannot support a traditional cache, would be carefully evaluated. I have approved several virtual caches involving truly unique gravesites. Generally, however, it is possible to place a traditional cache nearby, and a multicache using info. from the tombstone is often a better solution.

4k · December 8, 2003

It's been my experience that most people don't mind you going into old graveyards and looking around, as long as you don't disturb anything or anyone.

Yes, let's hope you don't disturb the residents. When I first started caching (about a month ago) I thought virts were pretty cool, but now I've decided for the most part they are a lame excuse for caching. I tried unsuccessfully to have a virt approved, and after the approver sent me ideas ranging from the banal to the Harry Potterish, I decided to drop the idea and stick to traditional caches instead. There are a handful of virts around here, most of which are signs and radio towers. In deference to Keystone Approver, just in the past couple of days, a new virt was approved for a rest area along a local interstate, and the qualifier was a word on a sign located there. Pretty much a driveby, which is kind of what mine would have been also, so I won't comment too harshly on it. Take the seasoned veterans advice, and try to avoid virts and most of all, don't get yourself into a nasty discussion about asking permission on the forums! If you have permission questions, I'd suggest that you start with your regional approver. They should be able to help you with most of your questions about the area you live in.

Most importantly through all of this rambling, I want to say, "Have fun, and Happy Geocaching!"

PS: What kind of GPSr are ya getting?

24.7k · December 8, 2003

It is appropriate for a virtual cache.

However this listing site has a disdain for virtual caches. They will list one only if a traditional cache can not be placed in the area.

There is no "Movement" away from virtual caches since a lot of geocachers enjoy them. The quality of a virtuals varies just as it does with a traditional cache. There are people who hate them very loudly and more than a few threads have debated the topic.

4k · December 8, 2003

I guess if I lived in a different area, there would be more interesting virts. The one I was trying to get approved was a VERY large cottonwood that the original settlers to this area used as a landmark when they were moving west. Plenty of historical significance, but the approver wanted me to make up some story that sounded like a Harry Potter book, with the "magical powers of the tree bending the time-space continuum", and I just couldn't see warping a truly significant landmark with a sorry story like that (no offense to the Harry Potter fans out there, I don't have anything against that per se).

Edited December 8, 2003 by Sparky-Watts

3.9k · December 8, 2003

When you get your GPS, take some time to find a bunch of caches

That's good advise. You should find a few first to get a feel for it. I had only found a couple caches before placing one. The first one I placed was in a cheap disposable food container, like Glad Ware, and the trade items were stuff from my junk drawer. After finding several more caches I realized my cache was not up to par.

I recently found a traditional cache that was in a cemetery. I didn't mind the location but it may not be for everyone. I think the best way would be to make it a multi or offset cache. Maybe you can use the dates on the grave stone as part of the coords. Get creative and have fun. And welcome to geocaching.

2.7k · December 8, 2003

A good virtual is a lot more fun than a lame drive by where you can find some recycled items from some kids happy meal. But they can be hard to develop and after all your hard work to create an interesting one, they will just be shut down by those that lack some artistic capabilities.

I'm thankful I was able to get my virtuals created before the game changed and you are encouraged just to look for that log book.

December 9, 2003

i have no use for virtual caches. unless, of course, it's part of a multi-cache with the virtual offering a clue to the final, or next leg of the multi.

seems to me that too many virtuals are available to log just for the sake of somebody wanting to boost their personal cache palcement count.

i would like to see gc.com create a unique count for virtuals in total cache counts. that would make some of the cachers out there with high-3-figure and 4-figure counts look more realistic.

i have logged a couple of virtuals as a "note" just to gain miles on a travel bug, but i am virtual cache free and intend to stay that way.

it's not about the exchange for me - it's about the find. the argument that traditional caching is just an exchange of cheap trinkets doesn't hold water with me. what came first the tradional or the virtual?

a sign, a headstone, a view, a trail, etc. are not caches, they are what they are.

this is just my opinion and you know what they say about opinons.

cache you later, monty

1.2k · December 9, 2003

I like Virtuals. Part of the fun of Caching is the hike/walk, the scenery and getting outdoors. Virtuals can also be interesting hunts depending on the location.

I am sure there are lame Virtuals but I am sure there are lame traditionals, multis and Micros.

Just another opinion

December 9, 2003

seems to me that too many virtuals are available to log just for the sake of somebody wanting to boost their personal cache palcement count.

What difference does it make if a Virtual requires proof of your visit? A bit of history, and amusing fact, etc. You still have to get up out of your chair in order to legitamtely log it. The same is true for a lot of Locationless Caches. You need to use your GPSr to mark the location, Yes, you need to go there, your Digital Camera to document the experience, upload your pics, then wait for ridicule for logging it. Locationless caches IMO, require more work than walking 1 - 2 miles to snag a 2 star traditional filled with broken McToys. I still prefer traditional caches over Virtuals or Locationless, but they give me something to do when these gray Michigan winter days start to drag on. To each his own. It's the hunt that rules, after all is said and done.

4k · December 9, 2003

There's a virt about 20 miles NW of me that I can actually see from my front porch. It's a radio tower. Now, if I wanted an easy boost to my count, I could spend 20 minutes on the road, copy 4 numbers from the sign on the gate around the tower, and log it. Simple as that. BORING! What's so special about a radio tower? At just over 1500 ft it's the tallest structure in Kansas. Wow. Show me something in Kansas that doesn't look tall compared to the flat countryside. I'm sure it's different in more picturesque parts of the world, where you might actually have to hike to see a breath-taking waterfall or some such thing, but around here, virts are LAME!

December 9, 2003

I'm sure it's different in more picturesque parts of the world, where you might actually have to hike to see a breath-taking waterfall or some such thing, but around here, virts are LAME!

Sounds like a challenge to me!

Flatlanders (or anyone else with a cool suggestion), here's your chance to show Sparky. Let's hear it; where are the non-lame virtuals?

December 9, 2003

Virtual, Locationless, Multi-stage, & snatch & run single.

I don't care, I like them all.

4k · December 9, 2003

This one is the radio tower I was talking about...pretty exciting, huh? This one is another one where you don't have to get out of the car. And yet another drive by that doesn't require getting out of the car. Someone, PLEASE HELP ME!!!

Actually, that last one is the only one I've logged, simply because I was driving past it on the way to another REAL cache that I actually had to get out and walk a couple hundred yards to find. I mean, really, I probably wouldn't mind walking a ways if it was a good virt, but to be able to drive by one and log it without even slowing from highway speeds? Come on, get real!

4k · December 9, 2003

OOOHHH!!!! I just got an idea for a really hard virt or locationless. It's snowing right now, so I'll go out and find a snowflake and make it a virt. I'd make it a locationless, but how would we identify it? They're all moving so fast, they'll be in Oklahoma by the time I finish typing this post.

December 9, 2003

Have a look at The Big Spring Thing and The Mystery Spot These are not terribly hard to find....just a little different....

December 10, 2003

This one is the radio tower I was talking about...pretty exciting, huh? This one is another one where you don't have to get out of the car. And yet another drive by that doesn't require getting out of the car. Someone, PLEASE HELP ME!!!

Actually, that last one is the only one I've logged, simply because I was driving past it on the way to another REAL cache that I actually had to get out and walk a couple hundred yards to find. I mean, really, I probably wouldn't mind walking a ways if it was a good virt, but to be able to drive by one and log it without even slowing from highway speeds? Come on, get real!

What would you expect? It's Kansas, after all!

I went to K-State, so I have a right to make fun of it.

You're right, though. Those aren't shining examples of virts. The first two are easy to pick up with google.

George

4k · December 10, 2003

This one is the radio tower I was talking about...pretty exciting, huh? This one is another one where you don't have to get out of the car. And yet another drive by that doesn't require getting out of the car. Someone, PLEASE HELP ME!!!

Actually, that last one is the only one I've logged, simply because I was driving past it on the way to another REAL cache that I actually had to get out and walk a couple hundred yards to find. I mean, really, I probably wouldn't mind walking a ways if it was a good virt, but to be able to drive by one and log it without even slowing from highway speeds? Come on, get real!

What would you expect? It's Kansas, after all!

I went to K-State, so I have a right to make fun of it.

You're right, though. Those aren't shining examples of virts. The first two are easy to pick up with google.

George

K-State? Really? Well, with that in mind, I guess I'll have to erase all those nasty things I wrote about you on the bathroom wall. (My wife was wondering what they were there for anyway)

And how 'bout them Cats winning the title?!?!?!?!?!?!?

WOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.....but, I digress. Now, the area around Tuttle Creek and Manhattan in general is beautiful, in fact my farm is south and east of there a ways, near Missouri border. I'm out here in the flattest spot, west of Wichita. Grain elevators (Kansas Skyscrapers,we call'em) as far as the eye can see.

December 10, 2003

K-State? Really? Well, with that in mind, I guess I'll have to erase all those nasty things I wrote about you on the bathroom wall. (My wife was wondering what they were there for anyway)

And how 'bout them Cats winning the title?!?!?!?!?!?!?

WOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

.....but, I digress. Now, the area around Tuttle Creek and Manhattan in general is beautiful, in fact my farm is south and east of there a ways, near Missouri border. I'm out here in the flattest spot, west of Wichita. Grain elevators (Kansas Skyscrapers,we call'em) as far as the eye can see.

Yep. I actually went there instead of Nebraksa because I was tired of Nebraska's fixation with football. At the time, Kansas State was pretty miserable at football, so that as a big plus in my mind

Yes, I like the scenery around Manhattan. It's not at all like most people envision Kansas. Mountain bikes are actually useful in places.

George

4.5k · December 10, 2003

Virtuals are great when the weather is lousy and your dog would rather sit in the car and laugh at you while you're trudging by yourself through snow up to your knees looking for a cache that's unfindable!

2.7k · December 10, 2003

I'm sure it's different in more picturesque parts of the world, where you might actually have to hike to see a breath-taking waterfall or some such thing, but around here, virts are LAME!

Sounds like a challenge to me!

Flatlanders (or anyone else with a cool suggestion), here's your chance to show Sparky. Let's hear it; where are the non-lame virtuals?

You want a real live difficult virtual that goes U T M And I don't mean Universal Transverse Mercator I mean Up The Mountain. And while your up there check out The Grey Diamond and if you have any energy left go for this one

These caches are located on. Round Mountain

And maybe the next day if you're still walking then try this Virtual that takes you to this one. And these caches are in the vicinity of Homestead Meadows

And its too snowy in them hills I've got some in town that are more than a one stop virtual. Just see what some cachers said about this one and its sequel which led to the creation of this Combination Cache - Virtual, Micro, and Traditional Which will have a sequel in 2004 that will not even be easy.

Dec. 10 Update:

And there is another CACHE that I have that we've had to quabble with the Land Managers about listing it on the web, it seems they forgot the 1st ammendment.

In retrospective its that after winning with the county to get permission to place this cache and leave it there as a model then the PTB'S just throw in the towel and say no to virtuals.

Edited December 10, 2003 by Tahosa and Sons

December 10, 2003

The best virtuals are placed in areas that a real cache could not be placed, but are still very interesting and fun to find. I can't see limiting virtuals just because some are lame. There are many "lame" real caches too, and many very clever and hard to find virtuals. All of us have different levels of imagination, so let the game include all placers of caches. Without us, the game cannot continue to grow!!

Virtual Caches

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