The Rise Of Lame Micros

[+Quest Master]

I'm really glad that I got this topic started BEFORE all of Lep's new microcaches appeared on my search screen. He surely would have thought that I signaled him out. My first filtered search page now shows 13 micros and 7 other caches. Yikes! I intended no disrespect for anyone in particular but I have encountered a few micros recently which have brought me to the point of not wanting to hunt for them anymore. You will excuse me if I give them a miss. I have hunted enough of them to know that they are not to my taste.

[+briansnat]

Micros are popular because they usually take no thought, or effort to put together and hide. All you need is a film canister and a slip of paper and you're good to go. Some geocachers spread them around like grass seed. There are some good micros out there, but the majority seem to be really lame...like several of mine (done on purpose, because the lamer the cache, the more people look for them).

 

What I really dislike are micros in spots that can easily accomodate a full sized cache. The needle in a haystack hunts in the middle of the forest aren't enjoyable for me.

Edited December 1, 2003 by briansnat

[+Team Tecmage]

QM, I can agree that we ought to be able to distinguish micros from full-sized caches. I do not think we need to split micros and full-sized caches. A micro doesn't have to be a 35mm film canister. Our only micro is a water-proof match container hidden in a VERY small park that would not support a full-sized cache. Decon containers and Otter Boxes are big enough for small trade items, do not exactly fit some people's definition of micros.

 

To me, they are physical caches. You can find them, sign the log (if present), and (in some cases) trade items. We do not need to segment them out. What we need is for hiders to place them in challenging, nonlame places.

[+Navdog]

I know that a cache rating system has been talked about and shot down many times for good reasons. How about considering an anonymous rating/feedback system that is only viewable by the cache owner. Each finder that logs the cache has an opportunity to rate the cache, lets say on a scale from 1-10. No ratings would be shown for the first few finds to allow those finders to be anonymous, but after a few finds the overall "average" of the cumulative ratings and subsequent ratings would be available to the cache owner as a way of judging the quality of the cache. This would at least give an honest appraisal of a cache, because as much as it has been said that a lame cache will not get hunted, I tend to see that really lame caches, which are often easy finds, get the most hits. Why, because most cachers are lazy and will still find these no matter what, and most finders will not be honest in their logs, but merely state; "Found it. TNLN. Thanks". This idea might not be a cure-all for the lame cache, but an owner of several caches with poor ratings might consider spending a little more time on the next one. Everybody has at least some pride in what they do.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

How about having a filter by size option?

Micro=Film cannister/Altoids tin or smaller

Small=Decon Container or small tupperware

Medium=Ammo Box or medium tupperware

Large=5 gallon bucket or large ammo box

[+OzGuff]

Of my 20 caches placed I have 4 micros--1 in a rest area (room for small trades), 1 in a strip mall, 1 in a parking lot of a large retailer, 1 at a small roadside monument. I don't think a larger cache container would work in any of these locations. Also, when I started placing caches in the area there were only 2 within 15 miles--and one was a webcam cache. I have tried to offer the full spectrum of caching experiences. I also hope that my micros are not lame. So far the log entries have been reasonably positive.

 

I agree that there are micros out there for the sake of having a cache, not necessarily because it is the only feasible option or to hide some deviously planted, un-findable micro.

 

But what are you going to do? Finding a lousy micro is still better than going to work...

 

OzGuff

[+BeachBuddies]

Beach Buddie I hate puzzle caches.  I've never done one.  I don't enjoy them so guess what, instead of complaining about them I just don't do them.

Yeah, that was sort of the point I was trying to make: different strokes... I certainly wasn't complaining, nor was Quest Master -- unless you count complaining about lame caches. Of course, even finding a lame cache is better than sitting on my butt watching the tube...

Edited December 2, 2003 by BeachBuddies

[+gerper]

To me, a find is a find. Micro's are nice to find, as they are usually a "quick cache", but I can see where you are coming from in terms of there being lots of them out there. Lately, I have noticed that with traditional caches, I do the TNLNSL thing and leave. There really isn't anything worth trading for.

[+Quest Master]

What do you think the rules for micros should be?

I should probably attempt to answer this question since I opened this can of worms.

 

I think there is something of a consensus here that a first criteria would be:

 

1. Micros should not be hidden if a regular-sized cache could be hidden at the same location or nearby.

 

The other criteria I would add would be similar to one of the special criteria listed for virtual caches but much less stringently applied.

 

2. A virtual cache must be novel, of interest to other players, and have a special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets it apart from everyday subjects. Since the reward for a virtual cache is the location, the location should “WOW” the prospective finder.

 

I think that a modest "WOW" factor should be sufficient for micros. It stands to reason that in lieu of "treasure" or a real logbook there should be something special about the location. It should as a minimum be a worthwhile place to go even if there was not a cache there. It seems that too many people are forgetting that location, location, location is the driving force behind the enjoyment of this game for most people. I believe that, although subjective, the approvers could handle this in an even handed way based on the cache description or email correspondence in such cases where the location is supposed to be something of a surprise. Eliminate the drive and dumps such as micros hidden at highway rest stops, in shopping centers, beside parking lots, stuck to guardrails, etc. and the game will not be ruined by lame micros.

 

Lastly, I think it's high time to rein in the worst offenders who "scatter these things around like grass seed" (good one, Brian) way beyond their capability to effectivly maintain them. Rest assured that the approvers already know who these persons area and will deal with them accordingly if a new set of criteria is adopted.

 

I mean for this post to be a starting point for a productive debate. That's what these forums are here for. Please keep it positive.

Edited December 3, 2003 by Quest Master

[+hikemeister]

Some of the BEST caches in the south Florida area are micros -- folks have great hiding ideas. One cache, lying under some leaves next to a boardwalk, is attached to the side of the boardwalk by a thin piece of fishing line. The clue just says that 'you will need to do some fishing around.' Another micro is painted dull grey and attached to the top of a tall fence, and in the description, the owner says only that he 'was on the fence about putting a cache right next to a hiking trail.' I think this is great. Typically I do not do trades anymore, except to leave signature items, which I have both in large and small sizes for regular and micro caches, so the size of the cache does not matter -- it is the hiding technique and how clever the clues are that is of interest to me.

[+Mr.Benchmark]

2. A virtual cache must be novel, of interest to other players, and have a special historic, community or geocaching quality that sets it apart from everyday subjects. Since the reward for a virtual cache is the location, the location should “WOW” the prospective finder.

Would your definition of novelty include places that are merely attractive? I've adopted one like this - the point it is to walk all over a town center. It's kind of a pretty place, especially at night, but nobody is going to sell postcards about it. I've found several that are like this. I would hate for the wow factor to be interpreted too rigorously though - it could easily be interpreted in pretty much the same was as virtuals are now.

 

I think that it might be useful to list the negative qualities you don't want. For example, a micro cache in an area that is unusually ugly or unpleasant, or for urban areas unusually dangerous. As far as I can tell, nobody minds risking a sprained ankle or a little poison ivy, but no one wants to get mugged. (But I may be wrong about this - I've been accused of not "getting it" before.) Maybe the ones I've suggested are too extreme though - I can't imagine why someone would stop and geocache at a rest area. I wouldn't. But people do.

 

Maybe the guideline should be that the location should have *some* redeeming quality? I think humor would be a good quality for the "wow factor", by the way. Some locations, when combined with a creative hide or container, are good for a laugh. (These are few and far between, but they are the ones that are the most memorable to me!)

[+bons]

I don't think this has anything to do with micos. There are obviously ammo cans and tupperware containers filled with junk. There are regular caches in places where the could be been placed by tossing the cache out of a moving vehicle.

 

I belive in the right place for the right type of cache. I spent an hour this weekend making sure I had the perfect location for "TB reading room", checking flooding, visibilty, etc. etc. only to decide after I knew the park inside and out and every entrance that "It was just another park". So "TB reading room" will have to wait a while.

 

There's also a nice local TB hotel that's the end of a multi that I need to e-mail the owner and discuss moving it to another park 2 blocks away. The park where it's at has a hedge maze, a really cool structure, and a host of carefully planted trees that's begging for a Harry Potter themed multi consisting of 3 altoids each containing a HP log book containing two numbers (#a and # and an ammo box located at NXX.abc WXX.def containing a HP log book, a HP computer game, and some other similar swag. Unfortunately the TB hotel doesn't use any of the park's features. It's resting in the forest on the other side of the road, just under a football field away. (ie, the new multi would be well within the .1 mile rule.) I just finished doublechecking everything this morning and, well, that's another cache that's going back to the drawing board for now.

[+Navdog]

1. Micros should not be hidden if a regular-sized cache could be hidden at the same location or nearby.

 

I'm not sure a guideline like that is something that could be applied in every instance. I'd rather see a container that is as small as possible to avoid possible plundering. Why have a five gallon bucket when a smaller container will do. Besides, Land managers are probably going to be more receptive to the idea of smaller less conspicuous containers. How would an approver ever have the means to determine what container is appropriate.

 

As a side note, I have never been a big fan of trading items. For me the journey is the reward and I am happy to just sign the logbook. I've actually considered filling come of my caches that are ammo cans with expanding foam and leaving just enough room for a logbook. It's hard to beat the durability of an ammo can in remote locations. But, many people like to trade so, I haven't gone that route yet.

 

I think that a modest "WOW" factor should be sufficient for micros. It stands to reason that in lieu of "treasure" or a real logbook there should be something special about the location.

 

I have an urban micro that is a multi and is hidden in a phone booth. Does that mean it hasn't enough WOW factor? Well, it isn't the final hiding place that makes the cache special, it is the other virtual waypoints you need to find and learn something about the area that makes the cache something special. Finding durable places to hide micros in an urban enviroment is a challenge.

[+CurmudgeonlyGal]

I've actually considered filling [some] of my caches that are ammo cans with expanding foam and leaving just enough room for a logbook.

Let me know when you start setting out foamy ammo cans and I'll be on my way to Portland to cache! Wahoo!

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I don't think this has anything to do with micos. There are obviously ammo cans and tupperware containers filled with junk. There are regular caches in places where the could be been placed by tossing the cache out of a moving vehicle.

 

This is true, but I think I see Quest Master's point. If you place an ammo can in a crappy location, and everyone hates it, or you hate maintaining it, it's more of a self-limiting condition. You've invested the container, the trinkets in it, etc. You are liable to be more careful with this sort of a cache, or at least not hide dozens of them carelessly - at some point these hides will begin to cost you real money. With a 35mm film can with a log only, you could hide a vast number of them, and if half of them are lost, who cares? Your investment is near zero, so it's perhaps easier to be careless. I'm not saying that all micros are this way, and there are for sure some really lame, crappy traditional caches, it's true. The idea is that the potential is there for someone to abuse these more easily. If you hate the location where you put one of the micros, you just never maintain it at all - who cares, you've got lots more just like it.

 

BTW, I'm not sure if I believe this theory personally - the micro's I've seen in my area are frequently rather elaborate things. A lot of them look like someone put in a *lot* of time to camo them. If you hated one of these, it's not because they were generic... Maybe it's really a big problem other places though. Anyway, I can see how such a thing could happen.

 

I do wonder how a reviewer is supposed to decide whether or not a location is novel enough, given the limited information and time that they have? My worry is that this would tend to make them rather conservative in their interpretation of the guidelines, effectively ending micros. That seems like a possible outcome anyway. (BTW, I don't distrust the reviewers - 9Key does a fantastic job in my area!) I'm just saying that it's a lot to expect for someone to decide if a cache is "fun" or "mildly wow" based on reading the cache page alone. If this were easy to do, we'd all just pick only the fun ones, and never do the lame ones.

[+cachew nut]

It seems that too many people are forgetting that location, location, location is the driving force behind the enjoyment of this game for most people.

That may have been true before people started hiding micros, but I've heard time and time again that it's about the hunt.

 

I guess I would need to see some numbers before accepting your statement about what "most" people think is the driving force.

[+Quest Master]

I do wonder how a reviewer is supposed to decide whether or not a location is novel enough, given the limited information and time that they have? My worry is that this would tend to make them rather conservative in their interpretation of the guidelines, effectively ending micros. That seems like a possible outcome anyway. (BTW, I don't distrust the reviewers - 9Key does a fantastic job in my area!) I'm just saying that it's a lot to expect for someone to decide if a cache is "fun" or "mildly wow" based on reading the cache page alone. If this were easy to do, we'd all just pick only the fun ones, and never do the lame ones.

I think that the hiders of micros would just have to bear the additional burden of putting enough information in their cache description to demonstrate that thier microcache is viable. I think one sentence (or less) in a cache description is a sure sign that a cache could be really lame. People who put some real thought and effort into their cache are probably going to invest some time into their cache description as well. They certainly should take this opportunity to explain why everyone should want to hunt the cache that they worked hard to create.

[+Mr.Benchmark]

I think one sentence (or less) in a cache description is a sure sign that a cache could be really lame. People who put some real thought and effort into their cache are probably going to invest some time into their cache description as well.

I agree with this. I think that as long as the rule was pretty liberal like this, it would not be a bad thing. I think the reviewers should err on the side of the hider, though.

 

Are there really a lot of micro caches in your area that have a 1 sentence description?

[+Quest Master]

1. Micros should not be hidden if a regular-sized cache could be hidden at the same location or nearby.

 

I'm not sure a guideline like that is something that could be applied in every instance. I'd rather see a container that is as small as possible to avoid possible plundering. Why have a five gallon bucket when a smaller container will do. Besides, Land managers are probably going to be more receptive to the idea of smaller less conspicuous containers. How would an approver ever have the means to determine what container is appropriate.

Point taken that the appovers could not know what size container is appropriate in any given situation. They could question it if they saw that it was way out in the boonies but in the final analysis it would have to be left up to the discretion of the hider. This would still be a good guideline to have in place even if it must be adhered to voluntarily.

[+suemac]

This topic is beating a dead horse. We all agree there are lame caches of every type.

 

Different people like different types of caches. There is no on-size-fits-all for cachers. The hunt, the view, the trade: what difference does it make? Just do it

 

Allowing cachers to easily select the type of caches they like to do is great. Adding unnecessary and/or diffiicult to evaluate/enforce restrictions on cache placement is detrimental to the sport. Don't choke the life out of our sport!

[+Stump]

I wish that there was an easy way to distinguish between lame micros and cool micros.  I wish that there was an objective means of determining whether a micro is the most appropriate container size for a particular location.  But realistically, how could such a rule be fairly formulated and enforced?

Not sure why a finder rating couldn't be implemented. If Yahoo, Amazon, Ebay, etc. can let users rate products why not let geocachers rate caches.

 

To get back on topic I agree with Quest Master. I enjoy micros and have even hidden a few myself, but there are a number of really lame micros. Just throw a 35 mm cannister underneath a bush. We took a day trip to an area we thought would be fun to cache. Turns out it was mostly lame micros.

[+Brian - Team A.I.]

What I'm finding humorous in the forums now is the cry for more rules on one side (micros), while crying for less rules (forums) on the side we're using to cry about having more rules.

 

To each their own. Often times, you can gauge the complexity or viability of a cache by reading past finds. Sure, some people aren't wordy as part of their nature, but if you read log notes like "found immediately after walking up to the cache coordinates, but a kid playing nearby might find it easily" would be an indicator of a potentially lame cache, or just the right type of cache for cachers that have small children.

 

I've said it once before, and I'll say it again. When I take my daughter caching, it isn't so much for the find as it is enjoying my relationship with her and participating in the excitement she exhibits when she actually locates the cache. My son also likes to go caching, but his being in school all day doesn't afford me the opportunities with him that I currently have with my 3 year-old.

 

No matter what is said here, there will continue to be strong opinions on both fronts, and countless new topics created to beat the same withered and dead horse. What it boils down to is that we should agree to disagree and leave it at that, because it is clear that one side is never going to convince the other to see the world through THEIR rose-colored glasses.

[+yumitori]

I'm with Brian here.

 

As far as more rules for micros, I'm amazed at the suggestion. Given the amount of angst currently expressed whenever a cache gets rejected under the present guidelines, you now want to put the approvers and those of us on the forums through more of it?

 

Quest Master, you and compass_bearing_north need to get together and hash out the Rules of Geocaching. That would be an interesting discussion to watch...

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I liked it better without any rules.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I recently found a cache in a plastic Gatorade drink mix container. It was out in plain sight, no bushes or rocks within 20 feet. I was carrying my 2-year old in my arms who took great pleasure in 'finding' the cache.

Lame hide? sure

Fun for the kids? you bet!

It isn't always about the cache, the hide, or the locaton, but fortunately there are plenty of different kinds of each to go around.

[+Doc-Dean]

I got an idea... let's ban micros....

 

Why put a micro when a locationless will do???

 

 

[+Quest Master]

I liked it better without any rules.

Interesting concept. No Guidelines. No approvers. No Moderators. No PTB. I wonder if it could work. I'll have to think on that for awhile. I can tell you now that I don't have the wisdom to know whether it would be any better or worse. I do hope that there will be a geocaching site like this someday so that we can all see how it would turn out. It sure would be fun to watch, if nothing else!

 

-- end of off topic response --

Edited December 4, 2003 by Quest Master

[gorilladf]

I'm going to print this thread out real small, roll it up, stick it in a film can, and place it under a park bench

 

 

J/K

 

My Family and I just got into this. Only 4 finds under our belt in 3 weeks, (Hey it is COLD out!) We go with our 1 and 3 yr old. So some of the longer treks are being saved for spring and the ability for the 1 yr old to walk a little better. (My arms get tired!)

 

So Micros have there place. We have been to some nice parks we never knew were there. Found an INCREDIBLE place to go sleding thanks to a Larger cache.

 

My brother's GF in FL turned me on to this. They found the micro in EPCOT. Said it was a plast because of how many people were around.

 

Since we started we have also been looking for place to hide our own. And 4 things keep coming into our minds:

 

1) Is it a nice place to go? Will people say, "Wow, I never knew that was there!" or "I'm glad we got to see that area?"

 

2) How many geomuggles are around?

 

3) Can we maintain easily?

 

4) How close is the nearest other cache?

 

That should pretty much do it. It is like writing a story. Where do you want to take the reader and why? Don't place a cache for the sake of placing one. Place one with meaning.

 

Just the thoughts of a noob. Happy Caching.

[+Team OUTSID4EVR]

<SNIP>That said, I really HATE what I call the "micro in a haystack" type hides. It really doesn't take much thought or work to make a film canister or bison tube difficult to find in a 1000 acre forest.

A film canister wedged in a crack at the base of a city statue is cool, that same film canister hidden under a rock in a boulder field is lame, IMHO.

Tupperware, ammo cans, micros, and yes, even virtuals all have a time and place. Picking the proper cache container for the enviroment is the first step in hiding a quality cache.

I agree Mopar. In my area, hiders have sometimes gone crazy and cache bombed an area with many "needle in a haystack" hunts. I have always believed, if a LARGE container is appropriate, use a LARGE container. If an ammo box or tupperware is appropraite, use that. If the ONLY container that would work in a given situation is a film can, then that's what you use. I am now avoiding cache bombed areas that are full of micros. As a result, I am travelling farther away to find caches. BTW, the small caches in Central Park are great!

[+Quest Master]

My Family and I just got into this. Only 4 finds under our belt in 3 weeks, (Hey it is COLD out!) We go with our 1 and 3 yr old. So some of the longer treks are being saved for spring and the ability for the 1 yr old to walk a little better. (My arms get tired!)

 

So Micros have there place. We have been to some nice parks we never knew were there. Found an INCREDIBLE place to go sleding thanks to a Larger cache.

 

My brother's GF in FL turned me on to this. They found the micro in EPCOT. Said it was a plast because of how many people were around.

 

Since we started we have also been looking for place to hide our own. And 4 things keep coming into our minds:

 

1) Is it a nice place to go? Will people say, "Wow, I never knew that was there!" or "I'm glad we got to see that area?"

 

2) How many geomuggles are around?

 

3) Can we maintain easily?

 

4) How close is the nearest other cache?

 

That should pretty much do it. It is like writing a story. Where do you want to take the reader and why? Don't place a cache for the sake of placing one. Place one with meaning.

 

Just the thoughts of a noob. Happy Caching.

Just four finds and only two forum posts and these folks have already got it figured how to hide a decent cache! It too bad that certain veteran cachers can't exercise the same common sense and discretion when they hide. I like your guidelines much better than the ones I made up! They are more plainspoken and make perfect sense.

[+Salvelinus]

I recently found a cache in a plastic Gatorade drink mix container. It was out in plain sight, no bushes or rocks within 20 feet. I was carrying my 2-year old in my arms who took great pleasure in 'finding' the cache.

Lame hide? sure

Fun for the kids? you bet!

It isn't always about the cache, the hide, or the locaton, but fortunately there are plenty of different kinds of each to go around.

If that same cache was in a better container prepared with some thought, stocked with some decent stuff and hidden at an interesting spot a mile or two away...down that short, nice little path...back there in the woods...just over by that little creek, maybe in a clever hiding spot.

 

Would the kids still of had fun finding it?

 

Salvelinus

Edited December 5, 2003 by Salvelinus

[+Team GPSaxophone]

I recently found a cache in a plastic Gatorade drink mix container. It was out in plain sight, no bushes or rocks within 20 feet. I was carrying my 2-year old in my arms who took great pleasure in 'finding' the cache.

Lame hide? sure

Fun for the kids? you bet!

It isn't always about the cache, the hide, or the locaton, but fortunately there are plenty of different kinds of each to go around.

If that same cache was in a better container prepared with some thought, stocked with some decent stuff and hidden at an interesting spot a mile or two away...down that short, nice little path...back there in the woods...just over by that little creek, maybe in a clever hiding spot.

 

Would the kids still of had fun finding it?

 

Salvelinus

No, they're not into long hikes yet. We did a 4-mile round-trip earlier this year that wiped all of us out.

We have found a nice variety of caches, some are better stocked or hidden than others. My point was that there needs to be a variety of caches out there. What fun is it if every cache is an ammo box under some rocks or a film can in a signpost?

Also, my 2-year-old doesn't usually 'find' any caches as his older sisters or I find them first. He feels special if I let him 'find' them on occasion. Even though I spotted this cache from 50 yards away, he got to say 'I found the cache!' to his older sister who was walking 20 feet behind us. That made this particular cache a good one, even if it was in a bad container out in the open disguised as garbage.

[+CWL]

In Memphis when it is 0300 and you are rooting around in some urban "jungle" for a cache, things change.

 

Lack of light.

 

Bums asking for money.

 

Stepping on sleeping bums.

 

Getting mugged.

 

Gunfire. Incoming and outgoing.

 

All the stanard night time caching things. It makes them alittle tougher to deal with.

LOL!

 

Sad but true.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I liked it better without any rules.

Interesting concept. No Guidelines. No approvers. No Moderators. No PTB. I wonder if it could work. I'll have to think on that for awhile. I can tell you now that I don't have the wisdom to know whether it would be any better or worse. I do hope that there will be a geocaching site like this someday so that we can all see how it would turn out. It sure would be fun to watch, if nothing else!

 

-- end of off topic response --

Of course it wouldn't work now. It used to work pretty well with a minimum of rules and only the need for a couple of approvers.

 

The biggset change I see with the increase of popularity of geocaching is the huge increase of whiney complaints about non issues.

 

What's lame around here are the complaints. Remember one of the first complaints was lame locationless, then it was lame virtuals and now lame micros.

 

You guys keep shooting yourselves in the foot and we can kill the rest of the fun.

[+Quest Master]

What's lame around here are the complaints. Remember one of the first complaints was lame locationless, then it was lame virtuals and now lame micros.

 

You guys keep shooting yourselves in the foot and we can kill the rest of the fun.

Sorry, I'm thankful for the crackdown on lame locationless and lame virts. They were really getting out of control. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this point. Please refrain from calling my suggestions for improving the game lame complaints.

[Bender]

If you do not like micros, do not look for them. qwitcherbitchenforcryingoutloud. I am not overly fond of puzzle caches myself, but you don't see me trying to have them banned. Some of you people would gripe if you on the lottery. IT IS A GAME PEOPLE!!!

 

Bender

[+Navdog]

Questmaster, I understand you frustration with lame micros, but I don't see any need or way to regulate them at this time. What we need to do is to continue to vocalize our dislike of them as a way to educate others that there is more to this sport than tossing a container out the car window and yelling "MARK". I'm hoping that if a geocaching online magazine gets started that there will be energies spent in educating and showcasing the many ways to make caching more interesting, educational, and entertaining.

[+quills]

I can see that everyone has a good point here and I aggree that there are some out there that should have been regular caches. I happen to like the micros when they are done right. That is I'm not looking through the forest for a pill container and I think the micro should also have an alternate reason for the cacher to be there, like a monument, statue, something like that. I also think the micros should be a challenge not neccessarily very difficult to find but it might be a challenge just to retrieve the container. I have a micro hidden here that is like this. It has an apartment complex right accross the street as well as a busy restaraunt. It's hidden near a monument and I've had more than one cacher say they've had to come back later when less people were around. Not the hardest one to find but still a challenge. Just my two cents worth.

[+Gumby&Pokey]

To us it is the thrill of the hunt. Micro or full size, a cleverly placed cache that blends into it's surrounding's is enjoyable to seek out and find.

If I had a buck for every micro that we have found under the bottom cover plate of a parking lot light pole, stuck under a park bench, or hiding under a large unnatural pile of rocks out in the middle of nowhere I could buy a new Visita

It is the thought or lack there of that goes into the placing of a cache that makes it a great or lame one. The Johnny Appleseed method of placing caches might work for growing apple trees but it litters the landscape with a wake of ill thought out lame caches, both large and small.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Please refrain from calling my suggestions for improving the game lame complaints.

But what if I think your suggestions for improving the game are lame complaints? What if I feel this deep down in my bones. What if I feel your suggestions will hurt the game. Should I sit on my hands?

 

I personally feel you are very selfish. These lame micros sometimes are the only caches a handicapped person can access. So maybe you need to put other peoples concerns ahead of your own.

 

Click on the next page if the ones on your first page don't suit you. It's not difficult to do. The majority of caches on my first page I don't plan to do. I click on the link to the next page instead of complaining about the caches I don't wish to do.

[Keystone]

Let's keep our energies focused on talking about micros rather than the people who hold different opinions about them. Everyone has the right to an opinion and to voice complaints.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Let's keep our energies focused on talking about micros rather than the people who hold different opinions about them. Everyone has the right to an opinion and to voice complaints.

While agreeing with you about opinions I would like to respectfully point out that complaints about virtuals and locationless killed them. I loved both. I would love the complaining to stop. My complaints are just with the complainers. I can't imagine why people can't accept the game as it is.

 

One persons "better" is another persons "worse". A little respect for each other would be wondeful wouldn't it?

[+DustyJacket]

....I aggree that there are some out there that should have been regular caches. I happen to like the micros when they are done right. That is I'm not looking through the forest for a pill container........

After having hunted a micro (pill bottle) placed in a gap on the ground under one of thousands of rocks in the area, with 6-12 inches of leaves fallen on it all, I agree. In the same area (this is in woods) I could have hidden one of those 20MM ammo cans, or maybe a small suitcase.

 

On the other hand, we have someone in my area who plants micros very well in urban settings. I currently have all DNFs with his caches because the guy is devious, but I will get them.

 

Micros in the woods, on the ground, under leaves, where a box could hide may not be "lame", but I am going to avoid them.

 

Micro-caches in more "urban" areas, or city parks, I will continue to hunt.

 

But that is just how I do it. Others will think and do micros differently.

I would hate to see "rules" created for this.

Edited December 6, 2003 by DustyJacket

[+Quest Master]

Let's keep our energies focused on talking about micros rather than the people who hold different opinions about them.  Everyone has the right to an opinion and to voice complaints.

While agreeing with you about opinions I would like to respectfully point out that complaints about virtuals and locationless killed them. I loved both. I would love the complaining to stop. My complaints are just with the complainers. I can't imagine why people can't accept the game as it is.

 

One persons "better" is another persons "worse". A little respect for each other would be wondeful wouldn't it?

I did say "please". I reserve the right to complain and I respect your right to complain also. Isn't that wonderful?

 

I hate these forums. (sorry, off topic)

Edited December 6, 2003 by Quest Master

[+Camping Hoosiers]

Don't forget the old saying... "Lameness is in the eye of the beholder". Different folks with different abilities may see the same cache in different light. As a somewhat functional paraplegic even an easy (maybe lame) cache is a challenge. I am thankful that they are out there for me! If everything was well hidden deep in the woods I could not play the game at all. And on the flip side... if I hide a cache it doesnt have much chance at being a huge challange either. But I do like to hide them so I do. Folks that don't like them should not hunt them and I am not at all offended if they don't. see ya, jeff'

[+bons]

There's one thing I love about micros.

 

When I see a bridge or a pile of wood stacked against a tree I know where the ammo box is...

 

But the number of places people have hidden micros continues to amaze me.

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

Don't forget the old saying... "Lameness is in the eye of the beholder". Different folks with different abilities may see the same cache in different light. As a somewhat functional paraplegic even an easy (maybe lame) cache is a challenge. I am thankful that they are out there for me! If everything was well hidden deep in the woods I could not play the game at all. And on the flip side... if I hide a cache it doesnt have much chance at being a huge challange either. But I do like to hide them so I do. Folks that don't like them should not hunt them and I am not at all offended if they don't. see ya, jeff'

I've hidden a few lame micros that are handicapped accessable. I've hidden some that will take most of the day for a strong athlete to get to. Here are a couple of my lame urban micros that you might enjoy. I make it very clear that just about anyone can get to it.

 

A Lava Flow In Oregon?

I Still Hate Going To Town

[dboggny]

1. Micros should not be hidden if a regular-sized cache could be hidden at the same location or nearby.

 

first i had to justify why my locationless was good

 

then i had to email an approver 30 times to explain why my virt was good

 

now, becuase i live in nyc i am going to have to justify 50 times why a micro is good.

 

you guys are making this game a dadgum pain in the arse.

 

remember something, guy, the reason we have so many lame micros is becuase whiners like you complained about virts. this explosion of micros is a direct product of the "if you can place any cache there..." virt rule

 

thank you very much for making this game annoying.

 

 

danny

Edited December 7, 2003 by dboggny

[+Natureboy44]

Hey all. There has been some interesting points made and I'd like to add my thoughts. There are both good and lame micro caches out there. There are both good and lame ammobox/tupperware (AB/Ts) caches out there. Some of us like micros and some of don't. Some of us like AB/Ts and some of us don't.

 

In general, in support tha variety is the spice of life. Individually, we have the ability to choose what we participate in and to choose what we don't participate in. If functionality can be added to the site to differentiate between micros and AB/Ts and enough user would like this functionality, we should ask the administrators to consider adding this option to the site (e.g., as another choice in the "type" menu for pocket queries).

 

The possibility of a cache rating system also sound interesting, although reading the historical logs of a cache has generally given me a good idea of what to expect. As much can be learned by what has been said and what has not been said in a log.

 

Finally, lets all remember that is a vast spectrum of players of this game/sport, and a little tolerance can go a long way. We can all speak our minds without attacking those of differing opinion.

[+Quest Master]

first i had to justify why my locationless was good

 

then i had to email an approver 30 times to explain why my virt was good

 

now, becuase i live in nyc i am going to have to justify 50 times why a micro is good.

 

you guys are making this game a dadgum pain in the arse.

 

remember something, guy, the reason we have so many lame micros is becuase whiners like you complained about virts. this explosion of micros is a direct product of the "if you can place any cache there..." virt rule

 

thank you very much for making this game annoying.

Don't blame me!

 

I'm not the guy who waypointed an ordinary manhole cover and decided that it should be a virtual cache.

 

I'm not the guy who invented the idea of posting a pic of a jeep and the coordinates where it was seen to score a point in the game.

 

I'm not the guy that is hiding a magnetic hide-a-key on the bottom of a dumpster behind the gas station or a film canister in the shrubbery beside the mall parking lot.

 

The persons who charge that I am just whining should more carefully consider the reason for the complaints. I will not care when and if there is a serious crackdown on micros because of too many lame ones being hidden but the persons who are most affected such as persons who live in populated places and the physically challenged had better hear the alarm and step forward with some ideas for keeping them viable. If you can hide a good micro, do it! It is the very best thing you can do to demonstrate that micros are not inherently lame. The problem, as I see it, is that the purveyors of lame micros can hide ten stupid ones in less time and with less effort than you can hide one good one. It is a shame that I should miss yours on account of the others but that is probably what is going to happen.

Edited December 7, 2003 by Quest Master