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Just Noticed You Can Still Log Archived Caches


gpsblake
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how do you archive a virtual? Because the owner doesn't have the time to verify the claims of finding them I would figure. I did a message board search of the person who logged that archived cache. Not the first time they been caught padding. Oh well, not going to get upset over one person when 99% of geocachers are great people who don't pad totals and really love the sport.

 

Cheers,

Blake

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I would think that the finder had this one in their notes in case the chance to log it came up. Possibly for a long time, and, then found it was archived after 'finding' it. I would have logged it too in the same situation..... Probably.

The thing that really interests me is that the software make it possible to do this.

Diablo's point is good too - why on earth archive this one anyhow?

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Well why not log an archived cache? In all honesty how does that hurt anyone? Is that cheating?

 

I have logged a traditional cache that was archived because it was still there. If I had driven some place to find a locationless or virtual and fufilled the requirements I also would log it.

 

There are lots of things to concern ourselves with, why put this on the list? Want more rules??? :)

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Well, as the owner of the archived cache, may I make a point?

 

Last winter, I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. So I decided to archive all my caches, thinking I wouldn't be able to support them. As it turns out, there's no reason why I should have archived the virtual and locationless, as they don't get many hits.

 

I've been checking when people log the virtual or locationless caches. I've just been too lazy/busy/sick to unarchive them.

 

So, I've sent email to GC asking them to please unarchive all of my locationless and virtual caches. This is especially a good idea, since I plan on starting to hide traditionals again.

 

Marty

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Well why not log an archived cache? In all honesty how does that hurt anyone? Is that cheating?

Then why have archived caches at all then if you can still log and find them? This is a debate going on circles. BTW, I have already gotten several emails about this person padding their totals in just two hours so I must have opened up a can of worms, which I didn't mean to do.

 

I have no need to comment further about it pubically as this thread does not reflect positive on geocaching, if you wish to comment, email me and we can discuss in private.

 

As for me, I'll just go back to lurking the forums.

 

Cheers,

Blake

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Last winter, I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. So I decided to archive all my caches, thinking I wouldn't be able to support them. As it turns out, there's no reason why I should have archived the virtual and locationless, as they don't get many hits.

well, I am glad that you are feeling better and wish you well.

 

Cheers,

Blake

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Well, as the owner of the archived cache, may I make a point?

 

Last winter, I was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. So I decided to archive all my caches, thinking I wouldn't be able to support them. As it turns out, there's no reason why I should have archived the virtual and locationless, as they don't get many hits.

 

I've been checking when people log the virtual or locationless caches. I've just been too lazy/busy/sick to unarchive them.

 

So, I've sent email to GC asking them to please unarchive all of my locationless and virtual caches. This is especially a good idea, since I plan on starting to hide traditionals again.

 

Marty

Marty I hope you're getting a handle on that. Good luck.

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I have an archived locationless cache, and since it has been archived, 18 people have posted Found It logs in the last 10 weeks since it was archived. Some have e-mailed me first to ask if they can post a found it log, while most others just go ahead and post their finds...in either case, they did take the trouble to find it and they obviously enjoyed finding it, and each of their logs adds value to the cache. Absolutely no harm is done in them logging an archived cache and it has brought a smile to their face to do so, and isn't that the whole point to gecaching and life in gerneral? So whats the big deal...why should anyone really care what others are up to, if it is no way harms you.

 

As someone already mentioned, a lot of people, myself included, keep a list of caches to do, and then they go and find it, only to discover it has been archived...they did go to the trouble of finding it (mostly the case with locationless and virtuals), why why shouldn't they get credit? If geocaching.com didn't want this practice, then they would remove the feature to log archived caches. Although I think that before this happens, it would need to be thought out, since some people that find caches while on vacation, sometimes do not get to log it until a few weeks later when they are back home, and in the meantime the cache may have been archived.

 

I've seen many other people either by accident or on purpose log caches online as Found It, even if the cache is missing...or sometimes it is there still, but they just don't find it. Now I may not agree with them logging it as a find and I wouldn't do it myself, but they choose to for whatever reason, and again no harm is done to anyone, but someone enjoyed doing it. Lets worry about bigger things in life and not minor things like this.

 

We all geocache for our own reasons, and lets not spoil it for others.

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I have three things to write about, so here they come.

 

1. I heard just the a couple of days ago on an event we hold here in Göteborg, Sweden, that one person was out walking when he suddenly found a cache he didn't know about. It was an archived one that was still out in the forest (or where it now were hidden). In that case I think it is okay to log it, because the owner of the cache has left it in it's hidingplace.

 

2. Event can be logged afterwards, that's great. Sometimes people are on the events but forget to log. After a while they notice it, and at that time the event is archived. So therefor it is great that they can log it anyway.

 

3. I was doing a multicache just a week ago. It was a three-stage multicache. But the final stage was not accessable nowadays. Also the finalcache was destroyed just a couple of days after the finalcache was placed. In 1,5 years time, only one person had done this cache. The cache owner hadn't been able to replace the lost cache since the area for the final cache was closed and not accessable anymore.

So they wrote that we should try to go so close as possible to the final cache area and mail them a photo as a proof we had been there.

We did the 2 first stage and found the place of the third stage and mailed them a picture. We also wrote the "Found It"-log. Then we mailed the Admins about this.

They archived the cache, because it was not approved as a Virtual cache. It was approved as a multicache where you should come to a final cache. Not 60 meters away and mail photos.

Was it wrong that we logged this one, since we didn't find a final cache? But the cachepage told everybody that there nowaday was no finalcache and we should mail..?

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Was it wrong that we logged this one, since we didn't find a final cache?

That's a personal conscience matter as far as I'm concerned. I don't think I would have but I wouldn't point a finger at your for logging it.

 

This isn't a championship here. We're just having fun. No one loses if someone logs the same cache 50 times or logs a cache they didn't finish. Let's just have some fun.

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We were struggling a half day with a three step city multicache. For the first part, we needed to fix a boat (!) if we didn't want to climb at least 100 feet on over 50 years old rotten wood, about 12 feet above the water. (Freezing cold water in Sweden right now...) And then balancing on one feet and reach for a note on a rotten pole 6 feet away from the rest of the rotten wood.

 

After that searching under a old shipyard-dock...

 

To finally find that the final coordinates are impossible to get to, without trespassing!

 

We had to spend like 3-4 hours or caching in central Gothenburg to do this cache. Therefor we thought we could log it. We did all the possible steps, and mailed a picture as the logtext said we should do.

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We had to spend like 3-4 hours or caching in central Gothenburg to do this cache. Therefor we thought we could log it. We did all the possible steps, and mailed a picture as the logtext said we should do.

Did I get this right - you did not find the cache container, nor wrote anything to logbook? And you still claim you found it ??? :):)

 

I hope this hobby is not going to this... Everybody could just go near the cache and claim they found it...

Edited by Captain_Morgan&Family
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Did I get  this right - you did not find the cache container, nor wrote anything to logbook? And you still claim you found it ???  :)  :)

 

I hope this hobby is not going to this... Everybody could just go near the cache and claim they found it...

Maybe you didn't notice in the post you refered to, but the cache owner TOLD them to log the find that way. I think that if you are following the cache owner's instructions, then you get to claim the find. :)

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The cache was hidden as a 3-stage multicache, where you were given the coordinates to the first step. On the spot you had to find a couple of numbers, do a little bit of math and find out the second stage coordinates. There you should look for a number again, calculate again and finally get the coordinates to the final cache.

 

From the beginning was there an actual cache in the final stage, but when the first (and only before us) cacher was there like 3 days after the cache was presented on geocaching.com were the cache destroyed. The cacheowner didn't replace it in over 1,5 years time. Instead they just wrote, get to the coordinates and take a picture to proof you have been there. We tried to do it, but the area was closed with fence and barb-wire. So we stop at the gate, about 60 metres away, took a picture and logged the cache according to the owners text on the cache page.

 

But we also contacted the admins about the cache, since it was not correct. We didn't know about this before we came to the final step.

 

In a 1,5 year period, we were the second to come to the final. The first one didn't find a cache either. That kind of cache shall not be active. If the cache owner doesn't replace it and/or move the final to a public place, it should be archived. And it was archived after our logs also.

Look at The cache page

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Is this on purpose or a bug in the system where people can log caches even after the cache has been archived?

 

Judging by the controversy here, maybe it would be best to limit the type of log to "Write note" only for archived caches. Of course that would mean a change at the system level...

 

I know that not everyone would be happy with this solution, and I'm not entirely satisfied with it either, but it would put and end to people deliberately "padding" their stats. Personally, I find that sort of dishonesty petty and unworthy of any member of the geocaching community. It demeans those of us who've climbed over ruts, rocks & roots, braved foul weather and faced all manner of adversity just to find that prize. Anyone who'd stoop to that probably doesn't log "Didn't find it" outings because it wouldn't look good on them.

 

As far as archived caches go, I'd like to share a case in point:

A virtual cache, Monumental Bridge, near my house was recently archived to make room for a physical cache in the vicinity. I'd been to this place many, many times even before geocaching came on the scene but I never had the cache page with me so that I could record the info the cache owner required for confirmation. Now it's gone and I've missed the opportunity. Ya snooze, ya lose. I'm not going to cry about it. I'll likely go back and take a picture of myself at the spot and post it as a note rather than a find as long as the powers that be allow it. The cache owner still has the ability to delete my log entry if he so wishes.

 

Rest assured that I won't get caught twice; as soon as the new cache shows up, race is on!

Edited by biltal
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I just had an experiance where just bought a TB to track all my caches that I have been to. One of the caches has been archived. I back dated it to the day i was there. All of a sudden an admin emails me saying that they marked it as "not found" because it is an archived cache. Not a big deal that I am down one cache... just thought it was weird... I even emailed back the emails the owner and I exchanged, but I have heard nothing.

 

Stomps

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If you have signed a logbook in the cache, then I think it's okay to log the archieved cache on the internet. You can for example be travelling and do some geocaching, and when you get to internetaccess a couple of days later, then the cache owner has archived the cache but you had already found it before that!

 

There have also been a couple of times where people has thought the cache has been gone, the owner has archived it. But suddenly, a cacher finds it and log it, and the admins makes the cache active again. That's okay for me...

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I don't see the problem.

 

There are many valid reasons to log an archived cache.

 

1) Cache is still there.

2) Cache was archived after you found it, but before you logged it online.

3) Original log was deleted for whatever reason.

 

What is being ignored in this thread is that it is the cache owners responsibility to determine whether the find was appropriate. There is only a problem if the cache owner is no longer active.

 

I assume that this is the case cited by Stomps in which an admin contacted him. Of course, if you are just logging the cache to drop off and pick up the same bug and you did originally log it as a find, you need not even leave the logs on the cache page. You can make your logs to drop it off, go to the TB page to pick it back up and then immediately delete the logs from the cache page. The bug will still show the visit and the mileage.

Edited by sbell111
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I can understand if the person wasn't active, and he/she hasn't been on in a while... a month or so. But when emails to the owner were exchanged... a bit much...

 

As for the TB backlogging.. I was told the best way was to copy the original log. Delete it and then re-log it with the TB.

 

When i checked last there was no score to be kept and this game had no winner. So why would the powers that be feel that they have to change my log? Especially when i had a valid reason to do so?

 

I think some people are WAY to competative about this. I thought this was about getting out and finding new places and the challange of the hunt? But I'm sill gonna be considered a NooB so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

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When i checked last there was no score to be kept and this game had no winner. So why would the powers that be feel that they have to change my log? Especially when i had a valid reason to do so?

 

I think some people are WAY to competative about this. I thought this was about getting out and finding new places and the challange of the hunt? But I'm sill gonna be considered a NooB so I guess I don't know what I'm talking about.

I think you've got a great attitude. In my opinion you fully understand the concept of what geocaching is about.

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While it wouldn't be a big deal if I wouldn't have been able to log this as a "Found It" there are some very valid reasons for logging a Found It on an archived cache. In the below cache, many people couldn't find it and the owner archived it without checking on it. I was looking for a cache that was hidden to replace it, looked in a good place to hide a cache and found the cache. Writing a note would have been less satisfying but would have been acceptable. As long as you could add a log some way.

 

Swano Lake

 

Ironically, on this cache the first and last finders of this cache didn't have the correct coordinates to it.

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Is this on purpose or a bug in the system where people can log caches even after the cache has been archived?

It is on purpose that people can log archived caches. As outlined above, there are various valid reasons for being able to log them. It is up to the cache owner to decide whether a log should be there or not.

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Jeremy,

 

If it is up to the owner why did one of the admins change mine? The owner and I had emailed back and forth. I found the exact spot, so he told me to log it as a find.

 

Then when i redo it to log a TB that I purchased from your site. I get an admin saying nope?

 

Seems there is a little problem one way or another.

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Within the past hour, someone had informed me that I had marked my own cache as "Found" when I visited it to place a TB. I was unaware that I had done that, so I changed it. He was polite about it, and I don't care one way or the other about numbers. The first two caches I looked for had been destroyed or taken. One had been logged the week before, and confirmed that it was still there, but when I went, I found all the evidence, but no cache. I originally logged it as found, mostly because I was disgusted that it vanished, then later changed my log to just a note. The second one had been destroyed by a housing development several months earlier, but the owner never had it archived. That was a real bummer, too! But, for me, it's still about the hunt, not the items in the cache, or the numbers, it's just about going out and looking and HAVING FUN!!!!!!!!!!!

 

There are a few virts around here that can be confirmed by something that is a permanent part of them, such as a radio tower that has a sign on the gate in front that is the confirmation. If that were archived just because the owner didn't want to keep it up anymore, I think I would still log it as found, I don't know.....or I might contact admin and the previous owner about adopting it as one of my own.

 

errrrrrrrr, ummmmmmmmmmmm............ :P geoCaching :P

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It is up to the cache owner to decide whether a log should be there or not.

Thank you Jeremy. Now maybe we can let another complaint die the death it deserves. :P

That does not explain, or justify, why an admin who had no knowledge of the situation would change my log.

 

Stomps

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That does not explain, or justify, why an admin who had no knowledge of the situation would change my log.

And ranting about it here in a public forum is not going to resolve anything. If you have a complaint about an approver, send an email to approvers@Groundspeak.com and it will be handled by TPTB.

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That does not explain, or justify, why an admin who had no knowledge of the situation would change my log.

And ranting about it here in a public forum is not going to resolve anything. If you have a complaint about an approver, send an email to approvers@Groundspeak.com and it will be handled by TPTB.

Ranting? I think i have been very polite and thoughtful in my questions. I have not inflamed or impuned anyone. I am just asking a question that so far I have not gotten an answer to.

 

As far as a complaint, once again I was just asking a question in response to someone else. Is this not the propper place to ask questions? These are public forums... hence the name.

 

There are quite a few antagonistic people around here i have noticed.

 

Stomps

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Ranting? I think i have been very polite and thoughtful in my questions. I have not inflamed or impuned anyone. I am just asking a question that so far I have not gotten an answer to.

 

As far as a complaint, once again I was just asking a question in response to someone else. Is this not the propper place to ask questions? These are public forums... hence the name.

 

There are quite a few antagonistic people around here i have noticed.

 

Stomps

Hey, Stomps....ya got your answer, so why are you continuing to antagonize with these replies? People in glass houses........

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