First To Find Greed

[+briansnat]

WE LIVE FAR OUT IN THE COUNTRY AND THERE AREN'T MANY CACHERS OUT HERE. I HAVE GOTTEN 2 FTF'S BECAUSE WE ARE SO FAR OUT, I AM GOING TO PLACE AT LEAST 3 MORE CACHES OUT HTIS WAY AND I AM SURE THAT THE SAME PEOPLE WILL BE FTF ON ALL OF THEM, BECAUSE WE ARE SO REMOTE. THE FIRST ONE I PLACED AND THEY WERE SO EXCITED BECUASE THEY ARE NEW AND THEY GOT TO BE FTF. SO HOW DOES ONE PREVENT THIS? NOT PUT ANY CACHES OUT HERE, THE CLOSEST ONE TO MY HOUSE IS 3 MILES AND IT IS MINE THE NEXT CLOSEST IS OVER 10 MILES AND WE ONLY GO UP FROM THERE.

 

Left side of your keyboard there is a key called "caps lock". Turn it off.

[ju66l3r]

Recently in the New England forums, a local cacher sponsored Captain Kidd's Treasure Hunt. He hid 4 small wooden treasure chest full of of fake treasures around New England and gave a series of clues to their locations. These prizes were highly sought after and I was lucky to get my hands on one of them.

 

About 2 weeks after the 4th chest was found, he put out a bonus chest which was considerably larger than the others an he welcomed all, including previous finders to try to find it. As luck would have it, I found that one as well.

 

After posting my find in the forums, It was mentioned that I was being greedy because I found 2 of these chests even though the cacher running the contest specifically said that previous finders were welcome to join in.

 

The point is, you really shouldnt get mad at someone whos playing the game well. FTF is open to everyone and everyone has an equal shot at it. You can be FTF too if your willing to do what it takes to get there first such as drive far, or get up in the middle of the night which I have done on MANY occasions.

Except that one thing you do not mention is that not only were these FTFs but they were also one-time caches. The first one-time caches were placed in 4 extremely different regions of New England to attempt to reach the largest portion of local cachers (SW CT, S ME, SE VT, SE MA). The final cache was placed central to all 4 of them.

 

If you had been the FTF on your two chests but left a prize (either chest you then had) at the second one's place for the first person *not* to have found a chest, then I don't think there would have been any hard feelings. Even in the posts on this topic, I pointed out that I'm not angry that you found it first. If it had been just another cache, I would have signed the log second and moved on. The issue with this specific situation is that the cache itself was a *prize*. The Magellan rules are down, but I'm fairly sure that everyone could only turn in 1 Grand Prize ticket.

 

The situation of these one-time caches is not the same as what was originally discussed in this thread. FTF on a permanent geocache means that everyone else can log and trade when they get there whether they were first or not. FTF even on a one-time cache means soon, the cache will be out again for someone else to be a FTF. FTF on a prize cache means you collect something of some value and it's out of circulation. Don't you think there would have been some outcry if a single person had collected 40% of the Magellan Grand Prizes tickets?

 

There is a difference between the metaphysical "greed" of FTF and the greed of taking almost half of the prizes in a contest.

 

Now, if you let it drop, then it would probably just go away as "oh yeah, that thing WH did...".

[+Marky]

SO HOW DOES ONE PREVENT THIS?

There is no need to prevent it (and there is no way to prevent it). It's just part of the game. Just be glad that someone is interested in finding your cache.

 

--Marky

[+flask]

i've said some of this before....

 

i LOVE FF's . i do not know how many i have. more than a few. and for each one i have, i probably have a few more where i tried but didn't make it there in thime.

 

if the reason i'd gotten my FF's was because everyone was hoping to give other people the chance, i'd be some hacked. the only thing that makes FF'ing good is that it's hard to do. if you want to take turns and take your time, that's why the caceh stays there after the FF.

 

...we hope.

[WH]

Ok, maybe citing Kidd's treasure hunt was a bad example and I in now way inteded to stir up bad feelings. My only point, is the fact that FTF is open to anyone who wishes to seek it. Everyone has access to the cache information at the same time and has an equal chance to get it.

 

FTF is almost like a race, where the cache is the finish line and just competing in the race, whether you get there first or not, is alot of fun.

[+JohnnyVegas]

I do not how may first to finds I have, maybe 12. While I do like a FTF I have my limits, the cache has to be in my county, I have lived here 50 years so I know my way around. Like others have said before me, you have to be ready to leave at a moments notice, you have to watch for new listings. You have to have a flexibale schedule, You have to be signed up for the new caches alert service (I forgot it's called.) And do not be surprised of you still are not FTF. I went for a FTF on news years day this year, Not in my county. 25 miles as the crow flies, but 45 miles driving. I had to avoid road blocks for flooded roads and use roads that I did not know. The advantge of a GPS with local roads displayed helped out. Of course I left at 7:30 am and I knew that no one would leave on News Years day in a storm with flooded roads to find a geocahe, I get there after a little over an hour and I get to log in as Second to find, but i have a great story to tell.

 

Then there was the time a new cache came up a mile from my home at around 8PM, got my headlamps and flashlight, raced down the road, ran up a hill and got second to find, I cacher from the next county 20 miles way got it first.

 

Then there was the 3 new caches came up in 24 hours in a radius of 5 mles and I got all three FTF Shame on me.

 

Buy the Way I do have signiture items that I drop off in all the caches I find not just FTFs. I don't what your problem is with signiture items. Mine are buttons, a lg. size and a sm. sizes for micros, the lg. has a photo of my girlfreind and I that reads, "We're not lost, just geocaching, Johnny Vegas and Julie" the sm one just says "Geocacing, Johnny Vegas and Julie"

 

I see I have no new e-mails so I can have another cup of coffee before I do todays geocaching.

[+CoronaKid]

I'm sorry, but I find the idea of limiting yourself to just a few FTF's comical. I have 13 FTF's and I got most of them by simply stopping by on the way home from work.

 

Anyone that checks for new caches regularly should be able to snag some FTF's. I realize that in some areas this may be much tougher, but I think that's what make getting FTF all that much more fun.

[SCP-173]

What I think should be changed is the people who keep a tally on FTFs and make sure to let everyone know. I've got a bunch, but couldn't tell you how many. Here's a news flash... no one cares how many you found first! As the saying goes... you snooze you loose. If you're really that bent on getting first finds and upset you're not you could always just hide caches with a new name and sign the log book with your real name.

[WH]

So then if noone cares how many FTF's someone has, then why does anyone care about other stats such as caches or TB's found. If it truly is all about "the hunt" then why not eliminate keeping track of these stats and just have fun.

 

Or at the very least, make a person's stats only visible to themsleves and not the entire GC community.

[+shunra]

So then if noone cares how many FTF's someone has, then why does anyone care about other stats such as caches or TB's found. If it truly is all about "the hunt" then why not eliminate keeping track of these stats and just have fun.

 

Or at the very least, make a person's stats only visible to themsleves and not the entire GC community.

I'd certainly object to that. Moreover, I'd actually recommend the opposite solution.

 

If some cachers manage to get upset about the fact that some people boast their FTFs, whereas at the same time nobody begrudges other people's four-digit find counts, this might just be the result of the fact that the find counts are official, whereas FTF counts can only be kept by individuals themselves, who might be perceived as boasting of it.

 

I therefore suggest an official FTF count. The result will be that we'll start congratulating each other about our skills/luck/determination, rather than get angry about those whom we perceive of as boastful.

 

The idea of getting angry about someone else's finds is as absurd in my mind as the notion that I would be upset about the fact that someone else's cache count might be boosted by the fact that he lives in a canche-dense area.

 

Shunra

(who hunts FTFs, but doesn't keep track of them... Maybe I should!)

[adampierson]

FTF... My thoughts...

 

They are part of the game. If you have a problem of veteran cachers getting all the FTF, there really isn't anything that you can do about it. I don't believe this to be a newbie vs. veteran issue, nor do I believe this has anything to do with skill.

 

It boils down to time (dependant on lifestyle) and timing. How soon you find out about a new cache and your lifestyle where you can drop everything and pack up and go for the cache.

 

I don't count myself as a veteran cacher (for that matter WHAT IS the criteria one has to meet before becoming a veteran cacher? 500? 1000 finds?). I just hit 100 finds and out of the 100 finds I have 3 FTF.

 

I'll agree I do get a unique thrill about being the first to find a cache. But it is totally unreasonable to ask others to back off in finding a cache, and wait for someone else to get the FTF.

 

Just be content on FINDING the cache and being treated to a unique experience about the area where the cache is located or how clever a job the hider did to hiding the cache.

[+dino_hunters]

I just bagged a FTF during lunch, about 40 minutes ago!!!

[+Ed Rad]

OK, I've been sifting thru this thread for a while and I really don't understand what the big deal is here. FTF, last to find, 43rd to find....as long as I find that's all that matters. We have a few cachers in my area that thrive on FTF's and that's great for them. In fact, I like to sit and watch the cache to see if anybody beats them to it. I personally won't drop what I'm doing to run out and grab a cache just to say FTF. I do have some FTF's but it was just dumb luck that I was the first one there. I say...FTF people, keep on doing it. I'll eventually get there and enjoy it just as much.

[WH]

I therefore suggest an official FTF count. The result will be that we'll start congratulating each other about our skills/luck/determination, rather than get angry about those whom we perceive of as boastful.

I dont see how FTF count could be kept track of truthfully. The fact that someone logs the cache online first, does not necessarily mean that they found the cache first. On a few occasions where Ive been FTF, Ive actually been 3rd or 4th logging it online. The opposite also holds true, where I was not FTF, but I logged it online first.

 

There would have to be some way of determining who was FTF that would eliminate the possibility of cheating.

 

One possibility would be to create a password type of system. The cache owner would write the password down on a slip of paper and put it in the cache. The first finder would then retrieve the paper, enter the password into the system and be officially recognized as the FTF.

 

This method would ensure that no matter what order the online logs are in, the true FTF would be granted to the correct person.

 

Just an idea.

[ju66l3r]

It would be easier to have the cache owner grant the FTF. I doubt you'll see many owners going out of their way to give a FTF to someone who did not rightfully get it (a source of potential "cheating" in this system). I don't know of any owner who hid a cache and then *immediately* ignored it. This also eliminates the problem of those caches with reserved FTFs, because even if someone ignores the rules of the cache and completes it anyways, then the owner simply does not recognize them. The only person disappointed/mad with this system would be the FTF who did not follow the rules of a specific cache.

 

This would be the easiest system to add to what the website already does. When the cache owner gets those first few logs, they simply need to find the FTF one and click a link to give that log the nod.

[adampierson]

I dont see how FTF count could be kept track of truthfully. The fact that someone logs the cache online first, does not necessarily mean that they found the cache first. On a few occasions where Ive been FTF, Ive actually been 3rd or 4th logging it online. The opposite also holds true, where I was not FTF, but I logged it online first.

 

There would have to be some way of determining who was FTF that would eliminate the possibility of cheating.

 

I don't see why we need to go that far. After all, we don't have a similiar system to prove someone actually found a cache and signed the log. Personally I don't care if FTF stats are collected. The only time it matters to me is when I make the find, when I signed the log, and when I go log it on the web site. After that, I look forward to the next find and speculate on my next FTF.

[+Geo Ho]

The only issue I have with someone being a FTF 'ho is that if the same person was scoffing up the cool FTF prizes. If I was a cache owner that the same person was always FTF on and always taking the cool FTF prize, I would probably stop putting in a cool FTF prize. Or, let the FTF 'ho log his/her FTF and then go out and put a cool STF prize in.

 

It's cool to want to be first to find, but not to be greedy about it.

 

Personally, I like to find a virgin cache, but I won't usually go out of my way to snag one. There's too much aggrevation and frustration involved. I think I've maybe been FTF on 2 or 3 caches and they were all purely accidental in the course of a day of caching.

 

I know that I'm going to get a lot of flack about this post but this is my opinion . . . such as it is.

 

Happy caching and stuff!

[dutchmaster]

How can the rest of the cachers be a FTF if these vets hog them all?.....................give someone else the opportunity to experience the excitement of being a First to Find finder.

This FTF must be a local or cityfolk thing because I've seen/watched caches go months before a FTF.

 

I just got this idea from another cacher on this site (forgot where, so please stand up) and will be using this in some form in the future.

 

This idea appears to me like a RESET mode where you bring enough swag to switch out the entire contents of the cache (maybe not the logbook) and log a (yet to be defined) post about it so everyone knows it a "fresh" cache, ?, maybe don't post it and surprise the next finder.

 

Yup, chewing gum for the brain. A cache that renews or reset after a period of time? One might never know when they'll be a FTF. What about a prize for Next To Find.

 

I didn't go through all the post and sorry if something was already mentioned. I bring this up later in a new thread.

[+briansnat]

It would be easier to have the cache owner grant the FTF. I doubt you'll see many owners going out of their way to give a FTF to someone who did not rightfully get it (a source of potential "cheating" in this system).

 

So the owner has to run out and see who logged the cache first? No thanks.

 

Besides, the person who signed the logbook first knows he's the FTF and the people who signed later know they weren't, so what's the point?

 

The only issue I have with someone being a FTF 'ho is that if the same person was scoffing up the cool FTF prizes. If I was a cache owner that the same person was always FTF on and always taking the cool FTF prize, I would probably stop putting in a cool FTF prize. Or, let the FTF 'ho log his/her FTF and then go out and put a cool STF prize in.

 

There is a somewhat famous geocacher in NJ who is nearly always the FTF, because the nature of his job leaves his mornings free. To his credit, he always left any FTF prizes for the next finder. It's one thing to be gung ho about getting FTF's but I think it's slightly cheesy to go around scooping up all the FTF prizes.

 

This FTF must be a local or cityfolk thing because I've seen/watched caches go months before a FTF.

 

Its more of a local thing I think. I have had caches go a couple of days and as much as a week before the FTF and its not for lack of geocachers in the area. Heck, we have 16+ million people living within an hour drive of most of my caches.

Edited March 22, 2004 by briansnat

[ju66l3r]

So the owner has to run out and see who logged the cache first? No thanks.

 

Besides, the person who signed the logbook first knows he's the FTF and the people who signed later know they weren't, so what's the point?

No. Most caches have a "wow, it was neat to be the FTF on this cache" log.

 

The point is that most of the recent thread posts have been concerning how you'd report FTF stats correctly here...which would take some of the boasting out of being FTF and give it the same legitimacy as something like being a 4-digit finder (since nobody fights for 4-digit finders to be more fair...etc). You'd know what the point was if you had read more of the thread.

[+wimseyguy]

I don't get what all the noise is all about. Some cachers really get their cache-rocks off by being FTF's. If you want to join them, then be prepared to plan your life around that goal. Don't complain and ask them to wait until you or others have a chance. Sheesh, need some cheese and crackers too?

I have a few FTF's among my 400+ finds, but honestly have no idea how many or which ones. I don't recall ever running out as soon as I see one pop up, and finding a cache after several others is just as rewarding to me as getting there first.

I play to find, not race (well most of the time.)

Now if I'm out caching with others-being the first of the group to spot the cache is a giggle , but that's a different thread.

[+Quoddy]

I have about a half dozen FTF, but I go almost out of my way not to be FTF. I usually wait for at least 3 to 5 days after a cache comes out to go for the find. If no one has gone for it by then, I go, if for no other reason than to "get the ball rolling". I can see where some cachers consider it a good thing, but for me being 20th is just as good as being FTF. Getting out and doing the cache is IT.

[+hikemeister]

I don't get what all the noise is all about. Some cachers really get their cache-rocks off by being FTF's. If you want to join them, then be prepared to plan your life around that goal. Don't complain and ask them to wait until you or others have a chance. Sheesh, need some cheese and crackers too?

Exactly -- since we now have all types of whine.