First To Find Greed

November 27, 2003

I enjoy geocaching very much. The excitement of being the first to find a new cache is one of the most memorable experiences a new cacher can have.

My problem is that most veteran cachers drop what ever they're doing as soon as a new cache is posted just to be the FTF. I caught a posting this AM about a cacher who just got his 20th FTF. I'm sure there are many with more than that!

How can the rest of the cachers be a FTF if these vets hog them all?

What really irritates me is when you think you might be a FTF only to find you are the second to sign the log and you recognize the name of the cacher ahead of you as being one of these FTF Greedlings. To make matters worse, they leave some dumb little thing like a card or keychain rubbing it in that you're not first.

I understand it is all part of the game, but I was wondering if it might be suggested in a more official manner that if you are a FTF, limit yourself to two or three and give someone else the opportunity to experience the excitement of being a First to Find finder.

Anybody out there feel the same way?

November 27, 2003

zac59410...Although I understand what you are saying, this is still a sport...and it is intended to be that way. I hate losing, also, but all you can do is to try your best and be happy that at least you played the game! Don't be disappointed if you miss the "first goal"! Hang in there, be tough, play the game, and you will succeed! You will NEVER win, if you don't play! zac59410...14 finds....

1.3k · November 27, 2003

Sometimes being second is fun.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...09-1157458ef254

November 27, 2003

I was afraid people might focus on the "second to find" aspect of my post.

I was hoping they might address the issue of:... giving someone else a chance.

Edited November 27, 2003 by ScouterMark

1.3k · November 27, 2003

I'm not sure "giving someone else a chance" is always such a good idea. Let's pretend it happens.

1) You place your cache.

2) Everyone decides to give "someone else a chance".

3) It sits there.

4) 24 hours later you're wondering if the co-ordinates are wrong.

5) It sits there.

6) Another 24 hours go by. You're out there at midnight with a flashlight making sure the dang thing is still there.

7) It sits there.

8) It's been 72 hours now. You know it's personal. Everyone hates you. You go and remove the cache, angry at the world and everyone in it.

9) 2 hours later someone logs a DNF.

And hey, signiture items are not there to "rub it in". This is not a competion unless you make it one, and if you're making it one then buy a headlamp, click reload a lot, and run off without showering or even bothering to get dressed. If it's a contest than do what you need to do to win. If it's not, then don't think of it as one.

November 27, 2003

I caught a posting this AM about a cacher who just got his 20th FTF.
--------snip---------

What really irritates me is when you think you might be a FTF only to find you are the second to sign the log and you recognize the name of the cacher ahead of you as being one of these FTF Greedlings.

-------snip--------

Is it a puzzle cache? Is it very well hidden and sports about 4 or 5 no finds a day or two after approvel? If it is just a 1/1 traditional then FTF means nothing to me. Who cares who was able to get up early that day and run out and log it.

If you want the other cacher to not log any caches 1st just so others can, then does not that ruin the thrill of being FTF? You're only FTF because that other guy laid low on purpose.

I don't get it.

So a cacher actualy keeps track of his FTF's? Weird.

Love those statboys.

1.4k · November 27, 2003

So long as no one is using 'inside' information to get to the cache before anyone else, where's the problem?

All things being equal, you've got as good a chance of anyone to find a cache before anyone else.

If it bothers you this much, then watch for new caches and go and get them before anyone else has a chance -- just be mindful that others might accuse you of being an FTF hog.

*****

November 27, 2003

So long as no one is using 'inside' information to get to the cache before anyone else, where's the problem?

Careful, J5. That topic is grounds for another warning. DAMHIKT.

November 27, 2003

Some potentially helpful advice -- many of us do like to be FTF -- I have quite a few. When you get up in the morning, check for new caches in your area, and plan to get to them before about 7 AM. That's about it -- pretty simple actually. No need to "give everyone a chance," since it already exists -- all they (you) have to do is stay on top of things. Happy geocaching, Happy Thanksgiving, and good luck getting some FTF's. HM

Posted later -- Mark -- glad to see some other Scouts doing geocaching. A number of the local Scoutmasters down here (myself included) are active in geocaching, and we even have some BSA oriented geocaches. It is a good cross-over sport with orienteering.

Edited November 27, 2003 by hikemeister

November 27, 2003

So long as no one is using 'inside' information to get to the cache before anyone else, where's the problem?

Careful, J5. That topic is grounds for another warning. DAMHIKT.

No names were mentioned, so I think it should be okay. ;-)

But the way "some" approvers are handing out warnings you can never tell. Maybe he thinks it's Christmas time and they are gifts! Or maybe it's those meds again. ;-)

1.4k · November 27, 2003

RobertM wrote:
But the way "some" approvers are handing out warnings you can never tell. Maybe he thinks it's Christmas time and they are gifts! Or maybe it's those meds again. ;-)

Could be the meds, but you'd better be careful, I've been told that there will be no more tolerating of posts that have anything bad to say about the way these forums are being moderated -- not that I would say anything negative about the inability to discuss issues that effect us all.

*****

21.9k · November 27, 2003

This forum thread is about First to Find practices. Further posts about moderator policies will be deleted as being off-topic.

November 27, 2003

All I can think to say on this topic is "ya snooze ya lose"

November 27, 2003

ScouterMark, FTF's are just another aspect of this game that many people find appealing. While Groundspeak has made it known that they are totally opposed to any type of competition associated with geocaching, competitiveness is only human nature and those with a competitive streak find that competing for the FTF adds an exciting dimension to the game. If you are keen on playing that game, then you will have to compete on their level. And yes, there are people competing for FTF that have inside information. Do a search on Approvers and FTF’s and you’ll see what I mean. Expounding on it here will only get me in trouble.

Happy hunting,

November 27, 2003

LOL!

1.2k · November 27, 2003

Tadpole

Posts: 2

Joined: 3-June 03

I enjoy geocaching very much. The excitement of being the first to find a new cache is one of the most memorable experiences a new cacher can have.

I must be missing out on something here. I have several FTFs and it wasn't because I raced out to the cache as soon as it was approved. It just happened that way. But they don't seem to stand out as one of my most memorable experiences of geocaching. When I look back on my most enjoyable experiences, I think of the hike, the scenery, the company I was with, the wildlife I spotted along the way, the challenging finds that were cleverly hidden. If being FTF is your most memorable experience, then you might be missing out on what the sport is all about.

1.2k · November 27, 2003

I have several FTFs and it wasn't because I raced out to the cache as soon as it was approved. It just happened that way. But they don't seem to stand out as one of my most memorable experiences of geocaching.

You've just given yourself the answer!

Some weeks ago I came back from a tough hike to a snowy mountain peak cache, and the that was one of my most memorable experiences, just a it would have been to you.

But then, as i came home way after dark and logged it, I saw there was a new cache out there, 5 miles from home as the crow flies and 15 miles driving, and I went for it at 11 pm, and had all the excitement of a beachwalk in the moonlight, of wondering whether someone else would get there first, and of having an "official" excuse for not being home in bed. So that was cetainly a memorable experience, too.

2.1k · November 27, 2003

If being FTF is your most memorable experience, then you might be missing out on what the sport is all about.

....to me. I believe the words you are looking for are "to me".

Everyone enjoys different aspects of geocaching. Some enjoy trying to beat other locals who also enjoy beating them to be the first to write in the log book and peruse the goods.

I like aiming for FTF on the occasions I have been around to see a cache get approved in my immediate area. I have also taken pleasure in finding a cache at the other end of a long hike. I have also had fun perusing a public library for a hidden urban cache.

Of course, if we could gain access to the logs in an automated manner (an SDK or web-toolbox for GC.com) we could even provide the leaderboards and things for those interested that this listing service is uninterested in providing at this time.

But to the original poster's query, I think the whole point of FTF is that it was listed and considered fair game for anyone. If they had nothing better to do and therefore went out looking before you had a chance, you'll have to wait until next time. There is an e-mail service that will notify you of new caches minutes after they are posted. I believe it is linked to from the TX Geocaching Association's pages.

1.1k · November 27, 2003

We have begun circling the city as much as possible. Thanks to the wireless laptop we are able to check for new caches an average of 6328 times per day. As soon as a new cache appears we head to it and log the ftf. Twice we have physically injured people we thought where cachers, turned out they where not (sorry grandma) but you can never be to safe. The ends justifies the means. All you non-FTF'rs need to quit whinning, losers.

I hope I don't have to mention that the above post is intended to be funny. No animals or grandmothers where hurt during the creation of this post.

November 27, 2003

I was afraid people might focus on the "second to find" aspect of my post.
I was hoping they might address the issue of:... giving someone else a chance.

Sound the same to me...

You can get e-mail alerts to new caches in your area by signing up here. Plan on dropping everything the minute you get the e-mail, or you won't get the FTF.

I have 5 or 6 FTFs, some of which I wanted, and some of which were chance. I've only been beaten on a FTF I wanted once, and it was a great experience in itself.

1.3k · November 27, 2003

What if the veteran cachers have already found all the caches in the area. So they are desperate for caches and then a new cache comes up. Hence the rush out to get it. What you interpret as FTF greed may just be cache craving.

1.3k · November 27, 2003

Excellent point by Stayfloopy.

I think the reasons for any given person getting to a cache first are as different as people themselves. A new cache pops up one mile from a cacher's house and they happen to see it on the site just as it is posted. They are able to get there first. Many people do look at it as a form of competition. There are factors out of your control, such as your proximity to the cache when you first become aware of it's existence, and the time it is posted to the site. If you are at work, or sleeping, you are at a disadvantage compared to someone sitting next to their computer, frequently checking for updates. If being first is that important, you need to take steps to gain an advantage over the people with whom you are competing. If you don't like competition, perhaps you should forget about trying to be first. I have been FTF on a few caches, and most of them were pure luck and lack of much competition at the time. As the sport gains popularity, I expect that FTF's will become fewer and farther between. I would gladly trade the lack of competition for FTF for a thriving caching community in my city. The more caches to find, the better. Even if I'm tenth to find them.

1.3k · November 27, 2003

It's definately better to be FTF to a travel bug key (one that has the coordinates for a cache) or travelling cache. That's worth leaving the house at 5am for. At least when you're second to find on a regular cache, it's still there. Being second to look for a moving item...

1.2k · November 28, 2003

If you're really FTF hungry, sign up with two different accounts, go hide a cache under one name, but also log the cache under your second name before you hide it, then when your cache gets approved, log it as FTF. Even if someone beats you to logging online, they can't say they were FTF because your other name was already on the log sheet.

Disclaimer: The above was just a joke and not to be taken seriously.

3.9k · November 28, 2003

I was hoping they might address the issue of:... giving someone else a chance.

OK. I'll bite. I'll tell you what. I'll wait until the cache gets approved. Then once it's up online for all to see, then I'll run out and grab the cache. Oh, wait, That's what I do now. Like most a lot of players I am extremely competative. Out of 200+ finds I'd guess I have about 20 FTF's matbe more. Yet I haven't had any advance notice, or any more of an advantage as anyone else. If I'm doing something wrong please let me know.

competitiveness is only human nature and those with a competitive streak find that competing for the FTF adds an exciting dimension to the game. If you are keen on playing that game, then you will have to compete on their level.

What he said.

Edited November 28, 2003 by J&MBella

November 28, 2003

I was much like the originator of this thread when I first started caching. Seemed to me that some folks were always FTF, even though they'd found numerous caches (one had 1000+). As time went by, I finally got my own FTF, and it was so sweet!

Now, I search for new caches when I sit down at the computer, and before I turn it off for the night. Occasionally, one comes up that is close enough to get to before anyone else, and I'm off. Last week, I hit one on the way to work and was FTF at 2:00 in the morning. It just worked out that I was going that way anyway.

Recently, I was FTF on a cache that the locals have been waiting some time for. I got the find three days after the cache was posted. The opportunity was there for everyone to go get it, but I was first!

Sometimes, I get the FTF, some times not, but I always have fun doing it!

PS: Hey Keystone App! you're KIDDING, right?

Just edited. Sorry didn't realize that -large- was that large!

Edited November 28, 2003 by emccoyii

3.8k · November 28, 2003

I was afraid people might focus on the "second to find" aspect of my post.
I was hoping they might address the issue of:... giving someone else a chance.

but everyone DOES have a chance... you have the same chance as someone who was FTF, just depends on what you want to do with it.

keep an eye on the new cache page(s), when you see one posted, drop everything. can't expect people to sit back and not find one after it's been posted. if it's that important to you to be FTF, you'll have to "play the game". if you can't do that, then don't worry about being FTF. your time will come... at some point you'll see a new cache posted and you'll have the opportunity to find it.

to me, I could care less about FTF. it's fun, yes, but finding the caches, no matter how late in their life-span, is what's important to me.

good luck.

November 28, 2003

Personally, I hate being the first to the cache. There is no way to know if the cache is missing or just mis-marked. Two I did today are well out of cachedom and so have sat untouched for a while. I suspect that they have been removed by the parks people, but there's no way of knowing. Not only was I first to try, I was first to miss...

Oh well, I still got a few...

November 28, 2003

The last two new caches in my area, I have posted a note on the cache page letting all know that I have an eye on the cache and let them know that in 4-6 days I will make a trip to find the cache.

I know theres new cachers and some that have been around for a short time that haven't had a FTF.

The 1st cache Work It Out, I gave a 3 day notice before going for the cache.

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GCH6TE

I have since deleted the NOTE that I made, had I waited another day, another cacher would have had a FTF.

November 28, 2003

What's the big deal about being a FTF? The fun is in the hunt regardless of who got there first, second or never. IMHO.

Edited November 28, 2003 by Oat

November 28, 2003

What's the big deal about being a FTF?

The advantage I see is being FTF allows you to see the cache hidden the way the owner intended.

Of course, there is always a risk in attempting to be FTF. Recently, here in Northern VA, three of us hit a posted cache early in the morning, all three reporteda DNF, only to have the owner post a note saying he didn't expect the cache to be approved so quickly, and had not actually gone out and hidden it.

In this case, the 4th person to visit became the FTF.

November 28, 2003

I guess the question I have is why you cant tet a FF? I look at it sort of like a Garage sale. If you see somthing in the add you want you are going to get there early or loose it.

I dont take things from a cache normally. I like being the first to find. Thats my prize. Sometimes I get it but there are those other times that I don't. Just keep on caching and have fun.

Rick

Its just a game

November 28, 2003

Small hijack.

The advantage I see is being FTF allows you to see the cache hidden the way the owner intended.

Since I'm new at this, is it normal for the folks who find it not to put it back the waythey found it?

I have placed my first one and went to check it today and found it way out in the open, not hidden at all like the way I left it. So I had to put it back the way I originally hid it.

November 28, 2003

Small hijack.

The advantage I see is being FTF allows you to see the cache hidden the way the owner intended.

Since I'm new at this, is it normal for the folks who find it not to put it back the waythey found it?

I have placed my first one and went to check it today and found it way out in the open, not hidden at all like the way I left it. So I had to put it back the way I originally hid it.

That unfortunately happens all the time. :-( Some people have their kids find and replace the cache. Others have their own idea where they think it should be hidden.

We had a cache that was moved by a local cacher to the other side of a railway track several meters away from its original location. Why? Heaven only knows. :-(

November 28, 2003

We had a cache that was moved by a local cacher to the other side of a railway track several meters away from its original location. Why? Heaven only knows. :-(

November 28, 2003

We had a cache that was moved by a local cacher to the other side of a railway track several meters away from its original location. Why? Heaven only knows. :-(

Maybe he/she wanted to include the added thrill of dodging a fast moving locomotive?

November 28, 2003

Someone else mentioned this, but I'll say it again. Trying to be first to find is a LOT of work.

This area ( northwestern Pennsylavania ) has some hard core cachers. One fella hit over 300 hundred caches in his first year of caching. Some of us do night caching, and I personally LOVE going out in blizzards for caches.

A recent micro went up, and 3 different groups raced for F-T-F. WHo got it ? None of us. It still hasn't been found. None of us drove less than 30 miles, and the other 2 groups made 2 tries. Thats the nature of the game.

IF everyone has the same info, its released at the same time, and somebody is just crazy enough to go for it at 3am, how is that being greedy ?

Keep tryin and you'll get it pal !

3.9k · November 28, 2003

I no longer actively hunt caches due to a health problem (hopefully fixed soon.) but when I did, I didn't really care if I was FTF unless there was a special prize offered. How does being FTF enhance the experience? Now if you were the only one able to find the cache...that would be special. Or if you were the first to solve a puzzle cache. Otherwise I don't get the what people see in being FTF.

El Diablo

38.2k · November 28, 2003

Anybody out there feel the same way?

I don't. I couldn't care less if I was the first, or the 50th finder of a cache. I don't see this as an issue. If someone wants to get up at 3 am to get a FTF on a cache, more power to them and if being a FTF is so important to you, perhaps you should get up at 2 am.

Edited November 28, 2003 by briansnat

1.7k · November 28, 2003

What's the big deal about being a FTF? The fun is in the hunt regardless of who got there first, second or never. IMHO.

The FTF doesn't have a "game trail" to follow.

It is more like an exploration.

Having said that, I was FTF on only one cache.

I saw it crop up just before going home, so I stopped off to get it.

I wouldn't change my plans for a chance at a FTF, nor would I get up early.

(The FTF on my first cache placement never logged the find online, so there is the risk that you won't be a FTF, but rather a FT Log.)

1.6k · November 28, 2003

There can also be the greed associated with finding movings caches over and over again within a very short period of time. Like, if you've found it 4-5 times in a month, and there are a lot of new cachers who have NEVER found it, it's probably time to give it a rest.

November 28, 2003

I have a feeling that being FTF on a cache, where other have held back to allow this, would be less than satisfying anyhow - a bit like cheating at solitare...

November 28, 2003

Maybe because I am fairly new at this, being FTF isn't that big of a deal (I have only found about 6 caches). To me, it is the game and finding the "treasure" that is the exciting part. Last week, I was looking for a good 15 minutes at a wall of hedges and I cannot begin to describe how happy I was when I finally found the cache... I was just about to give up!

Perhaps after I have gotten a few more caches under my belt, being FTF will be more important, but for now, it is the thrill of finding caches and seeing new parks or areas that I otherwise would not go to that are exciting to me.

1.5k · November 28, 2003

FTFs are a fun aspect to caching. Many around here enjoy getting FTFs as a personal sense of accomplishment, not to out-do anyone. Although there is probably one or two teams out there that do that, but you can't have a utopia, so it just gets shuffled away with the TPS reports.

November 28, 2003

I have two first to finds that were very memorable for me. One because it was roughly 7-11 miles round trip hike to the top of a mountain and the other was the end of a string of caches that to Faile and I three days to finish with Ajetpilot right on our heels!

Ok and our first, FTF was pretty cool too since we beat out Ajetpilot by about 30 minutes.

Cemetery Quest Burley

Cemetery Quest Old Abandoned (the end of the race!)

Gold Mountain. Now this was a fun FTF.

We're still the only ones that have found that one!

1.5k · November 28, 2003

I try to make the FTF on my puzzle caches memorable. When I set out my first Matrix cache, I really enjoyed the e-mails I got from cachers looking to confirm their answers, and enjoyed even more the logs of their find. There is always their own unique story to tell, some compelling, some injuring me by the amount of laughing I do (read Team GPSaxophone's log for my It...Has You. cache). The reward is also fairly nice, as it contained gift certificates enough for movie tickets for 2 (evening prices). The next one will either be a gift card for BestBuy or a DVD. But since nobody has found the new one yet, that's still TBD.

November 28, 2003

My problem is that most veteran cachers drop what ever they're doing as soon as a new cache is posted just to be the FTF.

I think stayfloopy's comments are right on the mark. Most of the guys here locally who seem to get lots of FTFs have done all of the caches near them. Wouldn't YOU try for a new cache a mile or two away from you if the next nearest one was 10-15 miles away or more?

I don't want to seem unhelpful, because I appreciate your frustration. (Well - a little bit - I don't care much about FTF. The one FTF I've logged frankly seemed *exactly* like the other caches I've logged.) You need to be faster, or get up earlier or stay up later if you want to be FTF. (I got my FTF at about 1:30 AM.) I've got a friend who has nabbed a bunch of FTF's. He gets up really early to do them, or he gets them over his lunch hour on the day they are hidden. His schedule is fairly flexible. Frequently this is a key to getting FTF - being able to get to the cache as quickly as possible. If you aren't able or aren't willing to do what it takes to get to the cache first, there's not much to be done about it.

Another thing I've noticed that seems to help is that frequently new caches are placed in areas not terribly distant from old caches. If you've done most of the caches in the area, you are liable to be familiar with the general area where the new cache is hidden. This has to be at least a small advantage sometimes. So find some more caches - whether you are 1st or 2nd or 50th.

Most of the folks I've seen who get lots of FTF's spend a LOT more time geocaching than I do. So I figure they deserve what they get. That someone else has advantages that you don't that helps them with this aspect of the game may seem unfair - but that's life.

1.7k · November 28, 2003

The ones with a large no of FTF are two sorts of cacher, paperless, and constantly updating off the net whilst out caching, or someone who's schedule is totally flexible sometimes at the cost of everything else. Oh and another thing you have to be prepared to go out without any hesitation whatever the weather, and be prepared to travel any distance just for that one cache. A recent FTF I did was approx 18 miles from home according to the listing for it, but the distanced actually traveled each way was nearly double. So as you can see it's not being greedy, just being a totally dedicated cacher, also known as stage one geocaching (eat,sleep,breath, think geocaching and nothing else ).Dave

1k · November 28, 2003

The ones with a large no of FTF are two sorts of cacher, paperless, and constantly updating off the net whilst out caching, or someone who's schedule is totally flexible sometimes at the cost of everything else. Oh and another thing you have to be prepared to go out without any hesitation whatever the weather, and be prepared to travel any distance just for that one cache. A recent FTF I did was approx 18 miles from home according to the listing for it, but the distanced actually traveled each way was nearly double. So as you can see it's not being greedy, just being a totally dedicated cacher, also known as stage one geocaching (eat,sleep,breath, think geocaching and nothing else ).Dave

Absolutely!

Seasider

3.5k · November 28, 2003

I've got some FTF's. As I look at my finds, I guess a little over 10% of them are FTF's (37, I think). Out of all that, I've only once dropped everything I was doing to go out and get a cache that was newly placed, and when I did that I didn't get it. This week one of my FTF's had been there for over 2 weeks without a find. The one I got last week hasn't been found again since I found it.

As far as a veteran having an advantage, I can't imagine what it might be. I've seen a lot of retired/self-employed people who have advantages. They're the ones around here who usually seem to head out at 11:00 pm to grab the newest cache. I've had to learn that I'm probably not going to get a FTF in their areas.

Bret

First To Find Greed

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