+Team Cacheopeia Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Ok, everyone... I just talked with a lady from the local parks department here in my town. SHe had NO idea what geocaching was (At first she asked me if it was something where you could use a credit card to take money out from somewhere... I think she was thinking "cashing" instead of "caching!") Anyway, she was very busy and not too interested in listening, but nice enough. She told me to fax something over in writing. Here's my letter so far. Can I have input? ------ To Whom It May Concern: This letter is to request permission to place a geocache in a local Katy park. Geocaching is a hobby in which one uses a global positioning system receiver, or GPSr, to locate a hidden container. These containers are found by using latitude and longitude coordinates. Geocachers are environmentally minded people. Geocaching.com sponsors a yearly park clean-up day, and participants frequently bring bags with them to collect trash found at given locations. Often, cache containers include plastic bags so that other finders may continue to keep the park neat and orderly. Geocachers understand the privilege of having and maintaining good public parks. In addition, geocachers take great care to place their containers out of view of the public eye. This is, of course, to avoid being plundered by whomever happens to walk by and to preserve the sport. It assures, however, that the addition of a cache to a local park will in no way detract from the beauty of Katy's parks. There are many benefits to allowing a caching container on local park property. As stated above, this would include a grassroots effort to keep our parks clean. Also, this would bring nature-loving visitors to Old Katy, which would positively impact tourism in the Heart of Katy. And the hobby of geocaching is family-friendly, so the Parks Department would be allowing another way to use the land our city has for the good of its residents, much like the addition of playgrounds, picnic tables and sports fields. If you give permission for such a cache to be placed, it is understood that the cache shall be removed at any time by request of the Katy City Parks Department. I would be the primarily responsible party. However, should you be unable to reach me, you would be able to contact geocaching.com and have the cache removed. Included with this letter, please find the Frequently Asked Questions of geocaching, an example of a letter that would be included in a cache, and an example of a working geocache that can currently be found here in the Katy area. Geocaching has also been written about many periodicals including the August 14 edition of the Houston Chronicle and Family Fun Magazine. I would be happy to meet with you to demonstrate how GPSrs and geocaching work or to provide you with more information if needed. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) That's a good one. Here's one I put together a few minutes ago. It could use some work, but it's pretty short and to the point. I was always taught shorter is better...in business letters that is. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dear _______: I'm writing to request permission to place a geocache in _______. If you are not familiar with the term geocache, it's the focal point of a sport called geocaching. Geocaching entails a person hiding a small container (the geocache), usually containing a log book and trinkets, then using a GPSr (Global Positioning System receiver) to determine the longititude and latitude of the geocache. The coordinates are then published on the Internet to allow others to find it. Geocaching is a fun, family oriented activity that promotes people getting outdoors and introducing them to areas of historic, natural, or scenic interest. Another benefit of the sport is the geocaching community's commitment to keeping our parks clean. "Cache in, trash out" is our motto and tons of litter have been been removed from our parks by geocachers since the sports inception. Managers of many parks and nature preserves have determined that geocaching is a beneficial activity and encourage the sport on their lands. They see the additional visitors and increased exposure that geocaching brings as a plus. Similarly, geocachers often discover exciting new places through the sport, while getting exercise and gaining an appreciation for these areas. I believe that ________ is one of the special places that would be of interest to geocachers and would like to discuss the possibility of my placing a geocache there. Please contact me at_________ to discuss this. Sincerely, Edited November 25, 2003 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+DustyJacket Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) I would change " mark the longititude and latitude of the geocache" to " determine the longititude and latitude of the geocache" Or they might think we "mark" the location. Edited November 25, 2003 by DustyJacket Quote Link to comment
+BlueDeuce Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) Would it help to mention that this is not for any commercial purpose? Edited November 25, 2003 by TeamX40 Quote Link to comment
+Team Cacheopeia Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 Yes, good thinking, Team X40. Quote Link to comment
+Navdog Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 It might be a good idea to state that caches are usually small clear Tupperware containers, or at least these are encouraged in urban parks, but more importantly, a statement that caches are not allowed to be buried should be included. Quote Link to comment
+geospotter Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Both good examples, but I would explain geocaching before I asked permission. Both examples above start by asking permission at a point when the reader has no idea what you are asking permission for. Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) Would it help to mention that this is not for any commercial purpose? It might be a good idea to state that caches are usually small clear Tupperware containers, or at least these are encouraged in urban parks, but more importantly, a statement that caches are not allowed to be buried should be included. I don't think you want to go into too much detail in a letter. Keep it simple and the details can be discussed later. I know my eyes glaze over the second I open a letter and see more than a few paragraphs and I usually set it aside to look at later. Sometimes later never comes. I'm sure a lot of others feel this way, especially a harried bureaucrat. Both good examples, but I would explain geocaching before I asked permission. Both examples above start by asking permission at a point when the reader has no idea what you are asking permission for. I disagree. The purpose of the letter is to ask permission and that should be first. They may, or may not be familiar with the sport, but in either case the description of the sport is secondary. If I opened a letter that started with an explanation of geocaching, my reaction would be "so why are you telling me this?" I don't want to have to wade through 3-4 paragraphs to determine the intent of the writer. Edited November 25, 2003 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
+Criminal Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Dear ______________ I intend to place a geocache in _________ park. As per applicable rules, I am requesting permission for this placement. Please don’t construe “requesting” to imply that I believe I need your permission. The Frisbee players, kite flyers, picnickers, and jungle-gymers do not request your permission to engage in their respective activities, so it should be obvious where I stand on this issue. I won’t mention that the teenage copulaters, dope smokers, and fudgepackers do not request permission to use the park for their activities either. Insofar as my “request” is concerned, please accept that it is merely a formality and that I will place the geocache regardless of your objections, if any. It should be noted though, that geocachers are generally a great bunch of folks. We routinely clean up trash in the parks and on the trails as we make our way to and from the cache. Additionally, we dilute the population of undesirables by introducing good, law abiding citizens into the parks, myself notwithstanding. Please understand that I make this nonsensical request with the best intentions. I would never pick the lock on the storage shed and let the air out of all the basketballs in retribution just because you remove my cache container, but know that I could. V/R Criminal (Charter Throbbing Member) Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Of course Criminal's letter is perfect. I'd like to see the reaction on Joe Ranger's face when he sees that Quote Link to comment
+ChrisCindy Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Dear ______________ I intend to place a geocache in _________ park. As per applicable rules, I am requesting permission for this placement. Please don’t construe “requesting” to imply that I believe I need your permission. The Frisbee players, kite flyers, picnickers, and jungle-gymers do not request your permission to engage in their respective activities, so it should be obvious where I stand on this issue. I won’t mention that the teenage copulaters, dope smokers, and fudgepackers do not request permission to use the park for their activities either. Insofar as my “request” is concerned, please accept that it is merely a formality and that I will place the geocache regardless of your objections, if any. It should be noted though, that geocachers are generally a great bunch of folks. We routinely clean up trash in the parks and on the trails as we make our way to and from the cache. Additionally, we dilute the population of undesirables by introducing good, law abiding citizens into the parks, myself notwithstanding. Please understand that I make this nonsensical request with the best intentions. I would never pick the lock on the storage shed and let the air out of all the basketballs in retribution just because you remove my cache container, but know that I could. V/R Criminal (Charter Throbbing Member) LMAO Quote Link to comment
+DustyJacket Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Dear ______________ I intend to place a geocache in _________ park. As per applicable rules, I am requesting permission for this placement. Please don’t construe “requesting” to imply that I believe I need your permission. The Frisbee players, kite flyers, picnickers, and jungle-gymers do not request your permission to engage in their respective activities, so it should be obvious where I stand on this issue. I won’t mention that the teenage copulaters, dope smokers, and fudgepackers do not request permission to use the park for their activities either. Insofar as my “request” is concerned, please accept that it is merely a formality and that I will place the geocache regardless of your objections, if any. It should be noted though, that geocachers are generally a great bunch of folks. We routinely clean up trash in the parks and on the trails as we make our way to and from the cache. Additionally, we dilute the population of undesirables by introducing good, law abiding citizens into the parks, myself notwithstanding. Please understand that I make this nonsensical request with the best intentions. I would never pick the lock on the storage shed and let the air out of all the basketballs in retribution just because you remove my cache container, but know that I could. V/R Criminal (Charter Throbbing Member) And you ask why criminal actions always get singled out? Quote Link to comment
+Team Cacheopeia Posted November 25, 2003 Author Share Posted November 25, 2003 Forget my letter. I'm just using Criminal's. Quote Link to comment
+hedberg Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Sometimes I really appreciate living in Sweden, where we are allowed to walk everywhere, even on private property. It is even allowed to camp on private property, as long as you don't camp closer than (I think it is) 300 meter away from the main building on the private property. It is almost impossible to get arrested for trespassing in Sweden! I haven't heard about anyone asked for permission to put out a cache in Sweden, and we have almost 2000 caches! Quote Link to comment
+1cheapmike Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) For some perverted reason, I found Criminal's letter to be right on the mark! Geez, having to be PC all the time gets difficult. Edited November 25, 2003 by 1cheapmike Quote Link to comment
+BrownMule & Jackrabbit Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) Sometimes I really appreciate living in Sweden, where we are allowed to walk everywhere, even on private property. It is even allowed to camp on private property, as long as you don't camp closer than (I think it is) 300 meter away from the main building on the private property. It is almost impossible to get arrested for trespassing in Sweden! Wow! I'm going camping with my buddies, we are all camping in hedberg's yard. Of course we will respect his privacy by camping 300 meters from his front door. HA HA. Just kidding Hedberg. I wish things were that simple in the U.S. Edited November 25, 2003 by BrownMule & Jackrabbit Quote Link to comment
+briansnat Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 (edited) Ok, everyone... I just talked with a lady from the local parks department here in my town. Once your letter has been sent. It's going to take while. The bureaucrat that you sent it to, will have to check with her boss. The boss will sit on it a while, then decide that it's going to require a special use permit. But because geocaching isn't on the permit form, they're going to spend several weeks discussing how to handle it. Finally they will come up with a form just for geocaching and you're good to go...but wait. Someone will say "What about liability?" "We're going to have to run this by the town attorney". After weeks of research, the attorney will decide that geocaching is fine, as long as the cache owner takes out $1,000,000 liability policy and completes a waiver form releasing the towship of any responsibility whatsoever for injuries to anybody seeking your cache. "This is ridiculious" you will say. You'll write the mayor who writes back saying "he appreciates your concern and will look into the matter". Weeks pass and you hear nothing. Several letters and phone calls are met with some vague comment about harrasment, so you lay off. FINALLY the mayor brings it before the town council just to get you out of his hair. You attend the meeting and explain how geocaching is handled in other jurisdictions, how it can be good for the park and you shouldn't have to take out a liability policy anymore than other users of the park do. The council says they will confer with the attorney and get back to you. Six weeks later, they give you the green light to place your cache. Meanwhile 3 caches have appeared in the park and there will be dozens of finds on them. You go to place your cache, but the park is already saturated, so the admin won't approve your cache. At this point (sometime next June) you will head straight to these forums and whine about the fact that there are caches in the area without "permission" and there is no place to put your cache. You demand that the other caches be removed and yours be listed, because you went through all those hoops to get your cache approved by the town. That's it. See you in June.... Edited November 25, 2003 by briansnat Quote Link to comment
Files Family Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Dear ______________ I intend to place a geocache in _________ park. As per applicable rules, I am requesting permission for this placement. Please don’t construe “requesting” to imply that I believe I need your permission. The Frisbee players, kite flyers, picnickers, and jungle-gymers do not request your permission to engage in their respective activities, so it should be obvious where I stand on this issue. I won’t mention that the teenage copulaters, dope smokers, and fudgepackers do not request permission to use the park for their activities either. Insofar as my “request” is concerned, please accept that it is merely a formality and that I will place the geocache regardless of your objections, if any. It should be noted though, that geocachers are generally a great bunch of folks. We routinely clean up trash in the parks and on the trails as we make our way to and from the cache. Additionally, we dilute the population of undesirables by introducing good, law abiding citizens into the parks, myself notwithstanding. Please understand that I make this nonsensical request with the best intentions. I would never pick the lock on the storage shed and let the air out of all the basketballs in retribution just because you remove my cache container, but know that I could. Laughing so hard I spit out my drink! Quote Link to comment
+DustyJacket Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 Briansnat's reply was tounge-in-cheek, but probably very correct. KC Parks told me we can "Move Forward" - but has not yet replied if that means I can place my cache, or we are moving towards a geocaching policy. Sigh............... Quote Link to comment
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