Outing A Cache-pillaging Fellow Cacher

[+shunra]

Friends, I'm at a loss how to handle this ethically.

 

I found a cache today, that according to the online logs had not been found since June. It's a well-hidden cache on a beautiful trail. After having found it, I read on the log sheet a log written by a local fellow cacher in August:

 

"Took the FRS radio (it actually works!!!) and the Carabiner, left sun glasses and car".

 

The sun glasses were children's toy sunglasses, the car was an equally worthless dinky toy car. Except for a pack of colored chalks, nothing of value remained in the cache.

 

I assume that having arrived home, this person felt too embarassed to log this find online. I am the first person to find the cache since then.

 

I will write a note in the cache log, with a picture of what remained of the cache as I found it. But can I out the name of that person? Can I out him on this forum? Should I inform the approvers, the cache owner? I will certainly write to that person.

 

Too many caches end up being filled with trash, but usually it takes some time. This case is clearly different.

[+CachinCin]

Hmmmmm....this is a tough question.

 

I can understand your desire to point out what has happened. However, I wonder how sure you are that the person traded bad things for good (the radio could have been old and used -- the cacher does refer to it as "actually" working). Not logging the find online doesn't necessarily indicate embarassment. Many people log their finds in caches without logging them on the web site. I'm surprised at how many more names appear in the physical logbooks of my caches than on the web page.

 

If you feel that you do have all of the facts correct, then contacting the cacher might be the way to go. It could be that the cacher just needs a good boot-in-the-butt to start playing fair.

 

Personally, I wouldn't "out" this person here on the forums. You have no idea if this is standard practice on the part of the cacher, and posting a name will just create a lot of bickering (at least that's been my experience with forums like this one).

 

Cin

[+shunra]

Hi Cin,

 

How can I know if this is standard behavior? Not often does one find an FRS radio in a cache. However, there are plenty of cases where people take good thigns and leave trinkets. This is just an extreme case.

 

I have seen logs by this person in several caches I've been too, including another cache I found today. I wanted to send him/her a letter just now, asking them to restock the cach, which is really close to where they must love, but I find that the name they sign with is unknown to GC. What can I do?

[+CachinCin]

I suppose the only way you know if it's standard behavior is if you see this person's logs in other caches you find...and those caches have been emptied, or the person indicates he's taken things.

 

Without a name registered here, you don't have many options. I guess you can't e-mail the person, outing them here won't do any good, and you won't be able to complain to the Groundspeak crew.

 

This summer, a cache that I placed with friends was plundered by anonymous geocaching pirates. At least they eventually returned things. It was frustrating, though, and disappointing for the next finders.

 

Cin

[+DoodleCat & MisterKrrk]

You might check to see if the username you see in the logs is used on one of the other geocache websites. I've accidentally discovered a couple of them. The only one I can remember at the moment is navicache.com

[+DustyJacket]

As I found out today, you may not negatively mention GC users in these forums.

 

Also, this sort of thing happens and there is no way to stop or control it. the best thing is to go out and enjoy yourself.

[+Byron & Anne]

Friends, I'm at a loss how to handle this ethically.

 

I found a cache today, that according to the online logs had not been found since June. It's a well-hidden cache on a beautiful trail. After having found it, I read on the log sheet a log written by a local fellow cacher in August:

 

"Took the FRS radio (it actually works!!!) and the Carabiner, left sun glasses and car".

 

The sun glasses were children's toy sunglasses, the car was an equally worthless dinky toy car. Except for a pack of colored chalks, nothing of value remained in the cache.

 

I assume that having arrived home, this person felt too embarassed to log this find online. I am the first person to find the cache since then.

 

I will write a note in the cache log, with a picture of what remained of the cache as I found it. But can I out the name of that person? Can I out him on this forum? Should I inform the approvers, the cache owner? I will certainly write to that person.

 

Too many caches end up being filled with trash, but usually it takes some time. This case is clearly different.

Sorry, but this whine really is getting old. Yes the idea is to trade equal or up. But, I believe the best attitude to take is the same as giving something to a friend and not expecting anything in return. If I leave something, no matter the value, and somebody finds enjoyment in that something there's nothing more I could ask. If they leave nothing, that's their choice.

 

Dollar value isn't the only value. A child might find the cheapest toy the greatest treasure.

I've taken items that were not of any dollar value, but the value was quite high because it sits there reminding me of a fun hunt. I'm sure many cachers have traded both ways. In fact there is no such thing as an "equal" trade.

 

I sugggest that you take pride and enjoyment in belonging to a group that might have provided somebody a little enjoyment in treasure obtained along with the enjoyment of the hunt.

[+DenaliNW]

Sorry, but this whine really is getting old. Yes the idea is to trade equal or up. But, I believe the best attitude to take is the same as giving something to a friend and not expecting anything in return. If I leave something, no matter the value, and somebody finds enjoyment in that something there's nothing more I could ask. If they leave nothing, that's their choice.

 

Dollar value isn't the only value. A child might find the cheapest toy the greatest treasure.

I've taken items that were not of any dollar value, but the value was quite high because it sits there reminding me of a fun hunt. I'm sure many cachers have traded both ways. In fact there is no such thing as an "equal" trade.

 

I sugggest that you take pride and enjoyment in belonging to a group that might have provided somebody a little enjoyment in treasure obtained along with the enjoyment of the hunt.

 

Well said! I only recall the last trade I made, because it was the first trade I had made in months. An Oregon geocoin is a grand thing, but even it paled in comparison to the richness of the final location. Dollar for dollar I probably traded up, but I think I won. But the location - that's what I'll remember long after the geocoin has turned to rust.

[+shunra]

Sorry, but this whine really is getting old. Yes the idea is to trade equal or up. But, I believe the best attitude to take is the same as giving something to a friend and not expecting anything in return. If I leave something, no matter the value, and somebody finds enjoyment in that something there's nothing more I could ask. If they leave nothing, that's their choice.

 

Dollar value isn't the only value. A child might find the cheapest toy the greatest treasure.

I've taken items that were not of any dollar value, but the value was quite high because it sits there reminding me of a fun hunt. I'm sure many cachers have traded both ways. In fact there is no such thing as an "equal" trade.

 

I sugggest that you take pride and enjoyment in belonging to a group that might have provided somebody a little enjoyment in treasure obtained along with the enjoyment of the hunt.

No disagreement at all, and my finds profile reflects my pickyness as to cashes worth taking a day off for - long hikes over find quantity. I certainly do geocaching for the hikes, not for the finds. The find itself is just the destination, just as Before Caching (BC) my destinations would be summits, passes, etc.

 

But trading a working FRS radio *AND* a carabiner for two bits of trash? That's way beyond the average apparently inevitable cache degradation.

 

I *do* hike with children, and I *am* often surprised at what makes their finds worthwhile. While I would often just take nothing and either one of signature CDs, my kids are the ones who find value in the deposited trash. I am very well aware of that. But that doesn't justify the attitude taken by these "cachers". You can't just leave trash and assume that it's going to be of value to someone. If that would be the case, we might as well dump a day's load of household garbage into a cache, on the assumption that *someone* might be happy with some tangerine peels. After all, if you put them on a wood stove, they produce a nice smell.

 

And if this is done by a 'cacher' who uses the GC pages as a resource for caches, but doesn't join even as an unpaying member and never reports his findings on-line, and cannot be congratulated by e-mail on his find, with a polite request to restock the cache, that goes beyond every modicum of good taste.

[+bigeddy]

But trading a working FRS radio *AND* a carabiner for two bits of trash? That's way beyond the average apparently inevitable cache degradation.

This sort of thing is annoying but probably not worth following up on unless, perhaps, you know the person. Cache degradation reminds me of the Tragedy of the Commons and leaves me feeling a little discouraged about people. In any case, an FRS radio is not necessarily worth much since you can buy a low-end one for around $20; if it is used the market value may be far less.

[The_Brownies]

I thought geocaching was about, if you take something, then you leave something. It does not say take something of equal value and leave something of equal value. Look at geocoins. Moun10bike put out over 1000 of these which cost him a little bit of money. How many people took the coin and left something that was equally as good. Sure there are some of us, Myself included, if I take a nice item, I leave a nice item. But let's not split hairs here. Instead let's try and educate new cachers. If it's a trash cache, then remove the garbage and leave good items, or leave trash for trash.

[+George501949]

Keep in mind that for every person that's involved in this hobby, you have a different idea about how we should have fun caching. All in all the purpose of any hobby is to have fun, not to get stressed out because someone does not play the way we think they should. And just to let you konw, for me, I could care less about what is in the box, its finding the darn box that gets me going. So my opinion is to just go have some fun or start a hobby where the main purpose is getting stressed out to have fun.

 

This post is not meant to offend anyone, only to suggest having some fun.

[+evergreenhiker!]

Keep in mind that for every person that's involved in this hobby, you have a different idea about how we should have fun caching. All in all the purpose of any hobby is to have fun, not to get stressed out because someone does not play the way we think they should. And just to let you konw, for me, I could care less about what is in the box, its finding the darn box that gets me going. So my opinion is to just go have some fun or start a hobby where the main purpose is getting stressed out to have fun.

 

This post is not meant to offend anyone, only to suggest having some fun.

George is right. this is supposed to be a fun game...let's keep that in mind. Finding the box is my objective...not what's in it.

[+TotemLake]

Ditto!

[+Lazyboy & Mitey Mite]

I know a person that takes way more than they leave. I've even received e-mails from users who have gone into my caches right after this person. I take an "oh well" attitude about it. I suppose you could personally talk to this person. For me it isn't worth the effort.

[+CachinCin]

A way to turn this to the positive is to leave more than you take. I don't always do this -- usually I'm a TNLNSL cacher. However, I carry a bag of things to leave in caches when they could stand some restocking. My backpack also has a towel in it (for drying out wet caches), a few small notebooks and extra ziploc bags (to replace full or soggy logbooks), extra pens, and a couple of spare film canisters (to replace micros that have cracked or lost a lid).

 

Sometimes it's more fun to save a cache than to find it. With friends, I've rescued...oh, probably 10 caches. A couple of times we've been asked to adopt the cache. It's fun for us, and in my mind it helps to make up for those don't play quite as nicely as they could.

 

Cin

[+shunra]

A way to turn this to the positive is to leave more than you take. I don't always do this -- usually I'm a TNLNSL cacher. However, I carry a bag of things to leave in caches when they could stand some restocking. My backpack also has a towel in it (for drying out wet caches), a few small notebooks and extra ziploc bags (to replace full or soggy logbooks), extra pens, and a couple of spare film canisters (to replace micros that have cracked or lost a lid).

 

Sometimes it's more fun to save a cache than to find it. With friends, I've rescued...oh, probably 10 caches. A couple of times we've been asked to adopt the cache. It's fun for us, and in my mind it helps to make up for those don't play quite as nicely as they could.

 

Cin

That's a great idea. I've improved a few caches myself, but stocking up on some essentials to save an unexpected cache-in-need is a good idea.