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Reviewer Niatpac Nagrom

Language Policy In Nordic Countries Forum

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Every now and then a question about the languages used in this forum rises up. Here's some basic guidelines for all of you:

 

Preferred languages: ALL genuine languages spoken in the region i.e. Inuit (language), Icelandic, Norwegian, Swedish, Danish, Finnish, Lappish and Gipsy (language). Did I forgot some ? ;)

 

Add a language-prefix in front of your subject, like SWE: or NOR: or LAP: or DAN: or FIN etc. If you use English, do NOT add prefix.

 

Please write in English, if you think your topic has international interest.

 

And when you start a topic in your local language, please add a short résumé in english too, so foreign geocachers know, what your topic handles.

 

- Tahu Nuva -

 

P.S. I would like to see geoacachers from every Nordic country to chat here actively, but I guess I'm asking too much, as Norwegians, Swedes and Danes have their own forums in their own servers... :)

Edited by Tahu Nuva

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Even a local issue can be interesting for the rest of the nordic countries...?

 

So if the Finns write anything interesting in Finnish, the rest of us will sit there and doesn't know about it?

 

I do sometimes look around in the different forums, and you will find a lot of interesting things in the different countries forums. (Except the frenchspeaking, they are hating english more than the finns :))

 

So, I would prefer if we all wrote in english if possible.

 

One good example: The event in Denmark has text in both english and danish. And there is already a couple of sweds and norwegians that have said that they are interested of coming to the event. If they wrote in just danish, not everybody should be able to understand. Perhaps some germans, dutch and so on, will come also, just because of the englishtext on the page?

 

I of course understand that not everybody doesn't speak/write english, but if possible would it be great if we did write in english.

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Even a local issue can be interesting for the rest of the nordic countries...?

 

So if the Finns write anything interesting in Finnish, the rest of us will sit there and doesn't know about it?

Yup, I bet the thread about Finnish translations of common geocaching terms is generally interesting. What do you think, is geokätköily better translation for geocaching than geokätkentä? ;)
I do sometimes look around in the different forums, and you will find a lot of interesting things in the different countries forums. (Except the frenchspeaking, they are hating english more than the finns  :))
I don't know any Finn who hates English. Absolutely no one. Well, maybe back in my school years like 15 years ago there was someone, but nowadays nobody I know hates English. Besides, there's no French speaking forum here. There has been few French language posts in the All Nations forum, though. :D
One good example: The event in Denmark has text in both english and danish.
If this example is to demonstrate the differences in language policy between Finland and Denmark, sorry no bonus: AFAIK, there has been three event caches in Finland so far. The first one had only an English language cache description (supposedly all participants were Finnish). The second event cache had also English language description, in addition to the Finnish one. The furthest cacher came from Florida, USA. The third and so far the newest event cache was a CITO event. Cache page was both in English and Finnish. So much for the 'Finnish hatred' for English.:)

 

This is not about a nationwide aversion for English language. I'm surprised you even thought about such a silly thing. I just peeked in the Swedish geocaching forum. I was not surprised to see you among others to speak Swedish there. As pointed out numerous times, there is no separate Finnish forum for geocaching topics in the internet. And why should there be, when gc,com provides us an excellent means to communicate locally here?

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Okay, I admit. I have written the most part of the messages on the Swedish board.

I think that one of the reason why the Swedish board started was because of the quality of the geocaching.com-board. Often you couldn't access it or it was extremely slow.

 

But I think that we all can agree that our new approver has set some rules about the cachepages that is good? One really bad example of a cachepage is this locationless: Link

Making a locationless in Swedish language??

 

It might be as you say, since you Finns doesn't have your own forum like the rest of us have, you are talking here instead. But I think it is pitty that you are talking a language no-one else understands...

 

Why I reacted on the use of finnish here in the forum is the amount of threads in finnish. Normally it is considered rude to speak a local language when there are people from different languages in one room IRL. But it can, as I mentioned above, be like you said, the lack of a own finnish forum.

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As a Finn living in the Netherlands, I don't know much about the Swedish geocachers and their cache description pages :) , but the Dutch and the Germans certainly do not want to use other languages than their own.

 

Lots of geocache pages are in Dutch only, and even the logs for TBs coming from other countries, such as the US can be in Dutch only :) ! Plus, Dutch geocachers often/sometimes log their cache finds only in Dutch even if the cache is in Spain for example :) ! Germans are a lot the same sort, for example Germans placing caches like this one in France write the description only in German. That's what I call rudeness :) .

 

Especially it is a pity because in the Netherlands perhaps the highest proportion of population speaks English as a foreign language in Europe. Having English descriptions everywhere could attract "geocache tourists" from other countries as well. For example I would like to do German caches on the other side of the border, but I don't understand German. I guess there are Dutch geocachers feeling the same, and also Germans. I understand just enough Dutch that I can do geocaches with Dutch-only description, when I have a dictionary with me, but sometimes I have also had misunderstandings in them too.

 

In all this sense, Finnish geocachers are in my opinion one of the most polite group in writing cache pages also in English, especially when I consider that Finland is located in a more remote place where foreign geocachers can not as easily (=coming by car) come to as to the Netherlands for example :) .

 

Here in the geocaching.com forums, German-speaking people write in German and so on. Their topics also could be of interest for other people as well, so I don't think that the use Finnish language should be especially more discouraged than German for example. I think that the present policy at this forum therefore is good.

Edited by eero

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Geocaching is a world wide game

 

SO then we use a world wide language :)

:) That's like demanding all the chess players to speak English in their regional forums because chess is played worldwide. :):)

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Okay, I surrender... We found a travelbug earlier this autumn that had a TB-page written in dutch. How the heck shall we know what its goal are, when it is written in dutch???? :)

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We found a travelbug earlier this autumn that had a TB-page written in dutch. How the heck shall we know what its goal are, when it is written in dutch????  :)

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that one. There are lots of TBs whose goal is to travel "everywhere in the world" and/or have a special mission out of the Netherlands, and the only language used is Dutch. And then if you contact the person that owns that TB, it clears out that the owner has no problem coping with the English language. An example of "difficult TBs" is the Star Sprinkler serie, which consists of 12 similar TBs (and cache descriptions) :).

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One Nordic language is missing: Korso B):D:P:D

See: Korsoraattori

 

That page translates web pages to Korso language. Page is open only during Finnish office hours... :(

 

What's Korso language? Well, it's the language that only Finnish teenagers understand... :D:D

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We have also a lot of differents dialects in Sweden that no-one will understand...

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As a Finn living in the Netherlands, I don't know much about the Swedish geocachers and their cache description pages :P , but the Dutch and the Germans certainly do not want to use other languages than their own.

 

I fully agree with you as geocaching activities are regarded. The situation is even worse in Hungary where the majority of caches cannot even be found on gc.com, but only in the local Hungarian database. It is hardly possible to guess the meaning of Hungarian cache descriptions (as Hungarian is so different from most other languages). The even greater problem is caused by travelbugs that are put in Hungarian caches by foreigners and taken out by local cachers who do not even know the geocaching.com site. Often the TBs get lost.

 

It seems to me that the existence of a strong local geocaching community with lots of extra material which is offered only in the national language, is one of the major reasons for the fact that so many cache descriptions in the Netherlands, in Hungary and to a lesser degree also in Germany are not available in English. It even happened to me that I got flamed in Germany because I logged a cache in English (the cache description is offered in English and German and the cache owner does know English!).

 

I came to the conclusion that the creation of too many closed communities is harmful to the international setting of geocaching. Personally, I do not have any problem with the existence of local forums if the topics that are discussed there are typically restricted to issues of local interest. It starts to become a problem if local geocaching pages, data bases and forums become the *only* source of information for the majority of geocachers of a certain country.

 

Especially it is a pity because in the Netherlands perhaps the highest proportion of population speaks English as a foreign language in Europe.

 

That's true although typically Scandinavians also have a very good knowledge of English in general. I started geocaching about 13 months ago, and I realized in the meantime that the proportions of caches described in English in various European countries do not correlate at all with the average language capabilities in those countries.

 

Since this is the Scandinavian forum, I'd like to point here that I appreciate very much the high degree of cache descriptions that are available in English in the Scandinavian countries. When I spent a week in August in Copenhagen, I was overwhelmed by the friendlyness of the local cachers. Of 17 caches I attacked, there was only one lacking an English description, and for every single cache, there was at least one log in English. Some of the cache owners whose caches I have found, even contacted me after my log in English or German. Thank you ;).

 

Here in the geocaching.com forums, German-speaking people write in German and so on. Their topics also could be of interest for other people as well, so I don't think that the use Finnish language should be especially more discouraged than German for example.

 

The difference is that there exists a separate German-speaking forum which is not the case for Finnish. I am trying to advocate the usage of English wherever possible, but even I would not post in English to the German-language forum on this server. Personally, I do not mind having several languages in one forum (there also exist English and German postings in the newsgroup alt.rec.geocaching), but this multi-linguality must be taken care of in the name of the forum. I do not mind if the Finnish cachers prefer to discuss local topics in Finnish, but maybe this is because I am living far away from Scandinavia. What really matters for me are that cache descriptions and important logs (e.g. when the cache disappeared) are made available in English whenever possible.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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Thank you for your input on this topic, cezanne. I was actually hoping to have some international opinions in this thread. It's especially great for me, since I follow the German Speaking forum quite a lot, as you probably have seen.;)

It seems to me that the existence of a strong local geocaching community with lots of extra material which is offered only in the national language, is one of the major reasons for the fact that so many cache descriptions in the Netherlands, in Hungary and to a lesser degree also in Germany are not available in English. It even happened to me that I got flamed in Germany because I logged a cache in English (the cache description is offered in English and German and the cache owner does know English!).
That is so wrong! Many foreign cachers in Germany will possibly benefit from your English log in that cache. I have only a little understanding for this kind of behaviour. In cache logs (online or in the logbook) English or native laguage of that country should be engough for any cache owner.
I came to the conclusion that the creation of too many closed communities is harmful to the international setting of geocaching.
That is most likely very true.
Personally, I do not have any problem with the existence of local forums if the topics that are discussed there are typically restricted to issues of local interest. It starts to become a problem if local geocaching pages, data bases and forums become the *only* source of information for the majority of geocachers of a certain country.
That is in no way what is happening here in the Nordic Countries forum considering the Finnish language. For a foreign geocacher in Finland is most likely very easy to receive Finnish geocaching information either in this forum, in cache pages and/or directly asking some random Finnish geocacher.

 

I know only a few geocachers who have said they prefer not using too much English, although they read and listen it satisfyingly. Despite that they have made their cache pages also in English. I see no reason to debase their discussion in their native language in this forum.

Personally, I do not mind having several languages in one forum (there also exist English and German postings in the newsgroup alt.rec.geocaching), but this multi-linguality must be taken care of in the name of the forum.
That has been done in a way by moderation in the beginning of this topic. You're right, though, that it can't be seen in the forum name. For some reason it was crystal clear for me that Nordic Countries forum would support also Nordic languages.
What really matters for me are that cache descriptions and important logs (e.g. when the cache disappeared) are made available in English whenever possible.
Then things are already pretty much the way you like it here in Finland. Like I said somewhere else, I've seen less than ten Finnish-description-only caches here. Many of the caches are in English only, and there has also been requests for Finnish translations for those caches...

 

Also, willkommen hier in Finnland zu cachen, cezanne! Auch Deutsche Übersetzungen sind erhältlich, wenn nötig. :)<- Broke the rules! Call the admins! :P

 

MFG, regards,

Divine

 

Edit: typos

Edited by Divine

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It even happened to me that I got flamed in Germany because I logged a cache in English (the cache description is offered in English and German and the cache owner does know English!).

That is so wrong! Many foreign cachers in Germany will possibly benefit from your English log in that cache. I have only a little understanding for this kind of behaviour.

 

I fully agree with you. I wrote something very similar to the cache owner.

In my home country, Austria, there are by the way many cachers who log in English.

 

Personally, I do not have any problem with the existence of local forums if the topics that are discussed there are typically restricted to issues of local interest. It starts to become a problem if local geocaching pages, data bases and forums become the *only* source of information for the majority of geocachers of a certain country.

That is in no way what is happening here in the Nordic Countries forum considering the Finnish language.

 

I again fully agree with you. That's why I do not see any problem at all with having Finnish postings in this forum. The sentences above refer to the situation in countries like the Netherlands, Hungary and also Germany. I even like the idea of having people from different countries and with different languages in one forum. It makes it easier to meet a larger number of cachers at one place. Moreover, there is the additional advantage that it is much easier for a foreigner to post here in English and get English responses. In the German-speaking forum, English postings are not that well-received.

 

Personally, I do not mind having several languages in one forum (there also exist English and German postings in the newsgroup alt.rec.geocaching), but this multi-linguality must be taken care of in the name of the forum.

That has been done in a way by moderation in the beginning of this topic. You're right, though, that it can't be seen in the forum name. For some reason it was crystal clear for me that Nordic Countries forum would support also Nordic languages.

 

I guess you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Of course, the Scandinavian forum should be open to *all* Nordic languages. I was referring to the German-speaking forum. It is a problem to post English there because the forum is unfortunately called "German speaking". (BTW: I am not at all happy with that

forum's appearance, but that is offtopic here. I am sure you will be able to guess what I do not like there. My home country is not that well treated by gc.com ....)

 

It is very important for me to do my best in trying to exclude as few people as possible. I know quite a number of people who do not like to write in English and I have no problem at all if they prefer to use their own language. I even offer all my caches (which have typically rather long descriptions) in both English and German

where the German translation can be seen as a service to those cachers who do not feel that comfortable with English.

 

What I really do not like are arguments like "In Germany the language is German and someone going to Germany should learn German." (I simply would not be able to learn even a small subset of the languages of the countries which I have already visited.)

 

Then things are already pretty much the way you like it here in Finland. Like I said somewhere else, I've seen less than ten Finnish-description-only caches here.

 

You are perfectly right. I appreciate the effort of the majority of the Scandinavian geocachers regardless of which country they are from. They belong to the group of geocachers worldwide who are most open to cachers who do not speak the respective's country language.

 

Thanks also for your invitation to cache in Finnland. (I did not quote you in order not to break any rules. I admire, however, your German which I came across also at other places ;-)). Let's see whether I will some time have the possibility to visit Finland as well. It is certainly a wonderful country, but unlike Denmark, Sweden and Norway I have not yet visited it.

 

Best regards,

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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The situation is even worse in Hungary where the majority of caches cannot even be found on gc.com, but only in the local Hungarian database.

That seems to be true, just compare the Buxley's Hungary map and the geocaching.hu map together, and there are lots of caches missing from the Buxley's. Hungarian caches are numbered, and the highest at this point of time is 799, but probably not all of them are active.

 

Last summer I was visiting the Bükk mountains in Hungary, and on geocaching.hu I found now afterwards several caches that were not on geocaching.com and which would have been very near where I had been. Because there were lots of pictures, I realized that I had walked probably from 20 meters distance from _two_ geocaches without even realizing it! :ph34r: I could just have found a geocache by accident as well.

Edited by eero

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I agree that som people can't speak og write english.

But in this nordic forum It is odd to have postings in Fin Nor Swe Dan

If we continue to use our home language this forum will not reach is full potensial at all.

 

I hope that we can use english as the only language when posting.

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I agree that som people can't speak og write english.

But in this nordic forum It is odd to have postings in Fin Nor Swe Dan

Uhhh.... Nordic languages sound odd in a Nordic forum?

 

If we continue to use our home language this forum will not reach is full potensial at all.
Why? How the fact that some people use their native language here prevent others using this forum? This forum has all its potential right here, right now. Just write here. People will answer if they feel like it.

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I will have to support Mikkel on this matter, by using a small local language such like Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish or Danish for example, will normally just the people understanding the language have the opportunity to understand what is written in the forum!

 

But, since we in Nordic Region are well-educated and speaks english, why don't use a common language that also others understand?

 

Sometimes you say; We write in finnish just because it is a matter for finland only. Yeah, but what about all those people that now aday moves around the world, perhaps moving to Finland to work at Nokia as a consult for a short period of time? Or visitors to the country, that wants to read about caching in the country, but doesn't understand what you are writting about??

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Uhhh.... Nordic languages sound odd in a Nordic forum?

It is nice to have a nordic forum to talk about lokal thing but we need a common language then . So if I started wrinting post in Norwegian I would not have many answer because we are not that many geocachers and you will miss the information i try to share.

 

Just write here. People will answer if they feel like it.

In what language and how can they if the cant understand it ?

 

But, since we in Nordic Region are well-educated and speaks english, why don't use a common language that also others understand?

 

Thats my point ! I miss all the information from the FIN posts . Maybe something there could be of interest.

 

Or visitors to the country, that wants to read about caching in the country, but doesn't understand what you are writting about??

So true

 

My concern is that we will be a separate cell in the forum not so much visited that we could be if we followed a common language.

 

My opinion is still English as the only language in the Nordic forum. :P

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But, since we in Nordic Region are well-educated and speaks english, why don't use a common language that also others understand?
I don't know about their education, but I know a handful of people who have said that they don't speak English, at least well. There are more for sure that I just don't know about.
Yeah, but what about all those people that now aday moves around the world, perhaps moving to Finland to work at Nokia as a consult for a short period of time? Or visitors to the country, that wants to read about caching in the country, but doesn't understand what you are writting about??
What about all those who move e.g. to Sweden to work? Where do they get to read about caching in the country? In the Swedish forum? Nah, it's in Swedish. In this forum? Nah, the Swedish people talk about caching in Sweden in the Swedish forum. Get it? :)

 

For those who want to know what the Finns are talkin about: Most of the topics have some kind of English information about the subject under discussion. Those who are moving to Finland to work can also ask about certain topic they're interested. That happened in practise in the thread about geolitters in Finland: A topic was made and and immediately there was discussion. Then someone who didn't understand the language asked about something, and behold, he was answered. Moreover, another thread was created in English so there could be a Nordic level discussion about the same subject. And indeed, the discussion has been lively and vivid. :P

So if I started wrinting post in Norwegian I would not have many answer because we are not that many geocachers and you will miss the information i try to share.
I'm sure I would do fine even without the information if you chose Norwegian. But, apparently you'd get more answers in the Norwegian forum. You're very lucky to have one. :bad:
In what language and how can they if the cant understand it ?
Whatever you like. If you want Nordic wide answers, use English. That's what people do here. :bad: By reading your posts here, you don't seem to want to talk about much else than what language is appropriate in this forum. :bad: Try some geocaching subject for a change. See if the Finns will reply in Finnish. :bad:
My concern is that we will be a separate cell in the forum not so much visited that we could be if we followed a common language.
There has been English topics in German speaking and Spanish speaking forums. There has been French topics in All Nations forum. There has been posts by non-Nordics in this forum. Very few - if any - people have implied there's a problem with that.

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I feel there are too many anti-Finnish quotes here and I just want to give a few questions to think about for every one of you:

 

- Isn't the forum divided into different parts just because it should among other things give people a chance to write in their own language?

- If everything, everywhere, not just in this forum would be written in English (or other language you know) would you use all the information you get?

- Have you tried to use your own language here? Can you say nobody answered if you ever haven't tried?

- Have you started a thread here (in English)? Has somebody replied in a language you don't know?

- Is this forum for you just a place where you try to find information about some other Nordic country's geocaching "life"? If it is, have you been active in asking questions?

- Do you use some other forum where you can FREELY express your feelings, chat and change opinions in your own language?

- Aren't there already many parts of this forum where English is used commonly? Why should the same be done here?

- What should the people that want to say something in their own language do? Can't they write here?

- If you consider Finnish a very often used language here, could it be because Finns do not use any other forum?

- Doesn't the topic description help you a bit?

- Have you ever tried to ask for an explanation if you didn't understand a topic?

 

AND ONE MORE:

 

- If you consider English the very only language here, will you still be using this Nordics' forum if for example the Finns move their discussions to somewhere else? Would you benefit from that? Who would?

 

Sari

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I will have to support Mikkel on this matter, by using a small local language such like Swedish, Norwegian, Finnish or Danish for example, will normally just the people understanding the language have the opportunity to understand what is written in the forum!

 

But this ignores that there are also English postings here and that English postings receive a response. Since none of the Nordic countries has a really large geocaching community, I feel that there is no need at all to even further separations. This forum is the only place I know of where cachers of all Nordic countries can be found and where I would dare to ask an English question.

 

But, since we in Nordic Region are well-educated and speaks english, why don't use a common language that also others understand?

 

I agree with you that typically the English of Scandinavians is better than the English of the inhabitants of many other countries. What you ignore, however, is that there are quite a lot of people who enjoy discussions in their own language while it is hard work for them to discuss in English. I cannot see any reason to spoil the fun of those who prefer to discuss in their own language (BTW: just for your information, I do not understand a single of the Nordic languages).

Moreover, there are people who do not like to write in a language in which they have not reached a certain level of proficiency. That's certainly a matter of personal taste.

 

Sometimes you say; We write in finnish just because it is a matter for finland only.

 

I guess that in most cases this will be true. But even if not, I cannot understand that this is a big issue. If you really want to understand all postings in this forum, then start to learn the Nordic languages you do not know.

 

Yeah, but what about all those people that now aday moves around the world, perhaps moving to Finland to work at Nokia as a consult for a short period of time?

Or visitors to the country, that wants to read about caching in the country, but doesn't understand what you are writting about??

 

This argument is rather weak in my opinion. What is important and helpful for visitors is that the cache pages and important logs (like nonavailability of a cache) are available in English. If someone has questions about local geoaching issues, he/she can easily post them here in this forum in English and he/she will most probably receive an answer.

 

Would you go that far to require everyone in Sweden to speak English on the street just because one can never be sure whether there is someone around who does not understand Swedish? Did you get my point? I really appreciate the openness of people in Scandinavian countries towards using English if they realize that a tourist/guest is not understanding the local language (that helped me already quite a lot). Although I am traveling a lot, I would not like a world where everyone is having the same native language. It is nice that we have many different languages as long as we try to find a common language to communicate if this is necessary.

 

If someone has an ardent desire to read about geocaching in a certain country, he really should consider starting to learn the language of that country.

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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I would almost say that I speak more english every day at work than Swedish!

 

I meet a lot of foreign people every day, and they are suprised that so many people in Sweden are speaking so good english. It is difficult to find anyone under 50 years of age, that doesn't speak english.

 

And if you look at the ads, commercials, billboards etc, are English a quite popular language if you want to promote a product. Even a Swedish product, made by a swedish company for the swedish market, have a english name and slogan... Why?

I think it has to do with that we are getting more and more international, we are living in a global world. People move to other countries to start working, it is easy to fly to other countries for holiday or weekend. It is quite cheap to fly with airline operators like Ryanair. We also have more international music on the radio, you can also find a lot of american, english etc shows and films on the tv.

In the nordic region are it not standard that we dub movies into the local language, like they do in other european countries. Here in Sweden can you sometimes go and see the Disney-movies in the original language (english) without subtitles.. Why? There is a lot of people living her that doesn't speak Swedish and they must have a opportunity to see the movies also and understand what it is about...

 

Almost every shop that sells book offers a big variety of books in english.

 

English is just one of the few global languages we have in the world. The french is not a global language, despit what the french people think about it. Neither the german language is a global language.

 

I would like to say that the global languages are: English, Spanish, Chinese and Arabic.

 

One really good example of how bad it can go, when a country and its citizens try to only speak the local language and forbid english, is France. They have laws that regulates how much non-french music they allow on the radio. I think it is just a couple of minutes every day, and it should be in the middle of the night. They have also laws forbiding the use of non-french words. Everything must get a french word. The sign "@" have they made an own word for, that no-one else than the french people will understand. Other word that are forbidden in France: Internet, WWW, website, enter, email etc... Imagine that you are talking to a french company and you want to know if they have a website on the internet and if you can send them an email? When they starts to say all the french words for it, no-one else than the french people will understand what they are talking about.

 

This will make them more isolated from the rest of the world than they are right now... And I hear everyday from americans about the conflict between the french and americans.. And I think that the conflict are based on that the people in the US normally only speaks English and the French only speaks french. And if they have learned English in school, they will never hear it on radio, TV etc...

 

The best is to be multi-lingual, be able to speak several languages... And it seems like the most common language in the world are the english language... You can use it almost anywhere in the world... And I assume that every user of geocaching.com can understand English, how can they find the caches in their neighbourhood if they don't understand english???

 

Of course are not everybody good at english, but how many of the users in our countries are writting on the forum!? I think that the most users doesn't even know about the forum and/or care about it. They just want to find information about the caches... And to do that, you must understand some english...

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I don't know how to say this, but I think it's ridiculous to forbid using a local language in a forum that is supposed for locals.

 

This is going a bit off-topic, but I don't find it wrong if the French, for example, want to promote their own language. And besides, the limitations in France to have at least some proportion of locally produced TV shows, can make the TV channels even more international. Because of this, they have lots of both American and French shows, whereas in the Netherlands, for example, I often don't often bother to watch Dutch channels because the Dutch channels offer just American, American, American shows. Subtitling/dubbing is another story, where I agree with you.

 

Normally all of us can express ourselves the best in our mother language, and there are many people who do not understand English very well. If Finnish geocachers, who do not understand English very well, would like to chat about geocaching, what should they do if they should just speak English? How can I write Finnish expressions in English? How is it possible to make fun of the Savo dialect in English? There are actually some Finnish geocachers reading this forum who do not have so good English skills that they could fully express themselves, why should they not be able to chat about geocaching in Finland, while, for example, Americans would understand more? You know, it is more difficult for Finns to learn English than for Swedes, because of the completely different structure of the Finnish and English languages. Swedish has a lot of same kinds of words with English, and more of the same structure, but Finnish doesn't.

 

The Swedish forum is only in Swedish, even you write in Swedish there, so why should the Finns be forced to use English? Should I go to the Swedish forum to tell everybody to use English? I don't understand what they are talking about there, so should they speak English only? Should everybody in the Swedish forum should make effort to write in English, if there happens to be somebody someday that is interested in a small piece of information from there?? If every single Finnish thread would be in English, it would be not so much of use for most outsiders. Did you go geocaching just as normal on Finnish Independence Day, did it affect you?

 

If only English would be used everywhere with geocaching, less people in many countries would be interested about geocaching, and would not start the hobby. For example, many Hungarians do not understand English, so they have "escaped" geocaching.com and they use geocaching.hu, which appears to have about 800 Hungarian caches where Geocaching.com has only about 400. If Finnish is not allowed here, I would support establishing a Finland only forum somewhere, so that _all_ Finnish geocachers would be able to talk about geocaching in Finland! I my opinion, language should not be an obstacle to start geocaching hobby, if one is interested!

 

And I assume that every user of geocaching.com can understand English, how can they find the caches in their neighbourhood if they don't understand english???

 

If one understands well only one's mother tongue, it should be enough in my opinion to find a cache in one's neighbourhood, understanding English should not be necessary. Geocaching is an international sport, but so are many many other sports as well. Football/soccer is an international sport, but should you understand English to join a local team? Or should you learn English to go to a corner shop, since they go to shops everywhere?

 

Happy geocaching for everybody!

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No, the other 'non-geocaching.com' forums are just for each different country and has nothing to do with geocaching.com...

 

But I think that we should use english here where we are a lot of people from different countries... Even if Swedish and Norwegian are very similar, so are there some really huge differences also. If I should write this:

'Åh, vilken rar cache det var.'

then they Norwegians would get it totally wrong, since it in Norway means: "Oh, what a stupid cache it was" while in Sweden it means "Oh, what a nice cache it was".

 

A know that a lot of people in Finland can speak Swedish, and the people in Norway & Denmark also can understand Swedish better than we can understand their languages. Why? I think it has to do with television. They used to watch Swedish television...

 

I don't want to forbid the use of Finnish nor other local languages, but something that might look local can be interesting for the rest of the gang also...

Okay, questions like:

"Where can I find good magnets to use for my new cache?" or "Can I place a cache near this place?" and things like that is very local and don't interest the most people. But if you are talking about things like: "Underwater caches", "Wintercaching", "Have you seen this?"... Then we might be a little more interested in understanding what you are talking about.

 

By the way, if you want to complain about the use of the swedish forum, I'm the right guy to shot, because I have written more than 70-80% of the messages there. :lol: But if you look at the forum is it mainly very local questions, talking about ideas of new events for Sweden, what we had done, who has found most caches, giftlist to the santa Claus (Well, that might interest you Finns since you claim he lives in your country :ph34r:)...

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I don't want to forbid the use of Finnish nor other local languages

Thank you! :ph34r:

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I would almost say that I speak more english every day at work than Swedish!

 

I can easily believe that, but please take into account that this is not true for all geocachers in the Nordic countries. Personally, I hardly write any professional letter in a language other than English and all my publications are in English. Sometimes I even feel more comfortable in setting up my cache descriptions in English and have to think harder for a nice German version. BUT I am well aware of the fact that this is my personal situation. Not everyone has a job where he frequently meets foreigners and is communicating on an international scale. Not all geocachers are working in fields like science, IT, consulting etc. This is in particular true for those countries where geocaching is already a comparatively wide-spread activity (take for example Germany - there you will find cachers of all ages and from all social groups).

 

I think it has to do with that we are getting more and more international, we are living in a global world. People move to other countries to start working, it is easy to fly to other countries for holiday or weekend. It is quite cheap to fly with airline operators like Ryanair. We also have more international music on the radio, you can also find a lot of american, english etc shows and films on the tv.

In the nordic region are it not standard that we dub movies into the local language, like they do in other european countries.

 

Well that's going to become off-topic, but let me comment on it. I do not think that the globalization and the availability of cheap flights do have a major influence on the level of proficiency in English. What is, however, certainly true is that the TV plays an important role. International music on the radio is also available in many other countries, but there are not that many countries where it is rather common that movies, shows etc are broadcasted in foreign languages. When I visited Sweden for the first time, someone told me (with a little bit of irony) that the news are the only program on the Swedish TV which is offered in Swedish.

 

It is certainly no coincidence that the Netherlands and the Scandinavian countries belong to the countries where the chances are pretty high that also people like bus drivers or cleaning staff are able (and willing!) to communicate in English (and often also in German) at least at a simple level. I also observed already quite often that people from Scandinavia and the Netherlands often have a much richer vocabulary as the language is regarded which is used in daily life just because they are used to watch movies in the original version already at a very young age where the ability to learn languages is the best. When I left school, I did know words like disarmament talks, cruise missiles etc, but I did not know for example the word leach (for a dog).

(I would have very much liked to watch English movies, but there was not satellite TV available at that time, and the only chance at that time was to sometimes catch a movie in the Slovenian TV with Slovenian subtitles, but the reception quality was bad.)

 

Here in Sweden can you sometimes go and see the Disney-movies in the original language (english) without subtitles.. Why? There is a lot of people living her that doesn't speak Swedish and they must have a opportunity to see the movies also and understand what it is about...

 

I do not believe that this is the reason. I believe the main reason is money. A dubbed version does often not pay for the small Swedish market and also subtitling of course costs money. Since the Swedish people are used to English movies, they accept English versions in the cinema as well. That would not work in Germany, for example, although there exist definitely quite a number of people living in Germany who do not understand enough German to follow a German movie.

 

I would like to say that the global languages are: English, Spanish, Chinese and Arabic.

 

I do not agree as the last two and specifically Chinese is regarded. There are certainly more people who speak French or German as foreign language than Chines e (which is that hard to learn!). Chinese can be used only in China and even there you have to take care of the different dialects (not everyone there understands Mandarin).

 

Imagine that you are talking to a french company and you want to know if they have a website on the internet and if you can send them an email? When they starts to say all the french words for it, no-one else than the french people will understand what they are talking about.

 

This belongs even less in the Nordic forum, but as there are probably no French people here who could defend themselves, let me comment also on this issue. I did not have contacts with French companies, but with universities and scientists from France and Quebec. I did not have problems with the French words for the terms you are mentioning. If I do not know the French word, I am using the English one - this is not causing any communication problem. I learnt quite a number of French terms (also in mathematics) in this manner and I even enjoyed it. I agree with you that there is the danger of separation in the case when the English terms are not understood, but this seems to be hardly the case. On the other hand, it can be convenient to have French terms ready. When I am teaching in German, I am quite often encountered with troubles that for certain things there is no German term and it is not so nice to mix English terms into German sentences all the time (I am not taking about terms like WWW, email etc - they are used in German by almost everyone, but about for example mathematical terms).

 

And it seems like the most common language in the world are the english language...

 

I agree.

 

You can use it almost anywhere in the world...

 

That depends on the type of people you will come across. When I traveled in China, I realized that the majority of Chinese people on the street does not understand a single word of English. Even in large hotels of less touristically oriented cities, it is hard to find at least one person there being able to communicate in English. (I could tell long stories about that , but that does not belong here.)

 

And I assume that every user of geocaching.com can understand English, how can they find the caches in their neighbourhood if they don't understand english???

 

Your assumption is clearly wrong. I even know some German cachers personally that do not understand English. In many countries there exist geocaching sites in the local language which help people and moreover, one can use a system also if one is not understanding the language of the interface (I had to do that already quite often, e.g. when looking up railway timetables).

 

But you ignore something even more important: Understanding English, in particular being able to read it is not the same as being able to communicate actively. There are many people who can read English, but do not feel comfortable in discussing in English. For those people a forum like this one is an ideal solution. They can have the discussions they want have in their own language, but are still present here and might try to answer a question posed in English. Using this forum should remain fun, and not become work. And there are certainly many people, also in Scandinavia for whom writing in English is no fun because they lack the routine people have that use English frequently in an active way (like you and me).

 

Cezanne

Edited by cezanne

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And I assume that every user of geocaching.com can understand English' date=' how can they find the caches in their neighbourhood if they don't understand english???

[/quote']

 

Your assumption is clearly wrong. I even know some German cachers personally that do not understand English. In many countries there exist geocaching sites in the local language which help people and moreover' date=' one can use a system also if one is not understanding the language of the interface (I had to do that already quite often, e.g. when looking up railway timetables).

 

But you ignore something even more important: Understanding English, in particular being able to read it is not the same as being able to communicate actively. There are many people who can read English, but do not feel comfortable in discussing in English. For those people a forum like this one is an ideal solution. They can have the discussions they want have in their own language, but are still present here and might try to answer a question posed in English. Using this forum should remain fun, and not become work. And there are certainly many people, also in Scandinavia for whom writing in English is no fun because they lack the routine people have that use English frequently in an active way (like you and me).

[/quote']

 

I agree totally with cezanne. There is a lot of users in geocaching.com who don't understand english well or not at all. Some Finns have told in this forum that they write in finnish only because their english is so bad. And if everybody would understand english, why there is then these sites:

 

http://www.geocaching.de

http://www.geocaching-italia.com

http://www.geocaching.nl

http://www.geocaching-hispano.com

 

If you look at them, you'll notice that they are copies of geocaching.com in couple of foreign languages.

Edited by Captain_Morgan&Family

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Even in the Wild West of Utah, USA, where there is virtually no chance of having a Swedish speaker opening any of my caches, I always leave instructions in Swedish...just in case. You never know--maybe Sven, Åsa, or Göran might just pass by. :D

 

I regularly put Swedish phrases in my cache logs and such. No one here seems to mind. I can't believe this discussion thread has grown so long. :D

 

Much as it might seem unfair, English is the language of the Internet...and to a certain extent Geocaching.

 

Even when I lived in Sweden back in the late '80s, I hardly met a person under the age of 30 who couldn't speak English to some extent--most of them pretty well. This was in the age before the Internet; I'll bet it's even more common now. Remember, those 30-year-olds are 50+ now. :(

 

I would encourage you to continue to use both English and the local language of the country. As was earlier mentioned, there are plenty of people who like to cache on vacation--chances are, if they cache, they speak English.

 

Just live and let live. :D

 

Hej på dej!!

 

Eurastus

Edited by Eurastus

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I regularly put Swedish phrases in my cache logs and such.  No one here seems to mind.  I can't believe this discussion thread has grown so long. :(
Well, actually the logging language question is only a side track of this thread. The original topic is about moderator's instructions for appropriate languages to be used in this particular forum. However, I admire your tendency to put Swedish phrases in your US logs. That's something I would probably do too if I lived abroad, and I'd also like to see such in caches owned by me.
Much as it might seem unfair, English is the language of the Internet...and to a certain extent Geocaching.
No objection to that. IMO that's not even unfair. I think no one has been trying to argue against English here. English is and should be used in this forum as well as in loggings. However, it should not be the only acceptable language.

 

Edit: typo

Edited by Divine

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