To Bag Or Not To Bag Others' Bugs

November 22, 2003

We recently had a bug that someone printed out the page for and put the page and bug in a baggie. While we appreciate the effort, and don't particularly care if our bug's in a bag or not, another cacher commented that he didn't like that - that it violated the rules of changing someone else's stuff. We understand that bags help on the wear and tear and mugglage. Does this end justify that means?

If this should be markwelled we apologize.

Thanks

24.7k · November 22, 2003

In the greater scheme of things it's a non issue. I would'nt take a bug out of a bag though, I would replace a worn bag. Would I put a bug in a bag? If I thought it would do the bug some good sure. More than once I've seen a baggie save a log book from becoming mush in a wet cache. If I find a ziplockless log book and I've got a handy bag I'll take care of it and think nothing of it.

Edited November 22, 2003 by Renegade Knight

November 22, 2003

I bagged a Beanie bug I just picked up last weekend. The little guy is all plush and sitting out exposed in a damp cache... heck yeah, I'll bag him. On the other hand, an all-plastic action figure like the Rocky the Flying Squirrel I moved a few months ago, he didn't have a bag and I didn't feel the need to give him one.

Print out the cache page? Probably not, but that may be more a factor of my laziness than any kind of morals on my part. I figure if the owner wanted the page with him, they'd have printed it.

November 22, 2003

If likely to be damaged by moisture, I bag and write goal on bag. If less likely to be damaged by moisture, no bag.

1.4k · November 22, 2003

More people need to bag their bugs and I will if it will aid the bug.

They also need to post goals with the bugs as it will help them on their way. Most people don't carry a laptop with a sat. conn. with them to check for TB's objectives.

November 22, 2003

I HIGHLY suggest you bag it for them.......

BTW I'm going to buy stock in the baggie companies.....

Seriously, why bag them if the water is not going to effect them. I have seen waterproof plastic ducks in baggies. WHY?

NOT every single bug needs a baggie.

November 22, 2003

There is a cacher out here who creates little mission sheets from the bug page for bugs without them, laminates them and adds them to the the bug. It a nice touch along the same lines a bagging them. He just wants to help them along their way toward their goal.

1.7k · November 22, 2003

I have used the following site to create TB info sheets, www.xsng.com/geocachingwa/asp/travelbugsheet1.asp , laminate it and permanently attach it, and to make sure it stays with the bug in case it becomes detached stick it in a ziplock bag. I also email the owner to let them know what I've done. In each case I've received a email back thanking me for what I've done. Anything I can do to help a TB I will do, as they increase the fun. Dave

1k · November 22, 2003

On the other hand, an all-plastic action figure like the Rocky the Flying Squirrel I moved a few months ago, he didn't have a bag and I didn't feel the need to give him one.

Even so. Sometimes, even those all plastic figures could use a baggie, as evidenced by Frank N. Finger.

1k · November 22, 2003

They also need to post goals with the bugs as it will help them on their way. Most people don't carry a laptop with a sat. conn. with them to check for TB's objectives.

I look at it this way. If people don't put the goals on the bugs, then the bug's more than likely going to end up in a different spot that originally intended. But the journey is part of the process as well, imo.

T-bug owners shouldn't get upset if people move a bug 100 miles off course if their goals aren't on the bug, for reasons stated by you. Most people don't carry laptops out in the field and so don't know what the bug's intended goal is.

If I were to encounter a bug while on vacation and it had no goal attached, I would probably take it and then bring it back home with me to log here. I have to assume that no goals attached mean that the bug just wants to wander.

3.5k · November 22, 2003

I always bag those unbagged bugs and make a travelsheet for them (especially if they have a specific goal). I've found way too many bugs that I've been afraid to take home because I didn't know their goal.

So far no one's complained and I can't imagine why anyone would (especially if they've been caching long enough to see some of the naaaasty things weather does to stuff). I guess if they did I'd apologize and remove it....again, that just seems a little bizarre to me.

Bret

1.6k · November 23, 2003

Bags are good ideas, especially if you are going to be heading into a wet climate and have reason to suspect that they are going to get damaged. I see it as an act of kindness for a fellow geocacher to take care of their TB

November 23, 2003

I have found a few TBs but have only bagged those that were fragile or in danger of being damaged if not bagged. I do this out of kindness, not out of intent to alter one's TB. I have a mini-beanie TB and would highly appreciate it if someone else took good care of it.

November 23, 2003

If the owner wanted it bagged, they would have bagged it. Leave it alone. If you feel compelled that for some reason it should have a bag, then email the owner and ask them if they want it bagged. Same with the Bugs Goal. If they wanted it there, they would have put it there. Don't add baggage to the bug just because you think it is best.

A travel bug without a bag and without a Goal sheet will fit in far more caches.

1.4k · November 23, 2003

If the owner wanted it bagged, they would have bagged it. Leave it alone. If you feel compelled that for some reason it should have a bag, then email the owner and ask them if they want it bagged. Same with the Bugs Goal. If they wanted it there, they would have put it there. Don't add baggage to the bug just because you think it is best.

A travel bug without a bag and without a Goal sheet will fit in far more caches.

I don't see a bag or piece of paper being a deal breaker on fitting into a cache. If it is then you are trying to cram a McToy into a 35mm film can without proper lube.

Also sometimes these things get lost.

Also some people get irate that their bug went somewhere it wasn't supposed to. If they had instructions then maybe it would go where it was supposed to go.

3.5k · November 23, 2003

If the owner wanted it bagged, they would have bagged it. Leave it alone. If you feel compelled that for some reason it should have a bag, then email the owner and ask them if they want it bagged. Same with the Bugs Goal. If they wanted it there, they would have put it there. Don't add baggage to the bug just because you think it is best.

A travel bug without a bag and without a Goal sheet will fit in far more caches.

My guess is that a good majority of people don't even know that travel bug goal sheets are available to them. If they're not in the forums on a regular basis (and most aren't) and if they haven't managed to find the few posts that mention them then what are the odds that they would accidentally stumble across them.

If someone wants to get upset about it, that's fine. It's their right. However, I've got an inbox with a few emails from cachers who found out I bagged and carded their bugs and wrote to thank me.

As for fitting into a cache, c'mon....most baggies I use are pretty bendable. Besides, if it's a problem then the next cacher can always be a nice guy and remove the bag and card so it will fit.

Bret

1.3k · November 23, 2003

A travel bug without a bag and without a Goal sheet will fit in far more caches.

The goal tags that I make are printed on 1" * 1.5" of paper, laminated, and cut in the shape of the travel bug tag. They takes up zero space. So far I've made only 1 for a TB other than my own and that was a TB on the original length of chain attached to nothing at all.

November 23, 2003

I have seen, although I don't remember where, someone who sells tags that are the same size as the TB tag, made of thick hard plastic (not laminated paper) with an abridged version of the TB goals on it.

November 23, 2003

well first off as a cacher i have been on vacation b-4 and found bugs that i didnt reesearch and they had no info on them so i was afraid of taking them in the wrong direction so i left them.when i got back home they were wondering t/b's and i would have loved to had them so i think these info papers and baggies are great ideas and i will start doing the same to the ones i find.i think it will do nothing other than halp the bug along also i have seen rubber duckies molded by water that could have been saved with a baggie so there is my 2 cents worth.

1.3k · November 23, 2003

I have seen, although I don't remember where, someone who sells tags that are the same size as the TB tag, made of thick hard plastic (not laminated paper) with an abridged version of the TB goals on it.

http://www.hotsigns.com/sth/store.shtml has the travel bug instruction tags you mention.

http://www.texasgeocaching.com/cache_docs.asp has pdf and word documents as well if you want inspiration.

http://www.xsnrg.com/geocachingwa/asp/travelbugsheet1.asp has a travel bug sheet builder.

1.2k · November 23, 2003

My PDX Travel Bug Lounge features fillable "Travel Bug Protection Kit" cards and ziplocks so that folks can alert others where the bugs are destined.

I did that with my own cache after going thru the annoyance of seeing lots of bugs in the LA Airport travel bug cache (Grand Central Station) that I had NO idea where they were going - so some bugs missed out on their chance to fly north with me.

Now I have these cool cards as signature items, and I put them in ziplocks and leave them in various travel bug hotels. I always replenish my own cache when the stock gets low. I have had TB owners thank me with "I wish I thought of that!"

It's fun. I think it helps the TBs out.

December 3, 2003

Hm, the concensus seems to be, baggers' hearts are in the right place. I'm not sure it's a bad thing. We aren't in a bad weather place, except for the heat, not a lot of winter weather in the DFW area which I'm sure would cause more bugs to start out in bags. I'd have to say, it's OK to bag others' bags, but it would be nice to notify the owner of it, in case they have a special reason for not bagging it. Thanks everyone for the comments!

December 9, 2003

I wish that if someone finds our The Sea Dog TB they would put him in a bag. We didn't think of it and now he's out there in the elements. I'd like to think that one day we'll meet up with him again and it would be nice if there were still something to collect!

Edited December 9, 2003 by SoMDCacherz

December 10, 2003

I am one of those guys that likes to create little laminated tags for each TB that I scoop up that doesn't have one. I am not sure how many I have done. If I find a bagged TB that has a sheet with it then I will create a laminated tag and I will get rid of the sheet. If I get a TB that is in a bag I will usually replace the bag before sending the TB along. If I think the TB needs a bag then I will add one. But I agree that not all TBs need bags. I have not emailed any owners to tell them that I have tagged the bugs.

I feel that all TBs leave my possession in better shape then we they came into it.

December 10, 2003

I am one of the guys that takes the lamenated tags OFF of my bugs when others take upon themselves to create them. If I wanted a "goal" tag on my bug, I would have put one there. Same goes for bags, some of my bugs I bag and some I do not. After about 4 moves the bags is torn anyway so it seems to serve very little purpose. As far as the tags, I dislike when someone treats one of my bugs this way. Last night I removed a tag form my bug that was larger than the bug itself, not very pleasing to the eye. Try to remember that these bugs are other peoples property and at least ask before you tag and bag em...

December 10, 2003

The tags I put on are less then 2 inches wide and tall. I am a graphic artist and I do them to look very professional. So from now on I will contact the owner BEFORE I tag a bug. No offense has ever been intended and I apologize if I have offended. WARNING: I just released four more bugs that I tagged (only bagged two of them). I guess I better apologize some more.

December 10, 2003

Do not worry. I know you meant no offense and I took none. I am most likely in the minority on my view about this. I just feel that ANY change to a bug, whether it is a bag or a tag, should be run by the bug owner first. On the other hand if the bug is bagged and the bag is torn by all means replace it. Likewise if there is a folder paper "tag" with the bug and you have the means and desire to create a lamenated version, by all means do so.

December 10, 2003

Some time back I started a thread about construction materials related to durability, partly because of the bagging issue. Zip bags don't hold up well in caches and the situation is worse with cachers carrying them in backpacks, etc. My bugs are made out of materials that should hold up, more or less, outdoors. That's one reason I don't send plush toys.

I also put instruction tags on my bugs and will do others if it's okay with the owner. Gargoyle has nice tags and there are other examples out there. The goal info on mine is non-specific so it's changeable through the web page. I once found one of mine that someone had helpfully added a tag to with it's current goal. The problem is, that bug has a changing goal. The goals are going to be updated on the bug's page as it travels.

Taking pictures of bugs and posting them is also a nice addition because some people release their bugs without a picture as part of the description.

December 11, 2003

Have to agree with Bazzle about asking for permission. It seems more than a little paternalistic to change someone else's bug. Not being able to imagine why someone didn't include a goal tag or a baggie doesn't mean that there wasn't a reason.

If someone is going to go to the trouble to make a tag for someone else's bug, it wouldn't seem like it would be much of a burden to ask the bug owner if one would be appreciated.

I have added a laminated tag to a travel bug, but only because the one already attached was in such poor shape that it was illegible, and only after emailing the owner and informing them of the situation.

December 11, 2003

Grasshopper, there is a cycle of life for baggies. When the unbagged traveller is ziplocked, it continues along it's journey, hermetically safe for a few caches. But after a while, the seal fouls and holes appear in the polyethylene. Soon, the traveller finds nature again. At some point, the baggie seam rips, and the traveller walks out into the sunshine.

Then it's time for a new bag!

December 11, 2003

I personally always check out the page for bugs in a cache before I actually go to the cache. This way I know their goals before I see them and know which ones I will grab. If I get there and find a bug that was not listed that morning (or the night before) when I reviewed the cache page, and the owner has not included a goal tag, I usually just make a note of its number and do not atcually take the bug. Then when I return home to log the cache, I grab the bug first, then when I log the cache I drop the bug right back in it. This way I get the "found" for the bug and I do not move a bug who's goal I was unaware of. Sure this may mean that a few bugs I maybe could have helped have to wait for the next cacher, but I hunt caches not bugs specifically, so that is how the web is woven. This practice also allows a bug onwer to know that the bug is still alive and well even if it has not moved. If I am on vacation and do not have access to a computer for logging for an extended period (VERY rare), I almost never pick up bugs. I feel that if I cannot log a bug out of a cache on the day I find it, I have no business taking the bug. This only leads to notes about missing bugs and makes the owner feel that their bug has been lost, not very considerate IMHO.

December 13, 2003

My Lighthouse Travel Bear TBs start off with a goal sheet and in a bag. If either get lost or need replacing along the way, I would very much appreciate them being replaced. When I release a TB, I'm sharing it with all the other geocachers around the world. If someone wants to add a laminated tag, some mini-sunglasses, bracelets, whatever, that just adds to the fun! Some people even seem to get sentimentally attached to my bears and keep ''forgetting'' to send them on their way. (Hi, JamieZ! Howya doin'? :huh: )

December 13, 2003

A travel bug without a bag and without a Goal sheet will fit in far more caches.

The goal tags that I make are printed on 1" * 1.5" of paper, laminated, and cut in the shape of the travel bug tag. They takes up zero space. So far I've made only 1 for a TB other than my own and that was a TB on the original length of chain attached to nothing at all.

That would be great if that is all it was. I recently picked up a bug that I had started out for someone. It was a single key and dog tag when I first had it. I pulled it out of another cache a couple months later and it was in a large freezer bag with 4 full sheets of paper folded up with it.

Tell me how that is going to fit inside a small container. The key would practically fit anywhere.

Leave them alone unless you ask. That is the most courteous thing you could do.

December 13, 2003

Do not worry. I know you meant no offense and I took none. I am most likely in the minority on my view about this. I just feel that ANY change to a bug, whether it is a bag or a tag, should be run by the bug owner first. On the other hand if the bug is bagged and the bag is torn by all means replace it. Likewise if there is a folder paper "tag" with the bug and you have the means and desire to create a lamenated version, by all means do so.

I ask a bug owner before i do anything to the bug. I once asked one if they wanted me to try to glue a piece back on their travel bug that had fallen off. They didn't think it would look good and rather would leave the piece off. So I prevented a 'good deed' from upsetting the owner.

Bags and tags are nice, but always Ask first.

December 14, 2003

This is a great topic because it has made me realize that even though my intentions are truly noble... the best advice is to contact the owner before making any change to a bug. I have sent out about eight or nine bugs with new laminated goal tags but from now on I will ask first. I sent out my first "do you mind if I..." email last night and I am still waiting to hear. It doesn't take much effort to ask and this way people don't have to post messages about why others are tampering with the bugs.

Happy Numbers Everyone and Happy Holidays from Gargoyle and his family! :lol:

December 15, 2003

Hey, this sparks an idea! If it has already been thought of, let us know.

What about taking the concept of a Travel Bug hotel and making a "Travel Bug Hospital?" or "Bug Doctor" or "Bug Bagger" caches, like a cache where something happens besides just storage. People who like to laminate/tag/bag/fix bugs set one out, like a kind of good trap, and wet/broken/unbagged/untagged bugs come to it. Bug gets fixed/tagged/bagged via logs so we can all see what is happening, and then taken by the owner out to other caches, or put back in the hospital for someone else. Kind of like those teeth-cleaning stations for fish in the ocean.

Maybe bugs could be logged as in need of help, perhaps with a searchable attribute so you could query on bugs that needed to visit a hospital, you could see where sick bugs were, etc. If a bug was found in an area with no hospital, it could be carried to a cache in an area that overlaps another cacher's area that had a hospital in it. The cacher finding a bug in bad shape but having no access to a hospital would log the bug as in need of help, and carry it in the direction of the hospital, MARKWELL ANYONE? ANYONE? BUEHLER?

December 16, 2003

I don't think I would modify the bug itself, but I think that placing it in a zip-lock bag with a one-page internet print-out of its goals (without all the logs) is not much different than placing the TB in the actual cache container. It still gets stuck in a container with other things the owner didn’t send with it. In fact, it then ends up in a backpack with even more things. Maybe it is like a teenager being turned loose to the world. You never know how their appearance will change or what they will accumulate on their journey through life, but they are still your children and you still love them despite the caches they have stayed in or the TB’s and geocachers they have hung out with.

The only time I have ever modified a bug was when a traveling rubberstamp was in a cache, but did not have an inkpad. I wouldn't have thought much of it except that the bug's goals were to stamp the logbooks of the caches it visited. It's internet printout even showed it with an inkpad. I emailed the owner first, and they were overjoyed that I offered to add an inkpad.

I think that when an owner releases a bug, it is expected that it will no longer be under their control and is subject to the whims of fellow geocachers. We will not all share the same philosophies on how they should be treated, but I think we would all agree on the no-modification part.

I released a plush bear that was wearing a shirt that brought awareness to diabetes. One finder uploaded pictures of the bear receiving an insulin shot in its forehead and butt. While I don't think this is the technically accurate way to administer insulin, I don't have diabetes and this geocacher did. It may have been his way of letting the rest of us know that diabetes involves pain. Heck, it didn't hurt the bear, so I don't care. Maybe I'm just a bad TB parent.

I have always added the bag to protect the printout of the goals despite whether the bug was made of plastic of cloth. I think that if the majority of cachers try to help the bugs along in this way then TB owners opposed to the practice should indicate (on the TB's internet page) that they don't want their bug bagged.

I think I will start emailing the TB owners ahead of time, though. After all, the majority used to think the earth was the center of the universe and anyone disagreed was dealt with accordingly. Sorry for the long post.

To Bag Or Not To Bag Others' Bugs

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