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"members only" caches rant

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

i type with one finger THEREFORE USING THE CAPS A LOT OR SHIFTING TAKE TOO LONG


 

You're absolutely sure that's not your big toe?

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

you dont have too be rude


 

your write eye appollojize aye shoodnt bee rood

 

welcome to YOU'RE wurld!!!

-----------------------------------------------

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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Irish:

 

3. My favorite argument: Voluntary payments? What a joke. Seriously, before I went to charter memberships I had a paypal link at the bottom of every page asking for support. I received a few, but not enough to pay for any of the upkeep.

 

Charter members helped support the new database server that non-charter members like yourself are cheerfully using right now to log and find geocaches.

 

It ain't cheap folks.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location


 

Jeremy: I respect what you're trying to do but there are many suspicions that are going around. It would be helpful if you were to clear these up.

 

On the one hand you state that you need support to pay for the new server. But you also have stated in other posts that you're in this for business - that means to make money. either from geocaching.com or Groundspeak the parent organization.

 

Your refusal to reveal your costs for the server vs. income from "contributions", membership, site advertising, etc continues to stir the controversy because no one really knows what the financial situation is for a site that is not making money. Only you can clear that up.

 

Additionally, if you are developing a business to make a profit either from geocaching.com directly or through Groundspeak by developing, well what?, than "contributions" are not contributions but are helping you finance a business. You cannot call money so received as contributions. They are going towards developing a business and you should treat them as seed money for developement cosyts, in effect an investment by geocachers which you should return something. Companies trying to grow issue stock.

 

The point is that by not clarifying exactly what you are doing and keeping your financing secret at the same time calling "contributions" donation only for servers will continue to keep the controversy going and creating a lot of ill will towards you whether deserved or not.

 

If this is a "labor of love" - great. reveal the finances. If it's a business, stop with the donations verbiage and either tell people they are paying for a service or issue stock for their investment in your business.

 

One way or the other. Just make it totally clear what you are doing.

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by BassoonPilot:

quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

you dont have too be rude


 

your write eye appollojize aye shoodnt bee rood

 

welcome to YOU'RE wurld!!!

-----------------------------------------------


 

Woo-hoo! Let the cross-country flame war begin!

 

Honestly, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about. I paid my dues a couple of weeks ago, checked the cache list in my area and saw exactly zero MOC's. New caches are popping up daily, and it doesn't seem as though 90% of all new caches are MOC's so the sport is in peril.

 

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know how many MOC's there actually are? I've never actually seen one, so I have no idea...

 

icon_wigogeocaching.gif chezpic.gif

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WOW!!! I log off for a day and .......

I guess i knew that my post might set off some responses (read line 1) but...

First I'd like to say a few things....

1) All I have said is my own personal OPINION. We are allowed to express those here in america - you can have yours, I am entilted to mine (insert someone humming glory, glory halleluah (sp) here), but just because mine differs form yours DON'T (please ) call me a whiner I am just pointing out a simple fact - to someone new to geocaching, e.g. ME, moc's SUCK, are selfish, rude crude and socially unattractive. They (opinion again) really seem to go against the grain of leaving something neat, somewere neat for anyone to find. That being said, I do have a lot of respect for many of the people here even though thay may be different, most seem nice.

2) MY parents did, as a matter of fact, say no to me, and frequently at that. Unfortunatly, I am intelligent enough to understand that rules can be changed so while I do accept the fact that mocs do exist, I can still (and will... derrrr) try to change the way others look at them.

3) wow, just ... wow! it really has been neat to see how passionate about this everyone who replied has been wether they were super friendly and offered to assist a complete strANGER (GEOGADGETS) or just someone who has to be more hardcore than anyone else (wayne). but thank you all and I hope i haven't made anyone too mad

ffdave

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

Jeremy: I respect what you're trying to do but there are many suspicions that are going around. It would be helpful if you were to clear these up.


 

Do you visit your local cable or satellite company and ask to see their profit and loss statements? I seriously doubt it, but how often to you complain when they up the prices for the - HELLO! - service they provide? Everytime you write that check, I'll bet.

 

Why is it so many of you begrudge that Geocaching becomes a business? I have read statements on how "pay for play" will ruin this site, this hobby, etc. But you know what will ruin this site faster?

 

1. If Jeremy had had to start limiting the size of logs on cache finds, or the size of cache descriptions when they are placed, or images being used on cache pages or those lame-a$$ed backgrounds that make me motion sick because somebody learned a new trick and thinks they are now a website/HTML programmer... all to keep the size of files down because the cost of server space is expensive.

 

2. Bandwidth is expensive. Hosting a site with this much traffic COSTS MONEY!

 

3. The daily upkeep of adding and approving new caches has to be done by somebody... paying a programmer COST MONEY!

 

There are other aspects of this website and its continual usage that require fundage, but I am not in the mood to add the tally right now. What would be the point?

 

I'll bet those same people who biatch about the membership fee pay more each week for cigarettes and beer. Heck, taking my kids and S.O. to dinner costs more than $30, but then I won't eat McDonalds... I just go there for the toys to place in caches.

 

My main point is: What difference does it make if this is a profit-making enterprise or not? Nothing truly enjoyable in life is free. I don't care what your mamma told you.

 

Real life is dirty, messy and expensive and things never turn out exactly the way you wish it would - otherwise, it wouldn't be much of a life.

 

This topic has been beat-up, knocked-down, drug-out and should have been left for dead. Those people who think MOC's are there to force them to pay can find another hobby, go look for non-MOC's or stop biatching... but their ignorance in regard to the truth of this situation isn't going to be altered by debating it here, again and again. So, why am I typing about it?

 

Because you're reading it, that's why!

 

And James? Since you have so much time on your hands that you respond (rudely for the most part) on every thread... take some of that time and learn to type properly. People may take you seriously then... instead of thinking that you live in a very small and narrow view of your world. And just so you know? Your world - according to the links you post - must be a very small one, indeed.

 

My opinion and I'm sticking to it. I'd tell you to your face, too.

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

It's not whether or not you pick your nose that matters, but where you put the booger...

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Thanks for your thoughts. But my question was addressed to Jeremy.

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

welcome to MY world!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CacheAcrossAmerica

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

http://www.cachunuts.com

 

Gee Chuck, I'm a Charter Member (Notice the spiffy title, that makes fun of titles) and guess what? I don't pay to play, no siree Jim Bob. I pay to use this web site. Because I like this website I've chosen to suport it with my hard earned dollars.

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

there desighned as a way for jeremy among others to make money off of us. icon_rolleyes.gif

 

welcome to MY world!!!

------------------------------------------------------------

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CacheAcrossAmerica

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest_cache.asp?u=KD7MXI

http://www.cachunuts.com

 

Gee Chuck, I'm a Charter Member (Notice the spiffy title, that makes fun of titles) and guess what? I don't pay to play, no siree Jim Bob. I pay to use this web site. Because I like this website I've chosen to suport it with my hard earned dollars.

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

Thanks for your thoughts. But my question was addressed to Jeremy.

 

Alan


 

That would be a valid point if and only if you contacted Jeremy's directly instead of in this forum, for all forum readers to review and comment on. Because you chose this format, it's open season.

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I haven't joined yet but I am planning on it soon, as well as my wife. We will both be paying as we each have our own accounts. As for James I think you need to go find some more caches, and spend a lot less time looking (and rudely replying) to these threads. icon_eek.gif

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I haven't joined yet but I am planning on it soon, as well as my wife. We will both be paying as we each have our own accounts. As for James I think you need to go find some more caches, and spend a lot less time looking (and rudely replying) to these threads. icon_eek.gif

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Money spent on cable TV this year: $0

Money spent on cigarettes this year: $0

Money spent on beer this year: $0

Money spent on coffee this year: $0

Money spent at the movie theaters this year: $7.50

 

Is it just me or has the performance of the database been really poor this week? Maybe it's all those avatar images loading or something.

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quote:
Originally posted by kablooey:

Money spent on cable TV this year: $0

Money spent on cigarettes this year: $0

Money spent on beer this year: $0

Money spent on coffee this year: $0

Money spent at the movie theaters this year: $7.50

 

Is it just me or has the performance of the database been really poor this week? Maybe it's all those avatar images loading or something.


 

And even though you regularly comment on the membership/non-membership THING, and MOC's, you rarely if ever get "rabid" about it.

 

Hmmm... you don't have a lot of expenses, and you live and work (I assume) near the Bay Area... could this mean you

 

a.) live in a nice apartment where cable or satellite is included in your rent;

 

b.) live with your Mom;

 

c.) found a way to tap into the cable from the pole;

 

d.) work so hard that you have little or no time (or interest) in watching meaningless, brain-sucking television...

 

You don't smoke, don't drink (beer) or coffee and you have a hard time finding a DATE? A guy with a disposable income like yours would be a hot ticket, I'd think. And since you and I have chatted in the GEO-chat room, you know I'm yanking your chain, I hope.

 

I'd hope that my point is: You get what you pay for, nothing in life is truly free (no matter how it starts) people who cannot possibly scrap up $30 for a years subscription (assuming they want to) should evaluate how and where their money goes.

 

"But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller, 400 lb. Gorilla

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

It's not whether or not you pick your nose that matters, but where you put the booger...

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quote:
Originally posted by kablooey:

Money spent on cable TV this year: $0

Money spent on cigarettes this year: $0

Money spent on beer this year: $0

Money spent on coffee this year: $0

Money spent at the movie theaters this year: $7.50

 

Is it just me or has the performance of the database been really poor this week? Maybe it's all those avatar images loading or something.


 

Lemmee guess ... you also don't lay out the dough for a high speed connection ...

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This has been over discussed. I'm tempted to close this discussion but cries of "censorship!" would pop up everywhere.

 

If you intend to ask me questions in an open forum, it makes perfect sense to have others respond. Email me directly if you want me to answer directly, but from past experience I know that they will eventually find themselves back in the forums. So here is better than anywhere else.

 

1. Geocaching.com is not the business. Groundspeak is. Right now all subscriptions are covering Geocaching.com servers and equipment, with the understanding for subscribers that this is a Groundspeak charter membership. Groundspeak will eventually fund the Geocaching site, and those who help support Geocaching.com will have the additional benefit of having subscriptions to all Groundspeak services. In business there is competition and I'd rather folks not know about these new services, so I apologize for the secrecy.

 

My theory (based on some financial facts) is that Geocaching in itself will not be able to fund itself, so I'm looking at alternative ways to keep it going. Creating this new service with new features will do that.

 

2. You have no right at all to ask me how little or how much money we make or need. Groundspeak is a private company and like my own finances, we like to keep private. If we provide the services you believe are worth paying for a charter membership, feel free to subscribe. If you don't, don't subscribe. It is really as cut and dry as that.

 

3. Like most companies out there we do not divulge everything we are doing so the competition doesn't get an upper hand. As a result I cannot discuss many of the things we are working on.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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quote:
Originally posted by Byron & Anne:

I'll simplify my point.

 

1. I am a dues paying member.

2. I really want Jeremy and groudspeak to make a decent profit. That's the only way we can keep this thing going.

3. I think that MOCs are a negative, no matter how few there are. They send the wrong message to potential members.

4. There are other and better ways to intice people to become members. We are a diverse and creative community and can come up with pretty good ideas to help intice new members and improve groundspeaks income.

 

Byron


 

Perfectly said. Ditto for me. If members wanted MOC's so badly why are there so few of them now? It amazes me that this dumb experiment, that has been hardly utilized, and has caused so much ill will, hasn't been canned. Jeremy, why can't you just say "tried it, hardly anyone used it, many detested it. It's now being shelved. We're moving on to something else."

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

 

Your refusal to reveal your costs for the server vs. income from "contributions", membership, site advertising, etc continues to stir the controversy

 

...will continue to keep the controversy going...

 

Gee, Alan, I don't think there IS any controversy here.

 

Jeremy, has a great idea and has worked dadgum hard on it. I hope he makes millions. If/when you have a good idea, I sincerely hope that you also make millions from it.

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Call it what you will ... I'd shut this ridiculous babble down. Even after Jeremy explains it ... it just keeps going. Talk about something sending the wrong message!

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

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If we can't just let this pitiful ("adj. 1. Inspiring or deserving pity.") thread die, perhaps we can at least make it into something more useful? So...

 

What did everybody think about [rot13]frrvat Lbqn svtug[/rot13] in Star Wars: Episode II -- Attack of the Clones? I for one thought it was [rot13]rknpgyl ubj Lbqn sbhtug va zl vzntvangvba[/rot13].

A|B|C|D|E|F|G|H|I|J|K|L|M-------------------------N|O|P|Q|R|S|T|U|V|W|X|Y|Z

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The ability to filter out individuals and their posts to the forums. Hey Jeremy, that might bring in a few extra bucks! I would kick in $3 bucks a month to be able to apply a spam filter. Seriously, I hope you make a boatload of money with Groundspeak, and it can pay for the Geocaching site. I am happy to pay for the Charter Membership, and have hats, stickers, keychains, and travel bugs that buddies and I have purchased.

I don't see the problem, some people have a rather narrow perspective of life, and their definition of a problem is kind of amusing.

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

i agree WHY PICK ON ME AND OTHER USERS VIEWS icon_smile.gif


Two words? cAPS lOCK icon_razz.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by james f weisbeck kd7mxi terra utah:

i agree WHY PICK ON ME AND OTHER USERS VIEWS icon_smile.gif


Two words? cAPS lOCK icon_razz.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by JoeyBob:

The ability to filter out individuals and their posts to the forums. Hey Jeremy, that might bring in a few extra bucks! ...


 

Hey, now there's a truly useful feature ...

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quote:
Originally posted by JoeyBob:

Seriously, I hope you make a boatload of money with Groundspeak, and it can pay for the Geocaching site. I am happy to pay for the Charter Membership, and have hats, stickers, keychains, and travel bugs that buddies and I have purchased.

I don't see the problem, some people have a rather narrow perspective of life, and their definition of a problem is kind of amusing.


 

quote:
Originally posted by Hawkeye:Call it what you will ... I'd shut this ridiculous babble down. Even after Jeremy explains it ... it just keeps going. Talk about something sending the wrong message!


 

Why is it that so many of the Jeremy Fan Club presume that opposition to MOC's = opposition to Groundspeak earning some well earned bucks? I have seen no serious posts on this forum in which anyone was blatantly opposed to this site being operated as a business - most of the the posts opposing MOC's acknowledge and support the fact that you can't get something good for nothing. As for shutting the "babble" down, any new features, such as MOC's should be discussed and evaluated on an ongoing basis - isn't that what this forum is supposed to be for?

 

And by the way, some people are more articulate than others and can spell and type without difficulty. Attacking and denigrating someone on that level is quite pathetic. (I have a word for people who do that: ACK! - Arrogant Condescending Know-it-alls!). I understand that James has quite a different perspective than many of us but at least his posts are short and to the point. (sorry I can't say the same about mine!).

 

You may not agree with what I say, but I will defend, to your death, my right to say it!

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Good idea on the spam filter. It's something I'll need to request Infopop to do with their forums.

 

Here's some netiquette:

 

1. Don't use caps lock on your posts. It looks like YOU ARE YELLING.

 

2. Don't post if your signature is larger than your response. It's confusing and annoying.

 

Do a search on netiquette online if you're confused. There are planty of places to read about the proper way of posting on the internet.

 

IMHO - is never humble.

 

And picking on speling is unnecessary. as long as the speling is understud, and a point can come akross, there is no kneed to pick on a user for spelling mistakes. But some spelling mistakes come out as rushed, making you look careless. Keep in mind that a post is pretty much permanent when you post it on the web.

 

Since this is totally off topic, I'll stop now.

 

Jeremy

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

2. Don't post if your signature is larger than your response. It's confusing and annoying.

 

Yep, um, I'm guilty of that at times. At other times my posts run the complete opposite direction and people begin yawning before I'm finished with my rant. I hate that. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Since this is totally off topic, I'll stop now.

 

This is totally OT too, but I like the photo posted this time better than the first one... It is much clearer. And handsome... has anyone ever told you that you are a very handsome man?

 

AHEM! Sorry...

 

And this is OT as well. I have noticed, though no one else has commented, that the cookies are working again. Thank You. Really. I happen to know how difficult cookies can be to code and how easily their nature is to corrupt. Again, Thank You Jeremy. For all of your hard work. And at the risk (again) of being boring...

 

(spoken in a very John Cleese accent) Has anyone told you lately that you are a very handsome man?

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

It's not whether or not you pick your nose that matters, but where you put the booger...

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Originally posted by Jeremy (Admin):

2. Don't post if your signature is larger than your response. It's confusing and annoying.

 

Yep, um, I'm guilty of that at times. At other times my posts run the complete opposite direction and people begin yawning before I'm finished with my rant. I hate that. icon_biggrin.gif

 

Since this is totally off topic, I'll stop now.

 

This is totally OT too, but I like the photo posted this time better than the first one... It is much clearer. And handsome... has anyone ever told you that you are a very handsome man?

 

AHEM! Sorry...

 

And this is OT as well. I have noticed, though no one else has commented, that the cookies are working again. Thank You. Really. I happen to know how difficult cookies can be to code and how easily their nature is to corrupt. Again, Thank You Jeremy. For all of your hard work. And at the risk (again) of being boring...

 

(spoken in a very John Cleese accent) Has anyone told you lately that you are a very handsome man?

----------

Lori aka: RedwoodRed

KF6VFI

"I don't get lost, I investigate alternative destinations."

GeoGadgets Team Website

Comics, Video Games and Movie Fansite

 

It's not whether or not you pick your nose that matters, but where you put the booger...

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quote:
Originally posted by seneca:....

Why is it that so many of the Jeremy Fan Club presume that opposition to MOC's = opposition to Groundspeak earning some well earned bucks? I have seen no serious posts on this forum in which anyone was blatantly opposed to this site being operated as a business - most of the the posts opposing MOC's acknowledge and support the fact that you can't get something good for nothing. As for shutting the "babble" down, any new features, such as MOC's should be discussed and evaluated on an ongoing basis - isn't that what this forum is supposed to be for?

...


 

Well can't say I'm a member of the Jeremy Fan club as much as a fan club of this sport ... but honestly ... I think he does a hell of a job. I personally wouldn't have the will power to remain as calm as he appears to have on some of the goofy rants I've seen. But the issue of MOC's is just getting a bit old. No ... not everyone that hates MOC's is opposed to the site making money ... although several have stated that fact along with wanting a private company to disclose their books to their customers ... THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE LIVING IN THE REAL WORLD. MOC's were going to start the decline of the sport and close out the non paying participants ... NEITHER has happened ... in fact the growth continues and MOC's are the exception ... not the rule.

 

Yes, the forums are the place to hash out issues ... but this one is just plain silly and a waste of time. If you don't like them ... ignore them. Just like if you don't like virtual or locationless caches ... ignore them. Just like in the real world ... if there is no demand ... they will go away ... and vice versa. Remember new formula Coca Cola? Jeremy provided a service ... because several cachers ASKED FOR IT. They had issues of caches being plundered. WOW ... A COMPANY ACTUALLY LISTENS TO IT'S CUSTOMERS ... wouldn't that be a great thing to catch on.

 

Let's move on to more pressing issues ... like how to filter out caches in your area you are not interested in (i.e., locationless) ... How to filter recent logs for caches in your area .... and thousand more "I wannas". My new biggest issue is how to get more cache hunting time!

 

SUMMARY: It's babble when it just keeps reappearing even when the arguments are proven not to be true. That was what I was saying ... and I'd love to see this thread die ... at least I won't be bumping it to the top again ... it's getting boring.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------

Co-founder of the "NC/VA GEO-HOG ASSOCIATION"

... when you absolutely have to find it first!

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Sorry if I was not clear, and rereading my post illustrates that. My comment about narrow perspectives comes from my job- in an intensive care unit, working with kids. Many people don't get the chance to enjoy life, much less hobbies like we all have. I look at geocaching as a way to enjoy life and celebrate my good health, as something totally different from the stress, heartbreak, and devastation of young lives that I deal with each day. That is why the MOC topic is lacking in relevance to me.

Off the soapbox, sorry for the long winded post.

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Jeremy: I appreciate your answering in the forum. Since these issues are not mine alone but have bounced around for so long, your direct answers publicly would go a long way in removing a lot of the controversy and questions. What would be the point in responding only to me when your answers effect others as well? While other posters certainly can and should contribute responses, they’re basically giving their opinions as to the setup of your organization and what your intentions are, as I would be. Neither they nor I know what’s really going on. Only your responses, as CEO of Groudspeak and geocaching.com would have a basis of fact and not conjecture.

 

My request was never for you to reveal the finances of Groudspeak, Inc. but of geocaching.com. It was based on a belief that it would be improper for you to accept “donations” for the purposes of upgrading geocaching.com servers without a full disclosure of how and where the money is spent. You would expect the pastor collecting donations for the improvement of the steeple to reveal the amount of contributions and the contracting costs associated with the work. However, you have acknowledged that these are not donations but are in fact subscription fees for special services of geocaching.com that is a business under the banner of Groudspeak, Inc. In fact you pointed out the Charter Membership is actually in Groudspeak, Inc. not geocaching.com web site. I don’t think that was clear to most people. There’s been this constant internecine warfare and consistent degradation and demeaning of Non-Charter members from some Charter Members as if these fees were donations to geocaching.com and if you didn’t donate you were somehow a cretin. Comments from some Charter Members would give the appearance that they believed that only people who pay are members or at a minimum created a two-tier system. Non payers are not really members but are just “riff-raff. This has hurt a lot of people’s feeling including my own. I chose not to pay fees because I am not interested in “extra” services nor was I interested in investing to help you grow Groudspeak. Your new offer to receive “free” subscriptions to future Groudspeak (non-geocaching,com) services also doesn’t interest me. While I would have considered a “donation” to geocaching.com to assist the site if the money was used for a non-profit purpose there alone, since you have acknowledged that is not the case, I and many others feel no obligation to support your future business plans in Groudspeak.

 

While this nature of fees and the business structure is clear to you, it apparently hasn’t been to many Charter Members. A lot of ill will has been perpetuated because of this misunderstanding. Whether people invest in Groudspeak or not should not be the basis of the camaraderie that should exist in the community of geocachers. I believe that you have the same interest. Hopefully this discussion will put this issue to bed.

 

Alan

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quote:
Originally posted by Hawk-eye:

Yes, the forums are the place to hash out issues ... but this one is just plain silly and a waste of time.


In your humble opinion? Heaven forbid anyone else think otherwise.

quote:
If you don't like them ... ignore them.

If you find this thread so irritating, perhaps it's best to follow your own advice!

Ignore it!

 

sun_smiley.gif

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan2:

A lot of ill will has been perpetuated because of this misunderstanding.

 

Alan


 

Let's get to the heart of the matter.

 

I think the vast majority doesn't care about any of this and considers it pretty trivial. From my perception it seems that an extremely vocal minority (perhaps you excluded) feel jealous about my personal success, for whatever reason of their own. Others in the past have hinted to this "sour grapes" mentality and I have to agree with them.

 

Groundspeak is not and has never been (and listed as such), a non profit agency. All subscriptions currently do, in fact, currently go to fund Geocaching.com. I don't believe anywhere are we contradicting these facts. When these facts do change we'll let you know, just as we always do.

 

If there's any ill-will perceived, I don't understand why. Each person has their own right to decide whether to pay to support the web site. Member only caches were designed as a tool for geocachers to use if they like. Pretty cut and dry.

 

Someone in the forums recommended reading "Atlas Shrugged" - I'm halfway through and it's a good read.

 

Our goal is to create an engaging experience online and to offer the tools people can use to go out and geocache, as well as try to put a good face on geocaching. I don't think we've strayed from this.

 

This has gone off the original topic of member only caches. I'm closing this thread.

 

Jeremy Irish

Groundspeak - The Language of Location

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