Have cache, will travel ?

[Guest mrgigabyte]

I am planning on searching for a cache (GC62E) the the original cacher calls a "Traveling Cache". The idea is to pick it up and take it with you, then to hide it in a new location. The original cacher wants to see how far the cache will travel over time. The problem with this is that the new location is logged in the finders log entry on the caches page. The original coordinates are not updated. The result is that no one knows if a travelling cache moves into your area. Is there anyway the cache finder can get the old coordinates changed to those of the new location, once they have replanted the cache?

[Guest Markwell]

Here's how I did it. I monitor where Scooby and Shaggy go, and update the coordinates as they move - making sure the coordinates are one digit off from the actual cache they're hiding in.

 

I also put a link to the caches they've been to.

 

When they are rehidden in a new cache, I also update the date they were hidden. That way, if they went to San Francisco, they wouldn't show up as an old cache, but as a new one.

 

As a final note, when they are in transit (as they are now on 8/4/01) the coordinates are bogus. That way no one tries to find them...

 

Just some ideas - but they're from the cache owner's perspective. Cache owners (and Jeremy as the DBA) are the only ones who have access to change the cache pages themselves.

 

Finally -

[Guest Snowtrail]

We have one locally that has moved several times. Since it stays in town, it has a good likelyhood of being found again.

 

Octopus Garden

[Guest mrgigabyte]

I think you miss the point. The original idea is to see haw far the cache will travel. It has already moved 600 Km. Lets say it found its way to your area (Charlotte, NC). Geocaching.com will not alert you to a new cache in your area as the coordinates are still of a point 4000 Km away. Thus, no one in your area would ever know there is a new cache, right under you nose. The only ones that would know would be previous finders who would be watching the cache. There has to be a better way!

[Guest arffer]

mechanism to handle traveling caches, Markwell's system works VERY well. I've gone after his cache, and found his system very useful. It directly addresses your question: when a traveling cache enteres your area, the Markwell system will rusult in the cache automatically showing up in your list of area caches. When it leaves, it drops out of your area list.

 

I'm in the process of setting up my first traveling cache, and am shamelessly plagerizing Markwell's system.

[Guest Markwell]

quote:

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Originally posted by arffer:

I'm in the process of setting up my first traveling cache, and am shamelessly plagerizing Markwell's system.

---

 

...which, I must humbly say, shamelessly plagerized this cache. Don't worry - Mtn_man and I have had conversations. Point to make however, is to make sure you update the "Date Hidden" so it not only shows up in your area, it shows up as NEW.

[Guest mrgigabyte]

quote:

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How did Markwell's answer to your question 'miss your point'?

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Markwell's response did not, I was referring to Snowtrail's, as my post immediately followed that reply. Snowtrail suggests a technique that may work as long as the cache stays in your local area. Regarding Markwell's idea, it sounds perfect, except for one small snag. He is the cache owner, not the finder. I have emailed several cache owners in the past about problems I have encountered and in some cases never received a reply. It is with this in mind that this cache may never be found again if the owner does not get my email or they do not know how to edit the cache coordinates.

[Guest arffer]

Ah, gotcha!

 

quote:

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Is there anyway the cache finder can get the old coordinates changed to those of the new location, once they have replanted the cache?

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Markwell and I have been answering this from the perspective of the cache OWNER, not the FINDER. No, there is no way for the finder to update the coordinates.

 

To answer, just as an aside, your comment about unresponsive cache owners, any cache owner setting up a traveling cache under the MarkwellMtn_man system would be expected to be very responsive, as a traveling cache of this type is by design more maintainence intensive.

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 06 August 2001).]

[Guest spiny norman]

WOW! I was just about to launch a traveling cache and had never thought of the implications....I will have to delay the launch date while I make a few changes. Thanks!

[Guest arffer]

The traveling cache I mentioned earlier that I was basing on the Markwell/MtnMan system is now listed. Its Puff & Stinky's Great Race".

 

Within an hour of its first hiding place, the cache was already moved. In fact, if CacheCats drives a red car, we saw it in the parking lot!

 

One addition to the Markwell/MtnMan system we've made is to display the total miles traveled on the cache page.

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 13 August 2001).]

[Guest Markwell]

I've always been meaning to display the total miles on Shaggy and Scooby - but I never seem to remember to put that on. I've kept up the spreadsheet to do the information, just never posted it. Now you've prodded me into doing it.

[Guest mrgigabyte]

If I was to make a traveling cache that was intended to stay in my general metropolitan area, I would think most of the local geocahers would try to find it. Let's suppose cacher A finds it, relocates it and logs the find on the cache page. I change the the posted coordinates and hidden on date. Cacher B finds it in the new location, relocates it and logs the find on the cache page. I update the coordinates etc. Now, if cacher A goes cache hunting and finds it in the new location, if they log the find, do they get credited with a new find? That is, if you find it 10 times, at 10 different locations, does the number of caches you have found next to your username get incremented 10 times?

[Guest arffer]

mrgigabyte,

 

I just tried it, and the answer is yes. You can log more than one find on the same cache, and it will increment your stats.

[Guest Markwell]

r has "Found". If I were cacher A in that scenario, being the staunch and respectable Geocacher that I am, I would log the following:

• Log the original box you found the traveller in (Cache A)
• Log the traveller's page (you did find it - in cache A)
• Since I moved it to another cache (cache I would log that cache, and place an "Other" log on the traveller's page noting the new location

Now someone else moves it from Cache B to Cache C and I find the traveller in Cache C

• I would log cache C as found
• I would NOTE (an "other") on the traveller page - since I've already found it once - where I picked it up and that I was moving it to cache D
• Then log cache D as found

 

Just my 2¢. Others may want to do it differently. So what?

 

[This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 14 August 2001).]

[Guest mrgigabyte]

quote:

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Now someone else moves it from Cache B to Cache C

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Markwell, the scenario you describe applies to moving a traveler or hitchhiker item from an existing cache to another existing cache. What I described is cache finder A picking up the entire cache and moving it. It is still the same cache, just it's location has changed. Therefore the logged find is against the same cache over and over, by all finders, even the same ones! It is only a problem when cache finder A (and previous cache finder of this cache), wants to go looking for it in the new location that cache finder/hider B, has relocated it to. I guess it is a new find, because it is in a new location and potentially has new treasures in it. In that regard, I suppose you should get your "caches found" tally incremented each time you find it.

[Guest arffer]

My 2 cents:

 

In a normal cache, we get a find credit for locating something we have no idea where it is, using only our caching skills. By this reasoning, "finding" a cache we have already been to should be logged as an "other", not as a "find".

 

Now, if there happens to be a traveler inside a cache we "find" for the first time, we get two credits, even though no caching skills were used to find the traveler. Its just the way a traveler works.

 

Based on this reasoning, if we find a traveler again, but inside of a different cache we have never found before, we should get credit for the new cache we found, AND for for finding the traveler AGAIN.

 

Now lets apply my thoughts to mrgigabyte's scenerio: In his case, the entire cache is being moved to a new location, not just a traveler inside it. If someone who previously found this "traveling" cache hunts for it in a new location, then it should qualify as an additional "find" because it is the first time they found it in THAT location; all caching skills were used.

 

If you want to be technical, its not actually the same cache once its moved. A cache by definition is a location with stuff hidden there. Just because the container, contents, and name have remained the same, the location is what this activity is all about.

 

Just my humble thoughts...

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 14 August 2001).]

[Guest CapnGadget]

Have sent a hitchhiker on his way recently and I dont really much care where he goes..I have attached a request to him that simply asks the person moving him to send me an e-mail about where he's going...He's only been in the cache 3 days and a european tourist/geocacher is taking him either to Belgium or Switzerland so I'm pretty happy about that...what a fun sport.

[Guest Cisupete]

Okay, I placed a traveler item in a cache in Indiana. (Run Jeremy, Run !!). The original cache is still in place, and I have been adding Jeremy updates to that site. My question is this: Would it be a bad thing to add a message log to the new cache where the traveler is, saying something about it and encouraging it's movement?

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.asp?ID=5475

 

[This message has been edited by Cisupete (edited 24 August 2001).]

[Guest Markwell]

I'd suggest doing whatever you can, within reason. Shaggy and Scooby have sat in the APE Mission 12 Cache since mid-August without moving, having been passed up by several people visiting the cache

 

I just would like them to MOVE! Maybe they'll start moving as caching picks up after Labor Day.

[Guest arffer]

Mrs.arffer here. I suggested to Mr.arffer we become 'traveling cachers'. We will plant ourselves at a cache, wait for someone to take us home and then replant us at another cache. Maybe we could make it around the world that way! Anyone have frequent flyer miles to spare to get us across the ocean with them?

[Guest mrgigabyte]

After some very helpful ideas posted in this thread from Markwell and arffer, and a couple of weeks of planning, I have my traveling cache, Vancouver Transit, finally on the road. It seems to be a success as it was found and moved 3 times within a day. My question now is the instructions I have provided on the page. I would appreciate any comments anyone has with regard to those instructions. Are they clear enough, to verbose, etc. etc.?

[Guest Markwell]

here is a greater chance of disappointment, since the cache itself may not be in the same location from the time that the searcher leaves his door to when he gets to the coordinates. With hitchhikers, the cache will be there, but the item will not.

 

To show how we accomodated this problem, take a look at Moving Target.

 

We instituted a "Squatter's Rule". Before Wizmedic jumps all over me saying that this is what he proposed, I don't like squatter's rules (time frames being posted when a person will search for it) for Geocaching Hitchhiker's, like Shaggy and Scooby and Puff - those are first come, first serve. But if the entire cache is moving, as in RUN JEREMY, RUN and Moving Target, I think notification and "reserving your tee time" are necessary elements.

 

Instructions otherwise are clear and good job with the table. I may have to copy that...

[Guest arffer]

I'm still struggling with the difference between a Traveling Cache and a Hitchhiker.

 

I've looked for good explainations, but have not found any.

 

See if I'm getting close:

Traveling Cache - This is a standalone container like any other typical cache, but the conatiner moves around. Moving Target cache is an example.

 

Hitchhiker - This is an item, like my Puff and Markwell's Scooby, that moves from existing cache to existing cache, and is never found by itself, typically not having its own container.

 

If I've got it right finally, then I've been wrong in calling my Puff cache a traveling cache. Rather it is a hitchhiker.

 

Or am I still all wet? Thanks!

[Guest arffer]

Never mind, I just realized that I'm still confused. I went back and re-read Markwell's Scooby cache, and it clearly says that Scooby is a traveling cache, so it can't be a hitchhiker.

 

So I'm really lost because I know Scooby isn't a standalone cache that moves, I know its hidden inside other caches, like the APE cache it in now. So my Puff must be a traveling cache like I first thought it was.

 

But then I don't understand how the whole cache could be missing if someone just took Scooby or Puff, wouldn't just that item be missing becasue someone was moving it to another cache?

 

I'm also confused when a couple of posts up Scooby and Puff are referred to as Hitchhikers... I've got to go soak my head for a bit...

 

I never realized this would be so hard to understand!!!

[Guest Markwell]

If I actually used the nomenclature that I spout here in the forums, I'd be a whole lot more clear. Shaggy and Scooby are hitchhikers like Puff (I've just updated the page). Moving Target is a Travelling Cache.

 

You're correct Arffer, and I'm an idiot.

 

Along those lines, my stance is still:

Travelling Caches: state that you intend to look for it, so no one else moves it.

Hitch-hikers: first come, first served.

 

[This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 06 September 2001).]

[Guest Markwell]

If I actually used the nomenclature that I spout here in the forums, I'd be a whole lot more clear. Shaggy and Scooby are hitchhikers like Puff (I've just updated the page). Moving Target is a Travelling Cache.

 

You're correct Arffer, and I'm an idiot.

 

Along those lines, my stance is still:

Travelling Caches: state that you intend to look for it, so no one else moves it.

Hitch-hikers: first come, first served.

 

[This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 06 September 2001).]

[Guest Markwell]

BTW - Mars Rover is a hitch-hiker, too. If you notice, I copied his text almost word for word.

[Guest arffer]

Big sigh of relief

 

Thanks Markwell, as always you've been a real help in my education. And please don't sweat the slight confusion, you're definatly not an idiot.

 

I've likewise updated Puff's page to reflect Stinky and Puff as being hitchhikers. This wouldn't be half as much fun if we knew everything up front, half the fun is the learning process.

 

Hopefully we can agree to disagree on our stance regarding posting. I still think it is a nice gesture when going after a hitchhiker to post your intent on the hitchhikers page, if they have one like Scooby and Puff have. Its still the hunters' choice to go after the hitchhiker anyway and take their chances, or wait and see. It just gives some forwarning to a hunter that someone else is trying at the same time.

 

For example, when we made the ill-fated trip to the Chicago Loop to get Scooby and Shaggy, they were the only reason we went to such lengths. No ill intent towards the Wolf Point cache, it just didn't interest us enough to go so far on its own merits. If we had seen that someone else was going to pursue Scooby & Shaggy that weekend (not that it mattered as they had drowned), we would have satyed home and waited to see if they were successful.

 

But after returning from the hunt for a hitchhiker, successful or not, I'd remove the log regarding my intent to try and get the hitchhiker so as not to clutter the log.

 

BTW, I had missed your earlier suggestion to change the hidden date when a hitchhiker moves so it shows up as new cache. I've now done this.

 

Thanks again!

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 06 September 2001).]

[Guest arffer]

quote:

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Originally posted by Markwell:

BTW - Mars Rover is a hitch-hiker, too. If you notice, I copied his text almost word for word.

---

 

So, considering that Rover calls itself a Traveling cache, when it is really a hitchhiking cache, does this mean that there is not universal understanding on the terms, and that we need to start a groundswell effort to standardize them, or is Rover just confused like I was?

[Guest mrgigabyte]

"1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:

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Traveling Cache - ... the conatiner moves around.

Hitchhiker - ... an item that moves from existing cache to existing cache

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This is a perfect description of these two varieties. I second the motion to finalize these distinctions. Now, what are the chances of getting 2 new cache types listed on the hide a cache page. Of course, 2 new cache type icons would be a nice addition as well.

[Guest Markwell]

quote:

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does this mean that there is not universal understanding on the terms, and that we need to start a groundswell effort to standardize them, or is Rover just confused like I was?

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This is by no means a standard. I think we're cutting new ground in this particular forum. Hitchhiker has been used before, but Traveling Cache has been loosely used to describe both a Traveler and a hitch-hiker. I am proposing that we break new ground with hard definitions. Rover wasn't confused, as in no place was this documented. Until now.

 

quote:

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Now, what are the chances of getting 2 new cache types listed on the hide a cache page. Of course, 2 new cache type icons would be a nice addition as well.

---

 

Hmm. An animated GIF is in need for both. I'll work on them and post the results hopefully before the end of the weekend (fun for me). Maybe Jeremy will take heart and read up on this forum and add in the options. These are becoming more and more frequent as a subset - almost as much as virtual caches.

[Guest arffer]

As we've discussed on other threads, there are many ways to manage both a traveling cache and a hitchhiker. Jeremy has mentioned that development to make this easier is in progress. I personally use the Markwell/Mtn_Man system, and it works great.

 

SO... Jeremy, if you are listening, all we are asking for to be quickly added is two new cache types:

 

Traveling caches where a standalone cache container get's up and moves, and it is recommended to post a log note to reserve time to go get it.

 

Hitchhiking caches where the hitchhiker uses existing caches to move between.

 

That's all we're asking for, two new cache types complete with name, description, and the animated icom Markwell will work on.

 

No extra coding to change the actual cache detail pages right now.

 

Thanks!

 

[This message has been edited by arffer (edited 06 September 2001).]

[Guest Markwell]

Here we go!

 

The large versions are 95x123 pixels, 9 frame lopping animated GIF files. Small ones are 28x36 pixels, 9 frame lopping animated GIF files. The large ones approximate the size of the icons on Jeremy's explanation page, the small ones approximate the size of the ones on the individual cache page and the results of the searches.

 

They're pretty simple, I know, but I wanted to keep it as simple as possible! Anyone able to do any better?

 

Large Hitchiker

 

Small Hitchhiker

 

Large Traveling Cache

 

Small Traveling Cache

 

[This message has been edited by Markwell (edited 06 September 2001).]

[Guest arffer]

Boy, those really get the point across graphically! Nice job, hope Jeremy likes them!

[Guest Markwell]

Glad you liked them. Anyone else want to comment? I almost think they're too busy, but the shareware animated GIF creator that I quickly downloaded last night only had room for 11 frames. I may try my had at some other ones that move a little slower - or if someone else beats me to it, great!

[zapped]

Reading old posts today & noticed Markwell's links are broken. Here are the corrected ones I found for anyone who's interested: